Clubbed toes

J

jmom

New member
Well, here I sit, in the great vacuum of "waiting land", as we await the results of my daughter's genetic test! In the meantime, I think I just realized that she has clubbed toes, and have read that this can be a symptom of CF. Is this true? Let me ask you if you think she has clubbed toes, but since I can't send a photo, I'll describe them. The nail curves downward at the tip, to the extent that I can hardly get the nail clippers up under them. It's almost like the nail is bent downward back into the tip of her toe. And the end of the toe is slightly bulged, more when you're looking at it from the top angle than from the side.
Honestly, I plead insanity and a wildly racing mind while I wait for the answer to her genetic test. There really is no point in pouring over the details of every little symptom because at this point the test will come out the way it will come out regardless of what I discover in the meantime. It's just that 3 confusing years is a long time to try to figure out what's wrong. I'm sure there are many of you out there that can relate.
Please let me know if you have any insight into my clubbed toe questions! Thanks, my friends!
 
J

jmom

New member
Well, here I sit, in the great vacuum of "waiting land", as we await the results of my daughter's genetic test! In the meantime, I think I just realized that she has clubbed toes, and have read that this can be a symptom of CF. Is this true? Let me ask you if you think she has clubbed toes, but since I can't send a photo, I'll describe them. The nail curves downward at the tip, to the extent that I can hardly get the nail clippers up under them. It's almost like the nail is bent downward back into the tip of her toe. And the end of the toe is slightly bulged, more when you're looking at it from the top angle than from the side.
Honestly, I plead insanity and a wildly racing mind while I wait for the answer to her genetic test. There really is no point in pouring over the details of every little symptom because at this point the test will come out the way it will come out regardless of what I discover in the meantime. It's just that 3 confusing years is a long time to try to figure out what's wrong. I'm sure there are many of you out there that can relate.
Please let me know if you have any insight into my clubbed toe questions! Thanks, my friends!
 
J

jmom

New member
Well, here I sit, in the great vacuum of "waiting land", as we await the results of my daughter's genetic test! In the meantime, I think I just realized that she has clubbed toes, and have read that this can be a symptom of CF. Is this true? Let me ask you if you think she has clubbed toes, but since I can't send a photo, I'll describe them. The nail curves downward at the tip, to the extent that I can hardly get the nail clippers up under them. It's almost like the nail is bent downward back into the tip of her toe. And the end of the toe is slightly bulged, more when you're looking at it from the top angle than from the side.
<br /> Honestly, I plead insanity and a wildly racing mind while I wait for the answer to her genetic test. There really is no point in pouring over the details of every little symptom because at this point the test will come out the way it will come out regardless of what I discover in the meantime. It's just that 3 confusing years is a long time to try to figure out what's wrong. I'm sure there are many of you out there that can relate.
<br /> Please let me know if you have any insight into my clubbed toe questions! Thanks, my friends!
 
H

hmw

New member
Clubbing is determined more by the angle of the nail at the base of the nailbed, not the tip of the finger.

There are a few pics (fig 3 & 4) and description of clubbing here:
<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.aafp.org/afp/2004/0315/p1417.html">Nail Abnormalities: Clues to Systemic Disease</a>

Two drs have told me Emily's fingernails are starting to club but I can't really figure out what they are talking about. It's certainly nothing extreme like pictured in some articles. Her toenails I'd have a lot of trouble figuring out... she has funny looking feet/toes (ok, she comes by it honestly, so does her mother. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif" border="0"> )
 
H

hmw

New member
Clubbing is determined more by the angle of the nail at the base of the nailbed, not the tip of the finger.

There are a few pics (fig 3 & 4) and description of clubbing here:
<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.aafp.org/afp/2004/0315/p1417.html">Nail Abnormalities: Clues to Systemic Disease</a>

Two drs have told me Emily's fingernails are starting to club but I can't really figure out what they are talking about. It's certainly nothing extreme like pictured in some articles. Her toenails I'd have a lot of trouble figuring out... she has funny looking feet/toes (ok, she comes by it honestly, so does her mother. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif" border="0"> )
 
H

hmw

New member
Clubbing is determined more by the angle of the nail at the base of the nailbed, not the tip of the finger.
<br />
<br />There are a few pics (fig 3 & 4) and description of clubbing here:
<br /><a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.aafp.org/afp/2004/0315/p1417.html">Nail Abnormalities: Clues to Systemic Disease</a>
<br />
<br />Two drs have told me Emily's fingernails are starting to club but I can't really figure out what they are talking about. It's certainly nothing extreme like pictured in some articles. Her toenails I'd have a lot of trouble figuring out... she has funny looking feet/toes (ok, she comes by it honestly, so does her mother. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif" border="0"> )
<br />
 
