Digestive Enzymes

Simba15

Member
I finally went to a ND after the CF clinic at a very well-reknowned hospital was of NO use to me. I told them I was bloated all the time. They said "you are taking too much probiotics." WHAT? I take antibiotics every day and need probiotics. They did no tests and sent me to no specialists. Bottom line, I'm NOT impressed.

I went to the ND who ran 17 tests off the bat. She put me on two enzymes:

XymoZyme by Xymogen (with food)
and
Intenzyme Forte by Biotics Reseach (away from food)

I felt a difference within one hour of the first pill!!! Seriously. Why hasn't any other MD thought of this. Really? :mad:
If you feel like your food is not digesting and is sitting in your gut like a cinder block, I recommend this.
 

Simba15

Member
Thank you for this information. I read an article about protein digestion in CF which made me wonder how enzymes should be taken with a protein rich meal http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0261561413003051? A couple of hours in advance?! Or take something like XymoZyme?

I can't speak about high protein. I'm a vegatarian. I do know that I can't digest carbs. So it has helped me with that. Both of these are supplements you can buy without a prescription. You can even purchase from amazon or another online store.
 
I wrote to the author of the study I mentioned in my previous post, Professor Engelen, asking whether she thinks I should give my son enzymes well before a meal containing lots of protein. Here is her reply:

"Thanks for your interest in our study. Indeed we found a substantial delay in protein digestibility after pancreatic enzyme intake in CF. There are a few ways to circumvent the reduced protein digestibility in CF such as adjusting the type of protein intake into more easily digestible protein (ie whey protein) or hydrolysed protein (ie casein hydrolysates). Milk intake is very important for muscle maintenance and it contains both whey and casein protein. We are not sure if fish proteins are easily digested. Maybe even better would be to buy hydrolyzed casein protein although currently the taste is not that great and it is often not easily to obtain. More research is required whether taking the dose of pancreatic enzymes just before intake of a meal will diminish the delay in protein digestibility sufficiently.


The fact that protein digestibility can be normalized after pancreatic enzyme intake (even after a delay) in the studied CF patients suggests that the amount of protease in the pancreatic enzymes is sufficient. However, the delay suggests that the pancreatic enzyme capsules need to be modified to make the enzymes more quickly available and work faster. As the literature suggests the opposite for fat it indicates that pancreatic enzymes need to contain a range of enzyme activity (both fast and slow acting enzymes). More research is required to find out if and which pancreatic enzyme product with a wide pH range (ie XymoZyme) would work best in CF. Although not studied yet we think that the delay we have observed in this study for protein might also be true for fat in CF."

She also added:

"I sincerely hope that in the near future more attention will be paid in CF care and research to the importance of keeping muscle mass optimal as it is know that muscle loss leads to increased mortality, high readmission rates, lower lung function, bone loss, etc etc etc. Preventing muscle wasting in CF by specific nutritional therapies focusing on increasing protein anabolism is therefore of crucial importance. Currently the emphasis in CF care and research has been mostly on fat intake whereas the importance of optimal protein/amino acid intake has been neglected so far. So much can also be learned from knowledge obtained in other chronic inflammatory wasting diseases like COPD which will also benefit patients with CF but unfortunately the message is still not taken up in the CF world."

I think it was wonderful she replied to my query. I think this is really important information.

If anyone is using a fast acting enzyme product could you please let me know?
 

Epona

New member
Her reply was really fascinating, thank you for sharing it. Protein digestion is a very interesting subject, and I have wondered the same about the sufficiency of CF supplemental pancreatic enzymes in helping with protein digestion. I wonder if the fact that most CF enzyme supplements are enteric coated to only be released when past the stomach and into the small intestine has to do with reduced protein digestion. Most protein digestion happens in the stomach with stomach acid and pepsin. Yet given that most CFers have low stomach acid due to frequent use of antibiotics and maybe even antiacids (which are really horrible by the way), this may further reduce the stomach's effectiveness at digesting proteins. I take supplemental Betaine HCL (hydrochloric acid plus pepsin, a proteolytic enzyme) to help me with protein digestion, and I have to say it works great. However, what is the most effective thing I have implemented for better digestion and reducing bloating is being strict about food combining. For people with weak digestion like us, incorrectly combining certain macronutrients with other macronutrients can lead to a delay in digestion and the feeling of "a brick in the stomach". You can read more about these rules on my website (www.cfnaturalhealth.weebly.com) but the main rules are: eat protein alone or with green vegetables only; eat carbs (fruits, grains, starchy veggies) with fats; never eat proteins with carbs. Pretty simple, and I can tell you this has been SO effective for me. If I'm feeling dangerous and want to eat carbs with protein (like sweet potatoes with a sausage) I can guarantee you that I will feel bloated and nasty and not able to eat for at least 6-8 hours afterward. But if I eat that sausage alone with some Betaine HCL, I am hungry within 1-2 hours and can eat those sweet potatoes, plus some extra fat (maximizing caloric intake). Try out these rules and see if they help you.

