Is my doctor being aggressive enough?

occupyjapan

New member
Backstory: I'm a 28 year old male with homozygous delta F508. I've had extremely good lung functions (FEV1 @ 122, FVC @ 120) for years, up until a year ago when I had a massive exacerbation. Currently, my FEV1 is in the mid-upper 80's and my FVC is 103. My doctor responded aggressively to the exacerbation, hospitalizing me and putting me on Fortaz (which he then changed to Cefepime after cultures), Meropenem, Vancomycin and Tobramycin. After my hospitalization, he sent me home on a month's worth of orals - Levofloxacin and Doxycycline. (I culture PA that doesn't have many resistances and MRSA that is sensitive to tetracyclines, linozolid, vancomycin and a few others).

At the height of my exacerbation, my FEV1 had fallen to 40 and my FVC was 70. It has since gone back up to the levels states in my opening (upper 80's and 103 respectively). However, since the exacerbation, he seems to have stopped being so aggressive and has made what I perceive to be several mistakes. I'm wondering if the rest of you share my concerns.

For starters, I have to request any change in treatment and he's really slow to adopt any new changes to regimen that might help me recover lung function. He was "on the fence" about changing me from 28 days Tobi/28 days 750mg Cipro to 28 days Tobi/28 days Cayston, despite my cultures being sensitive to aztreonam, but finally relented when I pushed the issue. Cayston made my FEV1 go up 10 points. He was similarly on the fence about putting me on hypertonic saline, but also relented. Hypersal resulted in another 6-7 point jump in FVC and a 3-4 point jump in FEV1.

I've mentioned to him over the course of many office visits that I just don't feel like Tobi "does anything" anymore. My cultures still show my PA is sensitive to it, but I just feel crappy. I've asked him if I can be put on an oral (Cipro, Azithromycin, ANYTHING) instead of the Tobi and then reserving Tobi for an additional therapy in case I start feeling sick. "No." I've asked about getting put on inhaled Colistin. "No." (And for reasons I feel are stupid - he says that Colistin is a "hassle" and is kind of gross and sticky and stuff and he doesn't like using it). I've asked about maybe being given a supplementary oral (say, 500mg Cipro or whatever, really) alongside the Tobi. "No."

Every time I start to have a mild exacerbation, he puts me on the same regimen: 500mg Cipro, 100mg Doxycycline, be it a sinus problem, lung problem, whatever. He's put me on Doxy so much that now my MRSA is resistant to tetracyclines (thanks, doc!) and he STILL puts me on it despite it being resistant. He attempted to put me on it again, a second time post-resistance diagnosis and I absolutely demanded something else this last time, which resulted in being put on linozolid (aka Zyvox), which made me feel loads better.

He's also extremely hesitant about prescribing new therapy. He keeps really up to date one stuff, and I often discuss new potential treatment options with him that are in the pipeline for the next year or two, and he's always EXTREMELY resistant to the idea of putting me on them. He'd have to "seriously put some thought into" whether he'd put me on Arikace (inhaled Amikacin) or Aeroquin (inhaled Levofloxacin). He's "not sure" about Bronchitol (though neither is the FDA, it turns out! *rimshot) and he'd "probably want to wait a while to see some post-market results" before putting me on combined Kalydeco/Lumacaftor when it comes out in the next year or so.

Recently, I felt a bit crappy and wanted some oral antibiotics to take the edge off before anything major developed. He said he wanted me to take a flu test (as in go to the local hospital that is full of flu patients in the midst of a literal flu epidemic) before he'd prescribe anything at all. I'm not one to advocate self-medication, but that was the last straw. I put myself on a high dose of ibuprofen, increased my albutoral from 2x daily to 4x daily, increased my hypersal to 4x and started doing my vest 3-4x daily as needed and I got past it myself. Knowing him, he'd have agonized over me increasing my treatments like that!

I can understand being careful with antibiotics and new therapies, since becoming resistant is a major concern and whatnot, but he just seems over-cautious to the point of absurdity. I really, really, really don't want to end up in the hospital again on a bunch of "drugs of last resort" because he can't stop agonizing about putting me on new medicines or changing my treatment.

Am I just being too sensitive or is he seriously dropping the ball here? Changing doctors shouldn't be a huge deal. I live close enough to St. Louis, MO that I could get a specialist there.
 

occupyjapan

New member
Ironically, I started seeing him because my last doctor wasn't aggressive enough either... he wouldn't even put me on Tobi or Pulmozyme! I have nothing but envy for those of you who have doctors awesome enough to put them on Kalydeco off-label and stuff. :(
 

JustDucky

New member
If you don't feel comfortable with his decisions, it might be time for you to move on. Sometimes it takes a few switches to find the right fit....as far as if your doc is being aggressive enough, nothing annoys me more than wishy washy docs, I can understand caution but he should take in consideration that you know your body better than anyone else in this world. If you feel something is wrong, then it probably is.....It took a few changes on my part to finally find the right doctor for me, he listens to me but also does his research and then makes his decision. I hope in the end things go well for you

