request for information on invasive aspergillosis in cf patients

Ryan Wallace

New member
My doctor has diagnosed me with a type of aspergillosis infection called 'invasive aspergillosis'. What I'm reading on the internet for that form of aspergillosis, is that it is very bad.

That it is very difficult to treat and has a 50 to 80% mortality rate.

Also, my doctor has me on oral itraconazole, and I have read that due to insufficency that is not a recommended treatment for CF patients.

Can someone confirm this information or provide more information about this condition so I can be proactive.

I realize that it is also incredibly rare in CF patients, so I wont be that surprised if no one can tell me anything. However, if someone can give me good information, I really appreciate it.
 

triples15

Super Moderator
Hello and welcome Ryan!

I'm sorry, I don't have any info on invasive aspergillosis. I do know that many members here do (or have) cultured aspergillosis, but I'm not sure about "invasive". Weekends are usually a bit quieter around here, so I hope you will still get some good responses in the next few days.

I'm sorry you are dealing with this, I'm sure it is beyond scary with everything you are reading. I also hope, as you mentioned, that your doctor is going to treat it aggressively.

I hope you feel comfortable to stick around here and ask whatever questions you have!

Take care,

Autumn 34 w/cf
 

triples15

Super Moderator
Believing,

I take out curse words where I see them. That doesn't mean we catch all of them. As moderators, editing posts when necessary is our one of responsibilities. We try to keep swearing off the forums. We would never edit something because we personally "do not like it". If you'd like to talk more then let's continue this privately. This thread needs to stay on the point and is becoming very negative.

Thanks,

Autumn
 

nmw0615

New member
Hi Ryan,

I grow aspergillosis, although I've never heard it called invasive. I used to be on itraconazole, but now take voriconazole for it. This has kept it controlled for the most part, although I'm not sure if I have invasive aspergillosis. I do know I actually have an allergy to the fungus, and that's where most of my problems with it come from. I have to treat the inflammation from the allergic reaction almost as often as treating the fungus itself.
 

jaimers

Super Moderator
Hi Ryan,
welcome to the forums! I'm so sorry you have to deal with what sounds like a more rare strain of aspergillosis. As someone mentioned it can be slower on the weekends and if someone doesn't have specific answers for you they don't always feel comfortable posting so it may sometimes limit the replies. That being said, I don't have any specific personal experience for you but found some older threads that I have linked below where someone mentioned "invasive aspergillosis" specifically. They responses there included some other medication names that could be options to mention to your doctor.

http://forum.cysticfibrosis.com/threads/16443-Amphotericin?highlight=Invasive+aspergillosis

http://forum.cysticfibrosis.com/threads/3334-aspergillus?highlight=Invasive+aspergillosis

Good luck!
 
K

kenna2

Guest
I'm actually battling that right now. I was treated with Voriconazole about a two years ago and my PFT's got better. It's a condition you want to stay on top of because I was taken off of it since it cleared but am back on meds again. I think if I would have stayed on it would have stayed under control. It did take about 6 months for me to see an improvement. Best of Luck! I'm fighting with ya!
 

Ryan Wallace

New member
Thank you for your responses. No worries about things being slow on the weekend, or slow at all. I know getting any kind of response on a forum can be a long shot, and have managed expectations.

Part of why I am posting is also because my doctors have stumbled a lot in the diagnosis process getting to this point, with me being admitted with hemoptysis and released three times in five weeks before they even considered aspergilliosis. They knew after the first admission I had aspergilliosis but they didn't bother to type it because its not usually dangerous in most CF patients ... it took until the third admission for them to consider typing it ... then after they started the typing process, the PA said she couldn't remember them ever having a CF patient with it. Not really very good there.

So, I'm not just going to leave my doctor to be in charge of this. Right now, I'm trying to gather as much info as I can and learn as much as I can so I can do whatever needs to be done to help me fight this. I have no intention of loosing.

Kenna - thank you very much for your words. I had read that voriconazole was very effective against invasive aspergilliosis in CF patients, so this is good info. Definately something to discuss with my doctor.

I am also very glad to hear of a patient who has been fighting successfully for two years. It means I may have time to gather information and take action - the information on more seriously immune compromised patients with the disease, such as cancer patients, was very terrifying ... with many dying within just a few weeks of diagnosis. Information on CF Patients, was much less extensive. One study from the late 90's that I read said that at the point the paper had been written, only 10 CF patients world wide had been diagnosed with the condition, most of whom had died.

