Bacterial crowding?

Incomudrox

New member
So let's say hypotherically... you have MSSA and PA. Your MSSA is the one that usally acts up. If you hypotherically could kill it off is it worth the risk that your PA might then spiral out of control? MSSA is typically the dominant bacteria and might be suppressing my PA. Discuss.
 

Incomudrox

New member
So let's say hypotherically... you have MSSA and PA. Your MSSA is the one that usally acts up. If you hypotherically could kill it off is it worth the risk that your PA might then spiral out of control? MSSA is typically the dominant bacteria and might be suppressing my PA. Discuss.
 
M

moxie1

Guest
That's a hard one. I have cepacia and my doctor has said that in my case in might be a good thing as it might protect me from other bad bugs. (I know cepacia is a bad bug for some, but it hasn't been in my case)
Have they tested your PA recently? I.E. is it susceptible to antibiotics. Is it mucoid or non-mucoid.
I'm not a doctor, so I can't really give good advice, but I would think that as long as you know that antibiotics will work against your PA, it would be good to get rid of the other one.
 
M

moxie1

Guest
That's a hard one. I have cepacia and my doctor has said that in my case in might be a good thing as it might protect me from other bad bugs. (I know cepacia is a bad bug for some, but it hasn't been in my case)
Have they tested your PA recently? I.E. is it susceptible to antibiotics. Is it mucoid or non-mucoid.
I'm not a doctor, so I can't really give good advice, but I would think that as long as you know that antibiotics will work against your PA, it would be good to get rid of the other one.
 
Yeah, it is difficult to say. I have been told that treating mycobacterium might just allow pseudomonas to grow rampant etc... Sometimes I feel that antibiotics dont do all that much because it's generates a cycle of kill this, then kill that, then back to this first one again. Like all things, even CF lungs need to have balance.
 
Yeah, it is difficult to say. I have been told that treating mycobacterium might just allow pseudomonas to grow rampant etc... Sometimes I feel that antibiotics dont do all that much because it's generates a cycle of kill this, then kill that, then back to this first one again. Like all things, even CF lungs need to have balance.
 

Melissa75

Administrator
I think Becki's idea of checking your PA's susceptibility is a good idea. On a side note, one study I read noted that stenotrophomonas might confer resistance to PA, and that makes me wonder about all the nuances of these bacterial interactions. Maybe MRSA is bolstering your PA.
Seeing an infectious disease specialist might be a good idea. But I like discussion too. :)

When I cultured stenotrophomonas a month ago, along with strep, which I believe is what actually made me feel sick, I did a lot of reading. I wanted to know why/how with my relatively low antibiotic use and numerically not-advanced lung disease could I be culturing a bacteria associated with more advanced disease.

When I was last hospitalized, I had some of the antibiotics listed as encouraging steno. I'll ask if I can have other ones next time, but I don't know what different bacteria different abs will encourage...so I'm kinda torn/passive on this.

Here is some reading on "selective pressure from antibiotics.".
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/558719_5
Emerging and Unusual Gram-Negative Infections in Cystic Fibrosis
Links to various bacteria on the right.

http://www.cfmedicine.com/htmldocs/CFText/stenotrophomonas.htm
With the widespread use of antibiotics and dramatic improvement in patients survival, newer organisms, such as Stenotrophomonas maltophilia (Denton et al, 1996; Denton et al, 1998; Talmaciu et al, 2000; Krzewinski et al, 2001), Achromobacter xylosoxidans (Dunne & Maisch, 1995; Krzewinski et al, 2001; Tan et al, 2002) and nontuberculous mycobacteria (Tomashefski et al, 1996; Torrens et al, 1998; Olivier et al, 2003) are becoming more widespread. The reasons for their emergence are complex but may relate to the selective pressure exerted by repeated exposure to antibiotic therapy, improved laboratory isolation techniques and enhanced reporting.
 

