any parents out there dealing with CF adult children that have given up

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twentythreeyearsandcounting

Guest
I have a 23 year old son with CF. He has been in pain most of his life from digestive problems with CF. Last year he had to drop out of college due to losing more of his colon. He has completely given up and has turned to alcohol. I really don't know where to turn. I don't know if any other parents have had to deal with this with an adult who is already terminally ill and trying to kill themselves with alcohol. He does not want help. His liver enzymes are very high and has been told he has liver disease. I am trying to be supportive but not enabling. Any suggestions. I am completely new to this forum and looking for any advice I can get.
 

saveferris2009

New member
So sorry to hear this.

Do you support him with money/food/shelter? As a parent with an adult child, you are not obligated to provide these things for him - and if he chooses to not live by your rules (aka not drinking alcohol, or maybe not going to doc appts, etc), you shouldn't be providing these things for him.

How is he getting $ for alcohol?

I understand this sounds like very tough love, but you are enabling him if you are providing him with shelter/food - he should be using his money to pay for those and not alcohol.

Take care.
 

kturner

New member
my son is 31. he has not given up and his challenges are not as great as your sons. but the common thread is more support is needed for the adult CF community. my son is in the hospital now recovering from lung angiogram to stop bleeding after he had been coughing blood for almost a week and didn't tell anyone. I think they get very tired of this lifestyle of always taking meds, always dealing with some health issue, coughing, using a machine..things we cannot begin to understand. Not enough is know about life for the Adult CF patient- to live it and how we should help them live it. So...what do we do?
 

AUG19DW

New member
My son is 21 and he had Chronic Pancreatitis since he was 12 and we found out he had CF when he was 15 due to the Chronic Pancreatitis. Also had my daughter tested for CF and she tested positive at 11. So he has been down a long and dark road allready but I kept telling him it had to get better but he kept getting worse and worse till he had to drop out of 10th grade due to severe pain 24/7 and on very heavy narcotics. We went to numerous GI's that kept giving up on him and of course CF clinic had no clue what to do with pancreaititis. He was on suicide watch and I had to take him to my cousins for over a year to make sure he didnt do anything stupid while I was working. This was killing me watching him like this. I finally found a surgeon in Minnesota on my own to remove his pancreas, spleen, apendix and gallbladder and do a Islet Cell Transplant. So at 17 he had that surgery. At that time he was on a Dilaudid pain pump. This kids life was awful!! And excrutiating pain all the time. He had no life. So finally a year after weaning off all the narcotics he was pain free!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He got back to a normal life and moved out and has a job and is engaged. But now the last yr. or so he has been having alot of problems and they are talking about removing part of his colon. All I keep telling him is it could always be worse and it can he has been there and done that. This now is nothing compared to where he was. Even though the dr.'s cant figure out again what to do with him which is the hardest part to go thru. I hate watching him go thru all this but he does not want me involved in his med. issues anymore or pushing him to go to a different dr. I think he is tired too and I am scared he might give up one day too. But he is a fighter and a really strong kid. Now of course he is an addict from before and always will be due to the dr.s not knowing what to do with him but give him pain meds. So he has to be really careful which unfortunately he is not because he is taking Tramadol for the pain now and he has taken a few of our pain pills at the house and I confronted him about it. He needs to taking the stuff all together but he thinks he has it under control. I am just here if he gets worse cause the more I fuss or butt in the more he hates me. So I told him when he wants the help and needs it let me know and I will help him but until then it is like we cant do anything but watch them hurt themselves. Sorry I couldnt be of anymore help but it is very hard trying to make them when they are an adult. Was kind of hard as a teenager but very hard now. So I feel your pain!!
 
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gwo8385

Guest
I am so sorry hear of this difficult situation. I know this happens sometimes. I just heard of someone recently who
took a similar path. As a parent, it can be so difficult to watch your child make choices that are not in their best interest,
especially when you've fought for their health and happiness their entire lives! For me the early twenties with my son were awkward, because my he was an adult, he knew what to do and how to do it, but I still wanted to help where and when I could. The transition of care can be a strange time, even without the added stress of the other things. I don't have any helpful answers, but I wish you and your son the very best. Please feel free to message me if you like.

kturner - We have entered a different stage haven't we? Grown CF children... so grateful! I believe, from observation, that you are right, we can't begin to understand, even though we've been right there with them all the way. My son had a difficult few days this past week, not sick, just three hard days in row. When he hit the end of that last day, I told him, you made it through on shear will power, he gave a faint grin and a nod. He was wiped out and I realized that nobody, not even me, knows what it took for him to push through when all his reserves were gone and it took everything he had just to make it through the day. I hope your son is soon well enough to go home!
 