Of course, additional enzymes will help too. The kinds of enzymes in our CF supplements are very limited and designed to replace only the enzymes released by the pancreas, so they are released only in the small intestine under specific acidic conditions. The problem is that the entire digestive tract releases enzymes, not just the pancreas, so we may need to have supplements for those too if we're not getting enough of them. I think this is especially true for any enzymes normally released in the stomach. The CF stomach is often abused and may not be releasing enough stomach acid and proteolytic enzymes. So supplementing with Betaine HCL, and definitely staying the hell away from antiacids, may help.

Probiotics will also help in a million different ways, but one is maintaining the correct pressure and acidic gradient to help the stomach do its work.

I just have to mention that we should be careful about whey protein and casein because I hypothesize that almost all CFers are lactose intolerant, and casein allergies and intolerances are very, very common.
 
Thank you for this information! I'll look into Betaine HCL when I next find the time to try to learn about GI matters in CF :)

I know that many people have doubts about dairy, but as far as I know no negative effects have been proven. My son drinks a huge amount of milk and tolerates it well. There is a recent study showing that lactose intolerance is no more common in people with CF compared to normal population. Milk contains so many good things, calcium, protein, minerals, lactoferrin etc. There is even a recent article showing milk contains molecules that inhibit PA:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1756464613002569.
 

Epona

New member
Hi again! Would you mind sending me the link to that study on CF and lactose intolerance? I would love to see it. The issue with dairy is that if you can tolerate it (no lactose intolerance and no casein intolerance) it is great for you. However, many many people cannot tolerate it (particularly non-organic and pasteurized dairy) and have no idea they cannot tolerate it because their GI system is so out of whack that they can't tell what's causing the problems. I was one of those. My mom had me drink a lot of whole milk growing up and I loved it. But it turns out I was probably lactose and casein intolerant the entire time and we had no idea because my GI system was so messed up and inflamed (although I never complained - I thought all of it was completely normal) that I didn't know what a healthy GI system even felt like. Now I do know, and I can feel a BIG difference when I try to eat dairy. Because of my clean diet now, my GI tract has a lot less inflammation, so when things irritate it, like dairy or gluten, I can tell the difference. I would have never thought that I was gluten intolerant or dairy intolerant until I removed them a couple years ago and could feel the difference! Anyway, sorry for the tangent. Just thought I'd share my experiences, for something to contemplate.
 
Hi Epona! This is the article:
[h=2]Mild CFTR mutations and genetic predisposition to lactase persistence in cystic fibrosis[/h]Edyta Mądry[SUP]1[/SUP], Beata Krasińska[SUP]2[/SUP], Sławomira Drzymała-Czyż[SUP]3[/SUP], Dorota Sands[SUP]4[/SUP], Aleksandra Lisowska[SUP]3[/SUP], Philip Grebowiec[SUP]3[/SUP], Alina Minarowska[SUP]5[/SUP], Beata Oralewska[SUP]6[/SUP], Przemyslaw Mańkowski[SUP]7[/SUP], Jerzy Moczko[SUP]8[/SUP] and Jarosław Walkowiak[SUP]3,9
[/SUP]
"In conclusion, CF does not seem to be a risk factor for developing adult-type lactose intolerance. Moreover, patients carrying mild CFTR gene mutations have less frequently genetic predisposition to its occurrence."

http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v19/n7/full/ejhg201136a.html

The same authors have done other studies on lactose tolerance in CF, for example: Lactose malabsorption is a risk factor for decreased bone mineral density in pancreatic insufficient cystic fibrosis patients. I use Google Scholar to find these articles.

