Protein powder and carb loading supplements

[Cados]

Hello everyone, im new to this forum, im a 20 year old male in Australia living with cystic fibrosis. I've said for a few years now i want to gain more weight and i want to gain muscle mass. I've invested a great deal of time into learning the best ways to go about about it. But the last couple of years have been hard, i think i've gained about 5kg (im on 61kg, 170cm tall). Now im determined to change my mind set and give myself the body i deserve. I'm hoping to hear from people people who have similar hopes or have achieved good results for help. I have also invested in some great amino charged WPI Protein Powder and Carb Loader. I need to know what sort of enzymes (creons) i require to properly absorb these products. They have high protein and high carbohydrates, but zero fats. I'm a little lost as i've always gone by the fat content to determine the enzyme amount. But if the protein and carb loader has no fats surely i don't need no enzymes? Any help is appreciated!
Thanks - Caden

 

[Twistofchaos]

Welcome to the forum!

Yes but something like Creon is composed of several components. Lipase the most well known one and it's for fat. But also Protease to break down protein and Amylase which does something with starch.
So fat alone is not the only grade of how much enzymes to take. KCal's probably give you a better estimate but it takes some common sense and experimentation to see. For example I'll take about 1 Creon10K capsule per 200KCal but if a product is very high in fat or protein then I'll likely double that. So with a protein shake with say 25grams of protein and probably only 100KCal or so I still take atleast 2 capsules. YMMV.

5kg is not so much indeed but I guess it depends a lot on how underweight and crappy your diet was before starting, how active you already were and so on. Do you train your legs hard? I was terribly underweight and would just do things like run/walk and rollerblade all my life so I could put on roughly 10kg relatively quickly to get upto about 64kg at 174cm where I am now and is very similair to you relative to height. And it never got much more for me and so I got stuck quickly on bodyweight too. But I did still fill out some and more importantly I still got MUCH stronger.
I think it might have something to do with having been underweight a long time, also at critical moments like at the end of my puberty and so relatively low testosteron levels won't really allow much more than that.

If it's very important to you there are solutions like hormone replacement therapy. But for me it's enough. Because my head won't grow any bigger, I have a terribly small frame and it's not comfortable to slap another 5-10kg of muscle onto that.

I like to take my whey spread out across the day after a regular meal to slow it's absorbtion and hopefully have it "blend in" to reduce the load on my digestive system and avoid some of the better known protein shake side effects in combination with cf side effects.. Could go to jail for those.

 

[Cados]

Thanks for you response!

I've recently done some research and yes it seems i have to take more than the fat in account. Okay so i am on Creon 40k and i think per serve protein is like 35g and the carb loader is about 50g. Looking at that then i assume ill need to take 1 or 2 40k to absorb it, but as you said, ill look at the kcal and take that into account.

Yeah i wasn't very happy with 5kg in 2 years, but i tried to look positively, at least i didnt lose weight, etc. But ideally i'd like to make my new start now put on a lot more muscle. Even though i have increased my eating in all areas, i have also increased exercise a lot, now burning heaps. So its a very tough balance as im sure you are aware. As you have stated, i too am struggling now but have definitely noticed a strength increase, even though my lung function has decreased, and i picked up pseudomonas i have a better exercise tolerance than i did 2 years ago. My gains were also slow as i was finishing my last year of high school and have now started a course in architectural drafting, as well as working 15-25 hours a week casual. The time doesn't really permit but i really want to make a change to my lifestyle now. I used to miss weekends for training because i would go out and get drunk 2-3 times a week, as part of my change the last couple of months i've reduced it to once every couple of weekends. Haven't been out or drank any alcohol for 3 weeks nearly. The way i see it is im going to get more sleep time then more time to train and eat this way (as well as avoiding the thick cigarette smoke around night clubs).

It is definitely not important enough to consider hormone replacement or anything illegal haha. I'd rather battle it out for years legally learn the right way. I know what you mean about spreading out the whey. Sometimes i feel like i've eaten so much my digestive system, stomach and all just aches and im bloated from eating. The supplements really save time and help with calorie intake. I will take the supplements and creon and experiment a little, thanks for the help!

 

[triples15]

Hi Caden,

I'm certainly not an expert in this area but just wanted to chime in regarding the concern about whey and digestion etc. I use a vegan protein powder that has plant based protein as opposed to whey. It is surprisingly yummy (in my opinion). It also contains 8 billion probiotics per serving, so in theory, should actually aid in digestion.

Anyway, in case you're interested it's called True Vitality. It comes in chocolate, vanilla, and unflavored. I use the chocolate and mix it with Soy or Rice Dream ice cream and some almond milk. It doesn't sound great, but really I do find it pretty tasty! Here is a link. It is MUCH cheaper to order online as opposed to my local health food store

http://www.swansonvitamins.com/gree...lant-protein-shake-dha-chocolate-25-2-oz-pwdr

Good luck and take care!