Printer

Active member
This site is populated, in a large part, with adults with CF. I was dx at age 47 (I'm 72 now). By then I had 2/3 of my stomach removed, I had more than 70 hospitalizations as a result of pancreatitis. My gall bladder was removed. It took me 12 years to finish a 4 year college degree.

Every adult here has a story to tell. There is nothing easy growing up with CF. I do know that it is harder growing up with CF when you don't know what it is. Your sons have the advantage of CF drugs and treatments.

Digestive pain equals pancreatitis. I have been told that the pain from pancreatitis is second only to childbirth. Unfortunally there are only a handful of qualified Gastro/CF Specialists in this country. Your sons need to see one. If you want to support your sons, Google Steven D. Freedman, MD, PhD, and get your sons together with him. Trust us when we tell you, not all CF Doctors can help you.

Others, like LittleLab, will follow my post and perhaps tell their stories. We all made it through and your sons can too.

Bill
 

jamoncita

New member
He needs to engage in some kind of normal activity. Having to drop out of school sucks and takes away one more normal thing in our lives. He needs friends and something to distract him from the pain. And he also needs a good way to fully vent how he feels.
Unfortunately, if he is in pain I think it will be hard for him to focus on things. If you can find a good doctor who can help him that would be the number one obstacle to overcome.
 

LittleLab4CF

Super Moderator
I opened and read your post even though I represent nothing you were asking for. When I was finished reading through the other posts on other topics I came back to this and read all the posts. Bear with me, I am heade somewhere specific with this. Thanks to CF I recieved a pre-natal vasectomy, so I do not have children per se. But I finally got around to reading the great posts from some very spectacular people. Printer has me pegged. Years of school demonstrated the hard math was answering the story problems, or elswhere an essay question. I have learned the most from people's stories, and I am a sucker for a good one. I have a lifetime of stories having taken life in like my mouth over a fire hose. It is also an examined life. Saveferris2009 echoed your eschewing enablement. This a damned hard one, something I failed at time after time.

I have what has finally crept into CF vernacular; pancreatic cystic fibrosis. I was given a pancreatic function test by Dr. Steven Freedman, a familiar name and deserving of more than could be written. Any CFer with GI/Pancreatic symptoms especially CF related needs to see him. The (then) idiopathic pancreatitis was severe and at his suggestion had a sweat test. I am now 62, and having re-read some of his correspondence, I was diagnosed in summer 2001 when I was 51. I am near end stage pancreopathy and in outrageous pain without my narcotic analgesics. I have had a dozen kidney stones of note and I didn't think it possible to be in such pain and remain conscious. I periodically had what I now know were pancreatic and gall bladder attacks from birth I amagine, but always the Doctor would treat the pain and shake his head. I am fairly sure my father also had CF, by the age of 10 he and I were on proportional doses of the 1960 version of treatment. I attribute this in part to CF but I redefined ADHD and though my first few year heport cards, Like Sally all D-'s. The hyperactivity part was standard but on a different scale but the attention deficit was more selective attention with photographic recall until my late 20's when I had masked the hyperactivity and my attentions had broadened, were less memorable and more normal.

I made a post yesterday under the topic "New Member" where maybe from reading your post first, I dipped my pen into the ink of ending one's life. Please read it, I see no value repeating it here. Just to set the stage, I channeled my energy and a gift my parents gave me, into learning. Shortly after I graduated high school, I received my doctorate in genetics. I attended university more for the social interaction although I was pursuing an engineering degree. My doctorate was not known outside of the faculty.

