Christmas complaint....

L

luke

Guest
I love Christmas....I love everything there is about it. I have noticed this year though that "Christmas cheer' isn't the same. There aren't as many lights and everyone is so afraid to say Merry Christmas it is ridiculous. I heard that a target employee could be fired if they wish you a merry Christmas. They can say happy holidays, which is funny since holiday means "holy day" anyway. I understand that not everyone believes in the reason behind Christmas, but maybe stores shouldn't accept all that money spent on Christmas presents or maybe they shouldn't close down for Christmas day, since they don't "support" it anyway. So, I know I won't be spending any of my money at target this year and if you feel the same as me as ask you to do the same. I do know I will direct all of my stores to use merry Christmas at will!!!!


Have a merry Christmas........



Luke
 

anonymous

New member
It is bad that the very small minority that are offended by Christmas ruin it for everyone.
I know that there are some athiests on this board and I doubt that they are offended by people wishing them Merry Christmas, just as I wouldn't be offended if someone wished me Happy Hanukkah-- I would just assume they were wishing good cheer to me.
Hope
 

Allie

New member
haha..I come from one of those other religions, and *I* don't even care. Someone in a store wishes me a Merry Christmas, I wish them a Happy Hanukkah, end of problem. Granted, I wouldn't be opposed to hearing "Happy Hanukkah" from a store employee, especially since Hanukkah is going on still after you guys are done. But it's not going to happen lol. Happy Holidays isn't THAT bad, it's all inclusive, and as far as I can tell the Target thing is apocrypal, since an employee wished me a Merry Christmas this weekend.

But as far as Christmas, I don't take it that personally. Frankly it's become a secular holiday as far as major celebration details. (christmas tree, Santa, gift giving, etc) And I don't care if they have a nativity scene on the courthouse lawn, as long as there's a menorah and a star of David, a Kwanzaa thingy, and anyone else who wants to be included lol.

I think you actually run into more trouble from groups like American Athiests, I think, which have a bit of a chip on thier shoulder.

But you know what would be really cool? If you guys got Christmas, but we got wished a happy Passover lol.
 

miesl

New member
Atheist checking in here...

I don't care which holiday I get wished. Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, Happy Holidays, Happy Boxing Day, whatever. It's nice to have people be NICE!

What's bothering me is this whole "War on Christmas" crap. I don't see why people are so bothered by being wished "Happy Holidays" instead - as it is more inclusive of EVERYONE and it, by default - includes Christmas. Plus holiday is generally accepted as meaning "day of celebration" considering that days like... July 4, Martin Luther King, Jr day, New Years, etc are also 'holidays'.
 

rose4cale

New member
We were at Target the other night and I noticed the 3 cashiers all around us said Merry Christmas. Almost like they were proving a point. I work retail in the evenings, and I say screw being politically correct. I am going to wish each and every customer a Merry Christmas tonight. Most of them are there to buy gifts for CHRISTMAS anyway. Why else would they be shopping at midnight? <img src="i/expressions/present.gif" border="0">

...oh, and if I were to be fired for something like that...who cares. I think I can manage finding a low paying job at Christmas time, just about anywhere! <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif" border="0">
 

julie

New member
Well, on a brighter note (I agree with you Luke), I just got an email from the AMerican Family Association. Next year Wallgreens will be returning to the "christmas aisle" labled as such and employees wishing a merry christmas. I will reserve my shoping for them next year.

