Can someone explain to me health insurance costs for CF employees for employers?

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welshwitch

Guest
There's been a lot of talk here lately about a spike in insurance premiums that an employer sees when a CF employee or a parent of a CFer gets hired. Can someone explain this to me? In my experience I've always signed up for a group health insurance plan. How would the costs of my prescriptions affect the company? And how would these costs compare with, say, an employee with 6 kids? An employee who is pregnant? An employee who is often in the hospital or has a sick spouse? Someone who is diabetic and requires many doctor's appointments?

I've never been hospitalized and only have Pulmozyme and Creon as expensive meds, but I am currently job hunting and this aspect of it makes me uncomfortable. I've never outwardly been discriminated against for my CF, but then again I don't broadcast it at work, either. Are the HR people looking at my paperwork and thinking that I am a liability and wondering why I have such high medical costs? Do my prescription costs make the rest of my coworkers have to pay higher premiums? Or does that not matter since it's a group insurance plan? Would it be better to aim for larger companies rather than small ones? Any enlightenment would help. I've been working full time and getting my own health insurance from my employer since I was 24 (11 years now) and I still don't quite get how this works.

Thanks!
 
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welshwitch

Guest
And another thought: one time a colleague at my work had a child who was diagnosed with leukemia. The hospital stays, surgeries, bone marrow transplants, and medication were extensive and ongoing for the better part of a year. He was public about it at work. But, could that have bumped up all of our premiums or affected his employment in any way? And how does the Americans with Disabilities Act play into this????
 

ethan508

New member
My older brother owns a small landscape company. Because he has CF, it put his company in a higher tier rated insurance (i.e. higher premium). This not only increase his own premium but the premium of all his employees (about 12). With the ACA the regulation on high tier insurance was changed and it has saved his company thousands (while increasing the costs of those in a 'very healthy' rated tier).

Similar story with my kid brother (about 10 years ago), my dad was appointed a member of a small hospital board which gave him access to the group insurance (about 150 employees). Because just one kid had CF the entire group would be bumped into a higher risk rated insurance (i.e. higher price). So the hospital found it cheaper to buy an individual (but high rated) policy for my kid brother, and that kept the rest of the entire group in a low risk (i.e. healthier) cost tier. Again the ACA, set regulations that flattened the risk rated tier structure allowed by insurance.

With group coverage it does depend on how big the group is. Many large corporations are self-insured, but they pay a "name brand" insurance company to administer the coverage. So the administering company (like blue cross or similar) sets all the health care coverage policy and makes the contracts with providers, sends out adjustments, and sends payments. But in the end the employer pays the bill and the insurance company get a fee for the administrative legwork. I'm not sure if the corporation can see exactly where the money is going, or what it went for (need to research that one).

If the company you work for is large enough, with plenty of other families and higher risk people (mine is 16k+ employees) then a person with CF can kind of 'hide' in the policy a little better than in a smaller group.
 

randford

New member
First of all, it depends on the group coverage plan. The way it works (for now) is that an employer selects a group health insurance plan and then invite employees to enroll. Typically, employers cover at least 50% of each employee's monthly premium, and can also contribute to dependent premiums. The remainder is paid for by the employee. However, if an employee with ANY preexisting condition enrolls in the plan, there is no doubt the insurance carrier will know their condition because it's on a medical information database. Yes, "preexisting condition" is no longer an issue with getting health insurance, due to ACA, but the point is that the group plan is a pool. As the pool increases, if all employees are equal, the premiums are lower. But if someone has a health issue, the premiums rise for everyone.

Let's just say for the sake of argument, that all employees are paying $200/month for a premium. Then a person with a preexisting condition is hired and goes on the plan. Theoretically, the insurance carrier would increase the overall premiums and the additional burden is essentially equally distributed. So the premiums may jump to say, $300/month or more for everyone. So it doesn't take a genius to figure out the timeline and who caused the spike. They may not know you have CF. But if you're going to doctors periodically, or expressing physical issues at work, etc. People are nosey. They will find out. They can scrub your social media and if you've so much as hinted that you have CF, the jig is up. They know. And trust that human resources has ways of finding out. To be sure, they cannot fire you for having CF. That's against the law. But unless you have a clause in your contract, should you even have a contract, you can bet they can find other ways to leverage what they know against you until you quit or they can release you for any reason in a "right to work" state. Businesses don't exist to make us healthy and happy. They exist to make a profit and reduce overhead. However, there are a few conscientious employers. But that's a thin line with new ACA Obamacare rules.