Anyway, my girlfriend was the pre-eminent poster child for the social sciences, contrasting me as the empiricist of the hard sciences. In 1968, intellectual debates were about euthanasia and eugenics, etc. Jane and I were sitting in the student union, discussing navel lint. What started off as my personal sophistry against euthanasia, I was spewing as she sat quetly analyzing my every word. Jane was a good public speaker but hives always betrayed her real fright. She would wear high collar blouses because they would creep up her neck and if it went on long enough, her face was red as a beet. Something I said had hit a button and as she sat, ignoring red bumps that ultimately fit with the rage that beset me when I finally shut up. Her father had died from MS when she was an adolescent. Not the lucky MS, but the worst possible. Her father, an insurance salesman, had quickly gone through the family nest egg just finding out why his foot was dropping when he walked. It wasn't long before the family drove across the state to a VA hospital to remove that foot. Then the leg below the knee. He died on the operating table during the fifth amputation.

She told me in no uncertain terms that I had no idea what I was talking about, and proceded to tell me autobiographically, the story from an errant foot through two medical scams and vacations spent walking the grounds of the mostly nursing home VA Hospital. She admitted to seriously considering the most gentle way to kill her father.

I asked if her father ever gave up, and the hard answer was yes. He had set in the living room day and night with a leg festering with gas gangrene when her mother arranged his final surgery. She felt that even if life ends blinking to nothing, it was preferable to his suffering. I asked to explain just what suffering she had seen. She told me, and to my continued astonishment, she saw his self esteem as the family breadwinner, remember this was maybe 1958 on, father, husband, all that defined him had been most cruelly taken while his loving family could do little more than keeep the flys away. I think that sort of sums up how your 23 year old feels as well as you and others who love him.

My sister was seven years younger than me. I was 20 when my father died from malnutrition, leaving me with my mother, 13 year old sister and older brother who was busy building his own nest, thank you. A reunited friend recently described my sister as being like Nellie from Little House on the Prairie. Missy was an incorrigible brat, which was costly in our diciplined house. Missy was in the throws of mental illness, for sure an inherritable disease. She was severely bipolar I or as a professor of psychaiatry who has severe bipolar I, prefers, severe maic depressive disorder. It was a disease that suffered the whole family, just as CF does. My wife and I propped her and her children up for her entire life. I was my sisters keeper. Few ilnesses are as costly in terms of everything. Sadly, very sadly, her disease was degenerative and she died at 52, leaving us with her ten year old daughter. It was a medical overdose.

The best advice has already been given. I can only relate to his life of physical pain. Ok, I understand quite a bit about giving up, or in my case not giving up. If life is not worth living, make it worth living. When I was finally diagnosed, my doctors stopped handing pain medications out with tweezers, counselled me on my accepting narcotic addiction as a fact of life, and on went the patches and the pain was gone, more or less. I believe firmly that severe chronic pain should be treated adequately. At this point, there is nothing to lose and maybe the beginning of a return to the living, not joining the dying. Pain is a jealous mistress and if you let her, she will rob you until nothing is left. A visit to Dr. Freedman is in order, he is a leading pancreatic/GI specialist if not the best. And certainly he is peerless with CF pancreatic patients. Dr. Freedman is a healer foremost and just to be in his consult, you feel better if for no other reason than he knows and validates you as a whole person. Dr. Freedman knows the importance of attitude is toward how well or sick you are. Considering the hole your son is in, it is patently obvious he is severely depressed. A pancreatic specialist can only do so much. If you are the right person to do this, fine, if not find the right person to explain that despite how discouraged he is, his life has value for himself and certainly to those who love him and it is time to see a specialist about his depression. Treating this first may not be the answer. But mixed in here are the actionable steps to raise him back to understanding, things can be done to make you better in the form of proactive pain management, revisiting his health issues with Dr. Freedman or the like. Printer may know the other dozen or so doctors skilled to constructively readdress what can be done to improve his quality of life. And still the issue of depression has to be properly addressed. Maybe he should join this forum. Nobody can feel his pain, or so he thinks. Thirteen thousand six hundred eighty two patients with CF or family and friends of those with CF are hanging in the wings and somebody, likely a chorus of people who have been in his dark spot.

