My Little Bro not doing well PLEASE HELP URGENT!

Kimmiek

New member
Hi All,
Yesterday they told my family we have to make a decision. If you don't remember my past posts, My bro is 28 with CF and has not been doing well for the past year. He had surgery on his sinuses about 10 days ago. I believe the surgery caused a psuedomonus exasperation which put Mike into respitory arrest. He opted at that time for the vent.
After being on the Vent for 9 days today the ICU docs are telling me he won't come off. His CF docs are saying he would have to come a long way to get off. Then I read his (the CF docs) notes yesterday, and he wrote "sister still hopeful". What the hell does that mean? Like I am some kind of idiot. REALLY made me mad. He has this nice conversation with me, then writes that.

They are waiting for me to make a decision. They say they can try to wean him off and see what happens, says the CF doc. The ICU doc wants to stop care. They have told me they want to make him completely comfortable and take the vent out. But I have a real hard time with all of this.
How do you make this kind of decision when it is your family?
Mike said he wanted to fight, just yesterday, before the sedated him again. When they asked him if he wanted to be sedated he said no. The IDIOT ICU doc said he is on too much pain med to make any decision. BULLCRAP! In my heart of hearts I know Mike would want to fight to the very end.
I feel like I would be giving up on him if I had them just pull the vent. But they feel there is no hope. And he can't stay where he is. What they (ICU docs) don't understand is what Mike's baseline is. I have seen him walk around with #'s way off the charts by their standards. His lungs are really bad, and Mike said he would consider transplant as a last option. The ICU docs are not listening to me they are not doing what I asked and they are just sedating him. I HATE the doc who was on yesterday he is a total insensitive Ahole...He is treating me like a blonde bimbo. If one more person tells me "mike has a really bad bug" I am going to puke. The CF docs know I know what I am talking about, but the ICU docs think I am an idiot.

I don't feel like I completely understand what is going on. I read all the reports. His CO2 is hovering at 60 +-. His vent is on 65% O2. Mike normally has a CO2 level at around 50ish anyway and his FEV's are usually around 28% - 35% now.
Is this worse than I think it is?? He has come down to 65% from the 80% he was on two days ago and holding steady. He cultures (and has for a long time) pseudomonus and MRSA. no cepecia. I am fairly up to par on CF, the lab reports and Mike's condition until right now.

I do not have CF and I know Mike has been through alot. I don't know how I would feel in this situation. PLEASE help me understand what is going on and maybe lend me some advice in this situation. What would you do and what would you want? or If you have been through this with a loved one, what did you do??

HELP PLEASE!!!
 

anonymous

New member
Geesh sweetie.
I don't know what to say.

I can share some of my experience. Maybe it will be helpful.


It's true that the regular docs just don't get it. I can't count the number of times that ER docs and said to me about my husband "He is really really sick". (Like "no crap" "right" "he's been sick since he was born and now he has an exacerbation".) And I know the "you're a dumb blonde" look tool. The regular docs have no idea how long our loved ones have kept on keeping on when sick and how long we've been there with them.

On the other hand, sometimes, unfortunately, there is no recovery from a bad thing. I finally had to say "no more treatment" (including vent) for my husband when he had his final sepsis (not that anyone was actually suggesting that there was anything more they could do - just that they needed me to say stop.)

Can you talk to the CF docs again? Ask him about the weaning idea again and about the amount of meds that he's on (too drowsy to make the decision himself and all)?

I'll be keeping you both in my heart.
I am so so sorry you are in this situation.
You sound like a wonderful woman -- a wonderful sister.
-LisaV
 

coltsfan715

New member
Kim,

Reading your post just broke my heart. I am so so so sorry you are in this situation. I have no advice to offer, but I will be praying for you and for Mike. I would try not to worry much about the doctors comments about you in the notes. If those things are taken out of context it can lead to more problems than necessary.

I will be praying for you and ultimately you will make the best decision for your brother. You know what he wants and you know his wishes better than docs. Just pray on it (if you pray) and go with what you feel is right.

I hope someone is able to offer advice through their experiences with this.

Do take care and I will be thinking of you.