Beginning on January 1, 2015, employers with 100 or more full-time workers will need to provide affordable health insurance to 70 percent of their employees or owe a $2,000 per worker penalty, under the long-delayed employer mandate provision of the Affordable Care Act (ACA). By imposing a penalty on medium-sized businesses – the smallest businesses are exempt from the health insurance requirement – that do not offer employee health insurance, policymakers hope to encourage more business owners to provide this benefit to workers.

So what is happening now is that many employers are cutting people to part time or releasing them from employment to meet the mandate. What will eventually happen is that group health insurance will eventually disappear for most employees, making the earlier argument mute. As premiums rises and employers have to pay upwards of 50% of the premium, it's simply more cost effective for employers to push employees into individual plans, cut hours or fired them. That takes a huge burden (overhead) off the employer. So eventually, the earlier argument may not even matter because employees will eventually be on their own.

Just be prepared for the day your employer tells you that they can no longer afford your coverage or cut you to part time or worse. If you work for an employer of less than 100 employees, you're on your own anyway. So it really depends on each individual situation.


There's been a lot of talk here lately about a spike in insurance premiums that an employer sees when a CF employee or a parent of a CFer gets hired. Can someone explain this to me? In my experience I've always signed up for a group health insurance plan. How would the costs of my prescriptions affect the company? And how would these costs compare with, say, an employee with 6 kids? An employee who is pregnant? An employee who is often in the hospital or has a sick spouse? Someone who is diabetic and requires many doctor's appointments?

I've never been hospitalized and only have Pulmozyme and Creon as expensive meds, but I am currently job hunting and this aspect of it makes me uncomfortable. I've never outwardly been discriminated against for my CF, but then again I don't broadcast it at work, either. Are the HR people looking at my paperwork and thinking that I am a liability and wondering why I have such high medical costs? Do my prescription costs make the rest of my coworkers have to pay higher premiums? Or does that not matter since it's a group insurance plan? Would it be better to aim for larger companies rather than small ones? Any enlightenment would help. I've been working full time and getting my own health insurance from my employer since I was 24 (11 years now) and I still don't quite get how this works.

Thanks!
 

Jennyvb17

New member
I think it is a lot of fear mongering that you would be fired for your high cost to the company.
I work in HR. The last thing we want to do is walk ourselves into a lawsuit that would come from that sort of action.

Your employer is going to know. As soon as you fill out FMLA after being employed for a year.
You are probably not the only one with higher costs.

People cost the employer money. That's how it works.
 

randford

New member
Of course not. What company wants a lawsuit? You're the resident HR expert but it's been my experience, through observation that there are plenty of ways, over a period of time, to release someone, for a variety of performance issues. Even more so in a "right to work" state.

Certainly a larger company can absorb the costs. No doubt about it. I was speaking specifically about those companies of 100 employees or less.
And of course your employer will eventually find out. There's no way to truly hide it.



I think it is a lot of fear mongering that you would be fired for your high cost to the company.
I work in HR. The last thing we want to do is walk ourselves into a lawsuit that would come from that sort of action.

Your employer is going to know. As soon as you fill out FMLA after being employed for a year.
You are probably not the only one with higher costs.

People cost the employer money. That's how it works.
 
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welshwitch

Guest
Thanks for all the info, all!

I guess I'm not really worried about "hiding" my CF, but more about just the numbers and being smart about this -- especially since I'm job hunting now. I'm not worried really about being fired due to my illness.

And yes, I'm sure I'm not the only one with higher costs. People DO cost the employer money.

Thanks, all!
 
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welshwitch

Guest
Also, I've worked for 6 person startups and 300+ person companies, and have never experienced any direct issues from my employer related to this. I just have never understood quite how this works.
 

ethan508

New member
I agree with Jenny, lots of fear mongering that just doesn't play out that way in real life. I posted this on another thread, but my company has cut 2200 employees from my location in the last 7 years I've worked there and there is zero correlation between a worker health and laid off status. And yes we get yearly reminders that health care is getting more expensive, we even have a HR group running 'health living' programs in order to keep the company's health care costs down.

I'm not sure that the flattened policies don't apply to groups. The company my CF brother owns uses a group plan, and they saw a bunch of savings due to ACA regulations (i.e. their high risk tier is now significantly cheaper than it was pre ACA).

