Medical Marijuana

Enzo2311

New member
Hello. I have Cystic Fibrosis, and I was curious to know what your opinions were on CFers who use Medical Marijuana as a medicine to aide in Cystic Fibrosis. I want to know the benefits, the downsides, opinions, and facts about Medical Marijuana and Cystic Fibrosis. If you're a parent of someone who has CF, would you allow your child to consume Medical Marijuana? If you're a person with CF, would you use Medical Marijuana?


When I say use, I mean smoke, "vape", consume (through eating), or any other way that it can be used.
 

Diana Blue

New member
Hi,

i believe it is very beneficial in many ways- mucus clearance, antibacterial, antifungal. I have used in edible form to treat my TMJ, and just started giving a cbd chew ( non-psychoactive) to my son ( 18 yrs old) about a month ago. He reports much thinner mucus and much less chest pain.
 

politicaljules

New member
I do not think that smoked marijuana is considered medical marijuana. Especially for people with lung disease. I am NOT an anti-smoking activist. However, I am an advocate for lung health. Smoking [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Trebuchet, arial, sans-serif]marijuana has known harmful effects on people with respiratory problems and produces toxins that are not related to the THC or canniboid content. Smoking marijuana can cause a chronic cough and increased risk of bronchitis and lung infections.[/FONT]

[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Trebuchet, arial, sans-serif]As far as Vaping goes, I am not sure, but I would worry that the vape mist could spread viruses or other small particles between people. I know the chemicals are in liquid form with E-cigs and I don't know if that would be a delivery system for medical marijuana.[/FONT]
 

LittleLab4CF

Super Moderator
Enzo,
I have posted quite a bit about Medical Marijuana (MM) in the past advocating for MM use with common sense cautions. I wouldn't recommend MM as a first line of treating CF pulmonary issues but CF takes its toll on our mental as well as physical health and there could be a positive trade off.

Vaping cannabis delivers unburned vapors into the lungs beginning at temperatures around 360°F in the vaporizer and hopefully is cooled down considerably by the time it passes one's lips. The cannabis vapor is dry, no steam is involved since cannabanoids boil at temperatures well above that of water (@ 315°-356°F) compared to ~212°F for water.

I've observed two effects related to using a direct draw vaporizer, both related to the dryness. It dries me up and that generally opens my lungs. I have FEV1 tests to confirm this. The dry lung mucus is less likely to become infected from my experience. However, when I do contract pneumonia or such, I need to hussle in order to moisten any dried mucus. Sooner or later all the mucus must be loosened, hydrated and expectorated.

Fortunately nebulizing regularly with hypertonic saline rehydrates the mucus and mucosa. Your regular pulmonary routine will reverse any negative effects of MM vaping. Vaping is the main delivery method to be considering medical effects specific to MM and the lungs. Turpenoids, or essential oils that stimulate copious amounts of mucus like camphor near the nose. Induced coughing from the MM turpenoids has been helpful in loosening and coughing out mucus and phlegm. It helps with my referred lung pain. As far as the effort and expense involved in using MM, the argument for its use for clearing the lungs, current nebulizing formulations do a better job. There's more to MM to consider. In particular there aren't any medicines for referred lung pain. Your sore ribs or spasming back muscles can be intolerable, some relief here may cut down on strong pain medicines.

My interest in MM began when I was diagnosed with Parkinson's disease. There is a lot of supporting evidence that MS is helpful in many CF patients and no correlation between dopamine and cannabanoids but they are helping me, with my neurologist's blessings. Many medicines have multiple uses, aspirin being a good example of a drug that helps prevent strokes/heart attacks and stops a throbbing headache.

A major reason I have supported your efforts to legally obtain and use MM has to do with other important issues of CF. I wouldn't doubt if a fair percentage of your peers and friends take some medicine to improve their mental health. Depression, anxiety, hyperactivity and self absorption are all potential issues that come with CF. You're supercharged metabolism is so because that's a necessity in fighting your CF. There isn't an easy way to escape the fight or flight state CF has a person constantly.