You guys are in my prayers.
Lindsey
 

Kimmiek

New member
Thank you Lisa.
It's just tough to take. I don't know which of the CF docs is on today. I will try to talk with them today, maybe that will help.
I just feel like I want to give my little bro the opportunity to do what he wants to do, but on the other hand, I don't want him to experience any more pain either.
I am sorry about the loss of your husband. It is so hard to love someone so much and to see them suffer with such a horrible disease and have there be nothing you can do.
 

anonymous

New member
Kim, I am wondering where you are and if there is anyone that could come and stand with you as an advocate for you and for Mike. Just a thought.
 

anonymous

New member
It IS terribly had to see them suffer and to be so darned impotent.
And it is tough to see them on the vent. And tough to watch them try to wean (especially if they can't - we did that with a friend or two).
The final act of love for all of us caregivers might well be to say icomfort care only and to let them go.
BUT ecactly WHEN it is the time to do that, is the tricky part.
All you can do is to try to get as much information from the most useful people that you can and then pray on it.

It is a terribly lonely decision, I know. But I am sure if you let your love for your bother and your spiritual values guide you and listen to both your head and your heart, you will make the right decision. And please know that you will be in all of our hearts as you do so,
LisaV
 

Kimmiek

New member
Thanks to all. It feels good to talk to others who have gone through this.
I am in Phoenix/Scottsdale Arizona. My brother is in Good Samaritan Hospital and His CF docs are Dr. Gong and Dr. O'Hagan...
 

JohnnaMarie

New member
Kimmeik:

Your love and concern for your brother's wellbeing brings tears to my eyes.

I do not admire the choice you have to make. If your brother cannot let you know what he wants..... then you have to choose...... what he would want you to do for him. I agree that you should talk with the docs again. You must dig deep and weigh all the facts on his situation. You know him best. When I am faced with an excruciating decision to make I get down on my knees and pray for guidance. Some people like to meditate..... Praying seems to calm me down and help me to reach a center so that I can think more clearly. I know your heart is breaking having to even consider making the choice to take him off the vent. Find that common ground between your heart and you mind. Then you can decide what to do.

Much Love
and Support
Johnna
 

katyf13

New member
Don't let anyone bully you into making a decision!!! If he feels he can fight, then they should let him fight! He reminds me of my Mike in some ways which is why your posts hit me hard. My Mike's pfts are in the teens to low 20s and he goes about his life as normal. Doctors certainly don't expect that. His CO2 is up now too and he just started bipap for the first time. He is in the hospital right now and the doctors there (not the cf docs) can be such idiots (especially residents). I know more about cf then they do. (for example, we got the "When did you get cf?" question recently). He has told me he will fight through anything no matter what.
I am thinking of you. You are a very brave and compassionate person for taking care of him. If you both want to fight, then fight!!! Hang in there!!!!
 

Jem

New member
Kim, I wish I could put my arms around you.<img src="i/expressions/heart.gif" border="0">  I cannot
imagine carrying this by myself.  Is there no one for you to
lean on?  No other relative or close friend?  You sound
like a very smart lady to me so don't let those doctors talk you
into anything you are uncomfortable with.  You know your
brother best, trust in that.  I certainly am one that believes
that prayer is powerful.  Not that prayer necessarily changes
things to the way we want  them to be but that prayer can
transform us, guide us and help us to accept things we just do not
understand.  I am praying for you and your brother.<br>
<br>
Please keep us updated when you can. Tell Mike there are many
pulling for him.<img src="i/expressions/heart.gif" border="0">
 

EnergyGal

New member
I would not do anything until you speak to the CF doctors. Then ask them what are the chances of him coming off on his own vs tracheostomy? If he has a bad infection can they keep him on the ventilator until he is over the infection if that is at all possible? If so, that is what I would do for your brother. I would also ask if they can wean him slowly down on the sedation meds so he can communicate his true feelings. He would not be able to be weaned off totally as it is very difficult being on a ventilator without sedation.

I feel so much for you and all you have to do to keep your brother alive but remember you are such a wonderful sister (I wish you were my sister) and your brother must love you so much and I am sure he respects your decision.

