Cf with no mutations?

SkateProMommy

New member
Hi, I just joined this forum hoping to find some answers as well as support. My almost 2yr old has been unofficially diagnosed with atypical CF by his pulmonologist. He has had the full genetic testing done by Ambry; they cannot find any mutations. He had a positive sweat test and has finger clubbing. He is pancreatic insufficient and has been on Creon for almost a year. It is the only the way his stools are "normal" and he can gain weight. When he was born he had reflux/GI issues and was FTT - he is less than the 5th pervent for weight and 10% for height He has been on antibiotics 7 times since this past August (after a trip to the ER). We neb him a few times a week and everyday a couple of times when he is sick, which is way too often. I guess I am just looking for any advice or suggestions anyone may have...

Thanks in advance...
 

SkateProMommy

New member
Hi, I just joined this forum hoping to find some answers as well as support. My almost 2yr old has been unofficially diagnosed with atypical CF by his pulmonologist. He has had the full genetic testing done by Ambry; they cannot find any mutations. He had a positive sweat test and has finger clubbing. He is pancreatic insufficient and has been on Creon for almost a year. It is the only the way his stools are "normal" and he can gain weight. When he was born he had reflux/GI issues and was FTT - he is less than the 5th pervent for weight and 10% for height He has been on antibiotics 7 times since this past August (after a trip to the ER). We neb him a few times a week and everyday a couple of times when he is sick, which is way too often. I guess I am just looking for any advice or suggestions anyone may have...

Thanks in advance...
 

SkateProMommy

New member
Hi, I just joined this forum hoping to find some answers as well as support. My almost 2yr old has been unofficially diagnosed with atypical CF by his pulmonologist. He has had the full genetic testing done by Ambry; they cannot find any mutations. He had a positive sweat test and has finger clubbing. He is pancreatic insufficient and has been on Creon for almost a year. It is the only the way his stools are "normal" and he can gain weight. When he was born he had reflux/GI issues and was FTT - he is less than the 5th pervent for weight and 10% for height He has been on antibiotics 7 times since this past August (after a trip to the ER). We neb him a few times a week and everyday a couple of times when he is sick, which is way too often. I guess I am just looking for any advice or suggestions anyone may have...
<br />
<br />Thanks in advance...
 

mom2owen

New member
Hi, I am new here too and we are very similar in our stories (my son is 7 and has a g-tube but otherwise very similar). We have not done the Ambry test yet but he has had a panel which was negative. It is so tough to have the same types of issues but no clear diagnosis.
I just wanted to say hi and that I will be reading other responses <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0"> Good luck, I hope you figure this out. It is so hard not knowing...
 

mom2owen

New member
Hi, I am new here too and we are very similar in our stories (my son is 7 and has a g-tube but otherwise very similar). We have not done the Ambry test yet but he has had a panel which was negative. It is so tough to have the same types of issues but no clear diagnosis.
I just wanted to say hi and that I will be reading other responses <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0"> Good luck, I hope you figure this out. It is so hard not knowing...
 

mom2owen

New member
Hi, I am new here too and we are very similar in our stories (my son is 7 and has a g-tube but otherwise very similar). We have not done the Ambry test yet but he has had a panel which was negative. It is so tough to have the same types of issues but no clear diagnosis.
<br />I just wanted to say hi and that I will be reading other responses <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0"> Good luck, I hope you figure this out. It is so hard not knowing...
 
M

Mommafirst

Guest
Well I'd think it'd be really unlikely that its really CF, but it is possible. The symptoms do speak quite loudly here, and its good to have the diagnosis and be able to do something about it. I know that Ambry claims to only be able to find 99% of all mutations.

Some kids diagnosed with Cf were later found to have Schwachmann Diamond Syndrome or Primary Ciliary Diskinesia, so it might be worth ruling those out before settling on CF. But ultimately it would be better to have the diagnosis and treat these symptoms than not to have a diagnosis and be in flux for ever.
 
M

Mommafirst

Guest
Well I'd think it'd be really unlikely that its really CF, but it is possible. The symptoms do speak quite loudly here, and its good to have the diagnosis and be able to do something about it. I know that Ambry claims to only be able to find 99% of all mutations.

Some kids diagnosed with Cf were later found to have Schwachmann Diamond Syndrome or Primary Ciliary Diskinesia, so it might be worth ruling those out before settling on CF. But ultimately it would be better to have the diagnosis and treat these symptoms than not to have a diagnosis and be in flux for ever.
 
M

Mommafirst

Guest
Well I'd think it'd be really unlikely that its really CF, but it is possible. The symptoms do speak quite loudly here, and its good to have the diagnosis and be able to do something about it. I know that Ambry claims to only be able to find 99% of all mutations.
<br />
<br />Some kids diagnosed with Cf were later found to have Schwachmann Diamond Syndrome or Primary Ciliary Diskinesia, so it might be worth ruling those out before settling on CF. But ultimately it would be better to have the diagnosis and treat these symptoms than not to have a diagnosis and be in flux for ever.
 

