Does the vest always help?

[Scarlett81]

the vest works better for me than manual-except if I have a bad exacerbation or have one problem area-then isolated clapping on that area is best.
using the vet properly gives me alot of sputum with each treatment.
And no, I don't do aerosals while doing my vest anymore b/c I can't take as deep of breaths to get the med in. I think its b/c I'm pregnant-the pressure is building. So my therapies take longer.

 

[cdale613]

I also find manual chest PT far more effective than the vest. Here's why:

1. Manual Chest PT forces me to stop every two minutes and cough. I find it is way to easy to go through a vest treatment without making myself cough.

2. The positions of manual CPT target specific lobes of my lungs, and use gravity to drain them. Sitting up straight in a chair for the vest does not help lower lobes drain at all.

3. My physical therapist can hit me much harder than the vest can, and all of the force is directed specifically, instead of diffused around my entire torso.

4. In terms of patient compliance, my PT shows up and removes any question of when or how long I'll do airway clearance. I've never had compliance problems, but it makes it easier for me to keep my routine if I have someone showing up every day. The vest doesn't do that.

In addition, as Melissa stated, you have to be able to find the vest setting that is most effective for you.... however, I have never met a CF dr., PT, or even Hilrom representative who could give me useful advice about how to do this. It is fine to tell an adult who knows their body well enough to figure out their "setting" but I do not see how this is possible when dealing with young children and asking them to figure out which setting is best for them.

Obviously, the vest is way more convenient than CPT, but I sincerely question any "research" showing that vest is more effective. I've read the "studies" conducted by the vest manufacturer, and have never seen a large, long term study. Most studies I've seen involve very small numbers of patients for a very short time period. The measures they use are questionable, and do not look at broader measures of patient health and outcomes.

I think it is funny when I hear things like "the vest works better except when I have an exacerbation" If CPT is better than the vest at dealing with exacerbations and getting you back to baseline, isn't it most likely that CPT is better at preventing exacerbations???

I know the vest is easier, and that its nice to be able sit at the computer while doing it, and its certainly easier for parents who would otherwise have to do CPT. However, for me personally, CPT is the most effective airways clearance tool I have.

One last point... a lot of people say they like the vest because it makes them more independent. In my view, independence comes from having the highest lung function possible... whether or not I need another person to help me get there is secondary. Everyone needs someone.

Chris

26 m.w/CF

 

[cdale613]

I also find manual chest PT far more effective than the vest. Here's why:

1. Manual Chest PT forces me to stop every two minutes and cough. I find it is way to easy to go through a vest treatment without making myself cough.

2. The positions of manual CPT target specific lobes of my lungs, and use gravity to drain them. Sitting up straight in a chair for the vest does not help lower lobes drain at all.

3. My physical therapist can hit me much harder than the vest can, and all of the force is directed specifically, instead of diffused around my entire torso.

4. In terms of patient compliance, my PT shows up and removes any question of when or how long I'll do airway clearance. I've never had compliance problems, but it makes it easier for me to keep my routine if I have someone showing up every day. The vest doesn't do that.

In addition, as Melissa stated, you have to be able to find the vest setting that is most effective for you.... however, I have never met a CF dr., PT, or even Hilrom representative who could give me useful advice about how to do this. It is fine to tell an adult who knows their body well enough to figure out their "setting" but I do not see how this is possible when dealing with young children and asking them to figure out which setting is best for them.

Obviously, the vest is way more convenient than CPT, but I sincerely question any "research" showing that vest is more effective. I've read the "studies" conducted by the vest manufacturer, and have never seen a large, long term study. Most studies I've seen involve very small numbers of patients for a very short time period. The measures they use are questionable, and do not look at broader measures of patient health and outcomes.

I think it is funny when I hear things like "the vest works better except when I have an exacerbation" If CPT is better than the vest at dealing with exacerbations and getting you back to baseline, isn't it most likely that CPT is better at preventing exacerbations???

I know the vest is easier, and that its nice to be able sit at the computer while doing it, and its certainly easier for parents who would otherwise have to do CPT. However, for me personally, CPT is the most effective airways clearance tool I have.

One last point... a lot of people say they like the vest because it makes them more independent. In my view, independence comes from having the highest lung function possible... whether or not I need another person to help me get there is secondary. Everyone needs someone.

Chris

26 m.w/CF

 

[cdale613]

I also find manual chest PT far more effective than the vest. Here's why:

1. Manual Chest PT forces me to stop every two minutes and cough. I find it is way to easy to go through a vest treatment without making myself cough.

