How much is your life worth?

anonymous

New member
What is it that many Americans say...? "You can't put a price on life."

So, could someone tell me how it is moral to put a price on prescription meds, hospital stays, ect.? Why is this acceptable to pay to get well. Shouldn't that be a basic human right? Is it not immoral to turn someone away at a hospital because they can't pay? How productive can one person be if they are too sick to work? Why would the United States allow for people to be ill, when it is more profitable to have a healthy working population?

Here's an idea for a constitutional ammendment: XXVIII: The right of all citizens of the United States, to have equal access to free healthcare, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State.
 

anonymous

New member
I absolutely second that!!! Our government should be ashamed, we are one of the wealthiest countries in the world, and have no national health care for our citizens. It is disgraceful. We have 45 million people with no insurance. Some are working 2 jobs. This is such a hot button issue for me, I have had to struggle to keep myself insured, as I am sure many other cf patients have. Even with insurance sometimes copays are so high people are filing for bankruptcy.... We need coverage for EVERYONE now. Let's stop worrying about who is marrying whom and stop spending money on an immoral war in Iraq and provide one of the basic necessities for our citizens. Whew, I feel better. Thanks for listening.

Kim
40 w/cf
 

anonymous

New member
Hello,

I am in Canada and my son has CF. He is covered free for EVERYTHING...his meds/visits/air compressor-even his scandi shakes !!! I absolutely agree that healthcare should be free in your country. But remember we pay a high price for free healthcare-but I completely support it. I am a Nurse and work in the public system and I really am proud of our social benefits.

Good luck<img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0"> and God Bless<img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0">
 

tessa55454

New member
May I ask how much in taxes, etc? Seriously in my lifetime I may move out of the US, because of health insurance. I am not sure where yet, but I can almost see myself doing so. Sometimes I feel as if I am a slave to health insurance. I know it's always going to be a situation in my life, but you know...there HAS TO BE BETTER ALTERNATIVES... it is absolutley insane...

Tessa 27w/cf
 

anonymous

New member
It depends on the Province you live in. I live in Quebec and I pay 30% in inciome tax + every purchase I make i pay 15% ( there are some exeptions like food ...). But we have alot of extras in our province. For example our maternity leave is paid for a full Year!!! It is 55% of our gross salary + Dads get 5 weeks paid at 55% of gross salary. Also daycare=7$ a day cuz the Gov pays the rest. And ofcourse healthcare is free too. But I think the province of Alberta has a much lower tax bracket.
 

anonymous

New member
That is incredible, I am in the wrong country! hehe, I love the united states, don't get me wrong. But I am in the military and being forced to fight a war that I not only don't believe in but a war that is completely ubsurd and has so much personal interest vested into the cause-by the president. There are things that even the military insurance won't cover, it is really rediculious and just 4 months after I have a baby I am expected to leave my newborn home with my spouse or at daycare and go out to sea-That's part of what is wrong with the world today. Parents being absent, not because they want to but because financially the HAVE TO.

Ok, and there's my venting.

Julie
 

tessa55454

New member
wow..that is really screwed up. But I am sure it makes sense to someone right.... no one I am friends with.

Tessa 27 w/cf
 

anonymous

New member
I totally agree. I think healthcare should be number one priority for our government expenses. I think it's inhumane to just let people die because they dont have the money. The government gives away millions of dollars to everything else, for example (Iraqies) why not give it to what counts most, the American people's wellfare.
 

anonymous

New member
Sadly, a person's life in this country is worth one measly vote. Unless he's rich, of course, in which case it's worth a congressman's entire voting record. It's no surprise that the government in this me-first society disregards sick and disabled people when so many <i>individuals</i> view them simply as obstacles. Have you ever observed, when you're coughing and slow-moving, how strangers treat you? I have: "Don't give me whatever you've got, and don't gum up the works." Why would we expect our government not to reflect this attitude? And after all, what kind of voting-bloc are the sick? That's why you have to hand it to the AIDS activists, who are an exception. They have (no offense, by any means; I'm for them) gained attention and support completely out of proportion to the disease's frequency in this country. If only we had that kind of momentum. (See you in Washington.)