If you do speak to your brother, I would be as gentle as you can with your wording. When on sedation medication the mind becomes confused at times. I would speak straight forward in short sentences while holding his hand and do whatever you can to give as much love as you can. I say fight to the end.
 

anonymous

New member
I agree. I don't want anyone to keep push me into making any kind of decision and they are making me feel like there is a timeline we have to follow.
I appreciate the ICU docs feelings and opinions, however, although they are docs they too are human (well most of them I think ; ) ) and all humans make mistakes and wrong assesments. Even if they are right, I need to know I have done everything possible to carry out Mike's wishes.
I trust the CF docs. I feel that they know this disease inside and out and know Mike medically. The CF clinic and all of the nurses and docs have been very supportive and all of them, even the front desk clerks have come by to pray for Mike.
I have told the ICU docs what Mike wants and what we want to do, and they are not listening...at least for the most part. I told them yesterday I wanted to try to wean him off of the Vent and see what happens and how he tolerates it. They are not carrying out what the CF doc and I spoke about yesterday. It's like HELLO?? Do I have to spell it out for you people?? Maybe if I only use "little words" you can better understand what I am saying...
See, at least if we try that, even if it doesn't work, then I will know we have done everything we can to carry out what Mike wants. Is that so hard for these people to understand??
 

anonymous

New member
Risa,
I have spoken to the CF docs about a trach. They have said it invites alot of infection, and CF patients typically don't thrive on a trach. He said he would consider however, a bipap. Mike would have to tolerate his oxygen at aprox 40% for 24 hours before that could happen. He is down to 65% right now from his 80% on Sat. and tolerating that ok.
Although I know without a transplant Mike probably would not make it much past a few months. But Mike would want that chance, I just know it.
I am going to head back up there in a little bit and explain AGAIN to these docs what we want. I pray they listen.
 

EnergyGal

New member
I like his CF doctors. I will continue to pray for your Brother Mike and for you as well. I am sorry about the trach, I was thinking from a different perspective. If Bipap can help that would be great. I hope that will work. You are the BEST!
 

Scarlett81

New member
First off, as others said, I really am proud of you. You are being so strong and so caring. You're his best ally right now.

If you really believe in your heart that he would say-I want to fight anyway I can-then that's what you should do for him b/c he can't speak for himself right now. At least, that's what I think. If I was in his situation, and my husband knew I was a fighter, and this unexpected thing came up, I would hope he would do what I would want. (within reason) If he said no, bc he was scared, I would be upset. I think you should always try to go on what the patients wishes would be.

Having said that, in a fight-there is always a winner and a loser. So be prepared that even if you take on the battle, he may lose. Will you feel, even though he lost, I still did what he would have wanted? I still gave him a chance? Only you can answer that.

As for your understandable frustrations over the non-cf docs, it's so annoying that they just don't understand. But it will alwasy be that way. Just try to let those comments roll off your back right now. They don't know you, they don't know you've been along for this ride for a long time. It sounds like you need to have a good, open, frank talk with the cf docs. About this stage he's in, possible outcomes, and just to vent your frustrations over this. They'll understand better than anyone else.

Keep us updated on him and yourself.
 

Diane

New member
Kim,
Let me start by saying that whate ever Mike wants is what Mike should get. It's his choice not the doctors. If i were in that position, i'd want MY wishes done, not what the doctor says is protocol.

Now for the second part.... My nurse told me a story about a girl with cf who was dieing. They said there was no hope and they asked my nurse to go and say her goodbyes because she wont last a few more days. WEll of coarse my nurse did go and say a few words to the girl and who would have guessed that very same girl walked out of that hospital a few weeks later. I love that story and makes me realize all hope is NEVER lost. I'll keep you and Mike in my prayers <img src="i/expressions/rose.gif" border="0">
 

Emily65Roses

New member
I just want to agree with Diane. I figure you have at least some clue of what he'd want, given that you're his sister. If not, ask him, and hand over a pen and pad for him to write on.

But don't do what the ICU docs want. Don't let them pressure you, this is your brother's life.

If HE wants off the vent, then do it. If HE wants to stay on, then keep him on it. It's his life, his body, his CF, and they should be doing what he wants.

On a related but irrelevant note, I HATE WHEN PEOPLE THINK THEY KNOW BETTER THAN US/OUR LOVED ONES!!!!!!! CFers live with it their entire fracking lives. Your little medical degree doesn't mean you know sh*t. Often it means you know just that... SH*T! Even if you do know, you don't live with it, we do. And we're not morons! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Kay I'm done.
 
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