I've gotta admit that I'm confounded by these radical diet changes, especially from a group of people who are known to have difficulty putting on weight. To me, it's not wise to unbalance a diet, nor do I understand why people would go back to a Paleo diet when people died in their mid 30's and were almost always barely scraping by as far as caloric needs in that era. Granted, we have taken things too far these days with giant sized portions and loads of sugars and fats, but swinging too far in the opposite direction can't be good either. You haven't mentioned anything about enzymes. Do you take any? If I suddenly became bloated and had constant hunger my first change would be to my enzyme dose. In your case, though I think of other possible causes such as protein malnutrition, or a kind of starvation response (the body fills the stomach with gas to distend the stomach and trigger the gastric stretch receptors, which alleviates the feeling of being hungry). In any case I would explore 2 options, changing or starting enzymes after the necessary labs your doc will want and adding specific foods back into your diet one at a time and observing any changes (good or bad). This is a controlled way of learning what you can tolerate and what you cannot. It will also test the theory of which foods most affect your mucus production.
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Constant hunger, bloating...help!
- Thread starter AH11201
- Start date
I've gotta admit that I'm confounded by these radical diet changes, especially from a group of people who are known to have difficulty putting on weight. To me, it's not wise to unbalance a diet, nor do I understand why people would go back to a Paleo diet when people died in their mid 30's and were almost always barely scraping by as far as caloric needs in that era. Granted, we have taken things too far these days with giant sized portions and loads of sugars and fats, but swinging too far in the opposite direction can't be good either. You haven't mentioned anything about enzymes. Do you take any? If I suddenly became bloated and had constant hunger my first change would be to my enzyme dose. In your case, though I think of other possible causes such as protein malnutrition, or a kind of starvation response (the body fills the stomach with gas to distend the stomach and trigger the gastric stretch receptors, which alleviates the feeling of being hungry). In any case I would explore 2 options, changing or starting enzymes after the necessary labs your doc will want and adding specific foods back into your diet one at a time and observing any changes (good or bad). This is a controlled way of learning what you can tolerate and what you cannot. It will also test the theory of which foods most affect your mucus production.
I've been adjusting my enzimes for months, no matter how many I would in-take (I went up to 500.000K creon a day), I would still have bloating and gases.
Now i take something like 150.000K (without chocolate).
I understand your confusion about this radical change. I was skeptical as well. But if you just start looking up on the internet you'll find out a huge amount of studies that proves how wrong is our nutrition nowadays. Just think about diabetes, not the CF related, the normal one. It's a purely modern illness, totally caused by our food habits.
The theories of mucus production being influenced by food are mainly based on the work of a german guy, Arnold Ehret. While he referred to all kinds of mucus and specifically, intestines mucus... I noticed that food actually has an impact on my lungs' mucus. Also, not all of the food he suggests as "ok" is actually ok. Again, I've been adding and taking away stuff. Now, if I eat bread, the day after I have more mucus.
As for the problems with wheat and dairies: the main ideas are two. Wheat is now processed into white flour ("00" flour), destroying the cereal and leaving only the poorest part of it. This is done purely for commercial reasons. Yet, while many people tolerate it, this doesn't mean their body doesn't struggle to do so, but they are enough healthy and do not notice it. Keep in mind celiac people: that's a very good example of a food-based disease, and it can be neutralized with the correct diet. Also, not all celiacs are symptomatic from their first months of life. And as for dairies, I've read a quite simple statement: cow's milk is for her calf. Nature didn't mean it for other species. Yes, we can tolerate it - until we become intolerants. And around 30% of people are intolerant to milk.
On a more off-topic note: many studies show that most genetic diseases are actually triggered by our food habits, and could be controlled with the proper diet. A new science is studyng this relation, if I recall correctly that is epigenetics.
Now, I perfectly know this goes againt everything we've been told by our doctors, totally against the diet they recommend us to do, and it is a strong thing to do, to go against one of the "pillars" of our "good health" such is high calories diet, and to assume that it could actually make thigns worse. But, I tryed, I had benefits, and that's what I have, my story.
I know these are many facts and i have some problems being more detailed, both because my main knowledge on this is in Italian - we discussed this for months on the italian CF forum - and because it is vast: there are several aspects to consider.
So if you want to know more feel free to PM/mail me, and I'll try to be more detailed and specific... we're going a bit off-topic here <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif" border="0">
Now i take something like 150.000K (without chocolate).
I understand your confusion about this radical change. I was skeptical as well. But if you just start looking up on the internet you'll find out a huge amount of studies that proves how wrong is our nutrition nowadays. Just think about diabetes, not the CF related, the normal one. It's a purely modern illness, totally caused by our food habits.
