article in paper

littledebbie

New member
<h1>Assisted-suicide plan resurfaces</h1>

<h2>After a year in limbo, the issue still raises hackles, a Senate
committee finds.</h2>

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<h3>By Jim Sanders -- Bee Capitol Bureau</h3>

Published 12:01 am PDT Wednesday, June 21, 2006 <script type="text/javascript">var ppn='Page A3';if(ppv==1){ppn='<a href="/content/print_edition/#MAIN NEWS">'+ppn+'</a>';}document.write('Story appeared on '+ppn+' of The
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<div class="mimg"><img border="0" alt="" width="320" src=
"http://www.sacbee.com/static/rich_content_images/261354-suicide.jpg"
height="212">

Sandra Butler, who has terminal cancer, listens at a news
conference on assisted suicide as Dr. Nicholas Gideonse speaks.
<span>Sacramento Bee/Anne Chadwick Williams

<div class="clear"> </div>
</div>

<div id="storyBody" style=
" font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 13px;" class=
"storytext">Legislation to make California the second state to
allow doctor-assisted suicide by terminally ill patients returned
to the spotlight Tuesday after more than a year on a Capitol shelf.


Moral and ethical questions abounded in a nearly three-hour
informational hearing by the Senate Judiciary Committee, but one
thing was perfectly clear: The lengthy delay hasn't quieted
controversy.

Assemblywoman Patty Berg, D-Eureka, vowed to keep fighting
nonetheless.

"I believe in it with all my heart," she said of the
bill.

The committee is expected to vote on the measure next Tuesday. A
Senate floor vote could follow.

Senate President Pro Tem Don Perata, in a speech Monday to the
Sacramento Press Club, said he personally supports Assembly Bill
651 but will not push his Senate Democratic Caucus to do likewise.

"This is a personal thing that everybody must decide for
him- or herself," he said.

Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger has taken no position on AB 651 and
typically does not do so until legislation is in its final form and
passes the Legislature.

In a January appearance at the Press Club, however,
Schwarzenegger said doctor-assisted suicide is a difficult issue
that should be decided by voters.

"I personally think that this is a decision probably that
should go to the people, like the death penalty or other big
issues," he said.

Assemblyman Lloyd Levine, D-Van Nuys, who is teaming with Berg
on the bill, said it was coincidental that AB 651 resurfaced only
after ballots were cast in the June 6 primary.

But, ultimately, that might bolster prospects for the bill, he
said.

"Members are no longer locked in battle with one another,
so they may not be afraid that it's going to be used against
them," Levine said.

AB 651 would allow mentally competent patients who are not
expected to live for more than six months to obtain a prescription
for life-ending medication.

The legislation contains numerous requirements designed to
prevent a terminally ill patient from seeking life-ending
medication frivolously, impulsively or under duress.

The measure requires that two doctors agree on a patient's
prognosis, requires a 15-day waiting period, and mandates
counseling for patients who are not under hospice care.

Patients would have to administer the life-ending medication to
themselves.

Before Tuesday's hearing, Sandra Butler, a San Francisco woman
dying of lung cancer, appeared at a press conference to support the
bill.

"In the near future, I will reach the end of my days,"
she said. "It is my desire to die peacefully in the arms of my
loved ones, not in prolonged pain and agony."

Tuesday's Senate Judiciary Committee hearing wrestled with two
ethical questions -- whether AB 651 would affect the value that
society places on life, and whether it would conflict with a
doctor's legal or ethical duties.

Six bioethics and medical experts, chosen by supporters and
opponents of AB 651, were invited to testify.

Doctor-assisted suicide was proposed last year in the Assembly,
but opposition prompted Berg and Levine to abandon a floor vote
there and amend their proposal into AB 651, which was pending in
the Senate.

Supporters see physician-assisted suicide as a right-to-die
issue, while opponents argue it devalues life.

Dr. Ben Rich, a bioethicist from the University of California,
Davis, spoke in favor of AB 651 and said there is a big difference
between killing someone and letting that person die.

Rich dismissed claims that AB 651 would form a "slippery
slope" that gradually would expand the circumstances under
which physician-assisted suicide would be permitted.

"It's my proposition that there's a slippery slope every
bit as steep when you're talking about withholding and withdrawing
life-sustaining treatment from patients," he said.

Dr. Nicholas Gideonse, a doctor in Oregon, which currently
allows physician-assisted suicide, said the 8-year-old law has not
been abused.

"Prolonging a life deemed unwanted by the person living it,
because of the ravages of terminal illness, demeans life," he
said.

Critics of AB 651 argue that legalizing doctor-assisted suicide
could result in terminally ill patients seeking to end their lives
because they don't want to burden family members with their
care.

Attorney Susan Penney of the California Medical Association said
the proposed safeguards in AB 651 are not foolproof because they
require subjective decisions about mental competence, undue
influence and other factors.

"How will the profession be able to monitor whether or not
the ethical or legal obligations are being met?" she said.

