Pfts's and weight changes

[cfgf28]

Well yesterday they didnt do his pft's in the box even though they called it an annual visit...prob cuz they did them in september that way. Next time he goes I will ask him to ask for a print out with the actual numbers not percentages...But from what you say yesterdays were probably nothing to worry abut as they may not have changed based on his weight change. Thanks again! I think everyone here really benefits from your input!! I know I do, since i cant just call up my bf's dr everytime I have a question I can't find an answer for!

 

[cfgf28]

Well yesterday they didnt do his pft's in the box even though they called it an annual visit...prob cuz they did them in september that way. Next time he goes I will ask him to ask for a print out with the actual numbers not percentages...But from what you say yesterdays were probably nothing to worry abut as they may not have changed based on his weight change. Thanks again! I think everyone here really benefits from your input!! I know I do, since i cant just call up my bf's dr everytime I have a question I can't find an answer for!

 

[Daverog75]

my doctors has always told me that if you can gain weight your lung function will improve.

Dave 37 w/cf

 

[Daverog75]

my doctors has always told me that if you can gain weight your lung function will improve.

Dave 37 w/cf

 

[Havoc]

Dave, yes that is true for the most part. What we are discussing is how a sudden gain or loss will affect the %predicted of your PFT scores.

 

[Havoc]

Dave, yes that is true for the most part. What we are discussing is how a sudden gain or loss will affect the %predicted of your PFT scores.

 

[saveferris2009]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>Daverog75</b></i> my doctors has always told me that if you can gain weight your lung function will improve. Dave 37 w/cf</end quote>

THis is the classic causation vs. correlation argument.

Of course if your lungs are feeling better, you don't burn as many calories trying to breathe, so your weight may go up.
Gaining weight doesn't mean your lung function goes up - that's a correlation, not a causation. Increased weight may correlate to increased lung function, but to make claims that one causes the other is just ..... well..... ridiculous.

 

[saveferris2009]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>Daverog75</b></i> my doctors has always told me that if you can gain weight your lung function will improve. Dave 37 w/cf</end quote>

THis is the classic causation vs. correlation argument.

Of course if your lungs are feeling better, you don't burn as many calories trying to breathe, so your weight may go up.
Gaining weight doesn't mean your lung function goes up - that's a correlation, not a causation. Increased weight may correlate to increased lung function, but to make claims that one causes the other is just ..... well..... ridiculous.

 

[SIcklyhatED]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>saveferris2009</b></i> <div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>Daverog75</b></i> my doctors has always told me that if you can gain weight your lung function will improve. Dave 37 w/cf</end quote> THis is the classic causation vs. correlation argument. Of course if your lungs are feeling better, you don't burn as many calories trying to breathe, so your weight may go up. Gaining weight doesn't mean your lung function goes up - that's a correlation, not a causation. Increased weight may correlate to increased lung function, but to make claims that one causes the other is just ..... well..... ridiculous.</end quote>
Oh my gosh, where were you all those years ago when I needed someone to explain that to me family and doctor?!?! Long story short, a long time ago I lost a sigficicant amount of weight and everyone and their mother was FREAKING OUT over my PFTs, which were stable, and they kept ramming it down my throat that if I didn't gain weight my lungs would be trashed (liiiiies....). Huh, my PFTs were the best then, but maybe that's just me.

 

[SIcklyhatED]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>saveferris2009</b></i> <div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>Daverog75</b></i> my doctors has always told me that if you can gain weight your lung function will improve. Dave 37 w/cf</end quote> THis is the classic causation vs. correlation argument. Of course if your lungs are feeling better, you don't burn as many calories trying to breathe, so your weight may go up. Gaining weight doesn't mean your lung function goes up - that's a correlation, not a causation. Increased weight may correlate to increased lung function, but to make claims that one causes the other is just ..... well..... ridiculous.</end quote>
Oh my gosh, where were you all those years ago when I needed someone to explain that to me family and doctor?!?! Long story short, a long time ago I lost a sigficicant amount of weight and everyone and their mother was FREAKING OUT over my PFTs, which were stable, and they kept ramming it down my throat that if I didn't gain weight my lungs would be trashed (liiiiies....). Huh, my PFTs were the best then, but maybe that's just me.