2. The positions of manual CPT target specific lobes of my lungs, and use gravity to drain them. Sitting up straight in a chair for the vest does not help lower lobes drain at all.

3. My physical therapist can hit me much harder than the vest can, and all of the force is directed specifically, instead of diffused around my entire torso.

4. In terms of patient compliance, my PT shows up and removes any question of when or how long I'll do airway clearance. I've never had compliance problems, but it makes it easier for me to keep my routine if I have someone showing up every day. The vest doesn't do that.

In addition, as Melissa stated, you have to be able to find the vest setting that is most effective for you.... however, I have never met a CF dr., PT, or even Hilrom representative who could give me useful advice about how to do this. It is fine to tell an adult who knows their body well enough to figure out their "setting" but I do not see how this is possible when dealing with young children and asking them to figure out which setting is best for them.

Obviously, the vest is way more convenient than CPT, but I sincerely question any "research" showing that vest is more effective. I've read the "studies" conducted by the vest manufacturer, and have never seen a large, long term study. Most studies I've seen involve very small numbers of patients for a very short time period. The measures they use are questionable, and do not look at broader measures of patient health and outcomes.

I think it is funny when I hear things like "the vest works better except when I have an exacerbation" If CPT is better than the vest at dealing with exacerbations and getting you back to baseline, isn't it most likely that CPT is better at preventing exacerbations???

I know the vest is easier, and that its nice to be able sit at the computer while doing it, and its certainly easier for parents who would otherwise have to do CPT. However, for me personally, CPT is the most effective airways clearance tool I have.

One last point... a lot of people say they like the vest because it makes them more independent. In my view, independence comes from having the highest lung function possible... whether or not I need another person to help me get there is secondary. Everyone needs someone.

Chris

26 m.w/CF

 

[coltsfan715]

Well said Chris.

I will also say that I find I cough up much much more with treatments alone than I do with the vest when I use it. I have gotten a handheld percussor in recent months (after using one for the first time at my last hospital stay and LOVING it) and I have decided to let THAT be my main source of CPT.

It is similar to the vest in that it can be set to a higher frequency than a person's hands can move, but it is like manual CPT in that it gets one centralized area at a time. The only problem we have come across is the fact that the handle shakes and if you set the frequency too high it can make your handand arm tingle or go numb from the shaking. I love it though I am able to get more up with the percussor than I ever was able too with the vest. Heck I got more uphuff coughing on my own than I ever did using the vest.

Also a bright side to the percussor - at least the one that I got - it came with a cup attachment for CPT and a rounded somewhat flattened attachment that you can use as a massage type device, so if you are having back pain you can use that as well.

I know I have talked to my docs about the CPT situation and the nurses in our office seem to prefer manual CPT over other forms of CPT - even the vest sooo who knows. The docs don't seem to have a preference as long as we are getting the junk up lol.

Take Care,
Lindsey

 

[coltsfan715]

Well said Chris.

I will also say that I find I cough up much much more with treatments alone than I do with the vest when I use it. I have gotten a handheld percussor in recent months (after using one for the first time at my last hospital stay and LOVING it) and I have decided to let THAT be my main source of CPT.

It is similar to the vest in that it can be set to a higher frequency than a person's hands can move, but it is like manual CPT in that it gets one centralized area at a time. The only problem we have come across is the fact that the handle shakes and if you set the frequency too high it can make your handand arm tingle or go numb from the shaking. I love it though I am able to get more up with the percussor than I ever was able too with the vest. Heck I got more uphuff coughing on my own than I ever did using the vest.

Also a bright side to the percussor - at least the one that I got - it came with a cup attachment for CPT and a rounded somewhat flattened attachment that you can use as a massage type device, so if you are having back pain you can use that as well.

I know I have talked to my docs about the CPT situation and the nurses in our office seem to prefer manual CPT over other forms of CPT - even the vest sooo who knows. The docs don't seem to have a preference as long as we are getting the junk up lol.

Take Care,
Lindsey

 

[coltsfan715]

Well said Chris.

I will also say that I find I cough up much much more with treatments alone than I do with the vest when I use it. I have gotten a handheld percussor in recent months (after using one for the first time at my last hospital stay and LOVING it) and I have decided to let THAT be my main source of CPT.