I saw the choice as cycling through all the anti-anxiety, neuroleptic and mood stabilizers or MM to resolve the anxiety, existential angst (fear of dying, fear of afterlife) and the go-go-go mentality in spite
of being physically sick. If pot worked so well, it would be the legal and under prescription, it may not eliminate all the anti-anxiety, antidepressants, SSRIs and what have you. I feel you could get by on a single, low dose medicine that augments your MM. It is very individual and nobody should stop or change a psych med without the doctor participating. Suspending such a drug could result in suicidal thoughts of suicide or worse, acting on a simple chemical imbalance.

When I was 19, my best friend's father killed himself, just like that. No leading hints or behavioral changes, one evening after dinner he went out to his shop and shot himself. There was nothing wrong or intolerable going on. He was diabetic, type I, requiring insulin and a new drug allowed a less regimented life. This new drug had the unanticipated effect of making its users to become suicidal. If he had waited a year before trying it, this drug at least was pulled because of the terribly high numbers of patients who attempted suicide.

You have justifiable reasons to feel anxiety and fear, depression and a host of mental health issues to address in much the same way you address any physical issue. I'm not a fan of non psychiatrists prescribing anti-anxiety, antidepressant, mood stabilizer and antipsychotic drugs. The average PCP can manage your medications after psychiatrist has fine tuned them. If a person needs and benefits from a Zoloft or gabapentine, Zanax or Efexor, the doctor who is an authority on these tricky medicines, a psychiatrist, is the only doctor I would consider an expert, and here you need that expert.

My personal and professional experience with cannabis is this. Taken in moderation, a good Sativa- Indica hybrid is a good substitute for anti-anxiety and it helps chill your mind. Being in a high metabolic state, we literally are living faster than other around us because the brain is running overtime like a toddler after drinking a quart of Coke.

Cannabis is an intoxicant. The world renowned anthropologist Margaret Mead was once commissioned by the Nixon administration to study and report on marijuana use in America and its affects on society and culture. The Republican administration was so certain that Mead's conclusions would agree with theirs, nobody bothered to read any of her work.

Stress can be good, nothing about the stresses CF imposes is good for us and the lines blur when physical and mental stress become overwhelming. Emotional pain might as well be an infected wound. Dr. Mead studied cultures that were totally detached from the larger world. An Eden of innocence, devoid of the constant pressure on our modern world they were still overwhelmed by life's pressures and many sanctioned intoxicants were consumed in a parallel of an American Kegger. Alcoholic beverages are abundant in deepest dark Africa and Meade spoke out in support of marijuana use in America. The ancient and isolated people utilized cannabis in balance with alcohol.

If there is no other reason for using pot than to enjoy getting high, don't forget there's a time and a place. Do things in moderation and consider it the wine or beer you would otherwise enjoy since most CFers can't or shouldn't drink.

Another important question now that you have more experience with it, is it helping?

LL
 

Enzo2311

New member
Enzo,
I have posted quite a bit about Medical Marijuana (MM) in the past advocating for MM use with common sense cautions. I wouldn't recommend MM as a first line of treating CF pulmonary issues but CF takes its toll on our mental as well as physical health and there could be a positive trade off.

Vaping cannabis delivers unburned vapors into the lungs beginning at temperatures around 360°F in the vaporizer and hopefully is cooled down considerably by the time it passes one's lips. The cannabis vapor is dry, no steam is involved since cannabanoids boil at temperatures well above that of water (@ 315°-356°F) compared to ~212°F for water.

I've observed two effects related to using a direct draw vaporizer, both related to the dryness. It dries me up and that generally opens my lungs. I have FEV1 tests to confirm this. The dry lung mucus is less likely to become infected from my experience. However, when I do contract pneumonia or such, I need to hussle in order to moisten any dried mucus. Sooner or later all the mucus must be loosened, hydrated and expectorated.

Fortunately nebulizing regularly with hypertonic saline rehydrates the mucus and mucosa. Your regular pulmonary routine will reverse any negative effects of MM vaping. Vaping is the main delivery method to be considering medical effects specific to MM and the lungs. Turpenoids, or essential oils that stimulate copious amounts of mucus like camphor near the nose. Induced coughing from the MM turpenoids has been helpful in loosening and coughing out mucus and phlegm. It helps with my referred lung pain. As far as the effort and expense involved in using MM, the argument for its use for clearing the lungs, current nebulizing formulations do a better job. There's more to MM to consider. In particular there aren't any medicines for referred lung pain. Your sore ribs or spasming back muscles can be intolerable, some relief here may cut down on strong pain medicines.

