A clarification of my own views.

anonymous

New member
Cepaciagal I just have to say that I really admire you for your outlook. You always seem to give concise answers to questions, only mentioning your own problems when it is relevant. Also, you obviously have a great deal of additional medical problems that most of us do not have, but you seem very grounded, with a good grasp on what counts. I dont know, I just wanted to say that!

Caitlin
 

anonymous

New member
Ditto to what Caitlin said-your attitude encourages me too<img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif" border="0">
 

JustDucky

New member
Thank you both for your kind words...I really appreciate them!! Yeah, I definitely have other serious medical issues to deal with along with the CF, but I feel it hasn't changed who I am except my strength and the ability to get through each hurdle one by one. Even as a kid, I was always the optimist, always looked for the good or hoped for any positive to come out of bad situations. When I developed these diseases, (all within a span of 10 years) I think my personality helped me through some really tough times...I won't kid you, I did at times feel like giving up, especially when things seemed really bleak, when everything seemed to gang up on me....pneumonia, more weakness, sinus issues and surgery all at once. I know this is funny, but sometimes I compare myself to an old car I used to have...sometimes the muffler needed replacement, then a few months later the carburator needed to be fixed, then the alternator....those things I just dealt with as they came, a few months in between car repairs were okay and easier to deal with. But, when the transmission went, the tires went bald and my entire exhaust fell on the road all within a few days, I felt overwhelmed. I know the human body isn't a car, but my scenerio and issues that sometimes comes up makes me think of that old car LOL! I just deal with the most pressing issues first, then the next and so forth....there is no way I can try to even deal with all of them at once. I would be in a psyche ward if I tried that. A great support system also helps...there are so many wonderful people out there who have listened to me during my roughest times and are so compassionate and understanding, I swear sometimes that is all it takes to pull me out of the darkness and back into life.
Thank you all for being there, you are great! Hugs, Jenn aka Cepaciagal <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0">
 

WinAce

New member
<blockquote>Quote<br><hr> <i>Originally posted by 65rosessamurai</i>
Unfortunately, your view HAS contradicted someone!... I personally believe that your general statement needs correcting, because it seems to me your point of veiw lacks additional facts! <hr></blockquote>

It's clearly a philosophical, not a factual issue when I argue "atypical CF" outcomes shouldn't be tossed in with those of <i>typical</i> CF.

By the clinical definition of the disease, of course it's all CF; but by how it affects people, it may as well be two different illnesses. (The same applies, I feel, to cases of CF which manifest primarily in the liver, primarily in the lungs, or with other side effects. I don't see how a man dying of liver failure, but able to breathe normally, and a man whose liver appears normal dying of lung issues, have the "same" disease.)

By the way, I am not classing those who barely made it to adulthood (largely due to over-the-counter drugs like cough syrup), and then were diagnosed, with those who appear not to experience any major complications of CF at all.

I reject the "lifespan" calculations put out by the likes of the CF Foundation as cooked statistics. In my view, there is no such thing as a definitive statistic, but meaningful ones can take the form "X% of people born in Y are still alive" (and obviously, the "statistic" would be ever-changing).

I feel it is TOTALLY inappropriate to cite the expected lifespan of people who are just being born, and quite it as if it would apply to those whose lungs have been ravaged by 20, 30 years of CF that didn't have access to cutting-edge treatments.

As an aside, I don't appreciate your labelling my views as pessimistic. You don't know me, have read far fewer of my words than you may suppose, and--from my experience--it is a very reliable indicator of naivete when someone is quick to do that.

Many of the world's problems stem from our inability to give others the benefit of the doubt, and rush to judgment. I firmly believe that, when words can "be taken a thousand ways," this is often an indictment of the reader--much like the Rorschach ink blot can look like a million different things, none of which are really there.

