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Controversial Topic
- Thread starter ladybug
- Start date
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>Ender</b></i>
Um just out of curiousity, if a muslim had cf, we s/he not be allowed to take enzymes, seeing as they are of porcine origin? I've always wondered this.
Man that would suck. You don't take enzymes, you die, and if you do, you go to hell.
<img src=""></end quote></div>
Like anything you have the extremist. Local Hasidic Jews arent suppose to do certain things on the sabbath. Some consider that to mean neglect your health etc (going to the hospital or doctor) while others put health & life above it.
Um just out of curiousity, if a muslim had cf, we s/he not be allowed to take enzymes, seeing as they are of porcine origin? I've always wondered this.
Man that would suck. You don't take enzymes, you die, and if you do, you go to hell.
<img src=""></end quote></div>
Like anything you have the extremist. Local Hasidic Jews arent suppose to do certain things on the sabbath. Some consider that to mean neglect your health etc (going to the hospital or doctor) while others put health & life above it.
Another thing Sean, computer models are great and all, but do you possibly believe you can create a molecule, and then create a model to see how it intereacts with an eye? Or the brain? Or any other organ? I mean...think about this. The human body is way too complex to simulate every outcome a possible drug may have, and for that, you need animals.
Even for cosmetic reasons. How many here use hair products or skin products that aren't 100% natural? You wanna expose your eyes to that without it haveing any test what so ever on a living eye?
It's great and all that you guys actually stop and think about this, but this is a reality. I dunno, to me it's kinda comforting that the FDA has a one year toxicological test done on all drugs before it is approved.
I dunno, just be realistic about it i guess is all i have to say
Even for cosmetic reasons. How many here use hair products or skin products that aren't 100% natural? You wanna expose your eyes to that without it haveing any test what so ever on a living eye?
It's great and all that you guys actually stop and think about this, but this is a reality. I dunno, to me it's kinda comforting that the FDA has a one year toxicological test done on all drugs before it is approved.
I dunno, just be realistic about it i guess is all i have to say
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>Allie</b></i>
I'm Jewish, and we can't have pork either, and Ry was allowed to take enzymes. There are exceptions for life threatening things, much like Amish are allowed electricity for nebulizers, etc.</end quote></div>
Religion <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif" border="0">
I'm Jewish, and we can't have pork either, and Ry was allowed to take enzymes. There are exceptions for life threatening things, much like Amish are allowed electricity for nebulizers, etc.</end quote></div>
Religion <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif" border="0">
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>Ender</b></i>
Um just out of curiousity, if a muslim had cf, we s/he not be allowed to take enzymes, seeing as they are of porcine origin? I've always wondered this.
Man that would suck. You don't take enzymes, you die, and if you do, you go to hell.
<img src=""></end quote></div>
Just like Jim Henson, if you are stupid enough to let institutionalized religious beliefs get in the way of your health, sorry you deserve what comes to you.
And to whoever stated they don't feel rats/mice are animals: Um, what?
And yes, I know currently we don't take chinese hamster ovaries to make every batch of pulmozyme, but that was what it was derived from before, so saying "it's made from chinese hamster ovaries (directly told to me by my doctor when it first hit the scene), isn't what most would call incorrect at a base level.
I know there is no way we would be allowed to use condemned prisoners who gave up their rights when they committed heinous crimes against humanity, due to the Bill of Rights, and the ACLU, and the bleeding heart types out there, but that would honestly be the best solution to this moral/ethical problem confronting a supposed "enlightened non cruel" society. Sorry, maybe i'm an evil monster, but I value the life and happiness of a rat or a monkey or whatever creature that hasn't raped and murdered a 7 year old girl over a piece of genetic waste that has. I feel that once you have done such terrible things to humanity, you forfeit all of the protections afforded to you by our bill of rights/constitution/the geneva convention.
It's really sad that we let such wonderful, perfect research models sit around and rot on the vine so to speak. It really pisses me off.
And just like the "scientist" who posted in here knows, animal models are FAR from accurate in ascertaining what drugs/substances would be harmful towards humans, and in what amount, and in which delivery method to our bodies. Computer models are better suited for that, but even then they are flawed because they only function on what data we feed to them, and if our data is mostly based on animal models, that means it's bad from the very inception of computer models.