The theories of mucus production being influenced by food are mainly based on the work of a german guy, Arnold Ehret. While he referred to all kinds of mucus and specifically, intestines mucus... I noticed that food actually has an impact on my lungs' mucus. Also, not all of the food he suggests as "ok" is actually ok. Again, I've been adding and taking away stuff. Now, if I eat bread, the day after I have more mucus.
As for the problems with wheat and dairies: the main ideas are two. Wheat is now processed into white flour ("00" flour), destroying the cereal and leaving only the poorest part of it. This is done purely for commercial reasons. Yet, while many people tolerate it, this doesn't mean their body doesn't struggle to do so, but they are enough healthy and do not notice it. Keep in mind celiac people: that's a very good example of a food-based disease, and it can be neutralized with the correct diet. Also, not all celiacs are symptomatic from their first months of life. And as for dairies, I've read a quite simple statement: cow's milk is for her calf. Nature didn't mean it for other species. Yes, we can tolerate it - until we become intolerants. And around 30% of people are intolerant to milk.
On a more off-topic note: many studies show that most genetic diseases are actually triggered by our food habits, and could be controlled with the proper diet. A new science is studyng this relation, if I recall correctly that is epigenetics.
Now, I perfectly know this goes againt everything we've been told by our doctors, totally against the diet they recommend us to do, and it is a strong thing to do, to go against one of the "pillars" of our "good health" such is high calories diet, and to assume that it could actually make thigns worse. But, I tryed, I had benefits, and that's what I have, my story.
I know these are many facts and i have some problems being more detailed, both because my main knowledge on this is in Italian - we discussed this for months on the italian CF forum - and because it is vast: there are several aspects to consider.
So if you want to know more feel free to PM/mail me, and I'll try to be more detailed and specific... we're going a bit off-topic here <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif" border="0">
I've been adjusting my enzimes for months, no matter how many I would in-take (I went up to 500.000K creon a day), I would still have bloating and gases.
Now i take something like 150.000K (without chocolate).
I understand your confusion about this radical change. I was skeptical as well. But if you just start looking up on the internet you'll find out a huge amount of studies that proves how wrong is our nutrition nowadays. Just think about diabetes, not the CF related, the normal one. It's a purely modern illness, totally caused by our food habits.
The theories of mucus production being influenced by food are mainly based on the work of a german guy, Arnold Ehret. While he referred to all kinds of mucus and specifically, intestines mucus... I noticed that food actually has an impact on my lungs' mucus. Also, not all of the food he suggests as "ok" is actually ok. Again, I've been adding and taking away stuff. Now, if I eat bread, the day after I have more mucus.
As for the problems with wheat and dairies: the main ideas are two. Wheat is now processed into white flour ("00" flour), destroying the cereal and leaving only the poorest part of it. This is done purely for commercial reasons. Yet, while many people tolerate it, this doesn't mean their body doesn't struggle to do so, but they are enough healthy and do not notice it. Keep in mind celiac people: that's a very good example of a food-based disease, and it can be neutralized with the correct diet. Also, not all celiacs are symptomatic from their first months of life. And as for dairies, I've read a quite simple statement: cow's milk is for her calf. Nature didn't mean it for other species. Yes, we can tolerate it - until we become intolerants. And around 30% of people are intolerant to milk.
On a more off-topic note: many studies show that most genetic diseases are actually triggered by our food habits, and could be controlled with the proper diet. A new science is studyng this relation, if I recall correctly that is epigenetics.
Now, I perfectly know this goes againt everything we've been told by our doctors, totally against the diet they recommend us to do, and it is a strong thing to do, to go against one of the "pillars" of our "good health" such is high calories diet, and to assume that it could actually make thigns worse. But, I tryed, I had benefits, and that's what I have, my story.
I know these are many facts and i have some problems being more detailed, both because my main knowledge on this is in Italian - we discussed this for months on the italian CF forum - and because it is vast: there are several aspects to consider.
So if you want to know more feel free to PM/mail me, and I'll try to be more detailed and specific... we're going a bit off-topic here <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif" border="0">
Now i take something like 150.000K (without chocolate).
I understand your confusion about this radical change. I was skeptical as well. But if you just start looking up on the internet you'll find out a huge amount of studies that proves how wrong is our nutrition nowadays. Just think about diabetes, not the CF related, the normal one. It's a purely modern illness, totally caused by our food habits.
The theories of mucus production being influenced by food are mainly based on the work of a german guy, Arnold Ehret. While he referred to all kinds of mucus and specifically, intestines mucus... I noticed that food actually has an impact on my lungs' mucus. Also, not all of the food he suggests as "ok" is actually ok. Again, I've been adding and taking away stuff. Now, if I eat bread, the day after I have more mucus.