Thanks again. Again, any info is welcome and appreciated - no matter how little, it all counts.
 
K

kenna2

Guest
I have an Infectious Disease doctor who manages my aspergillus medication. They see and deal with it more than CF doctors do. It also works as a second opinion too.
 

Ryan Wallace

New member
Initially when they told me they were testing for invasive aspergilliosis, they told me they would switch me over to an infectious disease doctor if it came back positive ... but then they didn't.

At my current clinic/hospital, who my doctor is changes all the time and each doctor is able to act completely independently of the others with no oversite and no one actually 'in charge' ... so the plan to switch to the infectious disease doctor was made with one of my docs, and then the decision not to was made by another. So the 'reason' the plan changed is because I changed doctors and the new doctor just wanted to do things different. I'm sure the next time I go in, I'll have a different doctor and he'll want to do something else.

In the past, my cystic fibrosis issues have been fairly routine ... my infections and treatment tend to always go the same ... so the fact that the clinic works this way wasn't a problem. They just had to do what they've always done. But now, where nothing is 'routine', I'm going to have to take charge and be the one coordinating my care - otherwise "team medicine" is going to get me killed.
 

Aboveallislove

Super Moderator
Hey Ryan,
Welcome! So sorry you have this to face. I wanted to throw out one more idea, which you likely already know, but in case not: You can search pubmed.com to see what medical research is out there. If you type in invasive aspergillosis cystic fibrosis you will get 72 different articles. You can read the titles and then click and get a summary. That might give you some insights on possible treatment options. If there are a few articles that look great and you want the full text send me a PM (that's Private Message and you can do by clicking my name and "send private message") and I'll try to help you figure out how to get a full copy. Also, I know I've read others on here say they have an infectious disease doctor so maybe you can even call now and get them to set up that appointment because it might take a few months to get in. Good luck and again, a warm welcome!
 
D

Dank

Guest
First, sorry that this diagnosis is upon you. I'll try to provide my experience here, but i think you may have to think a little outside the box and find what treatment works best for you. I'll provide my input here. My IGE levels have been abnormally high (5000-6000) for a few years now. They said I had an allergy to aspergillis. I asked all the questions like "where is it, what is it, how can i avoid it" and was promptly told, I cant. I was put on prednisone (starting at 40mg, then scaling back to 30, and then 20, and i've been slowly tapering off from 20..currently at 10mg) roughly 18 months ago and paired with voriconizole. I took the voriconizole for 3 months without any help or drop in IGE, and I was forwarded over to an allergist specialist. The allergist went through and gave me a standard allergy test, said they wanted to try to put me on Xolair, but it's not something they could easily prescribe. The costs are really high and the insurance has to agree upon bi-weekly treatments. The regimine for these shots was also pretty rough. So the more I got to reading about it the more I started to be uncomfortable with it. At the time I was switching jobs/insurances so I had to start the process over again, and was not getting anywhere far. I decided that based on my reading and the knowledge they presented me with, I didn't want to take the chance of using Xolair and limiting my immune system (which is how it works - it disables the allergic reaction that you body has to it). So I am probably suffering from some Aspergillis symptoms daily, but as of right now i don't have a way to fix it and I don't seem to notice much. Just wanted to share my experience with the medication you listed and aspergillis. Best of luck!
 

alexnw

New member
Aspergillosis

I have had a similar experience to the previous post, dealing with acute bronco-pulmonary aspergillosis. The initial treatment after a final diagnosis was with itraconazole and prednisone. The anti-fungal did nothing, but the prednisone kept it under control. Every time we attempted to taper down the prednisone dosage the ABPA flared up again.

Similar to to the previous post, Xolair was suggested. I was referred to an allergist to get approval and went on Xolair early 2014. It has been the answer. I was tapered off the steroids by mid-2014 and have been ABPA free since then. The prednisone had taken its toll on my adrenal system and my ability to fight infection. It took 9 months before my cortisol levels returned to normal and no longer have to be on antibiotics all the time like I was when I was on the prednisone.

In short, the Xolair was worth it. It's expensive but there is financial help you can get for up to $4000 of the co-pay costs from the manufacturer (not means tested). It hasnt just kept away the ABPA for me, but it has also taken me off the prednisone, helping my immune system and allowed me to get my blood sugar levels back to normal.