I think milk is very beneficial for growing children with CF - it even contains growth hormone. I'm more suspicious of grains because Celiac disease is more common in CF. My son really dislikes bread for example.
 

Epona

New member
Hey MotherofCFBoy11yrs. Thank you for posting that study, it was unexpectedly interesting! It sent me down a wild rabbit hole of research and I discovered some really interesting things to contemplate (see below)! Regarding your last sentence - I hope you are not referring to the artificial bovine growth hormone that they give the cows which gives them mastitis and other diseases, and is also unsafe for human consumption. And I agree, grains are certainly concerning and difficult to digest for everyone, not just those with CF, Celiac, or both.

But first off, after reading through the study carefully I had to conclude that this study was too poorly designed and way too small to make any CF population-wide conclusions about lactose intolerance. I could go into great detail (and will if you're interested), but the main issues with the study are thus: 1) its sample size is very small (only tested 52 CFers for lactose intolerance using the hydrogen breath test). 2) only those CFers who had the genes for lactose intolerance (52 out of 289) were tested for lactose intolerance with the breath test. The other CFers with genes for lactase persistence (a.k.a. lactose tolerance) were not tested. This does not make sense since there are many other ways to become lactose intolerant other than genetics (and the study admitted this - they call it "secondary hypolactasia" and encouraged in the discussion section doctors to test all CFers for lactose intolerance, not just those with the genes for it. 3) the CFers tested were Polish nationals only (it was a Polish study). Since lactose intolerance is a ethnically-determined genetic trait, it does not make sense that we make projections from this study on 52 Polish nationals onto the worldwide CF population. Rates of lactose intolerance vary greatly depending on ethnicity (check out this sweet map), even within Western Europe. 4) conclusions about similar rates of lactose intolerance in CF vs. non-CF populations were made for "mild-type" CF mutations only. Although "mild-type" is not defined, it is certain that deltaF508 is not in the mild category. In fact, in the discussion section it is stated that studies have shown deltaF508's are more likely to be lactose intolerant than the general population, and furthermore studies have shown that very young CFers in general (considering all mutations, not limited to mild-type) are more predisposed to non-genetic lactose intolerance (i.e. "secondary hypolactasia").

It is important to note, as this study does, that genes are not the only thing that can cause lactose intolerance. It can be caused by gut infections or dysbiosis which destroy the microvilli that house the lactase enzyme. Lactase is required to break down lactose. Pancreatic insufficiency and CF epithelial cell disregulation may be enough to destroy gut lactase. Even stress or viral infections can destroy lactase in the guts (one reason why it is suggested to avoid dairy when you have a cold or flu). Furthermore, lactose intolerance is not the only reason why dairy can cause health problems. Even if someone is lactose tolerant, they can be casein-sensitive, or even allergic to casein. Casein is the protein in milk, and casein sensitivities and allergies are very common, and go hand in hand with gluten sensitivities. This is mediated by leaky gut syndrome, another result of gut dysbiosis.

So this study is not large, thorough, or well-designed enough to make any conclusions about the relationship between CF and lactose intolerance in the general CF population, unfortunately.

********
All that said, the discussion section of this study was FASCINATING!!!!! Did you get a chance to look at it? I am SO glad you posted this article because it led me to other sources that discuss the issue of possibly reasons WHY CF developed in the first place (evolutionarily). I have been aware for a few years now that researchers hypothesized that CF developed as an adaptation to cholera, since carriers and those with double-alleles (CFers) do not develop the lethal diarrhea that causes death from cholera. In fact, CFers and carriers do not suffer from any kind of lethal pathogen-mediated diarrhea (I guess this is why I never had any kind of digestive problems when traveling abroad when ALL of my friends did). This led other researchers to conclude (and this is where it gets really interesting) that CF (particularly the deltaF508 mutation) may have developed as a response to the diarrhea induced by lactose intolerance! What?! Crazy right? So what's the significance? Well, when Europeans starting eating dairy 9,000 years ago, the theory goes that they developed two genetic strategies to avoid the diarrhea from lactose intolerance that can cause death: 1) lactase persistence, which leads to lactose Tolerance, and 2) the gene that codes for CF, particularly the deltaF508 mutation. It even says that people with the deltaF508 mutation are less likely to have the gene for lactase persistence than mild-type CF mutations, which makes sense since the mild-type mutations may be younger (conjecture) and maybe not related to lactose intolerance, so a CFer with a mild-type mutation may need lactase persistence to avoid lactose-mediated diarrhea whereas someone with deltaF508 wouldn't! That is why the gene for lactase persistence may be more common in mild mutations than in deltaF508. This is my conclusion given what was said in the article, if anyone has another interpretation, please correct me. The other cool thing that was mentioned in a different aricle on the deltaF508 mutation is that there were two migrations of the gene into Europe at different times, once 52,000 years ago (maybe an epigenetic response to pathogen-borne diarrhea) and a second time 9,000 years ago (most likely as a response to dairying). So maybe both cholera AND lactose intolerance caused CF?!?!