Melissa75

Administrator
I think Becki's idea of checking your PA's susceptibility is a good idea. On a side note, one study I read noted that stenotrophomonas might confer resistance to PA, and that makes me wonder about all the nuances of these bacterial interactions. Maybe MRSA is bolstering your PA.
Seeing an infectious disease specialist might be a good idea. But I like discussion too. :)

When I cultured stenotrophomonas a month ago, along with strep, which I believe is what actually made me feel sick, I did a lot of reading. I wanted to know why/how with my relatively low antibiotic use and numerically not-advanced lung disease could I be culturing a bacteria associated with more advanced disease.

When I was last hospitalized, I had some of the antibiotics listed as encouraging steno. I'll ask if I can have other ones next time, but I don't know what different bacteria different abs will encourage...so I'm kinda torn/passive on this.

Here is some reading on "selective pressure from antibiotics.".
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/558719_5
Emerging and Unusual Gram-Negative Infections in Cystic Fibrosis
Links to various bacteria on the right.

http://www.cfmedicine.com/htmldocs/CFText/stenotrophomonas.htm
With the widespread use of antibiotics and dramatic improvement in patients survival, newer organisms, such as Stenotrophomonas maltophilia (Denton et al, 1996; Denton et al, 1998; Talmaciu et al, 2000; Krzewinski et al, 2001), Achromobacter xylosoxidans (Dunne & Maisch, 1995; Krzewinski et al, 2001; Tan et al, 2002) and nontuberculous mycobacteria (Tomashefski et al, 1996; Torrens et al, 1998; Olivier et al, 2003) are becoming more widespread. The reasons for their emergence are complex but may relate to the selective pressure exerted by repeated exposure to antibiotic therapy, improved laboratory isolation techniques and enhanced reporting.
 

Melissa75

Administrator
If you google: "Emerging and unusual bacteria [name of bacteria]" you can view the medscape article I linked to.

Otherwise it requires a login. I just realized the links on the right bar of the article are blocked.

These are your choices of words to put in the brackets:
Abstract and Introduction
Why the Propensity for Bacterial Infection?
Burkholderia Cepacia Complex
Therapy
Stenotrophomonas maltophilia
Achromobacter (Alcaligenes) Xylosoxydans
Acinetobacter Baumannii
Pandoraea, Ralstonia, and Other Species
Inquilinus Limosus
Infection Control Measures
Conclusions
 

Melissa75

Administrator
If you google: "Emerging and unusual bacteria [name of bacteria]" you can view the medscape article I linked to.

Otherwise it requires a login. I just realized the links on the right bar of the article are blocked.

These are your choices of words to put in the brackets:
Abstract and Introduction
Why the Propensity for Bacterial Infection?
Burkholderia Cepacia Complex
Therapy
Stenotrophomonas maltophilia
Achromobacter (Alcaligenes) Xylosoxydans
Acinetobacter Baumannii
Pandoraea, Ralstonia, and Other Species
Inquilinus Limosus
Infection Control Measures
Conclusions
 
J

jamest

Guest
I asked my doc about the wisdom of taking Tobi for so long (10ish years? My ears ring). Wouldn't that create resistant bacteria?

His answer, as I understood it, was yes, it does create resistant bacteria. But when the Tobi cycle ends, the non-resistant bacteria are able to outcompete the resistant bugs for real estate. Thus an equilibrium is (hopefully) created.
 
J

jamest

Guest
I asked my doc about the wisdom of taking Tobi for so long (10ish years? My ears ring). Wouldn't that create resistant bacteria?

His answer, as I understood it, was yes, it does create resistant bacteria. But when the Tobi cycle ends, the non-resistant bacteria are able to outcompete the resistant bugs for real estate. Thus an equilibrium is (hopefully) created.
 

Incomudrox

New member
Everyone here has good points. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0"> and Melissa it looks like I have some reading to add to my list. Thanks for the links! As far as my PA is concerned it is sensitive to everything except for Levaquin and always cultures growth amount as "FEW" and sometimes disappears for 1-2 months. My MSSA is only resistant to 4 out of 11 drugs tested against it.

almost forgot my PA is sometimes mucoid and sometimes non-mucoid (the same strand) go figure.... same sensitivties in either case.
 