Wesley Smith, a Castro Valley attorney and a consultant for the
International Task Force on Euthanasia and Assisted Suicide, cited
the Netherlands to support the slippery-slope argument.

"Indeed, since 1973 Dutch doctors have gone from killing
the terminally ill who ask for it, to the chronically ill who ask
for it, to the disabled who ask for it, to depressed people who
aren't even physically ill who ask for it," he said.
</div>
 

littledebbie

New member
I just want to state i am only posting it because I think it's a
topic that should be talked about and I'm glad when it gets some
time and attention.  I just thought it was interesting.  
 

Seana30

New member
Debbie,

What is your personally opinion on this topic? Do you believe it should be allowed? You never quite stated if you are for it or not.

I am totally for assisted suicide. We do not make our pets suffer, and have the choice to put them to sleep. I feel we as humans should also have this choice.

Seana
 

thelizardqueen

New member
I am completly for assisted suicide. Its your body, and you know what your wishes are and aren't. Why prolong the pain and suffering that you are going through, when the end result is the same? I say, that if you want this done, you should go ahead anyway. What right does someone else have to tell you its wrong? And that it shouldn't be done? The people that think that this is wrong - this is their opinion, and why should it count more then yours who is for assisted suicide? I think its pointless to preserve life that is at the point of death with no return. I'd rather be free of pain and suffering and be dead, then lieing in my own death waiting for it to happen.
 

Emily65Roses

New member
Let's see. I'm for it too, but only in specific cases like this. Terminal cancers, etc.

One, as Seana mentioned... how is it that pets are supposed to be below humans? But it's "humane" to put them down when they're dying. And even though we're stationed above them (I'm just going by popular theory), we can't do the same for ourselves? What the hell is that?

What bothers me most about this type of law... is that the people that are against it (and people that are deciding it)... AREN'T DYING. If you're not dying, and you think it should be illegal, then sorry, but your opinion means sh*t to me.
 

JazzysMom

New member
I am for it! I cant go into detail without rambling, but its along the same lines of the animal issues & what is/isnt humane!
 

Landy

New member
I guess I'm neither for it or against it. I would not be outraged if such laws were passed. I can see both sides of the issue. In many instances it sure would be the easy way out.
For me <i>personally</i> being a God believing/fearing person, I am not sure how things would come out for me 'on the other side' if I committed suicide.
I'm not trying to start a religion debate, just stating a point of view that others may not have thought of.
 

JazzysMom

New member
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>Lynda</b></i>

I guess I'm neither for it or against it. I would not be outraged if such laws were passed. I can see both sides of the issue. In many instances it sure would be the easy way out.

For me <i>personally</i> being a God believing/fearing person, I am not sure how things would come out for me 'on the other side' if I committed suicide.

I'm not trying to start a religion debate, just stating a point of view that others may not have thought of.</end quote></div>


I think many people would NOT do it for the same fear on the other side. For people like me that arent religious or arent concerned, we dont have that dilema!
 

Emily65Roses

New member
I had thought of it, Lynda. I know that's a big deciding factor for religious people. And that's fine. My thing is: If you don't want to because you're a god fearing/loving person, then rock it. Do what you want. But I don't think there should be laws <i><b>against</i></b> it. You believe in god, that's fine. I don't, so don't tell me what I can or can't do with myself. I don't like when one person's (or set of people's) beliefs dictates what happens to everyone, even though not <i>everyone</i> shares those beliefs. You know? <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0">
 

Seana30

New member
Okay....I don't mean to get off the initial topic here BUT..............

I don't believe when the goverment makes these type of desicions religion should play ANY part of it.

Religion and goverment are not suppose to mix. That is why we are not allowed to pray in school (which I personally agree with).

Just my opinion!!

Seana
 

Landy

New member
Emily, I agree--it should be up to the individual to make their own choice & like I said, I would not be outraged if assisted suicide was allowed.
I probably would not choose it for myself, but again, like you said...each person should be able to make their own decison based on their beliefs/non-beliefs.
This is one of those times when being an athiest is the easier road to travel-lol
 

littledebbie

New member
Well I am in favor of it.<br>
<br>
<br>
For those who take the moral rightness stand and say it's still
Suicide. I argue that we have been prolonging what would have been
the "natural" course of our life for years with
medications etc. so it's a little late now to be crying
"un-natural".<br>
<br>
<br>
Also, on a religious level...the person is already dying, you are
not taking a healthy life throwing away the gift that was given to
you you are simply moving with the course of nature in the most
painless way possible I don't see it altering Gods plan or anything
I mean you are already dying, if the law went into place like
they're suggesting you have 6 months or less. <br>
<br>
<br>
 I think that with the proper qualifiers, such as the
mentioned 6 moths and deemed mentally capable etc. it is the right
thing to do.  i am not saying everyone should do it blah blah
I'm simply saying it should not be illegal.  we should have
the RIGHT to die as comfortably as possible.<br>
<br>
<br>
And I'm with Emily, those who are protesting at the top of their
lungs are usually not sick and have not cared for someone through
the end stage of a terminal illness.<br>
<br>
<br>
As far as the slippery slope issue and devaluing life...we already
deal with such issues with abortion, privacy vs public safety...all
types of issues.  people will always try to abuse something
that's why there are laws/enforcement.<br>
<br>
editing to add: for those who would say it's not for them i would
challenge you to think of someone you love being in extreme
discomfort during the end of a very hard fought battle.  And
then re-evaluate how you feel about it. <img src="i/expressions/heart.gif" border="0">
 