Q
 

roblake29

New member
Here in the UK we bitch about the National Health Service (NHS) being crap, but I think anyone who has ever also lived in the US (like myself) can see the benefits of free health care. It is nice to think that you dont have to sign forms to be seen. Having said that, if you are wealthy, you can go for private cover (i.e. pay for it) and the waiting lists for operations etc are shorter, and the quality probably slightly higher (although the NHS would probably disagree)! It was just one of the few reasons I was glad to leave the US!

Rob 24 wcf
 

Emeraldmirror

New member
Here in Ontario we pay about 15% taxes.. i don't know about income tax i do know that i pay too much for cpp when it's most likely i will never be on a pension plan.. but that's besides the point. Not everything is covered, i still need a drug play to help pay for inhailers, oral antibiotics, nasal spray, birth control and that type of stuff.. but the cf program provided by OHIP (ontario health insurance plan.. or something like that) covers the basic needs like tobramycin, ventolin, adeks or whatever vitamin you take... i think my parents insurance covered my air compressor, but yeah, i would just die living in the states... of course now that i'm off my parents insurance and i don't get it at my work, trying to sign up for the ontario drug benefits program is the biggest pain in the as* ever... but yeah.. Canada good...


Ashley 21 w/cf
 

perky79

New member
I have a current net worth of $250,000. That isnt life insurance that is in solid assets. Mostly real estate. I hope to retire in 5 - 10 years.

As for the insurance thing...I live in the States and I have never worried about not getting my meds or other medical attention. I went a year without insurance and the CSHP (childrens special health program) was right there and covered it all. I was 18 years old. I did pay what I could afford to because nothing is meant to be free. Now at the age of 20 I have great health insurance and can afford to pay all my co- pays. I am a capitalist, i have never expected anyone to help me and never will, I truly believe it is unethical to force someone to help another.
Now the war on Iraq....here is an email my cousin wrote to me. He is still fighting in Iraq.

Just wanted to pass on some good news from Iraq, might be different than what you get to see in the news at home these days. The other day, April 6th, we had the once in a lifetime opportunity to be out patrolling when the new president of Iraq was announced. His name is Ibrahim Talibani and by an amazing twist of fate, and a little poetic justice, he is a Kurd. There are several days in my life that have defined not only who I am but how I view the world, they are the day Cristi suffered a momentary lapse of sanity and married me, the days I watched both Derek and Gretchen enter this world and the day I watched the Kurds celebrate the election of Talabani.
After 30 years of oppression and attempts by the Baathists to ethnically cleanse Iraq of the Kurds, Iraq has a kurdish president. The analogy of a jew being elected president of Germany immediatley after world war II comes pretty close to the importance of this event for these people. Hundreds of thousands of Kurds were killed and buried in mass graves during the 80's and this was before the gassings that we are all too familiar with hearing about. Talabani is the first Kurd to hold a major political office in the middle east, let alone to be the president of a large country like Iraq. All of which make April 6th the most important day in kurdish history for a long, long time and maybe ever.
How it happend was a elegant example of the power of democracy. The majority shiites voted by the millions, but were very split on who they wanted. The Arab Sunnis decided to boycott the elections and are now finding out the hard way that if you don't vote you have no voice. As for the kurds, they stuck together, voted and got their man. This does'nt mean that they will control the country, however, they will be guaranteed a voice for the first time. I read somewhere that of all the people in America that are of voting age, only about 50% actually vote in any given election. I wonder if we could learn something from the lesson of the Kurds, especially since our elections can affect the entire world community.
Kirkuk is a town of about a million people and the night of the 6th I swear they were all out in the streets. Cars were completely gridlocked on all the major roads and nobody seemed to care. Every marketplace and major intersection was packed with people waving flags and dancing in the streets. The noise was overwhelming in some areas, between the music, the chanting, the fireworks and the gun fire. It was chaos, but it was all positive. We were sent out to keep people from getting out of hand and to prevent any ethnic issues between the Turkomen, the Kurds and the Arabs(the three main ethnic gropups that inhabit the city). The best part of that night was that we were the guests of honor, the heroes, the liberators! Groups of children chanted for us, they threw candy and flowers at us as we drove by, we got hugs and kisses from everyone. Crowds of dancing men tried to drag us into their circles in the hopes that we would dance with them. From everywhere childr
en shouted, "Mister, mister, I love you!", "America, I love you!". Mothers and Fathers handed us their babies so they could get pictures of them being held by an American soldier. There was not a single man in my platoon that night that was not touched in some way by the out pouring of joy and affection. The feeling was indescribable, for a soldier it was almost a religious experience.
For one night all the politics and debate were unimportant, it was enough to watch an oppressed people express the elation of suddenly being the masters of their destiny. They were celebrating more than just their new president that night, they were celebrating freedom and justice and a life free of terror. Freeing an oppressed people was not the main intent of our coming to Iraq, it has been a positive but unintended side effect. I have come to the conclusion that at this point nothing else really matters, not the oil, not the weapons of mass destruction and not the terrorist training camps. Sadaam Hussein was a terrorist, Saddam Husein was a weapon of mass destruction. This has become my reason, my war, and it is enough for me.
There are people all over Iraq that love Americans and what we have done for them. We aren't perfect and neither are our methods, but we are here and we have started something in this part of the world. Many countries in the region are pushing for free elections and are getting fed up with political and religious oppression. You probably don't hear much about it back home, but in this neck of the woods it is palpable. I just wanted you all to know that good things are happening over here every day, it's still very dangerous, but for the first time since I've been here I truly feel that our precense in this country will have a positive impact. So long for now, I'll be in touch. - Chris

