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How long would it take???
- Thread starter anonymous
- Start date
ClashPunk82
New member
Thanks Emily, it's been tough. I guess I am still kind of denying the fact that he isn't going to do it. It's kind of getting me through it right now. I guess I still have hope he might change his mind but I know that won't happen. So for right now even though I support him I am still kind of not really thinking about it because if I really think about it, that it's going to be too overwhelming and I will go nutty.
I don't want to die, nor am I thinking about "not fighting", however, this question is very interesting to me, especially being diagonosed "late"....the medicines that appear to "help" my condidition (i.e. pulmozyme) make my everyday living miserable (I cough consantly, but my FEV's come up 15 pts.)...so, I view the orignal question from that standpoint....if I were to do nothing, how long would it take vs. if I were to do "everything", how long would it take? For me it comes down to a "quality of life" issue. I am NOT feeling suicidal in anyway and hope if the original poster is that they seek some professional guidance and help.
Amy 36 w/CF (and most recently CF related arthritis - at least I know why my joints are "killing" me now...LOL)
Amy 36 w/CF (and most recently CF related arthritis - at least I know why my joints are "killing" me now...LOL)
All of us have CF, but only a portion of us have financial difficulties due to the cost burdens of CF, and the physical limitation that hinder us from earning our keep financially and socially. In addition, even fewer of us have no family support, no living parents, no siblings, and no relatives. Furthermore, as the disease becomes more externally apparent, some of us will lose our friends to their irrational fear or choice of avoiding death in any form. Even a smaller percentage will also have spousal difficulties, in which we though we would never expect dissention and possible desertion from the support structure of our marriage. So, if you have all these challenges, and your CF is progressing, and your hope for something good is evaporating, by all means do what you feel is worthy of your cause and utilizes the best of your sustainable energy.
In some ancient cultures, typically the Eskimos, where there are limited amount of environmental resources to sustain the clan or community, when the elders of the tribe inhibit the allocation of resources to the youth or the newly born by virtue of their existence in the tribe, the elder(s) of the tribe gather enough resources to last him/her/them a week, and they leave the tribe by pushing off on an ice drift. In other words, when one member risked the sustainability of the community, based on the resources of the environment, that member would leave the tribe to die in order for the community to continue to thrive or survive. This is no longer practiced, but the idea of the measure holds merit, and is completely overlooked in our society which falsely believes resources are fully accessible and unlimited.
This concept seems harsh to some considering many believe our modern civilization has virtually unlimited resources. However, resources aren't unlimited in our modern society, and for some access to existing resources are so encumbered by obstacles and transaction costs there just as well be no resources at all.
This is where we come in, or at least my story as a CF patient enters the picture. I often question whether if the time for me to push off on an ice drift is approaching.
Is the cost of my existence worth the cost to my friends, family, and community? Every dollar allocate toward me is a dollar that could be allocated to a new child born with CF, a child who's future is not yet defined with the continuing technological advancements. Conversely, there is little likelihood that developing technologies will aid the burden I present to my community or me.
This concept seems harsh to some considering many believe our modern civilization has virtually unlimited resources. However, resources aren't unlimited in our modern society, and for some access to existing resources are so encumbered by obstacles and transaction costs there just as well be no resources at all.
This is where we come in, or at least my story as a CF patient enters the picture. I often question whether if the time for me to push off on an ice drift is approaching.
Is the cost of my existence worth the cost to my friends, family, and community? Every dollar allocate toward me is a dollar that could be allocated to a new child born with CF, a child who's future is not yet defined with the continuing technological advancements. Conversely, there is little likelihood that developing technologies will aid the burden I present to my community or me.
Mockingbird
New member
beowulf, I'll tell you something I found out. The only reason people support you is because they want to. Pushing off on an ice drift isn't going to do anything except let everyone around you down. Or, another way of saying it, if they wanted you to push off, then they never would have supported you in the first place.
Besides, sacrificing yourself in that fashion is purely self-centered, no offence. As long as you're still alive you can still contribute, still give back to the people who have done so much to support you. If you're dead, then it's all for nothing.
Jarod
22 w/cf
Besides, sacrificing yourself in that fashion is purely self-centered, no offence. As long as you're still alive you can still contribute, still give back to the people who have done so much to support you. If you're dead, then it's all for nothing.