It just floors me that we, as a society, waste so much time on crap like this-not to mention $$$$$$$$$$$$. If you don't believe in christmas, don't walk down that aisle, it's not like anybody has a gun to your head and is making you do so. and if you don't celebrate christmas and someone says, "merry christmas", just say happy holidays or happy day or SOMETHING. Good lord
 

Mockingbird

New member
<blockquote>Quote<br><hr><i>Originally posted by: <b>miesl</b></i><br>Atheist checking in here...I don't care which holiday I get wished. Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, Happy Holidays, Happy Boxing Day, whatever. It's nice to have people be NICE! What's bothering me is this whole "War on Christmas" crap. I don't see why people are so bothered by being wished "Happy Holidays" instead - as it is more inclusive of EVERYONE and it, by default - includes Christmas. Plus holiday is generally accepted as meaning "day of celebration" considering that days like... July 4, Martin Luther King, Jr day, New Years, etc are also 'holidays'.<hr></blockquote>

The problem is that companies aren't saying "Happy holidays" to be inclusive; they are saying it to exclude Christmas. Just like renaming christmas trees to holiday trees. I don't see any stores renaming menorahs to holiday candles, or Stars of David to holiday stars.

The major problem that I see with this sort of thing, especially when it happens in schools, is that it sends the message christians should be ashamed of their religion. And so we are responding, by showing we are not ashamed. Is that wrong?
 

miesl

New member
<blockquote>Quote
<hr><i>Originally posted by: <b>Mockingbird</b></i>
The problem is that companies aren't saying "Happy holidays" to be inclusive; they are saying it to exclude Christmas. Just like renaming christmas trees to holiday trees. I don't see any stores renaming menorahs to holiday candles, or Stars of David to holiday stars. <hr></blockquote>
Saying "Happy Holidays" - Is meant to be inclusive. I don't see how you can even remotely rationalize that by saying a general term, they are trying to exclude one of the components of the general group. It would be like someone saying that by using the term 'People' it excludes 'white women between the ages of 18-25'. It's absolute foolishness. Now if they were saying "Happy holidays, but not Christmas as it's a crappy holiday" you would have a point.

However - Holiday tree (point me to a store link on that one), is the result of overapplication of stupid political correctness. They aren't trying to stop Christmas - they're just being stupid.

Also - Target. <a href="http://sites.target.com/site/en/corporate/page.jsp?contentId=PRD03-001373">In the future, please look stuff up.</a> They aren't anti Christmas. Take a look at target.com - it has references to Christmas everywhere.
 

Allie

New member
haha...I don't even want to HEAR about an attack on your religion, you guys haven't seen anything lol.

But seriously, the school thing doesn't bother me either. I prefer inclusivness. Scratch that, I VASTLY prefer inclusiveness. I made Christmas ornaments in school, and I wasn't scarred. But when Ahava's CATHOLIC preschool asked me to sent some things to teach the kids about Hanukkah, I was genuinely touched. I think it goes to the 'left out' feeling and it was taken the wrong direction. I'm a teacher. I have holiday decorations in my classroom. Stars of David, Christmas trees, etc. A Wiccan student came to me and said she didn't feel represented. Fine, I said, and asked her to bring in something that's representative of HER holiday celebration. She did. End of problem.

I think including MORE holiday stuff, from all sides is the answer, not taking away.
 

anonymous

New member
<blockquote>Quote<br><hr><i>Originally posted by: <b>Mockingbird</b></i><br><blockquote>Quote


The problem is that companies aren't saying "Happy holidays" to be inclusive; they are saying it to exclude Christmas. Just like renaming christmas trees to holiday trees. I don't see any stores renaming menorahs to holiday candles, or Stars of David to holiday stars.


Just wait, Mockingbird--I hate to say it, but I bet the time is coming when Menorahs will be 'holiday' candles and the Star of David a 'holiday' star. It's too bad that some are supposedly trying not to offend & that's exactly what ends up happening. Heck, they'll probably try to scrap the whole mention of all of the Holidays in a few years.
Just my 2 cents
Hope
 

Mockingbird

New member
<blockquote>Quote<br><hr><i>Originally posted by: <b>miesl</b></i><br><blockquote>Quote

Saying "Happy Holidays" - Is meant to be inclusive. I don't see how you can even remotely rationalize that by saying a general term, they are trying to exclude one of the components of the general group. <hr></blockquote>

I rationalize it because they were excluding Christmas. Yes, they changed their position now, but look at when the season was just starting. Target banned the salvation Army, for goodness sakes. Let me emphasize that; <b>They banned a CHARITY simply because it represented Christmas. </b> Please don't tell me Target was simply misrepresented just because they claim to be. The only reason Target is saying it supports Christmas now is because their sales were so bad.