I feel very alone when I say this, but I am proud to be an american.
 

anonymous

New member
<blockquote>Quote<br><hr>I truly believe it is unethical to force someone to help another. <hr></blockquote>

Do you mean by taxation? Yet you don't seem opposed to "forcing" the public to pay for wars to "help" people.
 

perky79

New member
I did imply through taxation. I am a very big capitalist, however one of five things that should not be privatized is military. That is a scarry thought. National defense and health care are totally different things. Do not spin what i say.
 

anonymous

New member
Canada may have free health care - but, I do believe the cost of living in general is alot higher. Visited with a friend that lives in Canada a few months ago and could not believe the cost of food. We met for lunch and a burger, fries and drink was approx. $20.00
 

WinAce

New member
Turning free-marketer logic on its head, if you don't like taxes or socialized/subsidized healthcare or whatnot, you can always move to a country that doesn't have them. The same exact argument that calls for an effective, funded military that defends all, should also justify healthcare. Why should rural farmers be forced to help defend New York City or Washington from terrorists, when their relative risks of attack are nowhere near comparable? Certain things are just important enough, for the good of ALL, that we spread the risk around--as with health coverage--so no one gets screwed too much in particular. Or at least, that's what we should be doing, if we're to lay any claim to being above the dog-eat-dog, everyone-for-himself world of the jungle.

This is in addition to the fact that funding healthcare well will save money in the long run, as people will get treated earlier, when it costs less to fix something, rather than waiting to make sure because they feel they can't afford to take a financial risk on what "might not be anything serious." Kinda like the choice between funding education, OR funding more prisons to hold the uneducated and desperate; ignoring both can't be done if your society is to remain stable, so it's usually better to work on the preventative angle.

<i>"Mad bureocracies abound,
Insurance bites.
With pre-existing illness found,
You have no rights;

A 'right' to healthcare? What a joke!
It costs, you know!
The rich deserve it, not the broke
So off you go;

The government might help, indeed,
To save your fanny;
Of course, your income can't exceed
A poor Afghani's..."</i>
(From a poem I wrote when I was particularly pissed off about the whole thing)
 

anonymous

New member
Perky79, you're not alone. I'm also proud to be an American. However, I realize that our government is VERY flawed. Even so, I have to say I'd take a very flawed capitalistic democracy than many of the alternatives. As far as healthcare, I don't think there are any easy options. I would NOT like the government making decisions of what's in my best interest health wise. Not that I like insurance companies making those decisions, either.

(FWIW, I'm the poster that you replied to on the drug thread about the executives making high pay. I still disagree with you there, but will take this flawed country over many others!)
 

anonymous

New member
Perky,
Thank you for sharing that inspiring letter from one of our soldiers. Why is it that we don't see that kind of thing on the nightly news? Could it be the biased media? I would have to wonder if Kerry had been elected if you would see that type of thing more often. Guess I'll never know.
I doubt if any soldiers are reading this, but if you are, THANK YOU for all you do<img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-cool.gif" border="0">
 
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