<blockquote>Quote<br><hr><i>Originally posted by Grendel</i>
I would love to wear a t-shirt that says on one side: "CANCER is for wimps", and on the other it would read, "Try having Cystic Fibrosis, ... the only easy day was yesterday!" Or, ? Try having Cystic Fibrosis, we could eat Cancer for Lunch and still be hungary.? <hr></blockquote>

You may want to suggest that at <a target=new class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.TShirtHell.com">http://www.TShirtHell.com</a> (very, very wrong--but often hilarious--website).

I don't necessarily agree. The fact that cancer can recur makes it as insidious as CF, even if it's "cured" (remember that, after a transplant, our lung disease can recur too... despite seeming like a cure at the time). Chemotherapy is the equivalent of our highly toxic antibiotics, their pain--difficult to manage, even with narcotics--is like our extreme CF arthritis pain, and so on. Mounds of complications exist for both, some of which are like full illnesses in and of themselves...

The general rule that cancer hits older people isn't even a fact, as it can affect kids, just the same. I think, if you consider it deeply, CF, cancer and AIDS (among others) are diseases that suck about equally. Where one sucks less, it has other aspects that suck more, making up for it.

Cepaciagal,

You wouldn't happen to be from a minor planet near Betelgeuse, would you? I'm usually skeptical of that kind of stuff, but your handling of so many problems makes me wonder.
 

JustDucky

New member
LOL Allan! It wouldn't surprise me, sometimes I think I am alien LOL!!!...BTW, Betelgeuse is a beautiful star...I thought I recognized that name. When I was younger (okay, when I was a teenager) I went to Rensselaer Polytechnic Inst. for a summer program studying astronomy and I was able to use their telescopes, nothing like the ones you use in the back yard. It was beautiful to look at the stars through that thing....

People ask me all of the time how I deal with all of these problems...I guess I just do. I did'nt like the alternatives, just like last year when the docs said that if they didn't vent me, I would die. What else was I to do? I sure as hell wasn't ready to throw in the towel, I had so much to live for..even if I had to adapt to a whole new way of living. I had the normal reactions, fear, anger, alot of soul searching and then finally acceptance. But, as I said earlier, so many twists have been added...same feelings as before, but I think the vent was by far the scariest thing I had to deal with so far. For the longest time, I had this fear of my vent malfunctioning resulting in my demise, but these days, I just say hey, if it doesn't work, I can always bag myself until the problem is fixed. I also have a backup vent, so I am set, so I really don't have that anxiety anymore. It is something else when you have to depend on a piece of machinery just to stay alive. I still don't like it when docs manipulate my trache though, I have had so many problems with it, I am extremely protective of t hat sucker!!! My CF diagnosis is new, so I am still adjusting to everything and yes, it is so frustrating at times when things don't improve despite aggressive treatment. I too am dealing with B. cepacia, so many IV's...it's a wonder that my kidneys are even functioning at this point. But I am dealing with it the best I can at this point, along with the progressive muscle problems (I now require braces at night so my muscles don't get fixed in the same position- you should see the bruises I get from accidentally dinging my legs with those things! Being on coumadin does not help that either!!), and a really screwed up immune system, all of which I mentioned earlier. I just feel that there is no other way but to stay focused and not go out of my mind...that wouldn't help me, my kids or anyone for that matter.

I also feel that researching (besides a great support system) and keeping my mind active helps...people ask if it is good to know so much about what is going on with my body, I say absolutely...I hate being kept in the dark. I think that I would be much more anxious if I didn't know what was going on. My docs at this point automatically hand over copies of my tests so I can look at them. I know it is cliche, but knowledge is power, it is one of the things I have control over at this time. It has definitely made me much more aggressive as far as my healthcare goes.