As far as drug costs, there are cancer drugs in the $250k range. Cancer care can be insanely expensive (those hospital stays aren't short or infrequent). A co-worker had an infant with a heart condition whose care approached $1M for the first few months of life (these cost will drop in subsequent years but will still include a life-time of drugs and semi-annual visits to a specialist, with the always looming $100k+ heart surgery just around the bend). I had a coworker with Chrone's who hits his $8000 out of pocket max in January, and had two hosptial stints within 12 months of hiring on (one stint took him out of commission for 6 weeks) and he has avoided 9 rounds of layoffs.

A lot of chronic conditions cost way more than the non-affect population understands. That is why I do appreciate that we have people like Randford and Believing and organizations like the CFF that will advocate for our needs. It is important to let policy makers know that these issues exist, not just for CF folks but for anyone with a chronic condition. We don't need a free ride, but we do need some protections against the most abusive practices.
 

ethan508

New member
Another story: My younger CF brother was interning as a programmer during his last year of college. He had some exacerbations that he took care of with 2 hospital stints about 3 months apart. This caused him to miss work and school and pushed his graduation date back a semester. Because of the hospital stays his company knew he had CF (he just told them flat out) they still hired him on full time after graduation, with full benefits and a decent salary. Actually his salary offer was higher than another company who didn't know they'd get a CF-kid. The moral being, a person with CF can get hired even if the company knows you have CF (not that I would mention it in the interview or anything). Just do your best to be valuable (i.e. hard work and learned skills).
 
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welshwitch

Guest
Thanks Ethan! :) Makes me feel better about job hunting and interviewing!
 

randford

New member
Ethan, you bring up some very good points. It's good that you work for a larger employer and I see the benefit of your brother's company, with respect to the ACA higher risk tier. That may save the jobs of those with CF, cancer and other conditions.

But as you said, those "Health Living" programs are a tell tail of what is coming. There is no way for us to know how the ACA changes will shake out. It's like being on a roller coaster in the dark. But you are right. We all need to consider that as we age, it will get even tougher to survive life beyond CF. I'm glad you and "Believing", along with others are taking special note and speaking up.

It's funny. You worry about your CF. Heck, we all do!! But I'm at the point where I'm more worried about surviving life beyond CF! It's almost like CF is what's known and understood. It appears tangible. It can be managed and controlled to some degree. But surviving life beyond CF seems arbitrary and perhaps intangible but certainly easy to solve, I think.

We have to turn that worry into action! Do something positive that might help everyone. Doesn't hurt to try. Doesn't hurt to ask! ;-)



I agree with Jenny, lots of fear mongering that just doesn't play out that way in real life. I posted this on another thread, but my company has cut 2200 employees from my location in the last 7 years I've worked there and there is zero correlation between a worker health and laid off status. And yes we get yearly reminders that health care is getting more expensive, we even have a HR group running 'health living' programs in order to keep the company's health care costs down.

I'm not sure that the flattened policies don't apply to groups. The company my CF brother owns uses a group plan, and they saw a bunch of savings due to ACA regulations (i.e. their high risk tier is now significantly cheaper than it was pre ACA).

As far as drug costs, there are cancer drugs in the $250k range. Cancer care can be insanely expensive (those hospital stays aren't short or infrequent). A co-worker had an infant with a heart condition whose care approached $1M for the first few months of life (these cost will drop in subsequent years but will still include a life-time of drugs and semi-annual visits to a specialist, with the always looming $100k+ heart surgery just around the bend). I had a coworker with Chrone's who hits his $8000 out of pocket max in January, and had two hosptial stints within 12 months of hiring on (one stint took him out of commission for 6 weeks) and he has avoided 9 rounds of layoffs.

A lot of chronic conditions cost way more than the non-affect population understands. That is why I do appreciate that we have people like Randford and Believing and organizations like the CFF that will advocate for our needs. It is important to let policy makers know that these issues exist, not just for CF folks but for anyone with a chronic condition. We don't need a free ride, but we do need some protections against the most abusive practices.
 

jaimers

Super Moderator
I'm pretty sure You don't have to disclose the specific reason why you need time off under FMLA.

I've worked for a mid sized company and a larger company and never had anything but incredibly positive experiences when CF issues came up that affected my work (hospitalizations, etc). I never disclosed CF until necessary or I knew a hospitalization was imminent. My managers and HR departments bent over backwards to try and help me resolve any issues that came up with insurance/short and long term disability and FMLA. I know this is not the case for everyone and there are certainly less than upstanding companies out there that may find a way to try and get rid of you because of CF specifically. I think those are far fewer than the good companies out there that aren't out to get their employees. Unexpected astronomical medical expenses can pop up for anyone at any time. My dad was diagnosed with stage 4 lung cancer last year, did multiple rounds of chemo and will continue on maintenance chemo for the rest of his life. That wasn't expected, it's cost a ton of money, and his job is not in danger. He does work at a very large company and so I'm sure the cost is more easily absorbed than it would be if he were working at a 50 person company.