Look, I'm not debating this. You can continue to argue if you want, but really all I'm doing is trying to tell you why this has become an issue. If you're just going to tell me I'm full of crap without even considering what I have to say, though, then forgive me for trying to explain something. I'll be sure not to make that mistake again.
 

Lilith

New member
Another athiest reporting...

I don't even care about the true meaning behind Christmas, but I do celebrate the holiday because it's my family and my friend's way of getting together to have fun and just enjoy each other's company. Plus, I love the lights and the decorations. I see Christmas as a social holiday, and I think even most little children are more interested in Santa and his reindeer than Jesus. All that being said, I think this whole "get rid of Christmas" thing is a bunch of crap, and I'm tired of all this politically correct BS. There's nothing wrong with saying "Happy Holidays", but for crying out loud, a "Holiday" tree!? That doesn't even make sense! Christmas is the only holiday that HAS a tree!!

This country has gone too far with it's "politically correct" lingo, and I have a feeling it's only going to get worse...
 

Allie

New member
haha..just wait, pretty soon I won't go to temple, I'll go to 'a meeting place of like-minded individuals"
 

Emily65Roses

New member
I see no problem in "happy holidays" if that makes people more comfortable. But I also see no problem in Merry Christmas, Happy Hannukah, Happy Kwanzaa, Happy New Year, or whatever else. I don't see why stores need to leave out Christmas trees, as long as they include a menorah or whatever else. Don't exclude all holidays entirely... just include a piece of each, and everyone can be happy. Why can't they do that?

I don't understand why everyone is sooooooooooo effing stuck on all that PC crap. You know "fairy" isn't acceptable anymore because it's offensive to homosexuals? Last I checked, fairies were little flying women who granted wishes and sprinkled fairy dust. I can't stand how overly PC this country has gotten. If people want to call me handicapped or disabled or even crippled for chrissake, I DON'T CARE!!! They're just words. I hate that whole subject, it's getting ridiculous.
 

JazzysMom

New member
Most people when wishing Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays or Seasons Greetings are just trying to relay a message of joy and best wishes for the "holiday" time which includes all of the year end religious holidays & new years.........they dont necessarily know what holiday the person might celebrate, but just want to be "festive" and it should be received just as that. If ones faith is strong enough then what another says in good gesture (or even whats said by extremists) should not be affected nor should it be taken as an attempt to "convert" or "degrade" the persons belief. So in the act of being politically incorrect I would like to wish everyone a very, Merry Christmas and a Happy, Healthy New Year! Love from my family to yours!
 

miesl

New member
Excerpt from <a target=new class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="<a target=new class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://sites.target.com/site/en/corporate/page.jsp?contentId=PRD03-001336">Target.com</a>
">http://sites.target.com/site/en/corporate/page.jsp?contentId=PRD03-001336">Target.com</a>
</a>
<b>In January 2004 we informed The Salvation Army of our decision to consistently apply our solicitation policy. This policy does not diminish our support of The Salvation Army. In fact, Target and The Salvation Army recently announced a new partnership for an online Wish List designed to assist families in need. From November 25 through January 25, visitors to Target.com/salvationarmy can view and purchase clothing, household items, personal products, and Gift Cards to be donated to families across the country. Guests will also be able to link directly to The Salvation Army website to make a monetary contribution.</b>

They made an exception to the solicitation policy for the Salvation Army for a very long time - and they were STILL contributing to them corporately last year. Also, they notified them in January '04 - after that year's Christmas. They were then getting pressured by other charitable groups to make exceptions for them too. Take a look at the website - you're going to complain about a company that gives 2 million a WEEK in charity because they stopped allowing bell ringers? I would think you would be extremely happy that in this time - a corporation is actively supporting an extremely faith-based charity. I know quite a few people who were happy that Target stopped allowing the bell-ringers based upon the SA's positions on some hot-topic political items.
 