I think what bothers me most about my disorders, particularly my muscular dystrophy is that it is autosomal dominant, meaning my kids have a 50 50 chance of getting this dystrophy. Unfortunately, they won't show signs of it until their 30's, just like me. I won't have them tested for the gene now, they are only 11 and 13....if they decide to get tested, it will be on their own terms when they get older. I know they must think about the possibility of getting this disease...it tears my heart out to think that I may have given them such an awful disease.
So, like I said, I just hang in there and go where life takes me.
Enough of my rambling, must be the late hour, I hope you are doing okay Allan...if I find pics from that minor planet I used to live on, I will share them with you LOL!!!
Hugs, Jenn <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0">
 
6

65rosessamurai

Guest
WinAce,

First, you did not specify in your "Philosophical" statement that "atypical" shouldn't be included in the statistics, the interpretation of your statement only indicated comparisons between "asymptomatic CF Patients" vs. "classic CF Patients" to a "crocodile attack", and a "bruise" as being an "injury" without further expansion on your statement. Therefore, This statement brought me to the conclusion, with your wording:

"should someone so asymptomatic that they can go safely go without medication for years, even be called a "CF patient"? If they should, with the description being technically accurate, should that matter when discussing "CF" (the disease which does kill people, and unites people who've been through it) life expectancies?"

That the statement gave no reference to statistics, only as your point of view to suggest asymptomatic CF Patients really aren't with CF. And, like statistics, if the way in which the results to your opinion are not explained, there will be a "skew" in the meaning.

I will apologize for offending you with my statement as you being pessimistic, but as my reply claimed, that is what my observation has been since the brief time I've been on this forum and reading your recent comment from this spool, which was your concern regarding the statistics of how many have passed away due to CF. Also, an earlier comment from a previous spool you commented on was in reference to schooling being a waste. I, on the other hand would encourage anyone and everyone to further their education as long as they have the desire and resources to. On the other hand, I've read the spool that was locked out, the "Poverty vs. CF" and didn't think you were being pessimistic, just offering your view based on your knowledge to one who seemed to have a point of view different from you.

However, on the contrary, I don't appreciate your comment suggesting I am naïve, because I explicitly indicated that from the readings of your post, I found it reflected your opinion of pessimism, I did not directly call you a pessimist, because of the fact I do not know you, nor have I been in your shoes; meaning I know I DON'T KNOW YOU.
Also, if the writer is going to be more explicit in what he is saying, the reader will have no doubt in his mind what is being said. As I stated, and hold as my opinion, the statement you had made did not have enough words to get your point across, therefore I expressed my view which you may have considered as "not in accordance" to what you stated. I noticed after my comment, someone else also caught your wording as meaning "does someone with CF really have CF?", which is pretty close to the conclusion I got, and as I mentioned several times, it had given no indication to your point regarding the statistics for CF patient's lifespan. But I disagree with your statement that CF should be classed as "two different illnesses", it's pretty much all the same, just different levels due to the gene mutation, right? However, I do agree that statistically speaking, it should be separated as "Very Serious" vs. "Mild" when they play with the numbers.
And, I am also not classing anyone who barely made it to adulthood and then diagnosed, with those who appear not to experience any major complications. I was referring to ones such as me, who was diagnosed at a young age, yet lives as your comment indicated, "someone so asymptomatic that they can go safely go without medication for years". How big of a percentage that is, I don't know, but I stated that you didn't clarify, therefore I felt my situation was what you were referring to, based on my circumstances.
I was referring to your "asymptomatic" patients who were diagnosed with CF, but never had the severity like most "classic CF Patients", which was based from the quote you had made. Granted, it was never clarified whether the "asymptomatic" was diagnosed after they went several years without medications or problems, or before they did. But your wording gave me thought that it was referring to situations similar to mine, in which the CF has been diagnosed, yet the CF Patient can go so long without maintenance. This was not clarified, either, therefore your comment became in comparison to an ink blot, taken one of 1,000 ways.
In conclusion, this is a synopsis as to how my opinion was made, as well as a reply to your statement. As before, I did not intend on attacking you, just pointing out that what you stated was not enough information, for which I got a different meaning to what you wanted to point out. I also put careful consideration into not attacking you, thus indicating that I do not know you, but it seems to me you took it that way anyhow.
So, if you want to put the last word in, you are welcome to. Instead of considering me as another "adversary", I wish you would consider my comments as feedback to your wording, hoping in the future you can be more proficient at it. I made my point, and will not go on any further with it, because I do not wish to spend my valuable time in debating any more as to what was said.
Regards
 

WinAce

New member
I conceded that the clinical definition would include anyone who had whatever CF was, according to doctors, at the time.