As for the problems with wheat and dairies: the main ideas are two. Wheat is now processed into white flour ("00" flour), destroying the cereal and leaving only the poorest part of it. This is done purely for commercial reasons. Yet, while many people tolerate it, this doesn't mean their body doesn't struggle to do so, but they are enough healthy and do not notice it. Keep in mind celiac people: that's a very good example of a food-based disease, and it can be neutralized with the correct diet. Also, not all celiacs are symptomatic from their first months of life. And as for dairies, I've read a quite simple statement: cow's milk is for her calf. Nature didn't mean it for other species. Yes, we can tolerate it - until we become intolerants. And around 30% of people are intolerant to milk.
On a more off-topic note: many studies show that most genetic diseases are actually triggered by our food habits, and could be controlled with the proper diet. A new science is studyng this relation, if I recall correctly that is epigenetics.
Now, I perfectly know this goes againt everything we've been told by our doctors, totally against the diet they recommend us to do, and it is a strong thing to do, to go against one of the "pillars" of our "good health" such is high calories diet, and to assume that it could actually make thigns worse. But, I tryed, I had benefits, and that's what I have, my story.
I know these are many facts and i have some problems being more detailed, both because my main knowledge on this is in Italian - we discussed this for months on the italian CF forum - and because it is vast: there are several aspects to consider.
So if you want to know more feel free to PM/mail me, and I'll try to be more detailed and specific... we're going a bit off-topic here <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif" border="0">
K
Keepercjr
Guest
Havoc
People died in their mid 30s not from bad nutrition but from injuries. If it was from bad nutrition and health we would not be here as a species. Think about it. If you got gored or fell and got a compound fracture there is a good chance you wouldn't survive it. From what I have read if you were able to not get hurt then you could live quite a while. They also had an extremely varied and nutritious diet of plant matter, high fat wild meat with great omega ratios (both land and sea) and almost zero sugar (except that found in seasonal fruit and the odd honey taken from a hive). No grains, no processed soy, no high fructose corn syrup, no fried foods in rancid oils.
The grain lobby is HUGE. Of course they want you to eat what they produce and boy do we - wheat for breakfast lunch and dinner. And if you do some research into what we call wheat these days you would probably be pretty shocked. It is not the wheat our ancestors ate (which was emmer and einkorn). It is an extremely hybridized dwarf version whose only "good quality" is a huge increase in production. People who give up wheat get immediate and dramatic health benefits. They get rid of the chronic problems that plague most of america. Just because grains are not included in ones diet does not mean it is not a well rounded diet.
I'm not advocating we all take up hunting and gathering - I'm advocating getting rid of the toxic things in our diets and YES I believe that modern wheat is one of those. I eat rice on occasion, and even serve einkorn wheat pasta to my family on occasion but otherwise our diets consist of high quality meat, and veggies (and raw dairy products). I don't see what is unhealthy about that! I'm also getting more confident with using coconut flour (high in fiber, very low in carbs) instead of wheat flour for baked goods.
People died in their mid 30s not from bad nutrition but from injuries. If it was from bad nutrition and health we would not be here as a species. Think about it. If you got gored or fell and got a compound fracture there is a good chance you wouldn't survive it. From what I have read if you were able to not get hurt then you could live quite a while. They also had an extremely varied and nutritious diet of plant matter, high fat wild meat with great omega ratios (both land and sea) and almost zero sugar (except that found in seasonal fruit and the odd honey taken from a hive). No grains, no processed soy, no high fructose corn syrup, no fried foods in rancid oils.
The grain lobby is HUGE. Of course they want you to eat what they produce and boy do we - wheat for breakfast lunch and dinner. And if you do some research into what we call wheat these days you would probably be pretty shocked. It is not the wheat our ancestors ate (which was emmer and einkorn). It is an extremely hybridized dwarf version whose only "good quality" is a huge increase in production. People who give up wheat get immediate and dramatic health benefits. They get rid of the chronic problems that plague most of america. Just because grains are not included in ones diet does not mean it is not a well rounded diet.
I'm not advocating we all take up hunting and gathering - I'm advocating getting rid of the toxic things in our diets and YES I believe that modern wheat is one of those. I eat rice on occasion, and even serve einkorn wheat pasta to my family on occasion but otherwise our diets consist of high quality meat, and veggies (and raw dairy products). I don't see what is unhealthy about that! I'm also getting more confident with using coconut flour (high in fiber, very low in carbs) instead of wheat flour for baked goods.