Does any one else find this as ridiculously interesting as me?
 
Hi Epona, I'm glad you are enjoying the research! I also can get totally carried away when I find an interesting thread of articles. Lactose is not high on my list though, probably because my son tolerates dairy well.

I meant to say that milk contains IFG-1 (Insulin-Like Growth Factor 1). I just looked it up again and low levels of IGF-1 is a big problem in CF. It is required not only for growth but for many other processes:

Milk is beneficial for bone formation and growth in the general population: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18704544

Articles about IGF-1 and CF (it seems to be researched a lot):
Insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF-1) enhances the protein expression of CFTR: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23555857
Serum insulin-like growth factor-1 (IGF-1) during CF pulmonary exacerbation: Trends and biomarker correlations: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ppul.22822/abstract
Low levels of insulin-like growth factor-1 contribute to alveolar macrophage dysfunction in cystic fibrosis: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23698746

I think you are a bit harsh on the study on lactose intolerance in CF, presumably they just studied it in the patients they had, and at least they did a study. It looks there have been no bigger studies on the topic which might indicate that it is not seen as an issue. But of course the GI side of CF has not been studied that much anyway...
 

Simba15

Member
I eat very little dairy. It causes a great deal of muscous. Cow milk is made for cows not humans - we should not even consume it. I drink Almond Milk. I eat under 100 grams of a carbs a day. My carbs come from veggies. no breads, pasta, potatos, bananas, etc. I have always has a carb problem. The CF clinic was VERY UNHELPFUL with this. The nuturiotnist didn't even respond to me. The CF clinic needs to pay ME to do research for them, I don't need to pay them. They have done nothing for me. I have spent thousands of dollars on my own trying to get decent treatment. I sure don't get it at the CF clinic. Proteins I eat are fish, peanut butter (natural), plant based proteins (no soy).
 

Simba15

Member
wow it would not surprise me. Cow milk is NOT for humans. It is for cows! Plain and simple. We drink cow milk b/c dairy farmers have convinced us it is good for us. Why? $$$$$$. No other reason. The dairy (and meat) industries are cruel, abusive and full of proproganda. Thank you for this information.
Hey MotherofCFBoy11yrs. Thank you for posting that study, it was unexpectedly interesting! It sent me down a wild rabbit hole of research and I discovered some really interesting things to contemplate (see below)! Regarding your last sentence - I hope you are not referring to the artificial bovine growth hormone that they give the cows which gives them mastitis and other diseases, and is also unsafe for human consumption. And I agree, grains are certainly concerning and difficult to digest for everyone, not just those with CF, Celiac, or both.