Jenn 41 wCF
 

Aboveallislove

Super Moderator
I don't know enough re the antibotics to comment, but that he didn't want you on hyper-sal too me is bizzare!!! Our 3.5 year old son has been on since 2ish and it is AWESOME! And was the only thing that got any clearance coughs. And that he would wait to put you on the combo when it comes done the pike???? As dear son would say "knock, knock, knock, helllllloooo, anybody home McFly?" We'll be on the phone the moment the Kalydeco/809 is approved to get a script for our son and I'd be pretty nervous about any doctor who wouldn't prescribe it immediately, especially to someone your age who is ddf508.
 

keefer11

New member
Wow, what you are describing is the spitting image of my last doctor. Until you wrote, "St Louis, MO", I really thought it was my old doctor. I couldn't stand having a doctor who wouldn't try "new things" before there was more data. It sounds like you don't trust your doctor, and if that is the case, you probably should move on and try and find one you trust.

I would research St Louis doctors and consider making a switch. Maybe write a post on this site about anyone who goes to any Dr's in St Louis. I made a switch from a doctor who sounds just like yours, and I am so much happier. It's just nice to have a doctor who listens to your needs and trust your instincts. Granted he doesn't worship the ground I walk on, but he certainly listens to me, which it sounds like your doctor doesn't.

Good luck!
 

occupyjapan

New member
Wow, what you are describing is the spitting image of my last doctor. Until you wrote, "St Louis, MO", I really thought it was my old doctor. I couldn't stand having a doctor who wouldn't try "new things" before there was more data. It sounds like you don't trust your doctor, and if that is the case, you probably should move on and try and find one you trust.

I would research St Louis doctors and consider making a switch. Maybe write a post on this site about anyone who goes to any Dr's in St Louis. I made a switch from a doctor who sounds just like yours, and I am so much happier. It's just nice to have a doctor who listens to your needs and trust your instincts. Granted he doesn't worship the ground I walk on, but he certainly listens to me, which it sounds like your doctor doesn't.

Good luck!

Thank you (and everyone) for the well-wishes.

It's not that I don't trust him. Like I said, he responded to my exacerbation exactly like I hoped he would: swiftly and aggressively with very powerful antibiotics and some orals to take home to make sure I fully kicked the flare up. It's just that since then, he's really kind of slacked off and every time I FINALLY push him to do something, it ends up benefiting me greatly. If it was *just* antibiotics, I'd kinda/sorta understand since a good deal of caution is needed there since there's only a finite number of antibiotics, an even smaller number that PA/MRSA is sensitive to and it would be a very bad thing to run out of options. But Hypersal? Cayston (made specifically for CF patients and aerosolized to target the lungs where it needs to be) vs. high dose Cipro (which could lead to fluoroquinolone resistance just like him over-prescribing Doxy lead to tetracycline resistance)? NO KALYDECO/809 THE SECOND IT COMES OUT? That's just a bridge too far with me and I have to question his judgment.

He also just seems to have weird opinions on things that I admit I lack the knowledge to contest outright, but that "seem" weird. For example, he's repeatedly stated that he could probably eradicate my MRSA, but that he doesn't want to because somehow MRSA supposedly inhibits the growth of PA and he's more concerned with keeping my PA in check. That could well be, but I'm skeptical that he could really eradicate it, for starters. Most of my cultures shot "lots" of MRSA and "few" PA. My exacerbation was PA-related (I cultured a second strain that was resistant to a LOT of antibiotics, but he apparently eradicated it), but I have lots of trouble with staph, too. I know this because when he put me on Zyvox (anti-MRSA, does nothing to PA) when I was feeling lousy, I felt AMAZING for a couple months afterwards.

He's also said that some CF treatments do literally nothing ranging from older treatments (MucoMyst), to OTC stuff many CF patients use (Mucinex, Ibuprofen) to inhaled steroids, etc. Not that they aren't optimal or as effective as he'd like them to be in order to prescribe; he means that they do NOTHING and has said they're all no better than taking a placebo. Again, I don't know enough about most of that to render a final judgment, but it seems that at the least inhaled steroids would do something since so many doctors use them, and I know for a fact high dose Ibuprofen is an established treatment for CF.

I'm actually in IL and go to a central IL hospital. It'd be about as far for me to go to St. Louis where you have Barnes-Jewish and other such reputable hospitals.
 

occupyjapan

New member
His exact issue with Kalydeco/809 is two-fold:

1) I guess that in some patients that take Kalydeco, it can raise liver enzyme levels or something like that and he wants to be able to see data for an indeterminate period of time AFTER the combo goes to market to make sure it doesn't raise the liver enzymes of people put on it. As if the chief concern here is my liver enzymes and not my lungs. *rolls eyes*

2) He's, quote, "generally cautious" about treatment options that affect more than just the lungs. Since Kalydeco/809 effects the entire body, he's worried there might be other side effects or something.

It's not like he's just ignorant of it or something; he keeps very up to date on it and was even saying that word in the industry is that they start Phase III trials in June and could possibly roll it out early 2014.