SkateProMommy

New member
Thank you Heather! Luckily, the DR we are seeing is a CF specialist, and is awesome! He has been working with us trying to rule out everything else we can. I will look into those other diseases and see what the diagnostic testing is... Since we started on this journey when he was 5mos old I have felt all along that this is his Dx but with the tests I get confused....

Mom2Owen - Thanks for the support! We all need it <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0"> I hope you get some answers with the Ambry test.
 

SkateProMommy

New member
Thank you Heather! Luckily, the DR we are seeing is a CF specialist, and is awesome! He has been working with us trying to rule out everything else we can. I will look into those other diseases and see what the diagnostic testing is... Since we started on this journey when he was 5mos old I have felt all along that this is his Dx but with the tests I get confused....

Mom2Owen - Thanks for the support! We all need it <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0"> I hope you get some answers with the Ambry test.
 

SkateProMommy

New member
Thank you Heather! Luckily, the DR we are seeing is a CF specialist, and is awesome! He has been working with us trying to rule out everything else we can. I will look into those other diseases and see what the diagnostic testing is... Since we started on this journey when he was 5mos old I have felt all along that this is his Dx but with the tests I get confused....
<br />
<br />Mom2Owen - Thanks for the support! We all need it <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0"> I hope you get some answers with the Ambry test.
 

Ratatosk

Administrator
Staff member
It could be that a mutation hasn't been identified yet or your child could have something similar to CF. I have an online friend whose son had a very RARE CF mutation, as well as some other illnesses, they think he may also have SWD. Even before the CF diagnosis, they were doing nebs and vesting. He has cultured pseudomonas and some other common cf bugs, so he's on tobi nebs and does sinus rinses with tobi.

Have they ever done a sputum or throat culture to see if he's got any cf bugs? DS gets cultured every time he has a cf appointment and then they use the results to determine which antibiotics might best be used to treat the infection. DS was on tobi and another abx and developed a throat clearing cough -- turned out he was culturing something else -- steno maltophilia which wasn't sensitive to the medications he was already on, so they added septra to treat that bug....

You mention nebbing a few times a week. Has the pulmonologist suggested a vest or doing chest physiotherapy a couple times a day with the nebs to help clear the lungs and to prevent infections.

Most of us do cpt or the vest on our children at least twice a day, increasing it when they're sick.
 

Ratatosk

Administrator
Staff member
It could be that a mutation hasn't been identified yet or your child could have something similar to CF. I have an online friend whose son had a very RARE CF mutation, as well as some other illnesses, they think he may also have SWD. Even before the CF diagnosis, they were doing nebs and vesting. He has cultured pseudomonas and some other common cf bugs, so he's on tobi nebs and does sinus rinses with tobi.

Have they ever done a sputum or throat culture to see if he's got any cf bugs? DS gets cultured every time he has a cf appointment and then they use the results to determine which antibiotics might best be used to treat the infection. DS was on tobi and another abx and developed a throat clearing cough -- turned out he was culturing something else -- steno maltophilia which wasn't sensitive to the medications he was already on, so they added septra to treat that bug....

You mention nebbing a few times a week. Has the pulmonologist suggested a vest or doing chest physiotherapy a couple times a day with the nebs to help clear the lungs and to prevent infections.

Most of us do cpt or the vest on our children at least twice a day, increasing it when they're sick.
 

Ratatosk

Administrator
Staff member
It could be that a mutation hasn't been identified yet or your child could have something similar to CF. I have an online friend whose son had a very RARE CF mutation, as well as some other illnesses, they think he may also have SWD. Even before the CF diagnosis, they were doing nebs and vesting. He has cultured pseudomonas and some other common cf bugs, so he's on tobi nebs and does sinus rinses with tobi.
<br />
<br />Have they ever done a sputum or throat culture to see if he's got any cf bugs? DS gets cultured every time he has a cf appointment and then they use the results to determine which antibiotics might best be used to treat the infection. DS was on tobi and another abx and developed a throat clearing cough -- turned out he was culturing something else -- steno maltophilia which wasn't sensitive to the medications he was already on, so they added septra to treat that bug....
<br />
<br />You mention nebbing a few times a week. Has the pulmonologist suggested a vest or doing chest physiotherapy a couple times a day with the nebs to help clear the lungs and to prevent infections.
<br />
<br />Most of us do cpt or the vest on our children at least twice a day, increasing it when they're sick.
 

hmw

New member
First of all, I am glad you have a dr that is looking into this so thoroughly. Your son clearly needs this, no matter what's going on with him. All too often we see drs that brush off a severe dx and then a parent is left with a child that is STILL very ill and left with no tools with which to deal with it! My daughter has one known mutation (df508, the most common one) and one unknown mutation. She too had the Ambry Amplified w/deletions & duplications, the most comprehensive testing out there for CF. Having NO known mutations is very rare, but not impossible. As Steve (our resident expert here on their testing) tells us, there is NO genetic test that can 100% rule out this disease. Diagnosis is an art and not all drs are equally open-minded here- you must combine genetic testing, the sweat test, results of newborn screening (when applicable), symptoms, test results (sputum cultures, xrays/ct scans, etc), and response to treatment when forming a diagnosis.

