HTS ineffective

[Havoc]

That has to be a mistype. 0.3% is below that of even half normal saline which is hypotonic and would have the opposite effect. I would assume rosesixtyfive meant 3%.

If rosesixtyfive's son already cultures PA, then HTS makes a little more sense, but I would still run it past a doc.

 

[Havoc]

That has to be a mistype. 0.3% is below that of even half normal saline which is hypotonic and would have the opposite effect. I would assume rosesixtyfive meant 3%.

If rosesixtyfive's son already cultures PA, then HTS makes a little more sense, but I would still run it past a doc.

 

[Ratatosk]

We'd asked about it when DS was younger and his doctor indicated that at the time most of the studies were done on people with lung issues and he wanted to wait until there was more done on children and people whose lungs weren't as affected.

At our local CF clinic one of the RTs did use HTS to try to get a sputum sample and at the time DS had a dry cough and we later found was culturing steno maltophilia. He RUMBLED like a 3 pack a day smoker -- I was shocked as DS' lungs are usually clear and he doesn't cough anything up. Next time, after he was treated for steno maltophilia, the HTS didn't do a thing.

 

[Ratatosk]

We'd asked about it when DS was younger and his doctor indicated that at the time most of the studies were done on people with lung issues and he wanted to wait until there was more done on children and people whose lungs weren't as affected.

At our local CF clinic one of the RTs did use HTS to try to get a sputum sample and at the time DS had a dry cough and we later found was culturing steno maltophilia. He RUMBLED like a 3 pack a day smoker -- I was shocked as DS' lungs are usually clear and he doesn't cough anything up. Next time, after he was treated for steno maltophilia, the HTS didn't do a thing.

 

[rosesixtyfive]

Yes, it is 7% and not .7%. And thank you all, we will talk to our pulmonoligist/CF team as soon as possible. rosesixtyfivemother of Sam (ddF508, 2 years old)

 

[rosesixtyfive]

Yes, it is 7% and not .7%. And thank you all, we will talk to our pulmonoligist/CF team as soon as possible. rosesixtyfivemother of Sam (ddF508, 2 years old)

 

[MamaDee]

My 2 year old is also on HTS and I plan on keeping him on it unless our insurance decides to stop paying due to this study result. I didn't read this particular article, but did read multiple others, and a good point mentioned is that there is less for the saline to work on in kids. My thinking is that since it has been proven effective in older kids and adults, wouldn't you think it could help keep excess sputum at bay and thinned out over time if started early? Next test needs to be on infants and young kids who take it into older childhood and beyond. This would be what I'm really interested in.

 

[MamaDee]

My 2 year old is also on HTS and I plan on keeping him on it unless our insurance decides to stop paying due to this study result. I didn't read this particular article, but did read multiple others, and a good point mentioned is that there is less for the saline to work on in kids. My thinking is that since it has been proven effective in older kids and adults, wouldn't you think it could help keep excess sputum at bay and thinned out over time if started early? Next test needs to be on infants and young kids who take it into older childhood and beyond. This would be what I'm really interested in.

 

[jcwise62]

My son was diagnosed at age 10. As the therapies were added including HTS we noticed the following.

Prior to diagnosis, he would get a chest infection ever 2 to 4 months and go on a Z-pack to clear it up. Since CF diagnosis we have only had one chest infection that made him sick enough to go on a antibiotic.

His lung capacity at diagnosis was in the mid 80's now he is at 107.

We do our HTS 5 days a week, twice a day along with the vesting, the weekends when he is swimming, playing basketball, outside, and running around we have a break. Pulmozyme every day never a break. Since he is pancreatic sufficient, what a strange term, we have no pills other than culterelle and singular.

In reviewing his ability to resist different bacteria, I have faith in the fact that the saline, vesting and Pulmozyme combination is what has aided his ability to stave off an infection. While the study shows some interesting information, I would think each persons experience would be more indicative than a general NIH study.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Jeff Wise
Dad of Parker. Diag age 10, about to be 13. df508, r347p

 

[jcwise62]

My son was diagnosed at age 10. As the therapies were added including HTS we noticed the following.

Prior to diagnosis, he would get a chest infection ever 2 to 4 months and go on a Z-pack to clear it up. Since CF diagnosis we have only had one chest infection that made him sick enough to go on a antibiotic.