By the way, has anyone here been on inhaled colistin? What was your experience with it? His objection to that seemed particularly asinine. I could care less if it's "sticky" and CF in GENERAL is one big hassle after another, so I'm more than used to dealing with hassles.
 

keefer11

New member
Yeah, his actions are strange. He sounds old fashioned. He's willing to do the normal stuff, but not willing to try much that is new(whether new to you or new to everyone).

Instead of telling me, "No, you can't try that", my doctor says, "Well, we can try it, but I doubt you will like it/it will do much for you." Those were his exact words with Mucomyst & when I have a cold & am really congested Mucomyst is amazing, it works better than hypersal.

But like all meds, mucomyst doesn't work for everyone, but at least my Dr is willing to try, whereas yours isn't. But, it also sounds like your doctor is worried about how meds will effect the rest of your body. And, if you are pretty healthy it makes some sense, because you are likely to live long enough that you will see the effects of taking those meds which hurt your other organs. So, you could see it that your doctor expects a long life out of you and doesn't want to mess up the rest of your systems. If you ever need a transplant having your other organs remain healthy is ideal. But, if you aren't very healthy(have a low FEV1,FVC), than it doesn't make as much sense. Get what I'm saying? Sometimes doctors need to explain themselves so you understand why they do things.

He should be a little more flexible and let you try things instead of saying that it won't help you. It's tough because he's aggressive, yet inflexible. You just need to figure out if that's the kind of doctor you want. For me, it wasn't and I switched.

Also search the forums for Colistin, there definitely stuff out there. I've been on it and responded to forums about it. Colistin has saved me many times from having to go on IVs after having serious colds. I think I to great and it's not a pain in the ass at all.
 

occupyjapan

New member
That's definitely a word I'd use. Inflexible. I mean, he's capable of being aggressive, but for whatever reason, doesn't think aggressive treatment is warranted anymore. Maybe because my numbers are still "high", relatively speaking. With upper-80's FEV1 and 103 FVC, I'm not even close to advanced stage lung disease, let alone needing a transplant or anything. Maybe he thinks that keeping me where I'm at is more prudent.

But, I mean, I'm not expecting to go back up to my pre-exacerbation numbers with the therapy that's currently available (though I don't think it'd be out of the question with Kalydeco/809, Bronchitol and/or some of the new inhaled antibiotics that should be coming out soonish if you assume a ~5-10 point increase in numbers from each, which is what research is currently showing), but I think it'd pay to be slightly more aggressive in trying to get back SOME lung function in the meantime, if for no other reason than to make sure I don't have another exacerbation that knocks me wayyyy down again.

I really wish he'd take your doctor's attitude. I completely understand about not prescribing antibiotics willy-nilly, but MucoMyst won't kill me. Kalydeco off-label won't kill me. Hypersal didn't kill me. Swapping Colistin for Tobi wouldn't kill me (that's really the only antibiotic stuff I want him to do). It's not like I'm going in and asking his opinion on doing wackadoodle stuff like nebulizing dilute hydrogen peroxide or whatever. I'm just wanting to try out proven, medically recognized therapies for CF.
 

zamanka

New member
My husband is using colistin for quite a long period of time. Yesterday I've just noticed that this stuff is really really sticky! Just like a super glue.. I was really surprised. CFers has so many issues due stickiness and this thing should make them feel better?...
I'm not sure if Colistin works for him or not. I guess that it does keep his lung function somehow. But he is coughing much more after that and feeling breathless sometimes. But I guess it's better than Tobi as it's not as strong and it doesn't develop the resistance after using so it's probably the best solution for a long term.

I've started reading this topic a few days ago on UK CFers forum (couldn't finish reading it yet - so long!) but it made me rethink about all medication http://www.cftrust.org.uk/forum/vie...&start=0&sid=48a4426dda120da330ea78df0b7a241c
I don't know how the whole discussion ended up yet, but it might be interesting to everyone to read this...
 

occupyjapan

New member
Colistin is actually VERY strong, from my understanding. I kind of pride myself on being an "antibiotics nerd". :)

Things don't get resistant to it because of the way it works. Tobi and other antibiotics actually enter the bacterial cells and interfere with various parts of their reproductive process, cell wall synthesis, etc. Colistin on the other hand, if I recall, attaches to the cell wall of the bacteria from the outside and basically punches holes in it causing the bacteria's innards to leak out, which isn't very good for the bacteria as you may imagine. Bacteria become resistant to other antibiotics because they're able to pump them out faster than the drug can act, or because they've evolved the ability to make various particles (such as beta-lactamase) which can bind to and render the antibiotic ineffective or various other ways. Colistin is pretty unique in it's method of action.

I've never heard of anything DEVELOPING resistance to Colistin (though I'm sure it's possible). Things generally either are or aren't.

He probably coughs more and feels breathless because of bronchospasms, not because it's so sticky that it's sticking his lungs together! Does he nebulize albutoral before doing it? Tobi and Cayston both make me feel the same way you described, but if I use albutoral, I feel just fine afterwards with no shortness of breath of cough.

The stickiness really wouldn't bother me. Tobi tastes like bleach to me, Hypersal is gross tasting (though I tolerate it well as far as it doesn't give me bronchospasms), etc. I'm used to nasty medicine.
 
Top