That debate on euthanasia Jane and I started to have, continued with some added ground rules. I have lived my life exactly as I promoted my arguement. The better part of my 62 years has dealt with intractable, and by decision, untreatable pain. This gets boring fast. I have gone to lengths to keep driven to distraction from my pain. The advice for him to get of his butt and do something with his life is perfect. How did you keep your son from crying as a baby, distraction was a big tool in the bag. Can he take online classes? If he can do any work at all, put him behind a soup line, in other words introduce him to the world of volunteerism. My wife and I were worker bee founders of a "Social Club for Chronic Mentally Ill Adults" for 25 years. I could have contributed more, but I had two tasks, driving and socializing, or as we were taught to provide normallizing activity and stimulous for our members. It is humbling and gratifying to pick up a station wagon load of adult schizophrenics and chat about whatever as we motor to the church.

I now have Parkinson's added to my troubles, in fact within weeks of my diagnosis of CF I was diagnosed with Parkinson's. Judging from the systematic removal of your son's colon, I guess he has developed megacolon or some other paralytic bowel issue. Constipation is about as funny as gout. The difference is constipation can kill a person just as dead as a heart attack will. Dr. Freedman and his team, whether by accident or design have become the North American leading specialist and what he can't do himself, others equally talented are right there. Parkinson's disease wrecks havoc on the bowels and so does the medicine to treat it. CF is more or less ditto when it comes to the bowels, for that matter everything from the lips down is affected by CF to one degree or another.

Finally I would send your son on a scavenger hunt. The real reason pharmaceuticals have jumped faster than gasoline in price is they all are or have re-tooled for genetically based drugs. For the first time in history, a medical frontier has broken trail. A major trail is one of the first gentic diseases located, decoded and biochemically understood. We have more than one working genetically based drugs that in a limited few resolves their symptoms to some degree. This newly blazed trail is being followed up with a super highway. We are at the cataract, the top of the watershed. Your son has a greater chance of living a full life than ever before. There is somebody looking for your son in a promising drug trial. Send him to find it.

My heart goes out to you and it is breaking mine as I contemplate his depth of pain, and your spirit at bay. If you are still into it, take a look at this current forum, it is either the last post or near to it under "New Member" There is more food for thought.
 

LittleLab4CF

Super Moderator
I did it again. Cystic Fibrosis was one of the first human genetic diseases to be located, decoded etc. The breakthroughs, like kalydeco, limited as it is, has all the right components that just need to be dialed in. The rate of discovery from this point on is that looming super highway behind seminal discoveries and technical developments. My sister gave up and knowingly or not, took her life. My father woke up one day and realized, it was nearly over for him. He never gave up, his body gave out. Damnit life has got to be worse than this to just give it up so caviler. There may come a time when his quality of life is not worth continuing with, but not at 23. He has lost a little of his gut, ok, most of his bowels, but colitis has put tens of thousands of people working, living, you know, semi-normal. In the short term, he needs to get to a doctor anyway. There could easily and probably an organic contributor to his mind set. This is getting to be like a broken record on my other posts, but even as young as 23 he could be burned out from pain. His testosterone levels need to be looked at. A young man short on testosterone is a little like the emotional anvil that falls from hysterectomies, menopause etc. for women.

Let me think, 23, where was I, where were you? At 23 I was wandering my way across North Africa, starting in Morocco, I began in the Spanish port of Ceuta, avoiding Tangers, out to the West Coast to watch Larasche washing out to sea with the hurricane that I didn't know about. Yeah I held my own, sunbathing on the roof of Hotel de France in Marrakesh, sick to death with cholera. Man nothing used to get me mad faster than somebody telling you a great vacation story when you just took out another mortgage to cover payroll, or are desperately looking for anything that would help you save your beautiful son. If all else fails, piss him off good.
 