Autumn 32 w/CF

PS. Welcome aboard!

 

[chelsie882003]

Hello everyone, im new to this forum, im a 20 year old male in Australia living with cystic fibrosis. I've said for a few years now i want to gain more weight and i want to gain muscle mass. I've invested a great deal of time into learning the best ways to go about about it. But the last couple of years have been hard, i think i've gained about 5kg (im on 61kg, 170cm tall). Now im determined to change my mind set and give myself the body i deserve. I'm hoping to hear from people people who have similar hopes or have achieved good results for help. I have also invested in some great amino charged WPI Protein Powder and Carb Loader. I need to know what sort of enzymes (creons) i require to properly absorb these products. They have high protein and high carbohydrates, but zero fats. I'm a little lost as i've always gone by the fat content to determine the enzyme amount. But if the protein and carb loader has no fats surely i don't need no enzymes? Any help is appreciated!
Thanks - Caden

"Hey My name is Chelsie and im 24 Female and i live in New Mexico. I have CFRD(Cystic Fibrosis Related Diabetes) it is really hard to work with both of these issues because you have to gain weight for having CF and then you have to watch what you eat being a diabetic, well i go to the gym 6days a week for about an hour, i buy this protein stuff at GNC or Vitamin Shop, its called Syntha-6. I went from being 111-119 in like 2 months. So its been helping me alot to gain weight, and on top of the that i also have muscle weight as well. Give it a try, Syntha-6 is a little expensive but its been working for me"

 

[briarrose]

There is an adult with cf living in the UK who is in spectacular physical shape and gives great advice to others with cf. His name is Ben Smudge and you can probably search for him. I bet he would have some great advice for you. Good luck!

 

[knowitall]

^^^^ His name is Ben MUDGE. There is also another bodybuilder in the UK, Jonny Pop Simpson who is quite remarkable. Coming from 37% FEV1 to 70% reverse damage and doing the impossible. Mudge has a very mild phenotype, so it hard for me to look up to him as "amazing" by any means. I mean no disrespect, but plain and simple his CF is a lot milder.

If you're Carb loading and using Protein supplements take maybe 1 enzymes which was recommended to me by my dietitian. Since CF'ers don't really have issues with carbs and or protein so much as fat. Adjust as needed based on how your stools are. If you want to cut to the chase and not waste money, check out what the pros use www.truenutrition.com. If you want to light a fire under your weight gain, energy and so much more look at D Aspartic Acid. It boosts testosterone in a safe manner. I spoke with my endocrinologist about using it and she had no issues with, nor did my CF docs. You'd want to take 3 grams per day, for 3-4 weeks and then go off for a month. True Nutrition is actually the only place I've found it in capsules, so it is convenient and reasonably priced as well. The powders are VERY sower and can eat your tooth enamel so I opt for the capsules makes life easy. Tid bit for you, Aspartic Acid is what Kalydeco uses to replace the missing amino acid in G551D CF'er. But, alas don't get any ideas that taking D-Aspartic Acid will correct your CF defect, unfortunately it isn't the simple.

 

[Cados]

Thanks for you response Autumn! The product sounds good, are you pancreatic insufficient also? If so are Creons required? I like the sound of the probiotics as well, nice added bonus as some protein powders ive tried can upset the stomach.

Hi Chelsie, thanks for the reply. This is something that i fear i will have to watch for soon too as i currently have slight glucose impairment. They believe maybe 5-10 years CF diabetes will hit me. Are you pancreatic insufficient? If so what Creon amount was required? Your gains sound quite good, i hope that i can achieve some proper results myself soon.

Thanks briarrose, i found Ben in an article a few months ago and have messaged him but yet to hear, i believe his help would be great.

Thanks for the response knowitall, i did not know that about Ben, i wasn't actually sure how badly he was affected i only remember seeing he had a low lung function at one stage. I have not heard of Jonny Pop Simpson, but i will certainly have a look. Yeah im going to experiment with 1 or 2 enzymes, what strength were yours? My creons are 40k so perhaps just 1 might do. Its interesting as i always believed fats the concern but it seems they are just a main concern and proteins and carbs should be looked at. Maybe the production of the different enzymes in the body differs or is even dependant on the mutation? I haven't of heard of this D Aspartic Acid. Although this worries me slightly because aspartic acid is one of the 2 things that makes up aspartame, known to be quite unsafe for regular consumption. Interesting about the aspartic acid in Kalydeco, i was unaware of that. If it was that simple i think we would all be doing it lol.