His lung capacity at diagnosis was in the mid 80's now he is at 107.

We do our HTS 5 days a week, twice a day along with the vesting, the weekends when he is swimming, playing basketball, outside, and running around we have a break. Pulmozyme every day never a break. Since he is pancreatic sufficient, what a strange term, we have no pills other than culterelle and singular.

In reviewing his ability to resist different bacteria, I have faith in the fact that the saline, vesting and Pulmozyme combination is what has aided his ability to stave off an infection. While the study shows some interesting information, I would think each persons experience would be more indicative than a general NIH study.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Jeff Wise
Dad of Parker. Diag age 10, about to be 13. df508, r347p

 

[mesler]

I was reasearching using ultrasonic nebulizers to basically salinize the ambient room air and found a method and tested it briefly, but ultimately I was deterred because, believe it or not,there is conflicting data on whether the CF airway is hypertonic or isotonic. Read about the high salt hypothesis here: <a href="http://www.stanford.edu/class/psych121/humangenome-CF.htm%20%20">http://www.stanford.edu/class/psych121/humangenome-CF.htm </a>
Here's the paper:<a href="http://www.columbia.edu/itc/biology/pollack/w4065/client_edit/11-30-01%20pdfs/w4065/cell85_229.pdf">http://www.columbia.edu/itc/biology/pollack/w4065/client_edit/11-30-01%20pdfs/w4065/cell85_229.pdf</a>
The gist of it is that they found that higher salt content in the ASL inhibits our natural ability to kill bacteria, whereas a normal ASL promotes it. Just diluting the CF airway's ASL was shown to restore bacteriacidal factors. *I think this study seems to lend support to the high salt hypothesis, as it would have predicted this outcome.

 

[mesler]

I was reasearching using ultrasonic nebulizers to basically salinize the ambient room air and found a method and tested it briefly, but ultimately I was deterred because, believe it or not,there is conflicting data on whether the CF airway is hypertonic or isotonic. Read about the high salt hypothesis here: <a href="http://www.stanford.edu/class/psych121/humangenome-CF.htm%20%20">http://www.stanford.edu/class/psych121/humangenome-CF.htm </a>
Here's the paper:<a href="http://www.columbia.edu/itc/biology/pollack/w4065/client_edit/11-30-01%20pdfs/w4065/cell85_229.pdf">http://www.columbia.edu/itc/biology/pollack/w4065/client_edit/11-30-01%20pdfs/w4065/cell85_229.pdf</a>
The gist of it is that they found that higher salt content in the ASL inhibits our natural ability to kill bacteria, whereas a normal ASL promotes it. Just diluting the CF airway's ASL was shown to restore bacteriacidal factors. *I think this study seems to lend support to the high salt hypothesis, as it would have predicted this outcome.

 

[stephen]

As "HAVOC" suggested, Hypertonic Saline thins the mucus and is a good sputum induction agent.

I find it extremely helpful! Most of the "junk" I am able to bring up is during and right after the Hypertonic treatments. (I do 5 mL of 7% twice a day. When I'm not feeling well, I try to get an extra treatment in.)

It may work better in "older" people because they are better at coughing and can take better advantage of the mucus being loosened.

Stephen
70 y/o, FEV 1 of 48%

 

[stephen]

As "HAVOC" suggested, Hypertonic Saline thins the mucus and is a good sputum induction agent.

I find it extremely helpful! Most of the "junk" I am able to bring up is during and right after the Hypertonic treatments. (I do 5 mL of 7% twice a day. When I'm not feeling well, I try to get an extra treatment in.)

It may work better in "older" people because they are better at coughing and can take better advantage of the mucus being loosened.