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twentythreeyearsandcounting

Guest
Thank you to everyone who responded to my post. No I do not support him with money but I do take him to his doctors appointments at his doctors requests. He does not go unless I take him. He is also diabetic which makes the drinking even more dangerous and rarely if ever checks his bloods sugar or takes his insulin. The tough love I have incorporated is telling him he cannot be drunk anymore when he comes to my houseand I will not take him to the doctor if it is obvious he has been drinking or has not bathed. The hard truth is , it is obvious he has been on a binge when he hasn't bathed in days. It has been harder for me to be tough on him because he is sick but even the doctors tell me I have to be. That said, I agree I need to stop enabling him more. Which is my reason for being on here but I do not want to alienate him either. He has severe depression and anxiety as well. This is a very troubled person. The first thing I am going to do is look up the physician suggested to me by two of the people that responded to me. Thank you so much for that. The doctors here are kind but also do not know what to do with him. He was born missing part of his bowel and things went down hill from there with his digestive tract. And yes, he has chronic pancreatitis as well along with the liver disease. I was recently told he is not dying from cystic fibrosis any time soon but if he does not stop drinking he has only 2 years becasue of the liver disease. He has accelerated this due to people with CF having liver disease anyway. He admits this was intenional. It is heartbreaking. But if he had some hope perhaps he would feel differently. He has never had hope. In a way I cannot blame him. He has known nothing but pain and empty promises from doctors who have tried but have not been able to help him. If 2 of you have been helped by this doctor then maybe there is help for my son. Thank you so very much for the information and taking the time to respond.
 

LittleLab4CF

Super Moderator
My wife suggested you consider a support group. I would add that you might book some visits with a psychologist for yourself. You have fought the good fight and maybe a mental tune up will help you gird for the battle ahead. You have eschewed enabling your adult son. But depression is a disease itself and generally requires a hand up out of that hole. He needs counselling himself, but possibly ok probably talking him into this first may not be the most practical sequence. He needs four things. His medical issues via Dr. Freedman, his depression, and he needs good proactive pain management and finally something to live for, something to restore self worth. Maybe he can take courses online? If he can get to a liquor store and get home an get drunk, he can stand serving in a food line. Or he can prepare and deliver meals on wheels. Maybe he can get his land legs stronger through volunteerism.

At 23, his life is not written. I have made contributions that literally has made the world safer for mankind. I have made seminal contributions to technical advancements in everything from cell phones to medicine that will continue long after I am gone. Why can't this be your beautiful son's future?
 

scarecrow

New member
I was your son, except for the fact that I grew up healthy enough to pass for a skinny guy with a smokers cough. When I was 7 I heard the doctor tell my parents that I would never live to be a teenager. Well I did live that long and another 45 and still going. There are things I could say that would not help you at all. Just let it be said that I grew up basically in the 70's and there were very few things that I didn't do and many that I overdid. My motto was Live Fast and Die Young. Believe me I tried my hardest because I was determined not to die"gasping for air like a fish out of water". I also was determined to comit suicide before that happened.

The only thing that changed my life was the love of and love for a good woman. We have been married for 26 years and I have to admit that if it weren't for her and the responsibility that I have to her I probably would have comitted suicide long ago.

If you can find something that will give your son a reason to live before it is too late then he may have a chance. The problem is that the damage we do to ourselves if often hard or impossible to reverse, I can attest to that.

I hope that he will find a reason to live before it is too late. If there is anything I can do to help please feel free to contact me -Dale
 

chroma7

New member
My son is 20. He is depressed. He failed out of college in the winter. He seems completely un-motivated at this point. We tried a drug study and it didn't seem to help. No drugs or alcohol problems. Apathetic towards school, his doctors and life in general to a point. You are not alone. Most of the boards (or any BB's) are filled with people who generally care about their health. Or they wouldn't be here. I have tried many times to get him involved here but he will not. For this reason you don't usually hear from the the depressed. Seems to me most CF centers are still not prepared for this. It is a deep rooted problem and I bet it affects at least half of the patients.
 

kknudsen

New member
I have 3 daughters with CF and during long times of hospitalization and crying times of why me the thing that brings them the most hope is their great value as daughters of God. A knowledge of His plan of salvation and the purpose of life allows them to remember there is so much more to this life than just their health. Just reading the posts brings tears to my eyes. I know I have no idea what it must feel like to be grasping for air and fighting so hard to live, but Christ has suffered all we can go through and knows very well how they feel. Turn to Him and feel His ever loving concern for them personally. Also visit <a href="http://www.lds.org/">www.lds.org</a> I have found many videos and stories that help my daughters through their tough times that I have no idea how to relate to.
 

toria

New member
Don't be nice about it. Tell him what this is doing to you. He loves you probably more than he loves himself right now.
 

kmaried

New member
Hi.

I'm 30 with CF. I feel for your son so much. Quick question first - why did losing more of his colon cause him to have to drop out of school? Was it pain? Or just gastro-intestinal issues?