K

kaylinsmom

Member
Thats so crazy that you are describing this! I know I have talked to you before because we are sort of in the same situation. Kaylin's toes have always been like that too! In fact she cant stand for me to cute them because of how her nails grow "into" the tips of her toes. It's weird but I just assumed that was the shape of her feet. Her fingers are not like that but her fingers are more "bubbled" on the ends than anyone else in oue family. But, like you said, when you have been looking for answers and trying to figure out a diagnoses for your child, your mind starts seeing all kinds of things! We did find out Kaylins one mutation. Its a rare one and it was the 1500+ panel test. So, right now we are focusing on her reflux and gi problems to see if that will help with her asthma. If it doesnt we will focus more on cf. Its just a waiting game now. Enough to make me want to pull my hair out! Hope you get the results back soon! Keep us posted. Erin
 
K

kaylinsmom

Member
Thats so crazy that you are describing this! I know I have talked to you before because we are sort of in the same situation. Kaylin's toes have always been like that too! In fact she cant stand for me to cute them because of how her nails grow "into" the tips of her toes. It's weird but I just assumed that was the shape of her feet. Her fingers are not like that but her fingers are more "bubbled" on the ends than anyone else in oue family. But, like you said, when you have been looking for answers and trying to figure out a diagnoses for your child, your mind starts seeing all kinds of things! We did find out Kaylins one mutation. Its a rare one and it was the 1500+ panel test. So, right now we are focusing on her reflux and gi problems to see if that will help with her asthma. If it doesnt we will focus more on cf. Its just a waiting game now. Enough to make me want to pull my hair out! Hope you get the results back soon! Keep us posted. Erin
 
K

kaylinsmom

Member
Thats so crazy that you are describing this! I know I have talked to you before because we are sort of in the same situation. Kaylin's toes have always been like that too! In fact she cant stand for me to cute them because of how her nails grow "into" the tips of her toes. It's weird but I just assumed that was the shape of her feet. Her fingers are not like that but her fingers are more "bubbled" on the ends than anyone else in oue family. But, like you said, when you have been looking for answers and trying to figure out a diagnoses for your child, your mind starts seeing all kinds of things! We did find out Kaylins one mutation. Its a rare one and it was the 1500+ panel test. So, right now we are focusing on her reflux and gi problems to see if that will help with her asthma. If it doesnt we will focus more on cf. Its just a waiting game now. Enough to make me want to pull my hair out! Hope you get the results back soon! Keep us posted. Erin
 
E

Eden

New member
Harriett, thanks for providing the link, I found it very helpful. I am so sorry for what you are going through with your son and I truly hope that you get it resolved quickly.
My son's toe nails have always grown into his toes. If they get long enough they will actually cut the skin on the tips of his toes. He hates me cutting them because it hurts for me to try to get the nail clippers under the nail, since it is pushed so closely to the skin. My understanding is that clubbing is something that happens over time. My son's toe nails were like this right out of the womb. The only thing I've noticed with my son, is that the tips of his fingers are pinkish red and shiny, like the skin is being stretched. However, I don't think they look clubbed, I thought maybe that was just a little swelling for some reason. I've never been able to find anything about it online.
 
E

Eden

New member
Harriett, thanks for providing the link, I found it very helpful. I am so sorry for what you are going through with your son and I truly hope that you get it resolved quickly.
My son's toe nails have always grown into his toes. If they get long enough they will actually cut the skin on the tips of his toes. He hates me cutting them because it hurts for me to try to get the nail clippers under the nail, since it is pushed so closely to the skin. My understanding is that clubbing is something that happens over time. My son's toe nails were like this right out of the womb. The only thing I've noticed with my son, is that the tips of his fingers are pinkish red and shiny, like the skin is being stretched. However, I don't think they look clubbed, I thought maybe that was just a little swelling for some reason. I've never been able to find anything about it online.
 
E

Eden

New member
Harriett, thanks for providing the link, I found it very helpful. I am so sorry for what you are going through with your son and I truly hope that you get it resolved quickly.
<br />My son's toe nails have always grown into his toes. If they get long enough they will actually cut the skin on the tips of his toes. He hates me cutting them because it hurts for me to try to get the nail clippers under the nail, since it is pushed so closely to the skin. My understanding is that clubbing is something that happens over time. My son's toe nails were like this right out of the womb. The only thing I've noticed with my son, is that the tips of his fingers are pinkish red and shiny, like the skin is being stretched. However, I don't think they look clubbed, I thought maybe that was just a little swelling for some reason. I've never been able to find anything about it online.
 
C

crickit715

New member
i was told by a cf doc that a person must have clubbed fingers before toes???? ....i was asking him about my daughters "weird little toes" and he wouldnt even look at them, he just looked at her fingers and told me that? what do you make of that???
 
C

crickit715

New member
i was told by a cf doc that a person must have clubbed fingers before toes???? ....i was asking him about my daughters "weird little toes" and he wouldnt even look at them, he just looked at her fingers and told me that? what do you make of that???
 
C

crickit715

New member
i was told by a cf doc that a person must have clubbed fingers before toes???? ....i was asking him about my daughters "weird little toes" and he wouldnt even look at them, he just looked at her fingers and told me that? what do you make of that???
 