julie

New member
My problem is this, "Happy holidays", "seasons greetings", "Merry Christmas"... whatever... say what you will, and what you believe in and what you were raised to say. That is fine. But DON'T YOU DARE (and this is just general, not to anyone on this board but moreso to those corporate pigs and politicians who waste our time with this crap) TELL ME THAT I CAN'T TELL SOMEONE MERRY CHRISTMAS IF I WISH TO DO SO. That is what I personally have a problem with. If I want to say merry christmas, my job should not be in jeporady over it. Nor should we have to rename what we have been calling a christmas tree for decades, possibly even centuries now, a freaking holiday tree. Hey, if you Joe Schmoe want to call it a holiday tree in your house, FINE! But if it's bene a christmas tree at Rite Aid or wherever else for years now and christmas tree manufacturers are just that, CHRISTMAS TREE MANUFACTURERS then don't make them change the lable. Here in CA we have spent the last 6 months debating what to call the celebration that goes on DURING CHRISTMAS EVE DAY AND CHRISTMAS DAY. Um, well, since it's a christmas celebration and it occurs on christmas eve and christmas day, let's pull our heads out of our butts and call it what it is.

The US is turnning into something that cares to much about offending the next person. If you don't want to call it a christmas tree, don't. If I do, let me. THis is not a communist country but we are well on our way there if you ask me.
 

anonymous

New member
Rev. John Powell, a professor at Loyola University in Chicago writes about Tommy, a student in his Theology of Faith class.



Some twelve years ago, I stood watching my university students file into the classroom for our first session in the Theology of Faith.



That was the day I first saw Tommy.



My eyes and my mind both blinked.



He was combing his long flaxen hair, which hung six inches below his shoulders.



It was the first time I had ever seen a boy with hair that long.



I guess it was just coming into fashion then.



I know in my mind that it isn't what's on your head but what's in it that counts; but on that day, I was unprepared and my emotions flipped I immediately filed Tommy under "S" for strange... very strange.



Tommy turned out to be the "atheist in residence" in my Theology of Faith course.



He constantly objected to, smirked at, or whined about the possibility of an unconditionally loving Father/God.



We lived with each other in relative peace for one semester, although I admit he was for me at times a serious pain in the back pew.



When he came up at the end of the course to turn in his final exam, he asked in a cynical tone, "Do you think I'll ever find God?"



I decided instantly on a little shock therapy.



"No!" I said very emphatically.



"Why not?," he responded, "I thought that was the product you were pushing."



I let him get five steps from the classroom door and then called out, "Tommy! I don't think you'll ever find Him, but I am absolutely certain that He will find you!"



He shrugged a little and left my class and my life.



I felt slightly disappointed at the thought that he had missed my clever line:



"He will find you!" At least I thought it was clever.



Later, I heard that Tommy had graduated and I was duly grateful.



Then a sad report came.



I heard that Tommy had terminal cancer.



Before I could search him out, he came to see me.



When he walked into my office, his body was very badly wasted and the long hair had all fallen out as a result of chemotherapy.



But his eyes were bright and his voice was firm, for the first time, I believe.



"Tommy, I've thought about you so often--I hear you are sick", I blurted out.



"Oh, yes, very sick. I have cancer in both lungs. It's a matter of weeks."



"Can you talk about it, Tom?", I asked.



"Sure, what would you like to know?", he replied.



"What's it like to be only twenty-four and dying?", I asked.



"Well, it could be worse.", he replied.



"Like what?", I asked.



"Well, like being fifty and having no values or ideals; like being fifty and thinking that booze, seducing women, and making money are the real biggies' in life.", he replied.



I began to look through my mental file cabinet under 'S' where I had filed Tommy as strange.



(It seems as though everybody I try to reject by classification, God sends back into my life to educate me.)



"But what I really came to see you about", Tom said, "is something you said to me on the last day of class."



(He remembered!)



