How did you know?

D

dbtoo

New member
Bill, Bill... hahaha... do I detect a note of defensiveness in what you are writing? I don't have any need for your doc to call me, as credentialed as he is, he'd be way too narcissistic for me to deal with!

This thread was asking about what worked individually. For some it's 10 pills per meal, for others, it's no pills per meal... for most it's somewhere in between... it's between the individual patient and their doctors.
 
D

dbtoo

New member
Bill, Bill... hahaha... do I detect a note of defensiveness in what you are writing? I don't have any need for your doc to call me, as credentialed as he is, he'd be way too narcissistic for me to deal with!

This thread was asking about what worked individually. For some it's 10 pills per meal, for others, it's no pills per meal... for most it's somewhere in between... it's between the individual patient and their doctors.
 
P

Printer

Active member
Defensiveness, no.

Being told that I should NOT be on a HIGH FAT DIET, by someone who should know better, pisses me off.

I'm afraid some people here might think that you sound smart, follow what you say and cause their health to deteriate.
 
P

Printer

Active member
Defensiveness, no.

Being told that I should NOT be on a HIGH FAT DIET, by someone who should know better, pisses me off.

I'm afraid some people here might think that you sound smart, follow what you say and cause their health to deteriate.
 
J

just1more

New member
Bill, nobody is saying your GI is wrong and the condescening comments are not valuable to the site. This was a thread about how to wean off enzymes; dbtoo posted about that. However, to clarify the manufacturer of Creon & the FDA have established a maximum safe level of 10,000units/kg/day. At your stated weight that means the manufacturer would only condone a total intake of ~700,000units/day, not 1.2 million. Fortunately, physicians are not bound by the manufacturer and make decisions based upon the patient. Allowing you to take what you need, and dbtoo as well.
Obviously you are not a candidate for weaning off, neither is my son. However, there are some that chose to manage their diet & enzymes closely and are able to reduce the need.
 
J

just1more

New member
Bill, nobody is saying your GI is wrong and the condescening comments are not valuable to the site. This was a thread about how to wean off enzymes; dbtoo posted about that. However, to clarify the manufacturer of Creon & the FDA have established a maximum safe level of 10,000units/kg/day. At your stated weight that means the manufacturer would only condone a total intake of ~700,000units/day, not 1.2 million. Fortunately, physicians are not bound by the manufacturer and make decisions based upon the patient. Allowing you to take what you need, and dbtoo as well.
Obviously you are not a candidate for weaning off, neither is my son. However, there are some that chose to manage their diet & enzymes closely and are able to reduce the need.
 
P

Printer

Active member
Tom: To further clarify, If you look at the second post on this thread you will see my comments on reduclng the amount of enzymes taken. Those comments were addressed to Debbie and were in direct response to her question. If you read the literature from Abbott in regard to the dosage of Creon you will see dosage guidelines for people with CF, you will also see a section with guidelines for people with Chronic Pancretitis. Unfortnally I fall into both catagories, therefore a different dosage. Being told what to eat and not eat for breakfast is PERSONAL, telling me that my diet is probably another reason I'm PI is PERSONAL. Besides, Tom, I really don't need to be told the purpose of enzymes. Hell, I didn't tell him about the need for fats to absorbe fat soluable vitamins. Bill

EDIT BY INCOMUDROX - There is no need for taunting other members.
 
P

Printer

Active member
Tom: To further clarify, If you look at the second post on this thread you will see my comments on reduclng the amount of enzymes taken. Those comments were addressed to Debbie and were in direct response to her question. If you read the literature from Abbott in regard to the dosage of Creon you will see dosage guidelines for people with CF, you will also see a section with guidelines for people with Chronic Pancretitis. Unfortnally I fall into both catagories, therefore a different dosage. Being told what to eat and not eat for breakfast is PERSONAL, telling me that my diet is probably another reason I'm PI is PERSONAL. Besides, Tom, I really don't need to be told the purpose of enzymes. Hell, I didn't tell him about the need for fats to absorbe fat soluable vitamins. Bill

EDIT BY INCOMUDROX - There is no need for taunting other members.
 