 

[Havoc]

http://thorax.bmj.com/content/57/7/596.abstract

 

[Havoc]

http://thorax.bmj.com/content/57/7/596.abstract

 

[Havoc]

I keep trying to post links, but there is a problem. So, here is the reason your docs freaked out, and rightly so:
<div id="abstract-1" class="section abstract">
<h2>Abstract</h2>
<p id="p-1"><strong>Background:</strong> The German cystic fibrosis (CF) quality assurance (CFQA) project is a patient registry for CF which was founded in 1995. Relevant clinical and laboratory data, respiratory function test results, complications, and CF treatments are entered into the database once a year for each patient. Using the database, a study was undertaken to elucidate the relationship between nutrition and lung function in a large patient cohort by cross sectional and longitudinal analysis.
<p id="p-2"><strong>Methods:</strong> A cohort of 3298 patients above 2 years of age was analysed. Patients were grouped according to the presence or absence of malnutrition (wasting and/or stunting). Cross sectional and longitudinal analyses over 2 and 3 years including mixed model analyses were performed.
<p id="p-3"><strong>Results:</strong> The prevalence of abnormal weight for height (<90% predicted) increased with age from 19% in children aged <6 years to 38% in adults with CF. Patients with malnutrition had significantly lower mean values of vital capacity, arterial oxygen tension (P<span class="sc">o₂), and forced expiratory volume in 1 second (FEV₁) and higher serum IgG (p<0.05). <em>Pseudomonas aeruginosa</em> infection was also associated with decreased pulmonary function. Malnourished adolescents aged 12–18 years experienced a serious decline in FEV₁ of about 20% predicted, whereas mean FEV₁ values remained stable at above 80% predicted in adolescents of normal weight. Longitudinal follow up showed that malnourished patients of all ages and those with <em>P aeruginosa</em> infection had significantly worse lung function than their normally nourished counterparts and a greater yearly loss of FEV₁ % predicted. During 1 year of observation adolescents who experienced a >5% predicted decrease in weight for height had a concomitant mean loss of FEV₁ of 16.5% predicted during that year, whereas patients who gained relative weight had a parallel increase in FEV₁ of 2.1% predicted.
<p id="p-4"><strong>Conclusions:</strong> These data emphasise the close relationship between nutrition, lung function, and clinical course in CF. Normal body weight and absence of <em>P aeruginosa</em> infection was associated with better preservation of lung function.

 

[Havoc]

I keep trying to post links, but there is a problem. So, here is the reason your docs freaked out, and rightly so:
<div id="abstract-1" class="section abstract">
<h2>Abstract</h2>
<p id="p-1"><strong>Background:</strong> The German cystic fibrosis (CF) quality assurance (CFQA) project is a patient registry for CF which was founded in 1995. Relevant clinical and laboratory data, respiratory function test results, complications, and CF treatments are entered into the database once a year for each patient. Using the database, a study was undertaken to elucidate the relationship between nutrition and lung function in a large patient cohort by cross sectional and longitudinal analysis.
<p id="p-2"><strong>Methods:</strong> A cohort of 3298 patients above 2 years of age was analysed. Patients were grouped according to the presence or absence of malnutrition (wasting and/or stunting). Cross sectional and longitudinal analyses over 2 and 3 years including mixed model analyses were performed.
<p id="p-3"><strong>Results:</strong> The prevalence of abnormal weight for height (<90% predicted) increased with age from 19% in children aged <6 years to 38% in adults with CF. Patients with malnutrition had significantly lower mean values of vital capacity, arterial oxygen tension (P<span class="sc">o₂), and forced expiratory volume in 1 second (FEV₁) and higher serum IgG (p<0.05). <em>Pseudomonas aeruginosa</em> infection was also associated with decreased pulmonary function. Malnourished adolescents aged 12–18 years experienced a serious decline in FEV₁ of about 20% predicted, whereas mean FEV₁ values remained stable at above 80% predicted in adolescents of normal weight. Longitudinal follow up showed that malnourished patients of all ages and those with <em>P aeruginosa</em> infection had significantly worse lung function than their normally nourished counterparts and a greater yearly loss of FEV₁ % predicted. During 1 year of observation adolescents who experienced a >5% predicted decrease in weight for height had a concomitant mean loss of FEV₁ of 16.5% predicted during that year, whereas patients who gained relative weight had a parallel increase in FEV₁ of 2.1% predicted.
<p id="p-4"><strong>Conclusions:</strong> These data emphasise the close relationship between nutrition, lung function, and clinical course in CF. Normal body weight and absence of <em>P aeruginosa</em> infection was associated with better preservation of lung function.

 

[Beccamom]

Havoc,

Thanks for the study you wrote above. So if you gain weight without changing medication, airway clearance, exercise, etc., then lung function goes up as well?

Jen

 

[Beccamom]

Havoc,

Thanks for the study you wrote above. So if you gain weight without changing medication, airway clearance, exercise, etc., then lung function goes up as well?