We as a society need to get past that whole philosophy that just because you are a human being, you deserve to be here and not be harmed, just because you are a human being. I'm not refering to prisoners who made a bad judgement call and tried to sell drugs or something foolish like that. We all make mistakes. I am refering to the true, genuine monsters of society who have zero regard for our rules, and no respect for peoples safety. I'm talking child rapists, rapists in general, murderers, serial killers, pedophiles, kiddie porn peddlers, and the many other examples.
Instead of putting them away in a little cage to suck up our finances, or wait 20+ years to be put to death and suck up our finances, we need to use them for the logical best solution, to benefit society, and leave sentient creatures who have done nothing to us alone.
And no i'm not some ultra eco/animal rights nazi. I eat meat, I understand my place in the food chain, but we aren't talking about that. We are talking about using improper models of completely different life forms to ascertain if some medicines/substances are harmful to a completely different life form, we explapolate data from such activities that is extremely far from accurate, and painfully harm creatures that shouldn't be harmed in the process.
Yes, our As*es are very deeply up our rear ends in this country.
Um just out of curiousity, if a muslim had cf, we s/he not be allowed to take enzymes, seeing as they are of porcine origin? I've always wondered this.
Man that would suck. You don't take enzymes, you die, and if you do, you go to hell.
<img src=""></end quote></div>
Just like Jim Henson, if you are stupid enough to let institutionalized religious beliefs get in the way of your health, sorry you deserve what comes to you.
And to whoever stated they don't feel rats/mice are animals: Um, what?
And yes, I know currently we don't take chinese hamster ovaries to make every batch of pulmozyme, but that was what it was derived from before, so saying "it's made from chinese hamster ovaries (directly told to me by my doctor when it first hit the scene), isn't what most would call incorrect at a base level.
I know there is no way we would be allowed to use condemned prisoners who gave up their rights when they committed heinous crimes against humanity, due to the Bill of Rights, and the ACLU, and the bleeding heart types out there, but that would honestly be the best solution to this moral/ethical problem confronting a supposed "enlightened non cruel" society. Sorry, maybe i'm an evil monster, but I value the life and happiness of a rat or a monkey or whatever creature that hasn't raped and murdered a 7 year old girl over a piece of genetic waste that has. I feel that once you have done such terrible things to humanity, you forfeit all of the protections afforded to you by our bill of rights/constitution/the geneva convention.
It's really sad that we let such wonderful, perfect research models sit around and rot on the vine so to speak. It really pisses me off.
And just like the "scientist" who posted in here knows, animal models are FAR from accurate in ascertaining what drugs/substances would be harmful towards humans, and in what amount, and in which delivery method to our bodies. Computer models are better suited for that, but even then they are flawed because they only function on what data we feed to them, and if our data is mostly based on animal models, that means it's bad from the very inception of computer models.
We as a society need to get past that whole philosophy that just because you are a human being, you deserve to be here and not be harmed, just because you are a human being. I'm not refering to prisoners who made a bad judgement call and tried to sell drugs or something foolish like that. We all make mistakes. I am refering to the true, genuine monsters of society who have zero regard for our rules, and no respect for peoples safety. I'm talking child rapists, rapists in general, murderers, serial killers, pedophiles, kiddie porn peddlers, and the many other examples.
Instead of putting them away in a little cage to suck up our finances, or wait 20+ years to be put to death and suck up our finances, we need to use them for the logical best solution, to benefit society, and leave sentient creatures who have done nothing to us alone.
And no i'm not some ultra eco/animal rights nazi. I eat meat, I understand my place in the food chain, but we aren't talking about that. We are talking about using improper models of completely different life forms to ascertain if some medicines/substances are harmful to a completely different life form, we explapolate data from such activities that is extremely far from accurate, and painfully harm creatures that shouldn't be harmed in the process.
Yes, our As*es are very deeply up our rear ends in this country.
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>Ender</b></i>
Another thing Sean, computer models are great and all, but do you possibly believe you can create a molecule, and then create a model to see how it intereacts with an eye? Or the brain? Or any other organ? I mean...think about this. The human body is way too complex to simulate every outcome a possible drug may have, and for that, you need animals.
Even for cosmetic reasons. How many here use hair products or skin products that aren't 100% natural? You wanna expose your eyes to that without it haveing any test what so ever on a living eye?
It's great and all that you guys actually stop and think about this, but this is a reality. I dunno, to me it's kinda comforting that the FDA has a one year toxicological test done on all drugs before it is approved.