There is a genetic test for SDS so it makes sense to rule it out. It's uncommon to have elevated sweat tests with that but it does happen in some cases. Since other health conditions are common with that syndrome, identifying it would be important. (If he has no sign of other symptoms commonly seen with it, your son's dr may have already thought of it and discarded it.) With Primary Ciliary Diskinesia, genetic testing can identify it in some cases and in many others, analyzing the cilia in the respiratory tract can diagnose it so that makes sense as well to at least look into and rule out. That disease presents VERY much like CF (and is treated very much like it as well.)

I agree with doing some form of airway clearance and nebs daily to see if that helps. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0"> I wish you and your son the best- welcome to the site!
 

hmw

New member
First of all, I am glad you have a dr that is looking into this so thoroughly. Your son clearly needs this, no matter what's going on with him. All too often we see drs that brush off a severe dx and then a parent is left with a child that is STILL very ill and left with no tools with which to deal with it! My daughter has one known mutation (df508, the most common one) and one unknown mutation. She too had the Ambry Amplified w/deletions & duplications, the most comprehensive testing out there for CF. Having NO known mutations is very rare, but not impossible. As Steve (our resident expert here on their testing) tells us, there is NO genetic test that can 100% rule out this disease. Diagnosis is an art and not all drs are equally open-minded here- you must combine genetic testing, the sweat test, results of newborn screening (when applicable), symptoms, test results (sputum cultures, xrays/ct scans, etc), and response to treatment when forming a diagnosis.

There is a genetic test for SDS so it makes sense to rule it out. It's uncommon to have elevated sweat tests with that but it does happen in some cases. Since other health conditions are common with that syndrome, identifying it would be important. (If he has no sign of other symptoms commonly seen with it, your son's dr may have already thought of it and discarded it.) With Primary Ciliary Diskinesia, genetic testing can identify it in some cases and in many others, analyzing the cilia in the respiratory tract can diagnose it so that makes sense as well to at least look into and rule out. That disease presents VERY much like CF (and is treated very much like it as well.)

I agree with doing some form of airway clearance and nebs daily to see if that helps. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0"> I wish you and your son the best- welcome to the site!
 

hmw

New member
First of all, I am glad you have a dr that is looking into this so thoroughly. Your son clearly needs this, no matter what's going on with him. All too often we see drs that brush off a severe dx and then a parent is left with a child that is STILL very ill and left with no tools with which to deal with it! My daughter has one known mutation (df508, the most common one) and one unknown mutation. She too had the Ambry Amplified w/deletions & duplications, the most comprehensive testing out there for CF. Having NO known mutations is very rare, but not impossible. As Steve (our resident expert here on their testing) tells us, there is NO genetic test that can 100% rule out this disease. Diagnosis is an art and not all drs are equally open-minded here- you must combine genetic testing, the sweat test, results of newborn screening (when applicable), symptoms, test results (sputum cultures, xrays/ct scans, etc), and response to treatment when forming a diagnosis.
<br />
<br />There is a genetic test for SDS so it makes sense to rule it out. It's uncommon to have elevated sweat tests with that but it does happen in some cases. Since other health conditions are common with that syndrome, identifying it would be important. (If he has no sign of other symptoms commonly seen with it, your son's dr may have already thought of it and discarded it.) With Primary Ciliary Diskinesia, genetic testing can identify it in some cases and in many others, analyzing the cilia in the respiratory tract can diagnose it so that makes sense as well to at least look into and rule out. That disease presents VERY much like CF (and is treated very much like it as well.)
<br />
<br />I agree with doing some form of airway clearance and nebs daily to see if that helps. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0"> I wish you and your son the best- welcome to the site!
 

antonette1279

New member
I can relate to you 100 percent. I have a baby boy that is a year old and has been sick since he was 2 weeks old and in the hospital 7 to 8 times. They have tested him for EVERYTHING and then decided to test for CF due to him being FTT and oily stools as well as ALWAYS congested and "wet lungs" The genetic screen came back "can not rule out CF" and he had borderline sweat tests. After repeating these tests and getting the same results, and doing about a million other tests they diagnosed him with CF based on clinical observation and questionable test results. He is doing better but does still have nebs quite often DAILY and medicine for GERD...We will soon have a vest once he is big enough...I will keep you and your family in my prayers
 

antonette1279

New member
I can relate to you 100 percent. I have a baby boy that is a year old and has been sick since he was 2 weeks old and in the hospital 7 to 8 times. They have tested him for EVERYTHING and then decided to test for CF due to him being FTT and oily stools as well as ALWAYS congested and "wet lungs" The genetic screen came back "can not rule out CF" and he had borderline sweat tests. After repeating these tests and getting the same results, and doing about a million other tests they diagnosed him with CF based on clinical observation and questionable test results. He is doing better but does still have nebs quite often DAILY and medicine for GERD...We will soon have a vest once he is big enough...I will keep you and your family in my prayers
 
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