cfers go (or should) to heaven

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ihatecf

New member
hey guys,

I was just wondering if there is fairness in this universe and there must be, then people who are born with illnesses or handicaps affecting their quality of life should go to heaven. Who is better for this criteria than cfers? The whole issue is worrying me and not making any sense. I mean as I was born with a terminating disease like cf which severely affected my quality of life, I was not given an equal chance with other healthy individuals. This leads me to two conclusions: That upon death there will be a compensation and that God will look with mercy on us, or we will be judged like others and there will be no consollation of any kind. We all know God is fair, thus the last fact should be unacceptable. My theory sounds ridiculous for some, but its somehow reasonable for me. I dont know what are your opinions on the subject...!
 
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anonymous

New member
I think that everyone is judged equal. I do not have CF but looking at an extreme if you killed someone should you get off with little or no punishment because of a handicap? I think that having a serious illness would not make you different in gods eyes. You still need to be a good person.


Beth
 
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Emily65Roses

New member
Just a mild suggestion. Next time, a topic like this might do better in the religious section of the forum. <img src="i/expressions/rose.gif" border="0">
 
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Allie

New member
That's the thing, I don't think God is fair. He doesn't have to be. He's God. I think God does things because of how he has designed the universe to run, not necessarily what would be fair to the individual. It's the utilitarian style of thinking, the greatest good. In a persian rug, is it fair to one thread that it should be cut so much shorter the others? No, but that's what makes the design.

I think God often makes very unfair choices, but they aren't mine to judge. He's God, I'm not. But I have never thought of God as 'fair' in the sense you're thinking, like he gave you CF, so you have a get out of jail free pass. I think your choices matter more than what you were predestined to have, else I have to imagine that someone who was born with something like great riches or given power (solomon, for example) Has to work harder than a normal person to get into heaven.

And Emily's right, this is better suited for a religious themed forum.
 
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ihatecf

New member
well, I dont remember the exact quote but Jesus himself has said that the rich can not enter his kingdom.
 
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anonymous

New member
Here's my 2 cents directed to the original poster of this thread, take it for what it's worth. In my opinion/understanding (realizing that not all of us agree on this), I believe CF or not--the way to heaven is belief and acceptance of Christ. Even though we have CF, we are still able to make this decision (or not).
To that end, I will say that I do think that those that have suffered here on earth will have more rewards in Heaven, just as the poor will be rich, the hungry full, etc. I don't know if I'll have a pup-tent or a mansion in Heaven, I'll just be glad if God lets me be there!
Hope <><
 
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Lilith

New member
I agree with Emily that this should have been put in the religious forum. However, even though I'm not religious, here's my 2 cents:

I don't think God cares if you have CF or not. I believe that there is a purpose for people with CF, and they fit into God's main scheme, but that doesn't give 'em a free pass. The teeny, tiny part of me that may or may not believe in God says that I was born with CF to guide my family on the right path. I believe that my family is a closer group because of my disease. They've even told me that seeing what I have to go through each day motiviates them to move on and keep going.

As far as Heaven, I don't think God makes exceptions. Like Allie said; if you kill someone, diseased or not, you belong in Hell. Those types of sins aren't forgiven, CF or no. I think the same rules apply to every human being. I don't believe God has mercy on people with handicaps...he made them that way for a reason, to fit into a grander design.

Again, just my opinon. Don't flame me, k?
 
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Allie

New member
haha..Jew.

But I actually will ATTEMPT to tackle that question, (insert disclaimer here) As I recall from my theology class, Jesus said it was DIFFICULT for the rich to enter his kingdom, because they often value material wealth. But King David owned the entire kingdom of Israel, and I am sure he went to heaven, being as he is mentioned in the bible more times than Jesus. And is considered and excellent example of a godly man.

edited to add : Thanks Lilith, it was his life motto <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif" border="0">

Also, to the poster(s) who say that acceptance of Jesus as the christ is it and everything , does that mean Ry's in Hell, and I'm going? I think Christians disagree on us silly Jews, but I always wonder....
 
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anonymous

New member
Actually he dint say the rich could NOT enter his kindom but he said it would be VERY difficult.
Jesus said it was easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of GOD.
 
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anonymous

New member
It is not for me to say who goes to Heaven and who doesn't, of course that is God's decision. I was just stating what my belief is, <i>to the original poster</i> and I can totally respect anyone else's belief that is different from mine.
I bet the original poster would not mind one bit if you shared your religious beliefs if you feel so inclined.
Hope
 
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JazzysMom

New member
This is one reason I have difficulties in connecting with a structured religion. I believe that if you are a good person or try the best that you can (you wont be perfect all the time, after all we are just human) than you deserve a place in heaven. I dont think it matters what illness or disability you dealt with. I also dont believe in the extreme that some beliefs have where you can go to confession, spill your guts & be forgiven until the next time. I realize that statement is a little crude, but its the general point. CF or not.....if you havent tried your best than you dont deserve the best! This topic definitely should have been addressed in the Prayer Request/Religious section in my opinion!
 