K
Keepercjr
Guest
Havoc
People died in their mid 30s not from bad nutrition but from injuries. If it was from bad nutrition and health we would not be here as a species. Think about it. If you got gored or fell and got a compound fracture there is a good chance you wouldn't survive it. From what I have read if you were able to not get hurt then you could live quite a while. They also had an extremely varied and nutritious diet of plant matter, high fat wild meat with great omega ratios (both land and sea) and almost zero sugar (except that found in seasonal fruit and the odd honey taken from a hive). No grains, no processed soy, no high fructose corn syrup, no fried foods in rancid oils.
The grain lobby is HUGE. Of course they want you to eat what they produce and boy do we - wheat for breakfast lunch and dinner. And if you do some research into what we call wheat these days you would probably be pretty shocked. It is not the wheat our ancestors ate (which was emmer and einkorn). It is an extremely hybridized dwarf version whose only "good quality" is a huge increase in production. People who give up wheat get immediate and dramatic health benefits. They get rid of the chronic problems that plague most of america. Just because grains are not included in ones diet does not mean it is not a well rounded diet.
I'm not advocating we all take up hunting and gathering - I'm advocating getting rid of the toxic things in our diets and YES I believe that modern wheat is one of those. I eat rice on occasion, and even serve einkorn wheat pasta to my family on occasion but otherwise our diets consist of high quality meat, and veggies (and raw dairy products). I don't see what is unhealthy about that! I'm also getting more confident with using coconut flour (high in fiber, very low in carbs) instead of wheat flour for baked goods.
People died in their mid 30s not from bad nutrition but from injuries. If it was from bad nutrition and health we would not be here as a species. Think about it. If you got gored or fell and got a compound fracture there is a good chance you wouldn't survive it. From what I have read if you were able to not get hurt then you could live quite a while. They also had an extremely varied and nutritious diet of plant matter, high fat wild meat with great omega ratios (both land and sea) and almost zero sugar (except that found in seasonal fruit and the odd honey taken from a hive). No grains, no processed soy, no high fructose corn syrup, no fried foods in rancid oils.
The grain lobby is HUGE. Of course they want you to eat what they produce and boy do we - wheat for breakfast lunch and dinner. And if you do some research into what we call wheat these days you would probably be pretty shocked. It is not the wheat our ancestors ate (which was emmer and einkorn). It is an extremely hybridized dwarf version whose only "good quality" is a huge increase in production. People who give up wheat get immediate and dramatic health benefits. They get rid of the chronic problems that plague most of america. Just because grains are not included in ones diet does not mean it is not a well rounded diet.
I'm not advocating we all take up hunting and gathering - I'm advocating getting rid of the toxic things in our diets and YES I believe that modern wheat is one of those. I eat rice on occasion, and even serve einkorn wheat pasta to my family on occasion but otherwise our diets consist of high quality meat, and veggies (and raw dairy products). I don't see what is unhealthy about that! I'm also getting more confident with using coconut flour (high in fiber, very low in carbs) instead of wheat flour for baked goods.
As others have said, I honestly don't think there's anything radical about the diet we're referring to. Obviously being obsessive about anything isn't healthy, but a paleo or primal style diet seems like it would be perfect for people with CF--high fat, high protein, and lots of vegetables. Not sure what the problem is with that.
As far as enzymes...I am pancreatic insufficient, and am currently taking Zenpep. I take 7 with meals usually and adjust snack doses according to what I'm eating. My doctor suggested for now that I try eight with meals, but I can't imagine the small increase will help all that much. The starvation response idea is interesting, but the bloating happens immediately after I eat and goes down a little with time, so I think that's probably not quite it. I can't recall any tests for food allergies, though, so I'll definitely ask my doctor about that.
As far as enzymes...I am pancreatic insufficient, and am currently taking Zenpep. I take 7 with meals usually and adjust snack doses according to what I'm eating. My doctor suggested for now that I try eight with meals, but I can't imagine the small increase will help all that much. The starvation response idea is interesting, but the bloating happens immediately after I eat and goes down a little with time, so I think that's probably not quite it. I can't recall any tests for food allergies, though, so I'll definitely ask my doctor about that.
As others have said, I honestly don't think there's anything radical about the diet we're referring to. Obviously being obsessive about anything isn't healthy, but a paleo or primal style diet seems like it would be perfect for people with CF--high fat, high protein, and lots of vegetables. Not sure what the problem is with that.