Believing, I could be wrong but I think if your son is offered coverage through his employer but opts to purchase his own through the marketplace he is not eligible for any type of tax credits for that purchase and he is also not eligible for the employer contributions toward coverage that he would normally receive if he got coverage through work. This seems to be a very helpful link in discussing that.
http://www.rwjf.org/content/dam/farm/reports/reports/2013/rwjf408970/subassets/rwjf408970_2

I think the general ideas in this thread are good as well as the other ones of similar topics with government disability and such. But let's don't fall into the mentality that everyone is out to get us and make our lives harder because we have CF. Sure companies are always going to want to keep costs down but I really think the ones that will fire a CF person in order to do that are few and far between.
 

Aboveallislove

Super Moderator
Jaimers, you said it all so well. And I totally agree: There most employers are "good" ones. And it might well be that the "bad ones" are really those who have had problems with employees.
I would also add that typically group plans provide better coverage than those through the market place (better network options, etc.)
Also, while with FMLA you don't need to disclose CF, you do need to establish a "serious health condition," and the company can actually require you to go to one of their doctors...that's rare but I could see if someone played coy with HR, they might think it was not legit, as oppose to that they don't want the company to know.
 

ethan508

New member
@believingjesus: I guess if you are pessimistic everything works out better than you planned :p. But based on your screen name, there should be more hope inside of you (or at least grace given hope): "Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding." If you can do me (and maybe some others) a favor, try to keep the negativity down a bit. Expressing concerns, asking questions, sharing fears and, sad experience while looking for strength from others is what a community like this is for (at least for me). But to jump on each thread with a constant and unrelenting negativity makes it a place of fear and stress. And the last thing I need is stress and fear. "Fear lead to anger, anger leads to hate, and hate lead to suffering" (sometimes suffering through really bad prequels).

Anyway back on topic: I looked into my work's FLMA policy. It is pretty generous (even if it is required by law generosity). For me, when the time comes to use it (i.e. hospital stay), I can't imagine a way to state that you are missing a reasonable amount of work without leading bosses and co-workers to think that you are malingering or worse. I think the best way to handle it is to be 100% straight forward with my boss. The human imagination is far more creative than the truth. Thanks jaimers for sharing your experience with this. Anyone else have experience with this?
 
I'm sorry Ethan to you and to everyone else, including my son. I love him more than my life and existence and I don't mean him or anyone else any harm. I always feel I'm one step away from the looney bin. I'm sorry for being such a downer.
 
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welshwitch

Guest
Thanks, Believing. I know you're just doing your best. CF is a really scary and tough disease -- but it's true that positivity and optimism are one of the best defenses. Hang in there everyone.
 

Jennyvb17

New member
Re FMLA:

You certainly don't have to specify that it is cf. Your employer is going to ask you to have your doctor full out a certification. You can find that certification on the department of labor website. All employers use a form very standard to this. It's going to ask a bunch of questions about what is wrong, when you've been treated etc. the doctor could probably say lung infection without saying cf And ongoing care due to infections.

Before you can claim time as FMLA you need to tell your employer and get the forms from them.
There are also rules about having worked for them a year and them having more than 50 employees. Although I've found many smaller business will still give you an FMLA like leave, even though they don't have to.

This does give you the 12 weeks off. It is up to the employer if they force you to use vacation time or if it can be unpaid.
I use mine for my regular dr visits and hospital stays.
 
Thank you Welshwitch for being so understanding. I am truly sorry for causing you or anyone else anxiety and fear.:( Thank you Jenny for the FMLA information. I appreciate that.
 

Jet

Member
I work for a large insurance company and have never had any issues due to my CF. My manager, the CEO and a few close associates know about it. Others have no clue. I wouldn't work for a company that treated employees poorly because of health issues.

A few comments on the ACA. If you refuse employer based coverage I believe t makes you ineligible for the state or federal exchanges. Regarding data shared with an employer, the information is blinded. An employer will recieve data on the types of illness their employees have and the treatments and cost associated with them. However the indvidual names are not released. However as a few people have stated if its a small company people may be able to deduce it.
 
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