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65rosessamurai

Guest
I agree with those who suggested this topic belongs in the "Prayer Request" section, though that means it should probably be retitled to "Religious Topics", and added that prayers, etc. can be placed in that area. Also, since it seems "CF" and "Religious content" don't seem to mix, topics such as this would be most appropriate in the "Religious Topics" section.

Anyway, I agree with JazzysMom. I too, went through a "structured" form of religion, and it became one of my questions as to why such an ancient structure is continued--my only thought was "to keep the customs", and for rememberence...(also as a spiritual uplift to pass the "christianity" to others)--but after mass was over, everybody's cursing at everyone else to get out of their way in the parking lot because they all want to head off to 'Denny's' for lunch!

Confession...(haha), after my experience in dealing with a mortal who stood as a "symbol" of Jesus Christ (At least that's a common misconception of a Roman Catholic Priest), his decisions of how to forgive a persons' confessions can be as fallible as any humans. "To err is human..to forgive, devine" is based on the beholder.

Though I really like and respect Allies view here, maybe I'd be a good Jew, too? I'm a (former) Christian, and never thought that "if you don't follow the beliefs, etc., of Jesus Christ, you're bound for Hell"...Jesus Christ was BORN and raised Jewish! IF so, not just Jewish, but Buddhist, etc., are also bound for the same destiny, is this what is suggested? And, what happened to God's gift of giving man the freedom of choice? I thought the plan in regards to that was, "You can do this, this, that, but if you do this, you're bound for Hell--be a good human!"

Like I said, this belongs elsewhere; and since I'm giving opinion with my conceptions (Not assumtions, that'll make an A** out of all of us!), I'm not giving any accusations, so I don't expect any recriminating replies.
 
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Lilith

New member
<blockquote>Quote<br><hr><i>Originally posted by: <b>65rosessamurai</b></i><br>Anyway, I agree with JazzysMom. I too, went through a "structured" form of religion, and it became one of my questions as to why such an ancient structure is continued--my only thought was "to keep the customs", and for rememberence...(also as a spiritual uplift to pass the "christianity" to others)--but after mass was over, everybody's cursing at everyone else to get out of their way in the parking lot because they all want to head off to 'Denny's' for lunch!<hr></blockquote>

LOL!! Isn't that the truth! I think that's part of the reason why my family stopped going to church... They're still Catholic, but in their eyes, God doesn't care where you pray ^_^ And I certainly think He wouldn't be too proud of many church-goers for that very reason.
 
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EmilysMom

New member
OK...I need to throw my 2 cents in.....This does belong in the religious section....BUT I agree if you're a good person, you go to heaven (assuming that's what you believe in). I don't think you have to go to church to go to heaven. We stropped going to church because the other parishioners made it impossible for us to be there with nasty looks and out-loud comments about Emily's coughing "I'm not shaking hands with those people" sort of comments. I left church every Sunday either crying or swearing under my breath at those people for making us feelthat way. Is that the way you should leave after a church service? I don't think that's the intention of Sunday service, soi we stopped going. My children can be (and are) good people without the benefit of a buiding with a cross on top.
 
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wallflower

New member
I don't believe in the Church, and I think the Bible is a great read like any other book written by man.
However, I do believe in God and Angels and Heaven. I believe that God hears your prayers wherever you are, and that regardless of your health, sex or wealth, he sees us all as equals. I don't believe there is handicapped parking in heaven - I prefer to think that we go in because of the lessons we learned and the life we led, not because of the obsticles we were delt.

<blockquote>Quote<br><hr>I was not given an equal chance with other healthy individuals<hr></blockquote>
If you believe that Heaven deals with souls, then this statement does not make sense to me. Your soul (or mind, spirit, etc.) is not damaged because of cf. CF may make physical life more difficult, but your soul starts out life the same as anyone else. Living with cf shapes how we develope as people, but that is determined by how you choose to let it affect you.

Some think that we choose the obsticles in our lives before we are born to experience and learn from them before returning to heaven (which means if you commit suicide, you have to start over instead to going back to heaven). While I think this is interesting, it also means multiple trips between Heaven and Earth, and I really would like to be done after this life <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0">

Have you ever seen "What Dreams May Come"? It is a great movie that really made me think about dealth. The movies view on hell (and heaven) made a lot of sense to me.

Regardless, ihatecf, I think if you are comfortable with your belief, that is all that matters. Just don't abuse it to live a life of crime <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif" border="0">
 
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anonymous

New member
Without reading anything but the first post on this thread...
I've known some people with CF who are unkind, self absorbed, uncaring, lying mean people.

Having a chronic or "life threatening" illness doesn't immediately qualify you as a good person... it seems sort of nieve to insinuate that it does.
 
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anonymous

New member
Emily's Mom, we recently had some turmoil at our church. When everyone had left the building we were talking to another couple and one of them pointed to the church and said, "That is the most perfect any church can be". The building was empty, as soon as a person enters we ruin it with our human errors. I know what you mean about people ruining it, but remember that the God you believe is the reason for going (and not the jack@$$e$ that attend). I agree you don't have to go to church to have a relationship with God. We went for about 10 years without going to church. But if you find and church with truely caring people it is a wonderful experience.
 
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