Stephen
70 y/o, FEV 1 of 48%

 

[Havoc]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>mesler</b></i> I was reasearching using ultrasonic nebulizers to basically salinize the ambient room air and found a method and tested it briefly, but ultimately I was deterred because, believe it or not,there is conflicting data on whether the CF airway is hypertonic or isotonic. Read about the high salt hypothesis here: <a href="http://www.stanford.edu/class/psych121/humangenome-CF.htm%20%20">http://www.stanford.edu/class/psych121/humangenome-CF.htm </a> Here's the paper: <a href="http://www.columbia.edu/itc/biology/pollack/w4065/client_edit/11-30-01%20pdfs/w4065/cell85_229.pdf">http://www.columbia.edu/itc/biology/pollack/w4065/client_edit/11-30-01%20pdfs/w4065/cell85_229.pdf</a> The gist of it is that they found that higher salt content in the ASL inhibits our natural ability to kill bacteria, whereas a normal ASL promotes it. Just diluting the CF airway's ASL was shown to restore bacteriacidal factors. *I think this study seems to lend support to the high salt hypothesis, as it would have predicted this outcome.</end quote>

I scanned this article briefly and it's very interesting. I encourage you to start a new thread on this in both this section and the adult section.

 

[Havoc]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>mesler</b></i> I was reasearching using ultrasonic nebulizers to basically salinize the ambient room air and found a method and tested it briefly, but ultimately I was deterred because, believe it or not,there is conflicting data on whether the CF airway is hypertonic or isotonic. Read about the high salt hypothesis here: <a href="http://www.stanford.edu/class/psych121/humangenome-CF.htm%20%20">http://www.stanford.edu/class/psych121/humangenome-CF.htm </a> Here's the paper: <a href="http://www.columbia.edu/itc/biology/pollack/w4065/client_edit/11-30-01%20pdfs/w4065/cell85_229.pdf">http://www.columbia.edu/itc/biology/pollack/w4065/client_edit/11-30-01%20pdfs/w4065/cell85_229.pdf</a> The gist of it is that they found that higher salt content in the ASL inhibits our natural ability to kill bacteria, whereas a normal ASL promotes it. Just diluting the CF airway's ASL was shown to restore bacteriacidal factors. *I think this study seems to lend support to the high salt hypothesis, as it would have predicted this outcome.</end quote>

I scanned this article briefly and it's very interesting. I encourage you to start a new thread on this in both this section and the adult section.

 

[Havoc]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>jcwise62</b></i> My son was diagnosed at age 10. As the therapies were added including HTS we noticed the following. Prior to diagnosis, he would get a chest infection ever 2 to 4 months and go on a Z-pack to clear it up. Since CF diagnosis we have only had one chest infection that made him sick enough to go on a antibiotic. His lung capacity at diagnosis was in the mid 80's now he is at 107. We do our HTS 5 days a week, twice a day along with the vesting, the weekends when he is swimming, playing basketball, outside, and running around we have a break. Pulmozyme every day never a break. Since he is pancreatic sufficient, what a strange term, we have no pills other than culterelle and singular. In reviewing his ability to resist different bacteria, I have faith in the fact that the saline, vesting and Pulmozyme combination is what has aided his ability to stave off an infection. While the study shows some interesting information, I would think each persons experience would be more indicative than a general NIH study. Just my 2 cents worth. Jeff Wise Dad of Parker. Diag age 10, about to be 13. df508, r347p</end quote>

There are too many variables here to draw any conclusions on which treatments are helping either alone or in comnbination.

 

[Havoc]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>jcwise62</b></i> My son was diagnosed at age 10. As the therapies were added including HTS we noticed the following. Prior to diagnosis, he would get a chest infection ever 2 to 4 months and go on a Z-pack to clear it up. Since CF diagnosis we have only had one chest infection that made him sick enough to go on a antibiotic. His lung capacity at diagnosis was in the mid 80's now he is at 107. We do our HTS 5 days a week, twice a day along with the vesting, the weekends when he is swimming, playing basketball, outside, and running around we have a break. Pulmozyme every day never a break. Since he is pancreatic sufficient, what a strange term, we have no pills other than culterelle and singular. In reviewing his ability to resist different bacteria, I have faith in the fact that the saline, vesting and Pulmozyme combination is what has aided his ability to stave off an infection. While the study shows some interesting information, I would think each persons experience would be more indicative than a general NIH study. Just my 2 cents worth. Jeff Wise Dad of Parker. Diag age 10, about to be 13. df508, r347p</end quote>

There are too many variables here to draw any conclusions on which treatments are helping either alone or in comnbination.

 

[Printer]

I'm suprised at you guys. You know that one study is not worth much.

Bill

 

[Printer]

I'm suprised at you guys. You know that one study is not worth much.

Bill