It is similar to the vest in that it can be set to a higher frequency than a person's hands can move, but it is like manual CPT in that it gets one centralized area at a time. The only problem we have come across is the fact that the handle shakes and if you set the frequency too high it can make your handand arm tingle or go numb from the shaking. I love it though I am able to get more up with the percussor than I ever was able too with the vest. Heck I got more uphuff coughing on my own than I ever did using the vest.

Also a bright side to the percussor - at least the one that I got - it came with a cup attachment for CPT and a rounded somewhat flattened attachment that you can use as a massage type device, so if you are having back pain you can use that as well.

I know I have talked to my docs about the CPT situation and the nurses in our office seem to prefer manual CPT over other forms of CPT - even the vest sooo who knows. The docs don't seem to have a preference as long as we are getting the junk up lol.

Take Care,
Lindsey

 

[lightNlife]

I have one of the first available vests and I hardly use it anymore. I tend to have problems localized to one area of my lungs, so good old fashioned "thumps" are what I prefer. All that shaking from the vest just doesn't work deeply enough for me.

My husband regularly beats me...lol I also play French horn (lots of sustained breathing) as a method of airway clearance and exercise.

 

[lightNlife]

I have one of the first available vests and I hardly use it anymore. I tend to have problems localized to one area of my lungs, so good old fashioned "thumps" are what I prefer. All that shaking from the vest just doesn't work deeply enough for me.

My husband regularly beats me...lol I also play French horn (lots of sustained breathing) as a method of airway clearance and exercise.

 

[lightNlife]

I have one of the first available vests and I hardly use it anymore. I tend to have problems localized to one area of my lungs, so good old fashioned "thumps" are what I prefer. All that shaking from the vest just doesn't work deeply enough for me.

My husband regularly beats me...lol I also play French horn (lots of sustained breathing) as a method of airway clearance and exercise.

 

[jfarel]

I never had success with the vest until recently. Sometimes it really takes a long time to get stuff up. Lately I've been doing it at least 2.5 hours per day. Usually in two or three sessions. But a lot of times I find that it takes 45 min to an hour before stuff is loosened up. That's my experience. Oh, I will add since reading Amy's piece on how to do the vest ((dr. Warrick) I use the low frequency's with much success.

 

[jfarel]

I never had success with the vest until recently. Sometimes it really takes a long time to get stuff up. Lately I've been doing it at least 2.5 hours per day. Usually in two or three sessions. But a lot of times I find that it takes 45 min to an hour before stuff is loosened up. That's my experience. Oh, I will add since reading Amy's piece on how to do the vest ((dr. Warrick) I use the low frequency's with much success.

 

[jfarel]

I never had success with the vest until recently. Sometimes it really takes a long time to get stuff up. Lately I've been doing it at least 2.5 hours per day. Usually in two or three sessions. But a lot of times I find that it takes 45 min to an hour before stuff is loosened up. That's my experience. Oh, I will add since reading Amy's piece on how to do the vest ((dr. Warrick) I use the low frequency's with much success.

 

[CaliSally]

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[CaliSally]

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[CaliSally]

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[catboogie]

hey chris,

i'm glad that CPT works well for you and i agree with you that independence comes from being healthy.

however, i wanted to add that the inCourage vest has a "quick start" session that goes from low to high frequencies and back again. they take the frequencies that are most effective for CFers, add a couple of additional frequencies on the ends and you have a program that will likely be effective for many types of individuals. on top of this you can adjust the pressure to what is comfortable for you. point is, with this device, you have a LOT more control than with other HFCC devices. you can even create programs to have sessions that are totally personalized.

that's all!

 

[catboogie]

hey chris,

i'm glad that CPT works well for you and i agree with you that independence comes from being healthy.

however, i wanted to add that the inCourage vest has a "quick start" session that goes from low to high frequencies and back again. they take the frequencies that are most effective for CFers, add a couple of additional frequencies on the ends and you have a program that will likely be effective for many types of individuals. on top of this you can adjust the pressure to what is comfortable for you. point is, with this device, you have a LOT more control than with other HFCC devices. you can even create programs to have sessions that are totally personalized.

that's all!

 

[catboogie]

hey chris,

i'm glad that CPT works well for you and i agree with you that independence comes from being healthy.

however, i wanted to add that the inCourage vest has a "quick start" session that goes from low to high frequencies and back again. they take the frequencies that are most effective for CFers, add a couple of additional frequencies on the ends and you have a program that will likely be effective for many types of individuals. on top of this you can adjust the pressure to what is comfortable for you. point is, with this device, you have a LOT more control than with other HFCC devices. you can even create programs to have sessions that are totally personalized.

that's all!