I dunno, just be realistic about it i guess is all i have to say</end quote></div>
Which would be ok, *IF* animal models properly reflected the *HUMAN* body. I could also sit in my driveway and stare at my car, and then stare at my refridgerator. Both share some similarities in their general makeup physically, but a car is far from a refridgerator in many many ways. And no that wasn't the best analogy, but the point is the same. Just because something is a mammal and has some organs like we do, doesn't mean all substances will have the same outcome in both models. No computers won't be able to simulate everything, and as I said much of that data fed to computers was gained via previous animal testing, so that is flawed also...But using computers in place of 100% animal testing would atleast cut down on some of the unneeded pain.
If *I* were king, i'd use those hardcore genetic wastes for what they should be used for.
Another thing Sean, computer models are great and all, but do you possibly believe you can create a molecule, and then create a model to see how it intereacts with an eye? Or the brain? Or any other organ? I mean...think about this. The human body is way too complex to simulate every outcome a possible drug may have, and for that, you need animals.
Even for cosmetic reasons. How many here use hair products or skin products that aren't 100% natural? You wanna expose your eyes to that without it haveing any test what so ever on a living eye?
It's great and all that you guys actually stop and think about this, but this is a reality. I dunno, to me it's kinda comforting that the FDA has a one year toxicological test done on all drugs before it is approved.
I dunno, just be realistic about it i guess is all i have to say</end quote></div>
Which would be ok, *IF* animal models properly reflected the *HUMAN* body. I could also sit in my driveway and stare at my car, and then stare at my refridgerator. Both share some similarities in their general makeup physically, but a car is far from a refridgerator in many many ways. And no that wasn't the best analogy, but the point is the same. Just because something is a mammal and has some organs like we do, doesn't mean all substances will have the same outcome in both models. No computers won't be able to simulate everything, and as I said much of that data fed to computers was gained via previous animal testing, so that is flawed also...But using computers in place of 100% animal testing would atleast cut down on some of the unneeded pain.
If *I* were king, i'd use those hardcore genetic wastes for what they should be used for.
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>ladybug</b></i>
As far as rats and mice in the home... yes, there ARE humane traps. They don't work all that well however, but I would be likely to exhaust all possible means of a humane end to our cohabitation before ending their lives, and actually, were it not for them carrying some very toxic viruses that can hurt myself, my family, and my pets, I certainly would let them live in my home (call me crazy). </end quote></div>
Thanks for the answer. I was not aware of 'humane' traps but can't say I've really spent much time in the mouse trap isle lately either. I won't call you crazy for letting them live in your home. I was, however, picturing you making little beds out of match boxes for your little friends and sliding cheese into the half circle hole in the wall<img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0">-lol
As for mice being rodents... after I posted the first time I asked my daughter "Are mice rodents or animals?" to which she replied "I thought rodents <i>were</i> animals" Oh well, I can't win 'em all.
As far as rats and mice in the home... yes, there ARE humane traps. They don't work all that well however, but I would be likely to exhaust all possible means of a humane end to our cohabitation before ending their lives, and actually, were it not for them carrying some very toxic viruses that can hurt myself, my family, and my pets, I certainly would let them live in my home (call me crazy). </end quote></div>
Thanks for the answer. I was not aware of 'humane' traps but can't say I've really spent much time in the mouse trap isle lately either. I won't call you crazy for letting them live in your home. I was, however, picturing you making little beds out of match boxes for your little friends and sliding cheese into the half circle hole in the wall<img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0">-lol
As for mice being rodents... after I posted the first time I asked my daughter "Are mice rodents or animals?" to which she replied "I thought rodents <i>were</i> animals" Oh well, I can't win 'em all.
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>Lynda</b></i>
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>ladybug</b></i>
As far as rats and mice in the home... yes, there ARE humane traps. They don't work all that well however, but I would be likely to exhaust all possible means of a humane end to our cohabitation before ending their lives, and actually, were it not for them carrying some very toxic viruses that can hurt myself, my family, and my pets, I certainly would let them live in my home (call me crazy). </end quote></div>
Thanks for the answer. I was not aware of 'humane' traps but can't say I've really spent much time in the mouse trap isle lately either. I won't call you crazy for letting them live in your home. I was, however, picturing you making little beds out of match boxes for your little friends and sliding cheese into the half circle hole in the wall<img src="">-lol
As for mice being rodents... after I posted the first time I asked my daughter "Are mice rodents or animals?" to which she replied "I thought rodents <i>were</i> animals" Oh well, I can't win 'em all.</end quote></div>
Heh your daughter pwned you hard. Are you going to take that laying down? I say show her whats up and cut off the Big Comfy Couch for a week!