Jarod
22 w/cf
I don't know "Mockingbird" how challenging your situation to you is or how strong the people who support you are, but you shouldn't presume that my support system is similar to yours. I have never denied the truth of the fact that this disease is a burden to me and that I in turn am a burden on others. This reality check has strengthened my resolve to care for my self and those I love, and help others in turn. Also fully accepting and understanding the process of CF, I have given the best of myself continuously and without limit to others as my health permitted.
But all things come to an end. And though my time is not now, when it is you can be confident that I will not encumber the resources of my family, my friends, the community in which I live, or the society at hand. You can stand on your box proclaiming my statements and credo are self-serving, but if you look deeper you will see that to give for others, for the sake of others, for the benefit of others is part of the life cycle. Nowhere, at no point did I even imply that my choice was to end my pain or reduce my suffering. Nor did I mention I was going to take my life. If anything I suggested I would harness my energy and resources and give my will to the disease rather than fight it. Perhaps more depth of character and your reading my statements free of the pedestrian taboos and cultural biases you believe in, would assist you to read more clearly and with full transparency the truth in my thoughts and words. Lastly, I am an "elder" CF patient. I was coughing up blood and cups full of mucus, and watching my CF friends die by the time you were born, so perhaps you should hesitate before you impose your morals and judgments on me.
But all things come to an end. And though my time is not now, when it is you can be confident that I will not encumber the resources of my family, my friends, the community in which I live, or the society at hand. You can stand on your box proclaiming my statements and credo are self-serving, but if you look deeper you will see that to give for others, for the sake of others, for the benefit of others is part of the life cycle. Nowhere, at no point did I even imply that my choice was to end my pain or reduce my suffering. Nor did I mention I was going to take my life. If anything I suggested I would harness my energy and resources and give my will to the disease rather than fight it. Perhaps more depth of character and your reading my statements free of the pedestrian taboos and cultural biases you believe in, would assist you to read more clearly and with full transparency the truth in my thoughts and words. Lastly, I am an "elder" CF patient. I was coughing up blood and cups full of mucus, and watching my CF friends die by the time you were born, so perhaps you should hesitate before you impose your morals and judgments on me.
Mockingbird
New member
It doesn't matter who you are or what your situation is. What I said stands for everybody. =-) Don't think telling me your age or how much blood you cough up is going to intimidate me. And stop being so dramatic. We all know what it's like to be a burden on others; even people without CF. No matter what your condition is, you always have a choice. You can do what you can to help others with their own burdens, or you can just push off on a block of ice. Think what you want about me, I don't mind, this is just what I believe.
Jarod
22 w/cf
Jarod
22 w/cf
Mocking-bird,
I am sorry you feel I am trying to intimidate you. Dialogue, disagreement, nor criticism, by my definition as I have extended, are forms of intimidation.
Distilled, the actions I describe and reference are choices. Choices that I perceive to be sound and orderly, and respectful to those that continue to live. You disagree. You feel one entity's life is of greater value in its conclusion than that of an existing or infantile life. I do not.
In one's closing act, I feel embracing death is not only courageous, but life affirming. Yes, life affirming! For death is apart of life and in embracing death one embraces the full concept and process of life, one accepts the full cycle of life. You feel life is of greater value than death, that to give in to death is selfish and weak. I do not agree.
You feel fighting to live another day some how helps those that continue to live, that only in living another day can one help others. I disagree. I feel when you embrace death, you teach the living that death is not to be feared, but accepted. I feel that the act of death and the process of accepting death can be helpful and healing to those that continue to live. You do not. You feel by fighting to live another day, despite the death knell tolling, you are helping others with their own burdens, would that be their fear and burden of death?
So we disagree. Mazel tov
I am sorry you feel I am trying to intimidate you. Dialogue, disagreement, nor criticism, by my definition as I have extended, are forms of intimidation.
Distilled, the actions I describe and reference are choices. Choices that I perceive to be sound and orderly, and respectful to those that continue to live. You disagree. You feel one entity's life is of greater value in its conclusion than that of an existing or infantile life. I do not.
In one's closing act, I feel embracing death is not only courageous, but life affirming. Yes, life affirming! For death is apart of life and in embracing death one embraces the full concept and process of life, one accepts the full cycle of life. You feel life is of greater value than death, that to give in to death is selfish and weak. I do not agree.
