Implications of bodybuilding and Pseudomonas!

Incomudrox

New member
So as always I've been digging deep through the NIH and putting links together elsewhere. Generally speaking those with CF who bodybuild fairly well and some even come back from situations with the odds fairly against them. None the less I started to ask WHY is this?
I believe I may have found ONE of the reasons why, be it there are most likely others that I will uncover over time. Shall we begin? Let's talk for a minute about our friend PA. Scientists have discovered that mucoid PA, has one weakness - an akilees heel if you will. 87% of mucoid PA has a defect in its genetic code, which it either does not produce enough enzymes to get rid of acidic nitrite or doesn't have any of these enzymes at all. Ironically this defect in it's code is in the same gene that allows non-mucoid PA to BECOME mucoid PA. They have shown the Acidic Nitrite can totally wipe out mucoid PA because it has no ability to get rid of the acid once inside of the PA that lives with in our mucus.
Never the less you maybe wondering what this has to do with CF and why this even matters. Well people with CF have low levels of NO or eNO (exhaled Nitric Oxide) in thier bodies. Nitric Oxide is a derivitive of Acidic Nitrite. So naturally this doesn't happen so well for us. However a group of wonderful scientists discovered that if CF'ers take a dose of L-Arginine orally we can resustain levels of eNO and NO in our bodies. L-Ariginine is an essential Amino Acid as well as one of the building blocks of NO in the human body.
Researchs have done further studies to show that inhaled L-Arginine actually showed an increase in FEV1 in patients that participated in the study vs the plecebo.
So what does this have to do with body building? If you don't dabble in bodybuilding let me explain. Most bodybuilder take pre-workout boosters as well as BCAA's (sometimes these two are combined even).
Most of the commercially avalbile pre-workout suppliments suppliment NO (this helps the work out and blood flow for bodybuilders) as well as oral L-Arginine. In the studies L-Arginine was given to the patients at a dose of 200mg per kg of body weight. Which happens to be right on par (for my weight) with the amount of L-Arginine that is in most body building suppliments.
So in conclusion this would be one of the things that gives bodybuilders with CF an edge to fighting their mucoid PA and generally being in better health.
Further studies show that when CF'ers were given creatine (not to be confused with creatinin) they generally had a better quality of life and gained weight easier as well as having more energy. Most if not all pre-work out drinks and massbuilding protein shakes in the body building world have one form or another of creatine. However I'm not going to go further into this unless someone wants me to.

I am not saying that if everyone goes out and buys bodybuilding suppliments or L-Arginine (which you can buy seperately at CVS/Walgreens etc) you are going to get rid of PA or have a marcaulous recovery or any of that. What I am saying is I know a lot of CFers (mainly the men) have always wanted to get into the gym and start pushing those weights. I know I have for a long time and was embarrassed of my weight and what I was able to lift so I just didn't go. So maybe this can bring some motivation to them for other reasons to get in the gym and hit it.
I would recommend anyone who is going to take pre-work out suppliments to check with the doctors most doctors who are not morons will be okay with it. Also please conduct your own research as well.
 

Incomudrox

New member
So as always I've been digging deep through the NIH and putting links together elsewhere. Generally speaking those with CF who bodybuild fairly well and some even come back from situations with the odds fairly against them. None the less I started to ask WHY is this?
I believe I may have found ONE of the reasons why, be it there are most likely others that I will uncover over time. Shall we begin? Let's talk for a minute about our friend PA. Scientists have discovered that mucoid PA, has one weakness - an akilees heel if you will. 87% of mucoid PA has a defect in its genetic code, which it either does not produce enough enzymes to get rid of acidic nitrite or doesn't have any of these enzymes at all. Ironically this defect in it's code is in the same gene that allows non-mucoid PA to BECOME mucoid PA. They have shown the Acidic Nitrite can totally wipe out mucoid PA because it has no ability to get rid of the acid once inside of the PA that lives with in our mucus.
Never the less you maybe wondering what this has to do with CF and why this even matters. Well people with CF have low levels of NO or eNO (exhaled Nitric Oxide) in thier bodies. Nitric Oxide is a derivitive of Acidic Nitrite. So naturally this doesn't happen so well for us. However a group of wonderful scientists discovered that if CF'ers take a dose of L-Arginine orally we can resustain levels of eNO and NO in our bodies. L-Ariginine is an essential Amino Acid as well as one of the building blocks of NO in the human body.
Researchs have done further studies to show that inhaled L-Arginine actually showed an increase in FEV1 in patients that participated in the study vs the plecebo.
So what does this have to do with body building? If you don't dabble in bodybuilding let me explain. Most bodybuilder take pre-workout boosters as well as BCAA's (sometimes these two are combined even).
Most of the commercially avalbile pre-workout suppliments suppliment NO (this helps the work out and blood flow for bodybuilders) as well as oral L-Arginine. In the studies L-Arginine was given to the patients at a dose of 200mg per kg of body weight. Which happens to be right on par (for my weight) with the amount of L-Arginine that is in most body building suppliments.
So in conclusion this would be one of the things that gives bodybuilders with CF an edge to fighting their mucoid PA and generally being in better health.
Further studies show that when CF'ers were given creatine (not to be confused with creatinin) they generally had a better quality of life and gained weight easier as well as having more energy. Most if not all pre-work out drinks and massbuilding protein shakes in the body building world have one form or another of creatine. However I'm not going to go further into this unless someone wants me to.