 

[knowitall]

My enzymes were 20K IU so your estimate is on spot. Mutation has a lot to do with it. It depends if the SLC4A8 gene is also corrupted or not. If it isn't you'll have much better absorption. CFTR is only half the picture, but the CFF won't talk about SLC4A8. Sheep. Anyhow.. let's look at it this way Chloride is caustic on it's own, but NaCl is essential to human life, so as Aspartic Acid and Phenylalanine make aspartame, they're separately also both essential to human life. Supplementing with D-Aspartic Acid is quite safe. I'm here to get you to research, not to give you the answers so do your research and make your own informed decisions. I can tell you I've been a hard gainer all my life, record weight was 112, I started on D-Aspartic Acid, with lifting and gained 20lbs in a month and 10% FEV1. I'll take those "odds".

 

[Cados]

Ok thanks, i'll see how i go with the enzymes. I'm keen to look into this D Aspartic Acid also, i will be asking my doctors about this at the next outpatient visit in a couple of weeks. Wow 20lbs as well as increased FEV1, thats awesome! Was there anything else you took in conjunction with the aspartic acid? Such as a certain protein powder, carb loader, creatine, etc? Because whatever you did it sure worked

 

[goherbs87654]

Hi Cados, I would like to share something to you. I have a relative who has the same condition as yours, and yes, he is desperate to get the body he deserves. Anyway, he stopped taking and buying expensive stuffs and resorted to natural remedies like herbs and herbal supplements. I am not sure though what are his exact ways, but that is what he did. I hope this can be an eye opener to you.

 

[Cados]

Thanks for the responsegoherbs! I'm beginning to open my mind to other options, so its interesting you say this. If it is something that has worked for him and others alike i believe it would be worth my time doing some research.

 

[Twistofchaos]

Just want to add that the problem with soy and other types of vegetarian protein compared to protein comming from dairy and meat/fish is that the biological value is much lower.
There are a standard 20 amino acids found in protein in food and how much of each is present varies a lot depending on the source.
As a vegetarian you'll have a real hard time combining many different types of food to get a similarly complete protein profile as for example can be found in Whey which is very complete. As well as having to almost double your required protein numbers.
Lately Whey isolates seem to become almost as cheap as concentrates though (isolates are supposedly of slightly higher quality and contain less lactose and stuff) so there's room for experimentation.

 

[Cados]

Thanks for the reply Twistofchaos, i have read something about that i think. I suppose it comes down to making the most of all protein sources. I take protein powder, lots of milk, yogurt, chicken, fish, steak and other assorted meats. I don't eat much egg (trying to adjust to the taste! haha!) or many vegetarian protein sources apart from tofu. I'm constantly trying to mix it up and create various combinations.

 

[h.hulk73]

Welcome to the forum!

Yes but something like Creon is composed of several components. Lipase the most well known one and it's for fat. But also Protease to break down protein and Amylase which does something with starch.
So fat alone is not the only grade of how much enzymes to take. KCal's probably give you a better estimate but it takes some common sense and experimentation to see. For example I'll take about 1 Creon10K capsule per 200KCal but if a product is very high in fat or protein then I'll likely double that. So with a protein shakes with say 25grams of protein and probably only 100KCal or so I still take atleast 2 capsules. YMMV.

5kg is not so much indeed but I guess it depends a lot on how underweight and crappy your diet was before starting, how active you already were and so on. Do you train your legs hard? I was terribly underweight and would just do things like run/walk and rollerblade all my life so I could put on roughly 10kg relatively quickly to get upto about 64kg at 174cm where I am now and is very similair to you relative to height. And it never got much more for me and so I got stuck quickly on bodyweight too. But I did still fill out some and more importantly I still got MUCH stronger.
I think it might have something to do with having been underweight a long time, also at critical moments like at the end of my puberty and so relatively low testosteron levels won't really allow much more than that.

If it's very important to you there are solutions like hormone replacement therapy. But for me it's enough. Because my head won't grow any bigger, I have a terribly small frame and it's not comfortable to slap another 5-10kg of muscle onto that.

I like to take my whey spread out across the day after a regular meal to slow it's absorbtion and hopefully have it "blend in" to reduce the load on my digestive system and avoid some of the better known protein shake side effects in combination with cf side effects.. Could go to jail for those.

I would not recommend using protein shakes. It is best to use a natural products: eggs, fish, meat and others, which contain lots of protein.

 

[Twistofchaos]

I would not recommend using protein shakes. It is best to use a natural products: eggs, fish, meat and others, which contain lots of protein.

Nice bump. Yes in theory "real food" is better but: I can't afford 2+ kg of meat and fish a day. Nor do I want to and while there's plenty things wrong with the dairy industry as well to get the bulk of my protein through whey seems more ethical.

Oh well since that 2013 post I did gain a very decent amount of muscle and strength still. From what I believe supplementing with NAC, upping my fat and vit D3 intake (which up my testosteron) have a significant part in that.

 

[David Smith]

I use Gold Standard Whey Protein for muscle building. It's great. You can read the full review here: http://goldstandardwheyreview.com/