You feel fighting to live another day some how helps those that continue to live, that only in living another day can one help others. I disagree. I feel when you embrace death, you teach the living that death is not to be feared, but accepted. I feel that the act of death and the process of accepting death can be helpful and healing to those that continue to live. You do not. You feel by fighting to live another day, despite the death knell tolling, you are helping others with their own burdens, would that be their fear and burden of death?
So we disagree. Mazel tov
Quoof,
I think you have it right. You seem to bearer of reason the debate between Beowulf and Mockingbird. You shouldn't horde all that reason to yourself. You should at least give some of it to Beowulf and some of it to Mockingbird.
I look forward to reading more commentary from you in the future.
Thanks for the sanity, in such as seemingly sanity free environment.
LBS
I think you have it right. You seem to bearer of reason the debate between Beowulf and Mockingbird. You shouldn't horde all that reason to yourself. You should at least give some of it to Beowulf and some of it to Mockingbird.
I look forward to reading more commentary from you in the future.
Thanks for the sanity, in such as seemingly sanity free environment.
LBS
Mockingbird
New member
No, I don't think giving into death is selfish and weak, not necessarily. I'm saying the idea that anyone is worth more dead than alive is wrong, no matter how big of a burden they are. That is what you were saying, that by dying you'd make it better for everyone else. That's all.
Jarod
22 w/cf
Jarod
22 w/cf
<blockquote>Quote<br><hr><i>Originally posted by: <b>Beowulf</b></i>In some ancient cultures, typically the Eskimos, where there are limited amount of environmental resources to sustain the clan or community, when the elders of the tribe inhibit the allocation of resources to the youth or the newly born by virtue of their existence in the tribe, the elder(s) of the tribe gather enough resources to last him/her/them a week, and they leave the tribe by pushing off on an ice drift. In other words, when one member risked the sustainability of the community, based on the resources of the environment, that member would leave the tribe to die in order for the community to continue to thrive or survive. This is no longer practiced, but the idea of the measure holds merit, and is completely overlooked in our society which falsely believes resources are fully accessible and unlimited. This concept seems harsh to some considering many believe our modern civilization has virtually unlimited resources. However, resources aren't unlimited in our modern society, and for some access to existing resources are so encumbered by obstacles and transaction costs there just as well be no resources at all. This is where we come in, or at least my story as a CF patient enters the picture. I often question whether if the time for me to push off on an ice drift is approaching. Is the cost of my existence worth the cost to my friends, family, and community? Every dollar allocate toward me is a dollar that could be allocated to a new child born with CF, a child who's future is not yet defined with the continuing technological advancements. Conversely, there is little likelihood that developing technologies will aid the burden I present to my community or me.<hr></blockquote>ok i don't hav time to read all these now b/c it's late but a ? for bewulf : do u really believe this stuff you preach? and how long have you believed it?
Tommy,
I do believe in what I speak of...they are, I believe, higher ideals that I ascribe to. I have embraced these particular ideas/concepts and taken them on as my own when I first learned of them over 16-18 years ago. I wasn't aware I was preaching them. I though I was merely contributing my thoughts to a dialogue, and defending my beliefs upon being questioned. I think Mockingbird appreciates our discourse despite our differences, I know I do.
Sincerely,
Beowulf
I do believe in what I speak of...they are, I believe, higher ideals that I ascribe to. I have embraced these particular ideas/concepts and taken them on as my own when I first learned of them over 16-18 years ago. I wasn't aware I was preaching them. I though I was merely contributing my thoughts to a dialogue, and defending my beliefs upon being questioned. I think Mockingbird appreciates our discourse despite our differences, I know I do.
Sincerely,
Beowulf
<blockquote>Quote<br><hr>How long would it take? If for some random reason you couldn't or decided not to take your enzymes, and breathing treatments (pulmozyme, albuterol, theravest, etc.), or any antibiotics, if you let mother nature take over and didn't fight the effects CF with your usual battery of medicaitons and therapy, how long do you think you would last before you expired/died? <hr></blockquote>
For me it would take about 3-4 months, and they would be easy months at all.
I couldn't make it on survivor, if for no other reason than i would be kicked off due to the intrusion of my coughing, gas, and the "Hawk" (hawker, spit, mucus, Hudson Hawk -the worst movie made, Hawk a bird of prey)
For me it would take about 3-4 months, and they would be easy months at all.
I couldn't make it on survivor, if for no other reason than i would be kicked off due to the intrusion of my coughing, gas, and the "Hawk" (hawker, spit, mucus, Hudson Hawk -the worst movie made, Hawk a bird of prey)