As far as enzymes...I am pancreatic insufficient, and am currently taking Zenpep. I take 7 with meals usually and adjust snack doses according to what I'm eating. My doctor suggested for now that I try eight with meals, but I can't imagine the small increase will help all that much. The starvation response idea is interesting, but the bloating happens immediately after I eat and goes down a little with time, so I think that's probably not quite it. I can't recall any tests for food allergies, though, so I'll definitely ask my doctor about that.
As far as enzymes...I am pancreatic insufficient, and am currently taking Zenpep. I take 7 with meals usually and adjust snack doses according to what I'm eating. My doctor suggested for now that I try eight with meals, but I can't imagine the small increase will help all that much. The starvation response idea is interesting, but the bloating happens immediately after I eat and goes down a little with time, so I think that's probably not quite it. I can't recall any tests for food allergies, though, so I'll definitely ask my doctor about that.
This is a long shot, but I can't process sorbitol. Maybe you have something similar or a fructose intolerance--oops sorry, not intolerance--malabsorbtion. Intolerance is another ball of wax. In small amounts (a piece of gum, a few breath mints, minute amounts of swallowed mouthwash and toothpaste), I get bloating and gas. In larger amounts (meats and baked goods with sorbitol as a humectant), I get major bloating, pain and diarrhea. I figured out the gum/mints part as a kid when I ate a whole roll of Velamints and spent a whole gymnastics practice in the gym's one bathroom :-( I spent a few weeks a few summers ago getting a Dunkin Donuts almost daily and being sick almost daily before I realized the commercial and unadvertised use of sorbitol--lengthening shelf life of sandwiches and baked goods. I think this also explained the yrs of me and the lactose intolerant coworker vying for the remote bathroom back when I worked in NYC and ate lunch and snacks out every day. And I realized the crazy gas implications of even really small amounts a few yrs ago when my dentist suggested I brush with mouthwash instead of toothpaste in order to reduce gum erosion. This doesn't address your hunger symptom. For me, the violent emptying of my stomach resulted in raging hunger, but that doesn't sound like what you describe. Anyway, this seemed worth mentioning. I hope you find some answers.
This is a long shot, but I can't process sorbitol. Maybe you have something similar or a fructose intolerance--oops sorry, not intolerance--malabsorbtion. Intolerance is another ball of wax. In small amounts (a piece of gum, a few breath mints, minute amounts of swallowed mouthwash and toothpaste), I get bloating and gas. In larger amounts (meats and baked goods with sorbitol as a humectant), I get major bloating, pain and diarrhea. I figured out the gum/mints part as a kid when I ate a whole roll of Velamints and spent a whole gymnastics practice in the gym's one bathroom :-( I spent a few weeks a few summers ago getting a Dunkin Donuts almost daily and being sick almost daily before I realized the commercial and unadvertised use of sorbitol--lengthening shelf life of sandwiches and baked goods. I think this also explained the yrs of me and the lactose intolerant coworker vying for the remote bathroom back when I worked in NYC and ate lunch and snacks out every day. And I realized the crazy gas implications of even really small amounts a few yrs ago when my dentist suggested I brush with mouthwash instead of toothpaste in order to reduce gum erosion. This doesn't address your hunger symptom. For me, the violent emptying of my stomach resulted in raging hunger, but that doesn't sound like what you describe. Anyway, this seemed worth mentioning. I hope you find some answers.
M
MCGrad2006
Guest
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>Keepercjr</b></i> Havoc People died in their mid 30s not from bad nutrition but from injuries. If it was from bad nutrition and health we would not be here as a species. Think about it. If you got gored or fell and got a compound fracture there is a good chance you wouldn't survive it. From what I have read if you were able to not get hurt then you could live quite a while. They also had an extremely varied and nutritious diet of plant matter, high fat wild meat with great omega ratios (both land and sea) and almost zero sugar (except that found in seasonal fruit and the odd honey taken from a hive). No grains, no processed soy, no high fructose corn syrup, no fried foods in rancid oils. .</end quote>
i got the impression he was talking specifically about CFer's. If you think about it, back in the 70's and before enzymes people with CF could NOT eat fats and sugars because they were unable to digest them. This more than likely caused lower exercise tolerance, low weight and made people more susceptible to infection. In order to stay healthy, you can have fats and sugars in a controlled amount. I know that if I went on that kind of diet, I would lose a significant amount of weight and be more unhealthy. I gave up milk and lost about 10 pounds at one point. Personally, I would not be able to follow such a strict diet, I would get bored...<img title="Tongue Out" src="include/wysiwyg/tinymce/jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/img/smiley-tongue-out.gif" alt="Tongue Out" border="0" /> But I suppose if it works for you, then do it. If you still feel good then great, but for me, it wouldn't work. I get sicker more often at a lower weight.