This was just my story - hope it helps.

Male, aged 53, F508del D1125H
 

Ryan Wallace

New member
Invasive Aspergilliosis (IA) is a different form of aspergillus than most CF Patients aquire or are familiar with. For most CF Patients, they get what is called non-invasive aspergillus. It typically just sits in their system and shows up on cultures and doesn't do much. Occasionally it will form an aspergyloma, or ball of aspergillus that fills a damaged pocket of the lung, but even those are typically harmless and go untreated. At worst, most CF patients have an allergic issue to aspergillus, and need to be put on prednisone or some other drug to combat that allergy - as Alexnw and Dank described.

IA is a totally different ball game. Rather than sit there being nice and benign and causing allergic symptoms, the aspergillus itself is the problem. It aggressively grows through your lungs, destroying lung tissue and occasionally growing into blood vessels and opening them up to cause bleeding. In addition to simply damaging your lungs and reducing lung function, which is bad enough, if it happens to grow through a major blood vessel you can have very serious and potentially fatal complications in a very short time period.

In CF Patients it is incredibly rare, as it typically only affects people who are seriously immuno compromised, such as some types of cancer patients. In cancer patients its so aggressive that they often die within weeks, sometimes before the infection can even be identified. From the information I've been able to collect so far, in CF Patients it has a much slower growth pattern, probably because the CF Patient has a higher immune system that can keep it at bay longer, but it is not easily defeated and can be a long ongoing battle. Particularly since it can sometimes be very resistant to the drugs that are used on it. From what I've read, it sounds like Voriconozole is one of the more effective drugs in CF patients.

Long term mortality is high if an effective drug treatment can't be found, because no matter how slow its growing, eventually it will expose the wrong blood vessel(s) or otherwise do enough damage to greatly reduce lifespan. Unfortunately, for those with this condition, as long as its growing you don't really know when or if its going to grow into a blood vessel and cause hemoptysis - or how severe that will be.

I have found some info on another presentation of IA, but I've only seen mentioned briefly in a few places so I don't know much about it. Apparantly, in some cases, the patient can have a benign aspergyloma and then IA can exist at the outer edge of the aspergyloma. My understanding is that its a symbiotic relationship, where the aspergyloma creates the immune conditions at its outer edge that allow the IA to exist, and the IA slowly erodes the lung and makes more space for aspergyloma to grow into. From what I can gather, this form is less dangerous, because the IA can't grow very far beyond the aspergyloma, but I'm not really sure about that.

Much of my info about this presentation of IA is pieced together or deduced from limited information, so better information about this kind would be greatly appreciated. Particularly since I believe this is the kind my doctor thinks I have, although I'm not sure as he's being very vague and evasive right now about the diagnosis, which in my experience means he doesn't really know very much about IA, he just knows the text book warning signs and treatment, and is trying to give me enough info to pacify me long enough for the treatment to work and for me to stop asking questions he doesn't know the answer too.
 

Printer

Active member
Ryan:

I should have asked this earlier but are you being seen at an APPROVED CF CENTER by an CYSTIC FIBROSIS SPECIALIST?

Secondly, the WORST place to find CF info is on the internet. Call or email your CF Doctor and get CORRECT answers from him/her.

Bill
 

triples15

Super Moderator
Hi Ryan,

Because it's late at night, I'm guilty of just skimming the replies of this thread. I normally read thoroughly before respond, so I apologize if this is redundant or even irrelevant.

I know that you're really seeking relevant info quickly, so I wanted to mention that with many insurance policies you don't need a referral to see a specialist. So it might not hurt for you to seek out your own infectious disease specialist and see if you can get in, as opposed to waiting til you get the luck of the draw with a doctor at your clinic that is willing to refer you. A second opinion never hurts. :)

Take Care and good luck to you!

Autumn
 

Ryan Wallace

New member
Bill,

Yes. I am going to an 'approved' CF Center and I am being treated by a CF Pulmonary Specialist. However, that doesn't mean they know everything or are experts in all things, they are human after all. They tend to be very good as long as everything is a common CF issue with text book presentation and treatment. As soon as we get outside of that, then it starts to fall apart.

Also, I've asked the doctor for current material, and so far he hasn't really had anything to give me. But even if he did, I'm not going to stop there. For me, that would be like going to buy a new car and trusting the car dealer to provide you all the info you need about cars. I'm not about to blindly put my life in someone elses hands. Just because someone has MD after their name doesn't mean they always get it right. In fact, medical information is evolving all the time, so even the best doctors are always behind.