My interest in MM began when I was diagnosed with Parkinson's disease. There is a lot of supporting evidence that MS is helpful in many CF patients and no correlation between dopamine and cannabanoids but they are helping me, with my neurologist's blessings. Many medicines have multiple uses, aspirin being a good example of a drug that helps prevent strokes/heart attacks and stops a throbbing headache.

A major reason I have supported your efforts to legally obtain and use MM has to do with other important issues of CF. I wouldn't doubt if a fair percentage of your peers and friends take some medicine to improve their mental health. Depression, anxiety, hyperactivity and self absorption are all potential issues that come with CF. You're supercharged metabolism is so because that's a necessity in fighting your CF. There isn't an easy way to escape the fight or flight state CF has a person constantly.

I saw the choice as cycling through all the anti-anxiety, neuroleptic and mood stabilizers or MM to resolve the anxiety, existential angst (fear of dying, fear of afterlife) and the go-go-go mentality in spite
of being physically sick. If pot worked so well, it would be the legal and under prescription, it may not eliminate all the anti-anxiety, antidepressants, SSRIs and what have you. I feel you could get by on a single, low dose medicine that augments your MM. It is very individual and nobody should stop or change a psych med without the doctor participating. Suspending such a drug could result in suicidal thoughts of suicide or worse, acting on a simple chemical imbalance.

When I was 19, my best friend's father killed himself, just like that. No leading hints or behavioral changes, one evening after dinner he went out to his shop and shot himself. There was nothing wrong or intolerable going on. He was diabetic, type I, requiring insulin and a new drug allowed a less regimented life. This new drug had the unanticipated effect of making its users to become suicidal. If he had waited a year before trying it, this drug at least was pulled because of the terribly high numbers of patients who attempted suicide.

You have justifiable reasons to feel anxiety and fear, depression and a host of mental health issues to address in much the same way you address any physical issue. I'm not a fan of non psychiatrists prescribing anti-anxiety, antidepressant, mood stabilizer and antipsychotic drugs. The average PCP can manage your medications after psychiatrist has fine tuned them. If a person needs and benefits from a Zoloft or gabapentine, Zanax or Efexor, the doctor who is an authority on these tricky medicines, a psychiatrist, is the only doctor I would consider an expert, and here you need that expert.

My personal and professional experience with cannabis is this. Taken in moderation, a good Sativa- Indica hybrid is a good substitute for anti-anxiety and it helps chill your mind. Being in a high metabolic state, we literally are living faster than other around us because the brain is running overtime like a toddler after drinking a quart of Coke.

Cannabis is an intoxicant. The world renowned anthropologist Margaret Mead was once commissioned by the Nixon administration to study and report on marijuana use in America and its affects on society and culture. The Republican administration was so certain that Mead's conclusions would agree with theirs, nobody bothered to read any of her work.

Stress can be good, nothing about the stresses CF imposes is good for us and the lines blur when physical and mental stress become overwhelming. Emotional pain might as well be an infected wound. Dr. Mead studied cultures that were totally detached from the larger world. An Eden of innocence, devoid of the constant pressure on our modern world they were still overwhelmed by life's pressures and many sanctioned intoxicants were consumed in a parallel of an American Kegger. Alcoholic beverages are abundant in deepest dark Africa and Meade spoke out in support of marijuana use in America. The ancient and isolated people utilized cannabis in balance with alcohol.

If there is no other reason for using pot than to enjoy getting high, don't forget there's a time and a place. Do things in moderation and consider it the wine or beer you would otherwise enjoy since most CFers can't or shouldn't drink.

Another important question now that you have more experience with it, is it helping?

LL
I notice that it gives me additional appetite. Like when I'm done eating and i use MM i can easily eat even more. Like for example after 1 cup or so of pudding i get full, but after i use MM i can eat another cup or so. It also acts like my inhaler does, its like a natural bronchiodilator I've seen.
 