H

Havoc

New member
As I read it, db suggested that your high dose was because of your PI and your high fat diet. Not that your high fat diet caused your PI. Nor did db tell you what to eat, rather (again) made the connection between your high fat diet and the lipase dosage you require.

If you require a high fat diet to maintain your weight, that's alright for you. The current trend among dieticians, as I have experienced it, is the suggestion that fats should be included in the diet, but more healthy fats such as those from avocados or nuts, etc.

If your doctor feels otherwise, then that's great. Do what works for you. For me, I have changed my diet to be inline with the more "middle of the road" approach. I have limited my fat intake and the fats I do get are from the healthier sources mentioned before. I've also limited a lot of simple carbs. As such, I have seen a reduction in the number of enzymes I need to take, yet my weight has been maintained. Furthermore, my GI symptoms have lessened substantially. No more chronic heartburn, no more loose stools, no more problems with gas and bloating.

To each his own, but let's keep emotion out of debate.
 
H

Havoc

New member
As I read it, db suggested that your high dose was because of your PI and your high fat diet. Not that your high fat diet caused your PI. Nor did db tell you what to eat, rather (again) made the connection between your high fat diet and the lipase dosage you require.

If you require a high fat diet to maintain your weight, that's alright for you. The current trend among dieticians, as I have experienced it, is the suggestion that fats should be included in the diet, but more healthy fats such as those from avocados or nuts, etc.

If your doctor feels otherwise, then that's great. Do what works for you. For me, I have changed my diet to be inline with the more "middle of the road" approach. I have limited my fat intake and the fats I do get are from the healthier sources mentioned before. I've also limited a lot of simple carbs. As such, I have seen a reduction in the number of enzymes I need to take, yet my weight has been maintained. Furthermore, my GI symptoms have lessened substantially. No more chronic heartburn, no more loose stools, no more problems with gas and bloating.

To each his own, but let's keep emotion out of debate.
 
J

JustDucky

New member
I base the number of enzymes on fat content as not taking enough of them for a fatty meal would make me most miserable. I am not severely PI at all, moderately so, perhaps more on the milder spectrum because I am able to maintain even gain weight . If I eat a greasy meal like pizza, then those Creons better be handy (I take 4 Creon 12's with a meal like that). If I am eating a single apple, then to be honest, I don't take any enzymes. I have to be most careful whenever I eat out though...it can be tough to gauge just how much fat is in a meal that I haven't prepared. Common sense usually prevails, you can bet that BBQ ribs are pretty high in fat as well as my beloved Reuben with french fries, so I tend to take extra Creons to prevent catastrophie.
It took me time to get it right....too much, and I would get constipated, too little....well, you guys know <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif" border="0">
Good luck, it is a trial and error process....I am sure you will find your happy medium

Jenn 40 w/CF
 
J

JustDucky

New member
I base the number of enzymes on fat content as not taking enough of them for a fatty meal would make me most miserable. I am not severely PI at all, moderately so, perhaps more on the milder spectrum because I am able to maintain even gain weight . If I eat a greasy meal like pizza, then those Creons better be handy (I take 4 Creon 12's with a meal like that). If I am eating a single apple, then to be honest, I don't take any enzymes. I have to be most careful whenever I eat out though...it can be tough to gauge just how much fat is in a meal that I haven't prepared. Common sense usually prevails, you can bet that BBQ ribs are pretty high in fat as well as my beloved Reuben with french fries, so I tend to take extra Creons to prevent catastrophie.
It took me time to get it right....too much, and I would get constipated, too little....well, you guys know <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif" border="0">
Good luck, it is a trial and error process....I am sure you will find your happy medium

Jenn 40 w/CF
 
I

Incomudrox

New member
As Jonathan stated and others this thread has gotten off track. I put it back on track so let's keep it friendly and answer the OP's question! We don't need a bunch of keyboard warriors in here. -Frank
 
I

Incomudrox

New member
As Jonathan stated and others this thread has gotten off track. I put it back on track so let's keep it friendly and answer the OP's question! We don't need a bunch of keyboard warriors in here. -Frank
 
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