Landy

New member
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>littledebbie</b></i>


editing to add: for those who would say it's not for them i would
challenge you to think of someone you love being in extreme
discomfort during the end of a very hard fought battle.  And
then re-evaluate how you feel about it. <img src="i/expressions/heart.gif" border="0"></end quote></div>


I'm not sure if this comment is directed at me but will assume so since I was the only one that said I probably would not choose this <i>for myself</i>.
I have lost a sister to CF and a brother that burned to death in a motor accident so I can imagine a loved one being in extreme pain. That being said, if there was an assisted suicide law in place then & that's what they had chosen, then so be it--that's their decision to make.
So after 're-evaluation' I would still choose to go the natural way and I'm glad that we can all have our differing opinions on these type's of issues and we all don't have to think the same way.
 

anonymous

New member
Lynda, it wasn't actually directed <i>at</i> you although your post made me think of that angle to. I know everyone on <i>here</i> either has, or loves someone who has, Cystic Fibrosis which is of course a terminal disease. So it truly was NOT directed at you. It just reminded me of that angle of the opposition as well. Please don't take it personal, it was honeslty not intended as such.
And yes it is nice we can all have different opinions this place would be stone boring if we didn't <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif" border="0"> And that's why it would be okay for it to be legal....legalizing it just makes it an option a personal choice the way it should be. The question isn't really so much would you as an individual choose it, but do you belive we should have the right to make the choice.
 

Landy

New member
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>anonymous</b></i>

Lynda, it wasn't actually directed <i>at</i> you although your post made me think of that angle to. I know everyone on <i>here</i> either has, or loves someone who has, Cystic Fibrosis which is of course a terminal disease. So it truly was NOT directed at you. It just reminded me of that angle of the opposition as well. Please don't take it personal, it was honeslty not intended as such.

And yes it is nice we can all have different opinions this place would be stone boring if we didn't <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif" border="0"> And that's why it would be okay for it to be legal....legalizing it just makes it an option a personal choice the way it should be. The question isn't really so much would you as an individual choose it, but do you belive we should have the right to make the choice.</end quote></div>

Thanks for letting me know that. I wasn't sure if I should take it personally or not....I'm glad to know it wasn't directed at me<img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0">
 
I personally am not for it. I think that everything we go through is our test and will make us better hereafter. I call it the refiners fire. Well my religion calls it that as well. I believe when it is our time to go we go and I would not shorten that time. I want to leave it in Gods hands. My personal beliefs.
 

JennifersHope

New member
I am also interested in this topic. I think people should have the choice, and ultamately they do. No one can stop a person who wants to die, really, Not just saying they do because they are having a bad spell or need some attention or help. But if someone really wants to die, they don't need a doctor to do it.

From a Nurse's perspective.

For me I already know as a nurse I would NEVER be able to take part in the death of another human being, though you better believe I am a strong advocate for a patients comfort and right not to suffer in pain. I am not saying it is wrong but for me I couldn't do it and live with myself.. I have seen a lot of ppl die and I have never seen very few patients die while they were suffering. Usually they are heavily medicated and comfortable...if they are not comfortable then shame on the doctor and the nurse.

As a patient...I know this sounds so hypocritical, but

I am glad I won't be judged for this but I am not going to suffer, doctors assist or not. I will determine how much I can take...If the time came, I will not just keep suffering relentlessly in pain, or struggling to breath. I really am not in to that

Quality over quantity..without a doubt.....
 

anonymous

New member
I think assisted suicide is a good idea, only if you need assistance to kill yourself. Sometimes suicide (depending on how you want it done) can be a tad inconveinent. Not all of us have something like an active volcano nearbye to jump into to make a clean exit ya know. It can be messy and a big inconveinence to your loved ones. There is a guy who actually has a business in my state that makes a ton of money by driving around to different suicide sites and cleans up for either businesses (motels are big, people go there to off themselves), or residential addresses because if family members find you, it's a tad too much to want to clean up uncle johny from the walls ya know? I wanted to kill myself a ton while in highschool, but I realized that I had things to look forward to. I knew that if Joe quit at circle K and I really applied myself, I could possibly make assistant manager. Also I was just learning some cool opening chess moves I didn't want to waste. If we all dig deep we can find some reason to stick around.



Garyhairycheese
 

dyza

New member
hav you considered how insurance companies would react to this, most dont pay out on suicide. Just a thought.
 
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