I have a unique perspective on this because I have CF, and have recently been dealing with my cousin who is an alcoholic. I think the most important thing is for your son to realize that other people care about him. It may not be as effective for you to express this because you are a parent. Is there anyone else (non-judgemental) that can be there for him, and try to talk to him? A friend, a cousin, anything? Not even to interrogate him - just to stop by, spend some time with him, talk to him, maybe take him out for a sober activity.

Obviously end game is that your son needs to talk honestly and openly with medical professionals - both his CF Docs as well as probably a therapist. But I do think he needs to realize he's worth it first, and knowing people care about him and his well-being might help him get there.

Kris
 
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rheamc

Guest
I have only been diagnosed with CF for 2 years and have had many episodes of pancreatitis and have also had 2 children. I would rather go through childbirth 10 more times than have pancreatitis. The pain IS horrible. I do not have to take pain meds on a regular basis, but do understand if people need to.At times I just have pain and deal with it. I too saw Dr Feedman and he is wonderful. He validated that what I had was real. The first medical professional that understood exactly what I was going through. So, I would recommend him as well. I would also however recommend that you try Al Anon for yourself. It saved my life years ago. I had an alcoholic in my life and Al Anon taught me to be my own person and be happy regardless of what the other person did. I have carried it through my life and I really feel that experience has helped me to be a more positive person. Just a thought , it worked for me. Good luck!
 

strike3

New member
Hello I am 37 year old man with Cf. Its obvious we people with cf are living longer. With that longer lifespan we are discovering a whole new set of complications in dealing with cf. Cf is truly like a bully: you would like someone to see what you are going through but at some point in time you simply have to deal with it, like a bully you rarely see it happening, what I mean by this its not something most people can discern from your average skinny person or someone who has a cold. I am not trying to make light of some cf'ers situation, as some obviously have it worse than others. Not being able to have children has been my biggest struggle. My thoughts go out there to any man with cf that wants to start a relationship knowing you most likely face this roadblock will often narrow your choices for a potential girlfriend and future wife. I bring these things up because there is a lot on the plate of a person with cf. At the same time I cannot possibly imagine what my mother went through when I had my first 2 week stay in the hospital when I was 32. Its very hard to imagine how cf is affecting your son, what I mean is everyone has a story which effects them in its own unique way. Life presents its own unique challenges for everyone who chooses to live it, some handle those challenges with what appears to be more grace or maybe its indifference, its hard to say. Although I have never wanted to give up, I can appreciate what your son is going through, your road as a parent is not easily traversed either. I do not write or respond on here all that often, simply because I dont always want to be reminded of having cf(carrying around pills every where I go and salting everything and hearing how bad it is for me from people who do not know better is reminder enough, among the other things too). Maybe let your son know writting to other cf'ers maybe the cathartic release he needs. Not to be crass but it may make him feel better to read some stories about other cf'ers that have it worse than him. I know when your in the depths of your own despair there seems to be nothing worse than your own misery, but I do find it helps sometimes to come on here and read the stories of others. To all you other cf'ers out there keep doing it. To you parents out there, there is nothing I can say to capture what you go through. I like to equate living with Cf to the movie Rocky; Rocky new he could not beat Apollo, he simply wanted to go the distance with Creed, he wanted to be standing when the bell rang. Some of us have been able to find their inspiration easier than than others. Hopefully your son will find his inspiration soon, so he will pick himself-up and get back in the fight. I wanted to give just a little understanding and release a little. Thanks for listening.

Friend and fellow Cf'er
Scott
 

LisaGreene

New member
I am so sorry that you are going through this. This is, unfortunately, a common problem in the world of chronic illness.
What makes one person resilient and another give up- given similar circumstances- has been the subject of study and debate since time began. Some of it is genetic. There is evidence that "optimism" has a genetic basis. However, despite that, there is also evidence that resilience can be learned.
Here is an excellent paper (warning, it's long) on resilience in children and adults. Take the time to review the last sections that discuss how to help people become more resilient. http://www.melissainstitute.org/documents/resilienceinchildren.pdf

Also, here is a link to an article that Dr. Cline (a psychiatrist) wrote to a mom of a young adult with diabetes facing similar issues. http://pcwhi.blogspot.com/2011/10/once-parent-always-parent-when-adult.html

Hang in there.
 
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