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>ladybug</b></i>
As far as rats and mice in the home... yes, there ARE humane traps. They don't work all that well however, but I would be likely to exhaust all possible means of a humane end to our cohabitation before ending their lives, and actually, were it not for them carrying some very toxic viruses that can hurt myself, my family, and my pets, I certainly would let them live in my home (call me crazy). </end quote></div>
Thanks for the answer. I was not aware of 'humane' traps but can't say I've really spent much time in the mouse trap isle lately either. I won't call you crazy for letting them live in your home. I was, however, picturing you making little beds out of match boxes for your little friends and sliding cheese into the half circle hole in the wall<img src="">-lol
As for mice being rodents... after I posted the first time I asked my daughter "Are mice rodents or animals?" to which she replied "I thought rodents <i>were</i> animals" Oh well, I can't win 'em all.</end quote></div>
Heh your daughter pwned you hard. Are you going to take that laying down? I say show her whats up and cut off the Big Comfy Couch for a week!
Hmm....thinking about the numbers...
Waste-of-skin prisoners; I haven't thought enough about it. It would be pretty valuable scientificially, because I think we all agree that animals are not the same as people. I'm not saying either one is more valuable. I personally could not stomach it, since my faith in the criminal justice system isn't there. Moral opinions aside, there are cases where animals are better than humans for experimentation--especially in genetics, because you don't want to wait 15 years for something to reproduce (nor would you want a prisoner like that to reproduce). Plus, there aren't enough of said prisoners to do more than a few studies. We would actually need a lot more, statistically.
And I think there is a basic difference in saying 'made from chinese hamster ovaries', and saying 'made from cells derived from a chinese hamster ovary.' The former implies organs-plural, and therefore lots of real live hamsters. The latter implies an immortalized cell line in which no more than one hamster gave up the ghost, ever. Just a difference in numbers, though.
Waste-of-skin prisoners; I haven't thought enough about it. It would be pretty valuable scientificially, because I think we all agree that animals are not the same as people. I'm not saying either one is more valuable. I personally could not stomach it, since my faith in the criminal justice system isn't there. Moral opinions aside, there are cases where animals are better than humans for experimentation--especially in genetics, because you don't want to wait 15 years for something to reproduce (nor would you want a prisoner like that to reproduce). Plus, there aren't enough of said prisoners to do more than a few studies. We would actually need a lot more, statistically.
And I think there is a basic difference in saying 'made from chinese hamster ovaries', and saying 'made from cells derived from a chinese hamster ovary.' The former implies organs-plural, and therefore lots of real live hamsters. The latter implies an immortalized cell line in which no more than one hamster gave up the ghost, ever. Just a difference in numbers, though.
"Please forgive me. Does anyone have any suggestions how to get over these feelings so I may give? "
My suggestion would be to have the same feelings you have when you give your money to the pharmacy when you buy the drugs that are helping you. If you can justify giving money to pay for the drugs, you should be able to easily justify giving money to an organization that helps make the development of those drugs possible. Anyway, that 's how I justify it.
Debi
54 w/CF
My suggestion would be to have the same feelings you have when you give your money to the pharmacy when you buy the drugs that are helping you. If you can justify giving money to pay for the drugs, you should be able to easily justify giving money to an organization that helps make the development of those drugs possible. Anyway, that 's how I justify it.
Debi
54 w/CF
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>SeanDavis</b></i>
Heh your daughter pwned you hard. Are you going to take that laying down? I say show her whats up and cut off the Big Comfy Couch for a week!</end quote></div>
The Big Comfy Couch...is that show even still around? It was quite lame if I remember correctly & I doubt that I'd allow her to waste her time on it anyway-lol
She's at the age where phone privileges would hurt though. Hmmm....you gave me an idea.
Heh your daughter pwned you hard. Are you going to take that laying down? I say show her whats up and cut off the Big Comfy Couch for a week!</end quote></div>
The Big Comfy Couch...is that show even still around? It was quite lame if I remember correctly & I doubt that I'd allow her to waste her time on it anyway-lol
She's at the age where phone privileges would hurt though. Hmmm....you gave me an idea.