But first off, after reading through the study carefully I had to conclude that this study was too poorly designed and way too small to make any CF population-wide conclusions about lactose intolerance. I could go into great detail (and will if you're interested), but the main issues with the study are thus: 1) its sample size is very small (only tested 52 CFers for lactose intolerance using the hydrogen breath test). 2) only those CFers who had the genes for lactose intolerance (52 out of 289) were tested for lactose intolerance with the breath test. The other CFers with genes for lactase persistence (a.k.a. lactose tolerance) were not tested. This does not make sense since there are many other ways to become lactose intolerant other than genetics (and the study admitted this - they call it "secondary hypolactasia" and encouraged in the discussion section doctors to test all CFers for lactose intolerance, not just those with the genes for it. 3) the CFers tested were Polish nationals only (it was a Polish study). Since lactose intolerance is a ethnically-determined genetic trait, it does not make sense that we make projections from this study on 52 Polish nationals onto the worldwide CF population. Rates of lactose intolerance vary greatly depending on ethnicity (check out this sweet map), even within Western Europe. 4) conclusions about similar rates of lactose intolerance in CF vs. non-CF populations were made for "mild-type" CF mutations only. Although "mild-type" is not defined, it is certain that deltaF508 is not in the mild category. In fact, in the discussion section it is stated that studies have shown deltaF508's are more likely to be lactose intolerant than the general population, and furthermore studies have shown that very young CFers in general (considering all mutations, not limited to mild-type) are more predisposed to non-genetic lactose intolerance (i.e. "secondary hypolactasia").

It is important to note, as this study does, that genes are not the only thing that can cause lactose intolerance. It can be caused by gut infections or dysbiosis which destroy the microvilli that house the lactase enzyme. Lactase is required to break down lactose. Pancreatic insufficiency and CF epithelial cell disregulation may be enough to destroy gut lactase. Even stress or viral infections can destroy lactase in the guts (one reason why it is suggested to avoid dairy when you have a cold or flu). Furthermore, lactose intolerance is not the only reason why dairy can cause health problems. Even if someone is lactose tolerant, they can be casein-sensitive, or even allergic to casein. Casein is the protein in milk, and casein sensitivities and allergies are very common, and go hand in hand with gluten sensitivities. This is mediated by leaky gut syndrome, another result of gut dysbiosis.

So this study is not large, thorough, or well-designed enough to make any conclusions about the relationship between CF and lactose intolerance in the general CF population, unfortunately.

********
All that said, the discussion section of this study was FASCINATING!!!!! Did you get a chance to look at it? I am SO glad you posted this article because it led me to other sources that discuss the issue of possibly reasons WHY CF developed in the first place (evolutionarily). I have been aware for a few years now that researchers hypothesized that CF developed as an adaptation to cholera, since carriers and those with double-alleles (CFers) do not develop the lethal diarrhea that causes death from cholera. In fact, CFers and carriers do not suffer from any kind of lethal pathogen-mediated diarrhea (I guess this is why I never had any kind of digestive problems when traveling abroad when ALL of my friends did). This led other researchers to conclude (and this is where it gets really interesting) that CF (particularly the deltaF508 mutation) may have developed as a response to the diarrhea induced by lactose intolerance! What?! Crazy right? So what's the significance? Well, when Europeans starting eating dairy 9,000 years ago, the theory goes that they developed two genetic strategies to avoid the diarrhea from lactose intolerance that can cause death: 1) lactase persistence, which leads to lactose Tolerance, and 2) the gene that codes for CF, particularly the deltaF508 mutation. It even says that people with the deltaF508 mutation are less likely to have the gene for lactase persistence than mild-type CF mutations, which makes sense since the mild-type mutations may be younger (conjecture) and maybe not related to lactose intolerance, so a CFer with a mild-type mutation may need lactase persistence to avoid lactose-mediated diarrhea whereas someone with deltaF508 wouldn't! That is why the gene for lactase persistence may be more common in mild mutations than in deltaF508. This is my conclusion given what was said in the article, if anyone has another interpretation, please correct me. The other cool thing that was mentioned in a different aricle on the deltaF508 mutation is that there were two migrations of the gene into Europe at different times, once 52,000 years ago (maybe an epigenetic response to pathogen-borne diarrhea) and a second time 9,000 years ago (most likely as a response to dairying). So maybe both cholera AND lactose intolerance caused CF?!?!

Does any one else find this as ridiculously interesting as me?
 

jono

New member
Hi Simba15,

I am having gut issues as well. Are you still getting benefit from the 2 new enzyme supplements (XymoZyme and Intenzyme Forte)?

Also do you take any of the usual CF enzymes as well (e.g. Creon)?
 

Simba15

Member
I just started taking ZenPep. The naturopathic medicine did help me but not enough. The Zen have is about five times stronger as the naturopathic stuff. I am going to see a specialist to make sure I am taking the right amount of Sanpat
 
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