I am not saying that if everyone goes out and buys bodybuilding suppliments or L-Arginine (which you can buy seperately at CVS/Walgreens etc) you are going to get rid of PA or have a marcaulous recovery or any of that. What I am saying is I know a lot of CFers (mainly the men) have always wanted to get into the gym and start pushing those weights. I know I have for a long time and was embarrassed of my weight and what I was able to lift so I just didn't go. So maybe this can bring some motivation to them for other reasons to get in the gym and hit it.
I would recommend anyone who is going to take pre-work out suppliments to check with the doctors most doctors who are not morons will be okay with it. Also please conduct your own research as well.
 

just1more

New member
I think this is a very plausible connection. It would take some evaluation to confirm the link but it makes sense.

Another thing to consider is our neighbors in Canada have shown that overall CF health is strongly tied to weight. As bodybuilders by virtue work to maintain & build body mass they are then helping their overall health as well.
 

just1more

New member
I think this is a very plausible connection. It would take some evaluation to confirm the link but it makes sense.

Another thing to consider is our neighbors in Canada have shown that overall CF health is strongly tied to weight. As bodybuilders by virtue work to maintain & build body mass they are then helping their overall health as well.
 

anien2

New member
About that connection between weight and health for CFers... I am not an expert, but I think it is in the oppositte direction, it is not that CFers who weight more have a better health, but CFers with a better health weight more that those with problems.

That makes a lot more sense.
 

anien2

New member
About that connection between weight and health for CFers... I am not an expert, but I think it is in the oppositte direction, it is not that CFers who weight more have a better health, but CFers with a better health weight more that those with problems.

That makes a lot more sense.
 

Incomudrox

New member
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>anien2</b></i> About that connection between weight and health for CFers... I am not an expert, but I think it is in the oppositte direction, it is not that CFers who weight more have a better health, but CFers with a better health weight more that those with problems. That makes a lot more sense.</end quote>
Not exactly....generally speaking a CFer who is taller than a CFer who is shorter but weigh the same, the taller of the two will have better lung function. However if you take two CFers (same gene types etc) both the same height but one has 10-15 more pounds they are going to have markedly, better lung function. Your thinking is flawed because really its all relative, you have to compare apples to apples.
 

Incomudrox

New member
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>anien2</b></i> About that connection between weight and health for CFers... I am not an expert, but I think it is in the oppositte direction, it is not that CFers who weight more have a better health, but CFers with a better health weight more that those with problems. That makes a lot more sense.</end quote>
Not exactly....generally speaking a CFer who is taller than a CFer who is shorter but weigh the same, the taller of the two will have better lung function. However if you take two CFers (same gene types etc) both the same height but one has 10-15 more pounds they are going to have markedly, better lung function. Your thinking is flawed because really its all relative, you have to compare apples to apples.
 

Incomudrox

New member
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>just1more</b></i> I think this is a very plausible connection. It would take some evaluation to confirm the link but it makes sense. Another thing to consider is our neighbors in Canada have shown that overall CF health is strongly tied to weight. As bodybuilders by virtue work to maintain & build body mass they are then helping their overall health as well.</end quote>
I meant to say earlier, you are right on. Bodybuilders are very dedicated indeed so this also plays a role.
 

Incomudrox

New member
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>just1more</b></i> I think this is a very plausible connection. It would take some evaluation to confirm the link but it makes sense. Another thing to consider is our neighbors in Canada have shown that overall CF health is strongly tied to weight. As bodybuilders by virtue work to maintain & build body mass they are then helping their overall health as well.</end quote>
I meant to say earlier, you are right on. Bodybuilders are very dedicated indeed so this also plays a role.
 

teacup

New member
I was reading about the relation between Arginine and NO on PA the other night!
I wonder if taking NO2 tablets with a safe ammount of arginine (that comes with whey protein and other dietary supplements) would make some effect on PA biofilms...
 

teacup

New member
I was reading about the relation between Arginine and NO on PA the other night!
I wonder if taking NO2 tablets with a safe ammount of arginine (that comes with whey protein and other dietary supplements) would make some effect on PA biofilms...
 