Incomudrox

New member
Everyone here has good points. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0"> and Melissa it looks like I have some reading to add to my list. Thanks for the links! As far as my PA is concerned it is sensitive to everything except for Levaquin and always cultures growth amount as "FEW" and sometimes disappears for 1-2 months. My MSSA is only resistant to 4 out of 11 drugs tested against it.

almost forgot my PA is sometimes mucoid and sometimes non-mucoid (the same strand) go figure.... same sensitivties in either case.
 

JustDucky

New member
Wow, Incomudrux.....you just described my current plight with bugs. I too have MSSA and PA (along with other gram neg bugs) but usually the staph is what is the most predominant bacteria in my cultures. The funny thing is, whenever I am treated JUST for the staph, the PA and other bugs take hold an grow out of control. It took awhile for me and my docs to realize this. Once I started IV's, I would improve at first...but after day 5 or so, I would be febrile again, feel terrible and my xrays would look much worse. They would reculture me and lo and behold, the staph would be gone but then the really resistant PA and company would be there! The IV's would of course be changed to kill the gram negs. What my docs do now which seems to work is to treat BOTH the staph and PA with each exacerbation even if the staph is the only thing that shows up in the petri dish. So far, these tactic has worked for the last 3 exacerbations and has shorted my IV time by nearly 2 weeks each time.....

Jenn 40 w/CF
 

JustDucky

New member
Wow, Incomudrux.....you just described my current plight with bugs. I too have MSSA and PA (along with other gram neg bugs) but usually the staph is what is the most predominant bacteria in my cultures. The funny thing is, whenever I am treated JUST for the staph, the PA and other bugs take hold an grow out of control. It took awhile for me and my docs to realize this. Once I started IV's, I would improve at first...but after day 5 or so, I would be febrile again, feel terrible and my xrays would look much worse. They would reculture me and lo and behold, the staph would be gone but then the really resistant PA and company would be there! The IV's would of course be changed to kill the gram negs. What my docs do now which seems to work is to treat BOTH the staph and PA with each exacerbation even if the staph is the only thing that shows up in the petri dish. So far, these tactic has worked for the last 3 exacerbations and has shorted my IV time by nearly 2 weeks each time.....

Jenn 40 w/CF
 
This will be no help whatsoever, but in reference to resistant strains of bacteria...my pharm instructor posted this on our health-science page:
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/2012/03/16/antibiotic-resistance-could-bring-end-of-modern-medicine/

It concerns me (it should concern every living person in the world) because CFers, in my case, my daughter which has had MRSA, cancer pts, TB pts, people who are highly reliant on multiple and combination antibiotic therapy are the ones dealing with this resistant crap that COULD be paused (never ceased, but even a pause while something else can be done) if industries would stop dosing up our food, people stop passing Rx med's at home for viruses, HCPs stop scripting toddlers for daycare sniffles (much coming from parents that won't leave their office without a Rx), and general uncleanliness from medical staff and caregivers ceases.
I wonder if medicine will start back with the use of bacteriophages in the future? They have shown much promise and are used in some other countries with 2 day recoup as opposed to two weeks. They were being tested before penicillin was discovered and when it came into use as the "miracle drug" phages were phased out:
http://pharmacy.ouhsc.edu/news/view/?ID=2846
Just thinking/stewing out loud...
 
This will be no help whatsoever, but in reference to resistant strains of bacteria...my pharm instructor posted this on our health-science page:
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/2012/03/16/antibiotic-resistance-could-bring-end-of-modern-medicine/

It concerns me (it should concern every living person in the world) because CFers, in my case, my daughter which has had MRSA, cancer pts, TB pts, people who are highly reliant on multiple and combination antibiotic therapy are the ones dealing with this resistant crap that COULD be paused (never ceased, but even a pause while something else can be done) if industries would stop dosing up our food, people stop passing Rx med's at home for viruses, HCPs stop scripting toddlers for daycare sniffles (much coming from parents that won't leave their office without a Rx), and general uncleanliness from medical staff and caregivers ceases.
I wonder if medicine will start back with the use of bacteriophages in the future? They have shown much promise and are used in some other countries with 2 day recoup as opposed to two weeks. They were being tested before penicillin was discovered and when it came into use as the "miracle drug" phages were phased out:
http://pharmacy.ouhsc.edu/news/view/?ID=2846
Just thinking/stewing out loud...
 
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