i got the impression he was talking specifically about CFer's. If you think about it, back in the 70's and before enzymes people with CF could NOT eat fats and sugars because they were unable to digest them. This more than likely caused lower exercise tolerance, low weight and made people more susceptible to infection. In order to stay healthy, you can have fats and sugars in a controlled amount. I know that if I went on that kind of diet, I would lose a significant amount of weight and be more unhealthy. I gave up milk and lost about 10 pounds at one point. Personally, I would not be able to follow such a strict diet, I would get bored...<img title="Tongue Out" src="include/wysiwyg/tinymce/jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/img/smiley-tongue-out.gif" alt="Tongue Out" border="0" /> But I suppose if it works for you, then do it. If you still feel good then great, but for me, it wouldn't work. I get sicker more often at a lower weight.
M
MCGrad2006
Guest
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>Keepercjr</b></i> Havoc People died in their mid 30s not from bad nutrition but from injuries. If it was from bad nutrition and health we would not be here as a species. Think about it. If you got gored or fell and got a compound fracture there is a good chance you wouldn't survive it. From what I have read if you were able to not get hurt then you could live quite a while. They also had an extremely varied and nutritious diet of plant matter, high fat wild meat with great omega ratios (both land and sea) and almost zero sugar (except that found in seasonal fruit and the odd honey taken from a hive). No grains, no processed soy, no high fructose corn syrup, no fried foods in rancid oils. .</end quote>
i got the impression he was talking specifically about CFer's. If you think about it, back in the 70's and before enzymes people with CF could NOT eat fats and sugars because they were unable to digest them. This more than likely caused lower exercise tolerance, low weight and made people more susceptible to infection. In order to stay healthy, you can have fats and sugars in a controlled amount. I know that if I went on that kind of diet, I would lose a significant amount of weight and be more unhealthy. I gave up milk and lost about 10 pounds at one point. Personally, I would not be able to follow such a strict diet, I would get bored...<img title="Tongue Out" src="include/wysiwyg/tinymce/jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/img/smiley-tongue-out.gif" alt="Tongue Out" border="0" /> But I suppose if it works for you, then do it. If you still feel good then great, but for me, it wouldn't work. I get sicker more often at a lower weight.
i got the impression he was talking specifically about CFer's. If you think about it, back in the 70's and before enzymes people with CF could NOT eat fats and sugars because they were unable to digest them. This more than likely caused lower exercise tolerance, low weight and made people more susceptible to infection. In order to stay healthy, you can have fats and sugars in a controlled amount. I know that if I went on that kind of diet, I would lose a significant amount of weight and be more unhealthy. I gave up milk and lost about 10 pounds at one point. Personally, I would not be able to follow such a strict diet, I would get bored...<img title="Tongue Out" src="include/wysiwyg/tinymce/jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/img/smiley-tongue-out.gif" alt="Tongue Out" border="0" /> But I suppose if it works for you, then do it. If you still feel good then great, but for me, it wouldn't work. I get sicker more often at a lower weight.
AH11201: Bill is correct. Assuming you take Zenpep 20's that's 20,000 units of lipase per meal. I also don't have a problem with high (healthy) fat, high protein and vegetable diets for CFers, but you are getting very little fat, some protein and very few vegetables (according to your earlier post in which referred to chicken, rice and yogurt as your staples). Furthermore, you are having symptoms consistent with malnutrition, which is why I am concerned about your diet.
For every proponent of the paleo diet, you'll find 20 who oppose it. It has been ranked lowest recently by professionals who compared it to other diets, based on overall health, and rates of compliance. This diet is still being debated among professionals.
Caroline: I don't argue that our western diet is grossly distorted out of proportion and heavily reliant on grains. There is evidence of grain in the paleolithic diet and even evidence of refined grains and starches as early as 23,00 years ago. The paleolithic era stretched from ~2.5 million-~10,000 years ago, when agriculture was discovered. It is noted that in that in the 10,000 years since, humans have adapted a greater tolerance for lactose as well as gluten. As far as cause of death, lots of people died of traumatic injury, that is still true today. It is often speculated that people simply did not live long enough to develop cardiac disease, osteoporosis and diabetes. Given the chance, they may have developed these diseases anyway. People also died from TB and measles, then in the neolithic they often died of poor dental health as dental caries increased at that time. We are here now as a species because the birth to death ratio then was much higher, not because of the nutrition. furthermore hunter gatherers were mostly frugivores, which is still true today. The game they kill is mostly small birds, frogs and small mammals (even carrion when available). Not much in the way of protein. Since the success rate of modern hunter gatherers is not very high, it is reasonable to assume it wasn't high several million years ago, considering that it's pretty well accepted that the bow wasn't used prior to 8,000 BCE.