M

morgo

Guest
My experience with mm is mixed. The psychological benefits as mentioned above, for treating depression, anxiety etc I believe to be beneficial in maintaining good mental health, when used in moderation. However, your reduction in willpower and increase in laziness may be detrimental if you can't find a balance between physical activity(which is crucial for lung health) and mm use. Getting stoned is takes a lot of energy. If mm use is reducing your ability to get a decent workout than you need to reassess your use of it.
In terms of physical benefits and lung function, vaporized mm is the only route that makes any sense. As CF lung tissue is more susceptible to cancers which smoke over long term use can cause. Studies on the effects of inhaled marijuana products on the lung aren't extensive by any means. And it's my belief that the structure of THC and various cannibinoids resembles cholesterol which has been shown to reduce the ability of pulmonary surfactant to perform it's function of reducing the work involved in the expiration inhalation cycle. As you may know cannabis extracts are lipophilic, they dissolve quite nicely into other lipids. PS is primarily lipid, 85% or more. If you have every taken a big vape hit and noticed that it takes more work to draw breathe after this is probably why. Although studies on the interaction of cannabis extracts and PS are very limited.
The bottom line in CF lung health is that exercise, as much as possible, is absolutely crucial. If MM is reducing your ability to exercise you need to reassess. It is also well documented in scientific literature that exercise is a very effective treatment for mmild to moderate depression and anxiety. Personally, I recommend hitting the gym a couple of extra times a week and skipping that daily bong toke, make it a weekly or monthly thing at most, small irregular amounts like that won't hurt you.
 

stever

New member
As far as I'm concerned, the 'harmful' content has been taken out of the natural form. I use only marijuana high in CBD content for anxiety. I could not get high if I wanted to. The only drawback that I can see is that medical marijuana dispensaries run out of this quickly.
 

MikeInMT

New member
Hi,

i believe it is very beneficial in many ways- mucus clearance, antibacterial, antifungal. I have used in edible form to treat my TMJ, and just started giving a cbd chew ( non-psychoactive) to my son ( 18 yrs old) about a month ago. He reports much thinner mucus and much less chest pain.
I don't think smoking it helps with antibacterial or antifungal, if anything is a higher risk for getting them infections. That being said, Several years back I asked my CF specialist about it, and he would not say to much cause it was still 100% illegal at that time. But what he did say was that unlike cigarettes that constrict your air ways, pot helps open them up. Now that its becoming more and more legal maybe more studies will be done to see if and how it would benefit CFers. I have only tried pot 2 or 3 times, and each time for a few days afterwards it seemed like my mucus was thinner and I was breathing better. But this was after I talked to the Dr so I do not know if any of it was just in my mind.
 

Lynwood

New member
Hi everyone! I just wanted to ask if any of you have tried marijuana for medication purposes? I've been suffering anorexia for almost a year now and planning to use medical marijuana products for my condition.I've been reading some articles about cannabis and its medical properties here in https://blog.bonzaseeds.com/querkle/ and im very fascinated about it. Not lucky for me in my country use of marijuana is illegal but now im planning to move in Colorado where you can use marijuana without any hassle. I really wanted to hear your thoughts about this and if you can give my any advice or tips feel free to tell me. Thanks!
 

LittleLab4CF

Super Moderator
I'm constantly fighting for weight gain and I live in Colorado. Since my 2014 post on the use of Medical Marijuana (MM) my neighbor found herself fighting for the next ounce of body mass. Strangely enough I have been in the same fight for over a year now.

My neighbor, Tina, has chronic migraine headaches and chronically took the maximum amount of OTC migraine meds, caffeine pills and then curl up and wait for the headache pain to end. A predictable ulcer formed and penetrated the wall of her stomach, draining the stomach contents into her gut. A wedge resection fixed the hole in her stomach and removed the portion of the stomach responsible for the hunger response.