Wait, OP, are you saying that you're against animal testing, but you take CF meds anyway?
If that's true, you're a hypocrit.
You're against something, but when it benefits you, you'll do it? You've got to be kidding me....
Reminds me of politicians that talk about global warming and drive hummers and SUV's around.
If that's true, you're a hypocrit.
You're against something, but when it benefits you, you'll do it? You've got to be kidding me....
Reminds me of politicians that talk about global warming and drive hummers and SUV's around.
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>ladybug</b></i>
I do agree with you. I have to make peace with the fact that what I use on a daily basis did come at the expense of some form of life. I think I sort of have.
?</end quote></div>
Do you ever eat vegetables?
They are "some form of life." They're plants!
Careful with that slippery slope of "they're a lower form of life...." because you'll lose credibility.....
I do agree with you. I have to make peace with the fact that what I use on a daily basis did come at the expense of some form of life. I think I sort of have.
?</end quote></div>
Do you ever eat vegetables?
They are "some form of life." They're plants!
Careful with that slippery slope of "they're a lower form of life...." because you'll lose credibility.....
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>ladybug</b></i>
I just wish I could make peace with the fundraising issue so I could raise money and awareness for CFF. Its almost like I'm battling with myself on this and really nothing anyone can say or do will make a difference, cause I agree and disagree with BOTH sides. urgh....
</end quote></div>
Here's how you make peace with it - you're benefitting from it! You probably don't want to be a hypocrit, but you are. So FUNDRAISE.
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here....
I just wish I could make peace with the fundraising issue so I could raise money and awareness for CFF. Its almost like I'm battling with myself on this and really nothing anyone can say or do will make a difference, cause I agree and disagree with BOTH sides. urgh....
</end quote></div>
Here's how you make peace with it - you're benefitting from it! You probably don't want to be a hypocrit, but you are. So FUNDRAISE.
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here....
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>jenhum</b></i>
I don't feel the same way you do about this particular situation, but I respect the fact that it's how you feel. However, I think that by using the medicines and treatments discovered by the CFF, you have already made your choice. IMO, it seems a bit selfish to reap the benefits of the research they do, but refuse to donate to support that research. That is just my opinion though, take it for what it is worth <img src="">.</end quote></div>
YES! We have a winner!!!!!!!!
I don't feel the same way you do about this particular situation, but I respect the fact that it's how you feel. However, I think that by using the medicines and treatments discovered by the CFF, you have already made your choice. IMO, it seems a bit selfish to reap the benefits of the research they do, but refuse to donate to support that research. That is just my opinion though, take it for what it is worth <img src="">.</end quote></div>
YES! We have a winner!!!!!!!!
Ladybug, you gotta do what you gotta do. Follow your conscience. If you don't feel that you can donate to the CFF, then find someplace else. Unfortunately, CF is a genetic disease, so studies need to be done using similar cells. Can't test some of the medications and treatments using cells from a carrot.
I tend to look at the big picture -- find a cure or a long term treatment option. The CFF puts over 90% of donations toward research -- can't say that about a LOT of charities or organizations.
On a personal note, I've contacted the CFA of ND and have never ever gotten a response from them. Contacted them several times during the legislative sessions regarding social service issues, newborn screening, medications in the classroom and have heard nada. Add to that the the person who runs the CFA has very very differing political views (very conservative far right) than we do and has written several flaming editorials to the local newspapers, I personally don't feel like associating with their organization. But that's a personal choice. I'm sure they do good work helping families, but I put my money elsewhere.
I tend to look at the big picture -- find a cure or a long term treatment option. The CFF puts over 90% of donations toward research -- can't say that about a LOT of charities or organizations.
On a personal note, I've contacted the CFA of ND and have never ever gotten a response from them. Contacted them several times during the legislative sessions regarding social service issues, newborn screening, medications in the classroom and have heard nada. Add to that the the person who runs the CFA has very very differing political views (very conservative far right) than we do and has written several flaming editorials to the local newspapers, I personally don't feel like associating with their organization. But that's a personal choice. I'm sure they do good work helping families, but I put my money elsewhere.
Ladybug,
I think you have some valid issues. I am not a big animal rights person, but I do believe they should be treated properly.
I think what you are doing now is enough. You are raising funds to help families that can not afford medications, and helping out local CF families. Be happy with that. You are not just sitting around doing nothing. You are helping your fellow CFers!!! I feel you are doing your part to help. Why should anyone feel you are not helping just because you do not support the exact same foundation as them?