In any case, none of us are nutrition experts. Nor are most of us even competent to interpret published scientific studies, even if one could gather and read all the studies done over the last 30 years regarding the Paleo diet showing both support and opposition. So, I don't think that we are qualified to turn this into a huge debate. My concern is over the OP's diet and her subsequent symptoms. Something is obviously wrong, maybe it's the diet, maybe it's her enzyme dose, maybe it's something totally unrelated. One thing is certain, the OP needs to consult with her doctors and get to the bottom of what's causing her symptoms.
For every proponent of the paleo diet, you'll find 20 who oppose it. It has been ranked lowest recently by professionals who compared it to other diets, based on overall health, and rates of compliance. This diet is still being debated among professionals.
Caroline: I don't argue that our western diet is grossly distorted out of proportion and heavily reliant on grains. There is evidence of grain in the paleolithic diet and even evidence of refined grains and starches as early as 23,00 years ago. The paleolithic era stretched from ~2.5 million-~10,000 years ago, when agriculture was discovered. It is noted that in that in the 10,000 years since, humans have adapted a greater tolerance for lactose as well as gluten. As far as cause of death, lots of people died of traumatic injury, that is still true today. It is often speculated that people simply did not live long enough to develop cardiac disease, osteoporosis and diabetes. Given the chance, they may have developed these diseases anyway. People also died from TB and measles, then in the neolithic they often died of poor dental health as dental caries increased at that time. We are here now as a species because the birth to death ratio then was much higher, not because of the nutrition. furthermore hunter gatherers were mostly frugivores, which is still true today. The game they kill is mostly small birds, frogs and small mammals (even carrion when available). Not much in the way of protein. Since the success rate of modern hunter gatherers is not very high, it is reasonable to assume it wasn't high several million years ago, considering that it's pretty well accepted that the bow wasn't used prior to 8,000 BCE.
In any case, none of us are nutrition experts. Nor are most of us even competent to interpret published scientific studies, even if one could gather and read all the studies done over the last 30 years regarding the Paleo diet showing both support and opposition. So, I don't think that we are qualified to turn this into a huge debate. My concern is over the OP's diet and her subsequent symptoms. Something is obviously wrong, maybe it's the diet, maybe it's her enzyme dose, maybe it's something totally unrelated. One thing is certain, the OP needs to consult with her doctors and get to the bottom of what's causing her symptoms.
AH11201: Bill is correct. Assuming you take Zenpep 20's that's 20,000 units of lipase per meal. I also don't have a problem with high (healthy) fat, high protein and vegetable diets for CFers, but you are getting very little fat, some protein and very few vegetables (according to your earlier post in which referred to chicken, rice and yogurt as your staples). Furthermore, you are having symptoms consistent with malnutrition, which is why I am concerned about your diet.
For every proponent of the paleo diet, you'll find 20 who oppose it. It has been ranked lowest recently by professionals who compared it to other diets, based on overall health, and rates of compliance. This diet is still being debated among professionals.
Caroline: I don't argue that our western diet is grossly distorted out of proportion and heavily reliant on grains. There is evidence of grain in the paleolithic diet and even evidence of refined grains and starches as early as 23,00 years ago. The paleolithic era stretched from ~2.5 million-~10,000 years ago, when agriculture was discovered. It is noted that in that in the 10,000 years since, humans have adapted a greater tolerance for lactose as well as gluten. As far as cause of death, lots of people died of traumatic injury, that is still true today. It is often speculated that people simply did not live long enough to develop cardiac disease, osteoporosis and diabetes. Given the chance, they may have developed these diseases anyway. People also died from TB and measles, then in the neolithic they often died of poor dental health as dental caries increased at that time. We are here now as a species because the birth to death ratio then was much higher, not because of the nutrition. furthermore hunter gatherers were mostly frugivores, which is still true today. The game they kill is mostly small birds, frogs and small mammals (even carrion when available). Not much in the way of protein. Since the success rate of modern hunter gatherers is not very high, it is reasonable to assume it wasn't high several million years ago, considering that it's pretty well accepted that the bow wasn't used prior to 8,000 BCE.
In any case, none of us are nutrition experts. Nor are most of us even competent to interpret published scientific studies, even if one could gather and read all the studies done over the last 30 years regarding the Paleo diet showing both support and opposition. So, I don't think that we are qualified to turn this into a huge debate. My concern is over the OP's diet and her subsequent symptoms. Something is obviously wrong, maybe it's the diet, maybe it's her enzyme dose, maybe it's something totally unrelated. One thing is certain, the OP needs to consult with her doctors and get to the bottom of what's causing her symptoms.