H

hmw

New member
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>i was told by a cf doc that a person must have clubbed fingers before toes???? ....i was asking him about my daughters "weird little toes" and he wouldnt even look at them, he just looked at her fingers and told me that? what do you make of that???</end quote></div>
I'm no professional, but I do think that makes sense. I think there is a lot more variety among even 'normal' toes than there is among fingers, so clubbing might be hard to recognize in feet unless it's already present in hands. There are also a lot of reasons for toenails that have a tendency to grow inward that way (wearing shoes that don't fit well being the simplest to other anatomical foot issues.) Keep in mind too that babies and toddlers have really chubby little feet & toes that often have little resemblance to what they'll look like in a few years.

My toes are decidedly strange looking- the ends are all wider than most of the length of the toe and very rounded with wide, rounded nailbeds (not sandal feet but I wear them anyway hehe <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-blush.gif" border="0"> ) but my fingers are not clubbed at all. If you do that test referenced in my link where you hold two opposite fingernails together you get a clear open 'diamond' space inbetween them. By that definition though, my toes are clubbed since they smush right together, no space. However, IMO I think it's just my weird feet. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif" border="0">

When I tried that with Emily this morning w/ her index fingers, I couldn't see a space at all, so I guess I finally was able to see her clubbing.
 
H

hmw

New member
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>i was told by a cf doc that a person must have clubbed fingers before toes???? ....i was asking him about my daughters "weird little toes" and he wouldnt even look at them, he just looked at her fingers and told me that? what do you make of that???</end quote>
I'm no professional, but I do think that makes sense. I think there is a lot more variety among even 'normal' toes than there is among fingers, so clubbing might be hard to recognize in feet unless it's already present in hands. There are also a lot of reasons for toenails that have a tendency to grow inward that way (wearing shoes that don't fit well being the simplest to other anatomical foot issues.) Keep in mind too that babies and toddlers have really chubby little feet & toes that often have little resemblance to what they'll look like in a few years.

My toes are decidedly strange looking- the ends are all wider than most of the length of the toe and very rounded with wide, rounded nailbeds (not sandal feet but I wear them anyway hehe <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-blush.gif" border="0"> ) but my fingers are not clubbed at all. If you do that test referenced in my link where you hold two opposite fingernails together you get a clear open 'diamond' space inbetween them. By that definition though, my toes are clubbed since they smush right together, no space. However, IMO I think it's just my weird feet. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif" border="0">

When I tried that with Emily this morning w/ her index fingers, I couldn't see a space at all, so I guess I finally was able to see her clubbing.
 
H

hmw

New member
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>i was told by a cf doc that a person must have clubbed fingers before toes???? ....i was asking him about my daughters "weird little toes" and he wouldnt even look at them, he just looked at her fingers and told me that? what do you make of that???</end quote>
<br />I'm no professional, but I do think that makes sense. I think there is a lot more variety among even 'normal' toes than there is among fingers, so clubbing might be hard to recognize in feet unless it's already present in hands. There are also a lot of reasons for toenails that have a tendency to grow inward that way (wearing shoes that don't fit well being the simplest to other anatomical foot issues.) Keep in mind too that babies and toddlers have really chubby little feet & toes that often have little resemblance to what they'll look like in a few years.
<br />
<br />My toes are decidedly strange looking- the ends are all wider than most of the length of the toe and very rounded with wide, rounded nailbeds (not sandal feet but I wear them anyway hehe <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-blush.gif" border="0"> ) but my fingers are not clubbed at all. If you do that test referenced in my link where you hold two opposite fingernails together you get a clear open 'diamond' space inbetween them. By that definition though, my toes are clubbed since they smush right together, no space. However, IMO I think it's just my weird feet. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif" border="0">
<br />
<br />When I tried that with Emily this morning w/ her index fingers, I couldn't see a space at all, so I guess I finally was able to see her clubbing.
 
J

jmom

New member
Harriet-
Thanks once again for taking time for your thoughts. You had some good insight concerning the nail bed vs. tip of nail. In addition to the tip being curved over, my daughter's nail bed also curves from there on out like an upside down spoon, so I still wonder. But I found your website link very helpful. Point well taken, though, that toes do come in all different funny shapes and sizes!!! I'm not a doctor and should not read too much into what I see. I should leave that to the experts...
Ricki- you would think a doctor would at least be willing to take a quick look??? Funny, huh? Best wishes to your daughter...she's adorable!
Eden and Kaylin, I really appreciated hearing from you! I often wonder how you are doing in limbo-land like me!!! Glad you can understand the insanity here!
 
J

jmom

New member
Harriet-
Thanks once again for taking time for your thoughts. You had some good insight concerning the nail bed vs. tip of nail. In addition to the tip being curved over, my daughter's nail bed also curves from there on out like an upside down spoon, so I still wonder. But I found your website link very helpful. Point well taken, though, that toes do come in all different funny shapes and sizes!!! I'm not a doctor and should not read too much into what I see. I should leave that to the experts...
Ricki- you would think a doctor would at least be willing to take a quick look??? Funny, huh? Best wishes to your daughter...she's adorable!
Eden and Kaylin, I really appreciated hearing from you! I often wonder how you are doing in limbo-land like me!!! Glad you can understand the insanity here!
 
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