Incomudrox

New member
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>teacup</b></i> I was reading about the relation between Arginine and NO on PA the other night! I wonder if taking NO2 tablets with a safe ammount of arginine (that comes with whey protein and other dietary supplements) would make some effect on PA biofilms...</end quote>

It is better supplimented with L-Arginine. Use 200mg per kg of body weight. After 4 weeks in the study all participants had mornalized levels of NO. A nice EAA suppliment would do well and help keep albumin and pre-albumin levels good as well which is KEY in CF. Look for a product by Universal called Beef Amino 100% Beef aminos great stuff. If you want I can link you to the product.
 

Incomudrox

New member
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>teacup</b></i> I was reading about the relation between Arginine and NO on PA the other night! I wonder if taking NO2 tablets with a safe ammount of arginine (that comes with whey protein and other dietary supplements) would make some effect on PA biofilms...</end quote>

It is better supplimented with L-Arginine. Use 200mg per kg of body weight. After 4 weeks in the study all participants had mornalized levels of NO. A nice EAA suppliment would do well and help keep albumin and pre-albumin levels good as well which is KEY in CF. Look for a product by Universal called Beef Amino 100% Beef aminos great stuff. If you want I can link you to the product.
 

teacup

New member
Thanks for the tips! I live in Brazil, so I'll have to make some research for similar products here, but thanks anyways!
By the way, the study you read was Grasemann's?
 

teacup

New member
Thanks for the tips! I live in Brazil, so I'll have to make some research for similar products here, but thanks anyways!
By the way, the study you read was Grasemann's?
 

Incomudrox

New member
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><em>Originally posted by: <strong>teacup</strong></em> Thanks for the tips! I live in Brazil, so I'll have to make some research for similar products here, but thanks anyways! By the way, the study you read was Grasemann's?</end quote>

<pre>I'd have to go look it up in my history.. it was on the NIH.GOV site.. one was from a</pre>
<pre>Cincinnati Ohio research center i'm not sure were the other 3 were done I wasn't looking at that. lol</pre>
<pre><a href="http://healthnews.uc.edu/news/?/887/">http://healthnews.uc.edu/news/?/887/</a> about PA susceptibility to acidic nitrite. <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16627863">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16627863</a> inhaled L-Arginine study<a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11112133">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11112133</a> About airway NO and eNO<a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15463870">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15463870</a> effects of creatine in cystic fibrosis</pre>
 

Incomudrox

New member
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><em>Originally posted by: <strong>teacup</strong></em> Thanks for the tips! I live in Brazil, so I'll have to make some research for similar products here, but thanks anyways! By the way, the study you read was Grasemann's?</end quote>

<pre>I'd have to go look it up in my history.. it was on the NIH.GOV site.. one was from a</pre>
<pre>Cincinnati Ohio research center i'm not sure were the other 3 were done I wasn't looking at that. lol</pre>
<pre><a href="http://healthnews.uc.edu/news/?/887/">http://healthnews.uc.edu/news/?/887/</a> about PA susceptibility to acidic nitrite. <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16627863">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16627863</a> inhaled L-Arginine study<a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11112133">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11112133</a> About airway NO and eNO<a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15463870">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15463870</a> effects of creatine in cystic fibrosis</pre>
 

Kristen

New member
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>anien2</b></i> About that connection between weight and health for CFers... I am not an expert, but I think it is in the oppositte direction, it is not that CFers who weight more have a better health, but CFers with a better health weight more that those with problems. That makes a lot more sense.</end quote>
That is what I thought initially, and it does make sense and is probably, in part, true. However, I remember reading that having extra weight helps a person keep their lungs healthy. I read it a while ago and I'll try to find it again.
 

Kristen

New member
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>anien2</b></i> About that connection between weight and health for CFers... I am not an expert, but I think it is in the oppositte direction, it is not that CFers who weight more have a better health, but CFers with a better health weight more that those with problems. That makes a lot more sense.</end quote>
That is what I thought initially, and it does make sense and is probably, in part, true. However, I remember reading that having extra weight helps a person keep their lungs healthy. I read it a while ago and I'll try to find it again.
 
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