For every proponent of the paleo diet, you'll find 20 who oppose it. It has been ranked lowest recently by professionals who compared it to other diets, based on overall health, and rates of compliance. This diet is still being debated among professionals.
Caroline: I don't argue that our western diet is grossly distorted out of proportion and heavily reliant on grains. There is evidence of grain in the paleolithic diet and even evidence of refined grains and starches as early as 23,00 years ago. The paleolithic era stretched from ~2.5 million-~10,000 years ago, when agriculture was discovered. It is noted that in that in the 10,000 years since, humans have adapted a greater tolerance for lactose as well as gluten. As far as cause of death, lots of people died of traumatic injury, that is still true today. It is often speculated that people simply did not live long enough to develop cardiac disease, osteoporosis and diabetes. Given the chance, they may have developed these diseases anyway. People also died from TB and measles, then in the neolithic they often died of poor dental health as dental caries increased at that time. We are here now as a species because the birth to death ratio then was much higher, not because of the nutrition. furthermore hunter gatherers were mostly frugivores, which is still true today. The game they kill is mostly small birds, frogs and small mammals (even carrion when available). Not much in the way of protein. Since the success rate of modern hunter gatherers is not very high, it is reasonable to assume it wasn't high several million years ago, considering that it's pretty well accepted that the bow wasn't used prior to 8,000 BCE.
In any case, none of us are nutrition experts. Nor are most of us even competent to interpret published scientific studies, even if one could gather and read all the studies done over the last 30 years regarding the Paleo diet showing both support and opposition. So, I don't think that we are qualified to turn this into a huge debate. My concern is over the OP's diet and her subsequent symptoms. Something is obviously wrong, maybe it's the diet, maybe it's her enzyme dose, maybe it's something totally unrelated. One thing is certain, the OP needs to consult with her doctors and get to the bottom of what's causing her symptoms.
Havoc,
First of all, I want to point out that I (the OP) am not the one who only eats chicken, yogurt and rice. In fact, I eat copious amounts of vegetables (my absolute favorite foods are brussels sprouts and eggplant) as well as a lot of protein and healthy fats (by which I also mean natural saturated fats). I agree that the chicken/rice/yogurt diet seems devoid of many nutrients and is not healthy, mentally or physically.
I think most of what you wrote was very wise; none of us are experts, and unfortunately there is very little consensus on any debated topic in nutrition. The best we can do is to go with our guts (sorry, pun intended) and listen to our bodies. I happen to agree with the idea behind the paleo diet, but obviously it's not the only road to optimal health.
First of all, I want to point out that I (the OP) am not the one who only eats chicken, yogurt and rice. In fact, I eat copious amounts of vegetables (my absolute favorite foods are brussels sprouts and eggplant) as well as a lot of protein and healthy fats (by which I also mean natural saturated fats). I agree that the chicken/rice/yogurt diet seems devoid of many nutrients and is not healthy, mentally or physically.
I think most of what you wrote was very wise; none of us are experts, and unfortunately there is very little consensus on any debated topic in nutrition. The best we can do is to go with our guts (sorry, pun intended) and listen to our bodies. I happen to agree with the idea behind the paleo diet, but obviously it's not the only road to optimal health.
Havoc,
First of all, I want to point out that I (the OP) am not the one who only eats chicken, yogurt and rice. In fact, I eat copious amounts of vegetables (my absolute favorite foods are brussels sprouts and eggplant) as well as a lot of protein and healthy fats (by which I also mean natural saturated fats). I agree that the chicken/rice/yogurt diet seems devoid of many nutrients and is not healthy, mentally or physically.
I think most of what you wrote was very wise; none of us are experts, and unfortunately there is very little consensus on any debated topic in nutrition. The best we can do is to go with our guts (sorry, pun intended) and listen to our bodies. I happen to agree with the idea behind the paleo diet, but obviously it's not the only road to optimal health.
First of all, I want to point out that I (the OP) am not the one who only eats chicken, yogurt and rice. In fact, I eat copious amounts of vegetables (my absolute favorite foods are brussels sprouts and eggplant) as well as a lot of protein and healthy fats (by which I also mean natural saturated fats). I agree that the chicken/rice/yogurt diet seems devoid of many nutrients and is not healthy, mentally or physically.
I think most of what you wrote was very wise; none of us are experts, and unfortunately there is very little consensus on any debated topic in nutrition. The best we can do is to go with our guts (sorry, pun intended) and listen to our bodies. I happen to agree with the idea behind the paleo diet, but obviously it's not the only road to optimal health.