He continued, "I asked you if you thought I would ever find God and you said, 'No!' which surprised me.



Then you said, 'But He will find you.'



I thought about that a lot, even though my search for God was hardly intense at that time."



(My clever line. He thought about that a lot!)



"But when the doctors removed a lump from my groin and told me that it was malignant, that's when I got serious about locating God.



And when the malignancy spread into my vital organs, I really began banging bloody fists against the bronze doors of heaven.



But God did not come out. In fact, nothing happened. Did you ever try anything for a long time with great effort and with no success? You get psychologically glutted, fed up with trying. And then you quit."



"Well, one day I woke up, and instead of throwing a few more futile appeals over that high brick wall to a God who may be or may not be there, I just quit.. I decided that I didn't really care about God, about an after life, or anything like that. I decided to spend what time I had left doing something more profitable. I thought about you and your class and I remembered something else you had said:" "The essential sadness is to go through life without loving. But it would be almost equally sad to go through life and leave this world without ever telling those you loved that you had loved them.'"



"So, I began with the hardest one, my Dad.



He was reading the newspaper when I approached him.



"Dad."



"Yes, what?", he asked without lowering the newspaper.



"Dad, I would like to talk with you."



"Well, talk."



"I mean... It's really important".



The newspaper came down three slow inches.



"What is it?"



"Dad, I love you--I just wanted you to know that."



Tom smiled at me and said it with obvious satisfaction, as though he felt a warm and secret joy flowing inside of him.



"The newspaper fluttered to the floor. Then my father did two things I could never remember him ever doing before. He cried and he hugged me. We talked all night, even though he had to go to work the next morning. It felt so good to be close to my father, to see his tears, to feel his hug, to hear him say that he loved me."



"It was easier with my mother and little brother. They cried with me, too, and we hugged each other, and started saying real nice things to each other. We shared the things we had been keeping secret for so many years. I was only sorry about one thing --- that I had waited so long. Here I was, just beginning to open up to all the people I had actually been close to."



"Then, one day I turned around and God was there. He didn't come to me when I pleaded with Him. I guess I was like an animal trainer holding out a hoop:" 'C'mon, jump through. C'mon, I'll give You three days, three weeks.'



"Apparently God does things in His own way and at His own hour. But the important thing is that He was there. He found me! You were right. He found me even after I stopped looking for Him."



"Tommy", I practically gasped: "I think you are saying something very important and much more universal than you realize. To me, at least, you are saying that the surest way to find God is not to make Him a private possession, a problem solver, or an instant consolation in time of need, but rather by opening to love. You know, the Apostle John said that. He said: 'God is love, and anyone who lives in love is living with God and God is living in him.'"



"Tom, could I ask you a favor? You know, when I had you in class you were a real pain. But (laughingly) you can make it all up to me now. Would you come into my present Theology of Faith course and tell them what you have just told me? If I told them the same thing it wouldn't be half as effective as if you were to tell it."



"Ooh I was ready for you, but I don't know if I'm ready for your class."



"Tom, think about it If and when you are ready, give me a call."



In a few days, Tom called, said he was ready for the class, that he wanted to do that for God and for me. So we scheduled a date. However, he never made it.



He had another appointment, far more important than the one with me and my class. Of course, his life was not really ended by his death, only changed. He made the great step from faith into vision. He found a life far more beautiful than the eye of man has ever seen or the ear of man has ever heard or the mind of man has ever imagined.



Before he died, we talked one last time. "I'm not going to make it to your class", he said. "I know, Tom."



"Will you tell them for me? Will you tell the whole world for me?"



"I will, Tom. I'll tell them. I'll do my best."



So, to all of you who have been kind enough to read this simple story about God's love, thank you for listening. And to you, Tommy, somewhere in the sunlit, verdant hills of heaven --- I told them, Tommy as best I could.



If this story means anything to you, please pass it on to a friend or two.



It is a true story and is not enhanced for publicity purposes.



With thanks,



Rev. John Powell, Professor Loyola University in Chicago
 
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