I suspect using it that way is misleading, much like our classifications of "race" (in that there's more variation within a supposedly single disease, or single "race," than between that and other races/diseases). The genetic diversity among two different white people can be far greater than the genetic diversity between a white and black man. The symptoms of "milder" strains of CF can be more similar to asthma, or other conditions that are not as overwhelmingly dangerous. Still other strains manifest themselves with cirrhosis or other complications that aren't even related to the lung damage.

I see clinical definitions as markedly unhelpful, except in research (to describe a specific problem such as a chloride channel gap, or the like).

So, nowhere did I suggest that asymptomatic patients don't have CF. As I wrote, I question the very use of the term when it comes to statistics, as something which is far too broad, much like using "injury from blunt trauma" to describe both car accident-induced crushed spines, and bruises.

When you think about, if one patient fell ill and had lung disease, another fell ill with liver disease, and a third didn't fall ill at all--and had a 102% FEV score when a car ran him over, with his only clinical symptom being a positive on a diagnostic test for that illness--it isn't really very helpful to label them all with the same disease. It's technically true, but somehow just doesn't make sense. I suppose I just belong to the medical school of thought that would label conditions based on symptoms and <i>outcomes</i>, not tests.

I don't take offense at far more ridiculous accusations than yours. I merely correct them, when they happen. Moreover, I'm generally entertained by them, especially when they're unfounded. And while I did say school can be a total waste of time, this is hardly disputed by anyone; the fact remains that you can learn more outside it than you would ever do on the inside. In some ways, school brings together a number of irrelevant factors that <i>detract</i> from studies, rather than enhance them. (Peer pressure, potential for drugs and ill-advised romance, and so on.) The false dichotomy you present between "furthering your education" and "not going to school" is just that, deceptive.

I've never heard of message board threads being referred to as "spools," by the way. You seem impressively fluent in English, but is it your first language?

Regards to you too.
 
6

65rosessamurai

Guest
WinAce,
This reply alone had moved me to believe you are not the kind of person I had depicted in this spool.

I also feel it was a compliment in the utilization of my language. Yes, I am an American, and English is my first language.
Since I had mostly been studying Japanese on my own, it has been self studying, thus, "continuance of Education". However, I did not go to a large college, nor was I exposed to such things as you mentioned that would detract from learning. (I had come across some of those elements elsewhere during my life, however)
However, I would find you do agree with the statement "continuance or furthering of Education", corrrect?
I think that because I have to speak two different languages, I have to be aware of the meaning, thus increasing or paying more attention to my native language.

Translating from English to Japanese is a tough gig, and my only problem is self motivation to study even more! (Spelling is tough too, if you haven't written in English long enough!)

I understand you are having a difficult time with your health. Best wishes and hopes for you to get better soon are with you.
Fred
 

WinAce

New member
I like education. I have a rather broad view of it that recognizes the value of skilled trades and general creativity as much as "book smarts." If I were to design a school, creativity and skillful implementation of novel ideas would be rewarded, quite probably more than rote memorization. (For instance, I would give students a test, and some general pointers, and have them figure out the answer. The best grades wouldn't necessarily be the ones that got it all right--which could just show blind adherence to a memorized formula, a useful skill but not the end-all of knowledge--rather, the answers that showed the most creativity and thought in being devised.)

Given the choice, I would probably learn a third language (I speak Russian, too, so I'm able to recognize someone influenced by some foreign languages)--or a musical instrument--before doing much else. The latter is not "education" per se, according to many, but it's darn cool to know, and from what I've seen, enhances your and others' lives more than any similar investment in time and effort.

Thanks for the good wishes. You have my regards, as well.
 
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