For example, a few years ago I was diagnosed as pre-diabetic. The nutritionist at the CF Center asked me to replace the sugar in my diet with alternatives as much as possible. I did this. Within a month or so I started experiencing neurological symptoms. I was moving around in a haze. The world felt kind of funny, and I would have a hard time remembering what I was doing, I couldn't concentrate, and sometimes did weird things like put my cell phone in the freezer. It was like I was high, drunk, or senile.

When I talked to the CF Center about it, they went through several different things, but ultimately said they didn't know and said it wasn't a CF problem. I started doing my own problem solving, and when I talked to a diabetic who had previously had similar symptoms that had been caused by a reaction to aspertame, I was able to focus my research on the affects of artificial sweetners. I found a lot of information - some reliable and some not, but its all about knowing how to tell the difference.

In my case, it turned out that I don't have a problem with aspertame, but I do have a reaction to sucralose - which isn't all that uncommon. I removed sucralose from my diet, my symptoms went away, and I was able to educate the nutritionalist about these issues. Hopefully the next time they have a patient who has these symptoms, which isn't out of the realm of possibility, they can help them rather than throw up their hands and say 'not my problem'.

That is not the only time I've had doctors make mistakes or force me to be my own doctor. While not CF Center related, my grand father was diagnosed with dementia and suffered from it for almost ten years, until my uncle did his own research and found out about hydrocephalus and saw that it fit my grand fathers symptoms better. He ultimately had to take my grand father to a different doctor who would listen to him before they got my grandfather properly treated - by then he'd had hydrocephalus for so long that permanent damage had been done, but at least he gained some level of himself back. He had been misdiangosed for a decade and it took a non doctor, doing research on the internet, to get the correct diagnosis.

To me, my doctor is an expert advisor who I consult about making health decisions, but I must decide whether or not to trust his advice or if I need to go to someone else who might know better. Educating myself as much as I can, including going beyond the scope of information he might provide me, is the only way to do that.

Autumn -
Unfortunately, my insurance does require a referral to see a specialist. Right now I'm simply collecting info and educating myself, so that I am better prepared when I see my doctor next week. Depending on how I feel about the situation after that, I may try to get my GP to give me a referral to a different doctor ... either an infectious disease specialist or a different CF Center.
 
D

Dank

Guest
I wasn't aware of the differences between Invasive and non, I didn't know there was two types - I appreciate your conclusive explanation.

I think we have similar mindsets in regards to our care and health, and so I wish you the best on your journey for knowledge. If you could share what you find, others down the road may find this thread using the search utility and it may help them in the same situation. Good luck to you, breathe easy.
 

Printer

Active member
Ryan:

I am 75 and dx at 47. I am "the most mis-diagnosed person in the world. I understand and I feel your pain. If, as you stated, you consider your CF Specialist as a "car salesman" then I would tell you to get a new Doctor. It has taken a few tries but I now have a CF Doctor who I (really) trust with my life. He has a personal goal of attending my 80th birthday party.

I know that in some parts of the US, CF Centers are few and far apart. My suggestion is that you find a CF Specialist who you believe is not a "car salesman" and who both knows more than you do and has your best interest at heart.

Bill
 

Ratatosk

Administrator
Staff member
Unfortunately, not all cf clinics are alike despite accreditation. We have a cf clinic in our community; however, they are more reactive than proactive. Our local cf doctors don't recommend doing cpt/vest treatments unless there are symptoms and with children, once symptoms are gone, they suggest stopping. We also had issues with their lack of concern with cross contamination. Small crowded waiting room, a play area for children and instead of being assigned an exam room for the doctors and clinic staff to visit with you, patients wcf went from room to room to see them instead. Was a bit unnerving.

We travel to the city about 250 miles away to a different cf clinic.

Hopefully those who've had similar issues with invasive aspergillosis, can give you some suggestions regarding treatments, care. I do know there were some individuals who either travelled for care, or their clinic consulted with those clinics for treatment options.
 

Rachie

New member
Hi, I have been treated successfully for Aspegillus with IV caspofungin and oral Posaconazole. These are very expensive unfortunately but I'm in the UK at a specialist centre, so the NHS pays. Not sure how it works with your insurance system. Intraconazole was not as effective for me and Vori had too many side effects.
 
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