My CF is GI dominant and I live in pretty much constant pain and have enough nausea to where eating isn't something that I look forward to. It's been like this since I can remember but now it's coming down to failure to thrive. From a year ago I have gone from 155 pounds to 125 pounds. I'm getting shorter but not as drastically as my skinny neighbor. I might have hit 6'0" the summer I was 19. My latest height was 5' 9 1/2" so I qualify for skinny. Tina went from a slender 160 pounds and 5'9" to 105 pounds in 6 months and struggles.

So far this sounds pretty grim. Two anorexic people in a pot legal state and I promise you that we're trying. We even check out different strains and see how our munchies work. To be honest, we are two very difficult cases. I'm convinced that we would be worse off without the advantage of MM. I do feel so much better when I vape after eating.

Colorado appears to be a welcome home to MM research. Considering that effectively, marijuana research is being actively discouraged by denying funding to academia and research facilities by our elected Federal officials, any research is potentially friendly. Some of the best research is being done by the MM industry itself, self funded.

Colorado's pot industry isn't a bunch of burned out hippies carving out pipes in a basement. It's not even close to being the enormous amount of liquor stores and the dollar volume, but we have got to understand that it isn't a genie we can put back, it's a force of nature with the potential for good and bad. Some very brilliant people are working out the multitudes of diseases potentially treatable with the drugs in the Cannabis plant. Sadly the bulk of the established research isn't being done in Colorado but Israel. No offense to Israel, much of what has legitimized MM as an effective medicine is from research done there. Colorado's pot industry is in part edible drugs, transdermal patches, and THC A, THC B, CBD, CBN and more cannabinoids in combination and in pure forms have been studied.

In my experience, MM is a great drug for appetite stimulation. I also take Marinol, the prescription version of THC. If you want to move to Colorado, welcome. If the only reason for this move is an appetite stimulant, try Marinol first.

Hope this helps,

LL
 

kenna2

Member
I take Marinol which is the prescription version of Medical Marijuana. It has saved my life on many occasions. While I love eating, there are times when I just don't appetite and there isn't anything you could do to get me to eat food. Sometimes this feeling can go on for days, especially when I'm sick and in the hospital. Before I was on Marinol, they tired giving me NG tube feeds with the highest strength formula and I would still lose weight. The only thing that worked for me was taking Marinol. My weight has increased and I'm now the heaviest I've been my entire life of 126lbs. I feel better and look so much better. I don't take it everyday. I only take it as needed when I start to lose my appetite or while I'm in the hospital. It makes you eat...OMG does it make you eat...lol. I do get the sensation of a high when I start out and then it fizzles out as time goes on. The high doesn't always happen though, because it all depends on how I absorb it. It's also great because it keeps me calm while I'm in the hospital too. I also agree with LittleLab4CF that you should try this route first. That way you can start on a small dose (2.5MG is the smallest dose) and get use to the feeling of how it makes you feel and act before starting on something so strong.
 

LittleLab4CF

Super Moderator
Kenna,

Thank you for sharing your experience with Marinol. Not long after Marinol (dronabinal) came out I discovered that doctors weren't exactly on board with writing prescriptions. My doctor at the time, wasn't writing prescriptions for anyone, as we're probably all of them short of doctors who were desperate for AIDs patients and people like CFers. I dropped efforts to get a script.

Now that MM is legal, doctors and law enforcement are mostly tickled. Mostly. A new Pain Management doctor refused to allow me to use MM because of the Federal laws. To my surprise he had no objections to Marinol so I got a prescription for it. The PM doctor and I didn't mesh and I have moved on. My new doctor doesn't have difficulty with the use of MM which gives me the option of Marinol for appetite stimulation and MM for nausea.

Your bringing up Marinol from first hand experience was wonderful. It is a great alternative to either getting it illegally acquired Cannabis, under age when you need it and people who just aren't into the world of MM. My experience has been positive with the use of Marinol, at least as good as quality MM.

LL
 

jero86

New member
You should also keep in mind, that moderate doses of CBD oil, which you're consuming, is pretty important thing for your health, and you should act based on information from dozens of informative medical articles. I can recommend you this website ( here: https://dailycbd.com/en/cbd-dosage/ ), which I've discovered few months ago. It helps CBD oil's consumers to get all the necessary information about doses of CBD, which they need to take, if they don't want to overdose.
 
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