Seana
I think you have some valid issues. I am not a big animal rights person, but I do believe they should be treated properly.
I think what you are doing now is enough. You are raising funds to help families that can not afford medications, and helping out local CF families. Be happy with that. You are not just sitting around doing nothing. You are helping your fellow CFers!!! I feel you are doing your part to help. Why should anyone feel you are not helping just because you do not support the exact same foundation as them?
Seana
It is a tough spot and I am a total animal rights freak.
However I haven't had to face the same situation as you because I have other reasons for not supporting the CFF. I totally disagree with their "poor terminally ill child won't live to be an adult if you don't give us money" fundraising. They hate to admit that there are adults with CF out there, chronically ill adults don't raise money quite like terminally ill kids!
I also think they need to have higher standards for their CF clinics, I was not impressed with the care I was given at a CFF accredited clinic. THey need to make standards, guidelines etc more strict and universal.
They also overlook some potentional treatments because they aren't money making enough...ie GSH, Mucomyst etc.
They do nothing to help families with CF
I would much rather give my money to the Milan Foundation, PACFI/Burke's Tour etc
For the record, the animal rights person that I am will not take pulmozyme and for awhile used vegetarian/plant based pacnreatic enzymes(they worked too!)
However I haven't had to face the same situation as you because I have other reasons for not supporting the CFF. I totally disagree with their "poor terminally ill child won't live to be an adult if you don't give us money" fundraising. They hate to admit that there are adults with CF out there, chronically ill adults don't raise money quite like terminally ill kids!
I also think they need to have higher standards for their CF clinics, I was not impressed with the care I was given at a CFF accredited clinic. THey need to make standards, guidelines etc more strict and universal.
They also overlook some potentional treatments because they aren't money making enough...ie GSH, Mucomyst etc.
They do nothing to help families with CF
I would much rather give my money to the Milan Foundation, PACFI/Burke's Tour etc
For the record, the animal rights person that I am will not take pulmozyme and for awhile used vegetarian/plant based pacnreatic enzymes(they worked too!)
To anon above:
Interesting things you write about. Some of that I knew, others I didn't. I have supported the Milan Foundation as well. I basically support anything that supports people with CF that doesn't do research at this point.
Liza:
I am so sorry you've had such a bad experience with CFA of ND. My family and I have been raising funds for them since I was about 5 years old (when CFF pulled the local chapter from North Dakota since it "wasn't big enough").... They've always been really good to me. They helped pay my way through college with scholarships and have helped financially when I've had to go out of state for medical treatments or hospitalizations (room and board, etc.). I do know that they have been less than accomodating to people in ND if they do not fundraise on a regular basis. They only allow their funds to benefit those who help to raise the funds. So, perhaps that is the problem when they did not return your correspondance... though I DO NOT agree with that... how difficult is it to respond whether you're a member or not?!? This upsets me that they treated you this way. I also did not know about K.K.'s right wing political affiliation. WOW! The things we don't know about people.... hmmmm....
Feel free to email or PM me if you want to chat more about this or want to get involved with them. They really do help once you're "in". (Although, I'm pretty sure after your sour experience with them, this is the last thing you want to do.)
Interesting things you write about. Some of that I knew, others I didn't. I have supported the Milan Foundation as well. I basically support anything that supports people with CF that doesn't do research at this point.
Liza:
I am so sorry you've had such a bad experience with CFA of ND. My family and I have been raising funds for them since I was about 5 years old (when CFF pulled the local chapter from North Dakota since it "wasn't big enough").... They've always been really good to me. They helped pay my way through college with scholarships and have helped financially when I've had to go out of state for medical treatments or hospitalizations (room and board, etc.). I do know that they have been less than accomodating to people in ND if they do not fundraise on a regular basis. They only allow their funds to benefit those who help to raise the funds. So, perhaps that is the problem when they did not return your correspondance... though I DO NOT agree with that... how difficult is it to respond whether you're a member or not?!? This upsets me that they treated you this way. I also did not know about K.K.'s right wing political affiliation. WOW! The things we don't know about people.... hmmmm....
Feel free to email or PM me if you want to chat more about this or want to get involved with them. They really do help once you're "in". (Although, I'm pretty sure after your sour experience with them, this is the last thing you want to do.)