Jen

 

[saveferris2009]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>SIcklyhatED</b></i> <div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>saveferris2009</b></i> <div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>Daverog75</b></i> my doctors has always told me that if you can gain weight your lung function will improve. Dave 37 w/cf</end quote> THis is the classic causation vs. correlation argument. Of course if your lungs are feeling better, you don't burn as many calories trying to breathe, so your weight may go up. Gaining weight doesn't mean your lung function goes up - that's a correlation, not a causation. Increased weight may correlate to increased lung function, but to make claims that one causes the other is just ..... well..... ridiculous.</end quote> Oh my gosh, where were you all those years ago when I needed someone to explain that to me family and doctor?!?! Long story short, a long time ago I lost a sigficicant amount of weight and everyone and their mother was FREAKING OUT over my PFTs, which were stable, and they kept ramming it down my throat that if I didn't gain weight my lungs would be trashed (liiiiies....). Huh, my PFTs were the best then, but maybe that's just me.</end quote>

So sorry to hear this.... ya, it's a big pet peeve for me.

BTW I am the same way with my weight. ANd I get the same heat from my CF team.

Talk about lack of critical thinking by our CF docs.... I think it's ridiculous

 

[saveferris2009]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>SIcklyhatED</b></i> <div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>saveferris2009</b></i> <div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>Daverog75</b></i> my doctors has always told me that if you can gain weight your lung function will improve. Dave 37 w/cf</end quote> THis is the classic causation vs. correlation argument. Of course if your lungs are feeling better, you don't burn as many calories trying to breathe, so your weight may go up. Gaining weight doesn't mean your lung function goes up - that's a correlation, not a causation. Increased weight may correlate to increased lung function, but to make claims that one causes the other is just ..... well..... ridiculous.</end quote> Oh my gosh, where were you all those years ago when I needed someone to explain that to me family and doctor?!?! Long story short, a long time ago I lost a sigficicant amount of weight and everyone and their mother was FREAKING OUT over my PFTs, which were stable, and they kept ramming it down my throat that if I didn't gain weight my lungs would be trashed (liiiiies....). Huh, my PFTs were the best then, but maybe that's just me.</end quote>

So sorry to hear this.... ya, it's a big pet peeve for me.

BTW I am the same way with my weight. ANd I get the same heat from my CF team.

Talk about lack of critical thinking by our CF docs.... I think it's ridiculous

 

[saveferris2009]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>Havoc</b></i> I keep trying to post links, but there is a problem. So, here is the reason your docs freaked out, and rightly so:
<div id="abstract-1" class="section abstract">
<h2>Abstract</h2>
<p id="p-1"><b>Background:</b> The German cystic fibrosis (CF) quality assurance (CFQA) project is a patient registry for CF which was founded in 1995. Relevant clinical and laboratory data, respiratory function test results, complications, and CF treatments are entered into the database once a year for each patient. Using the database, a study was undertaken to elucidate the relationship between nutrition and lung function in a large patient cohort by cross sectional and longitudinal analysis.
<p id="p-2"><b>Methods:</b> A cohort of 3298 patients above 2 years of age was analysed. Patients were grouped according to the presence or absence of malnutrition (wasting and/or stunting). Cross sectional and longitudinal analyses over 2 and 3 years including mixed model analyses were performed.
<p id="p-3"><b>Results:</b> The prevalence of abnormal weight for height (o</u>₂), and forced expiratory volume in 1 second (FEV₁) and higher serum IgG (p1 of about 20% predicted, whereas mean FEV₁ values remained stable at above 80% predicted in adolescents of normal weight. Longitudinal follow up showed that malnourished patients of all ages and those with <i>P aeruginosa</i> infection had significantly worse lung function than their normally nourished counterparts and a greater yearly loss of FEV₁ % predicted. During 1 year of observation adolescents who experienced a >5% predicted decrease in weight for height had a concomitant mean loss of FEV₁ of 16.5% predicted during that year, whereas patients who gained relative weight had a parallel increase in FEV₁ of 2.1% predicted.
<p id="p-4"><b>Conclusions:</b> These data emphasise the close relationship between nutrition, lung function, and clinical course in CF. Normal body weight and absence of <i>P aeruginosa</i> infection was associated with better preservation of lung function.

</end quote>

This is still a study about correlation, not causation.
The study says "relationship" between these endpoints.... this means correlation.

 

[saveferris2009]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>Havoc</b></i> I keep trying to post links, but there is a problem. So, here is the reason your docs freaked out, and rightly so:
<div id="abstract-1" class="section abstract">
<h2>Abstract</h2>
<p id="p-1"><b>Background:</b> The German cystic fibrosis (CF) quality assurance (CFQA) project is a patient registry for CF which was founded in 1995. Relevant clinical and laboratory data, respiratory function test results, complications, and CF treatments are entered into the database once a year for each patient. Using the database, a study was undertaken to elucidate the relationship between nutrition and lung function in a large patient cohort by cross sectional and longitudinal analysis.
<p id="p-2"><b>Methods:</b> A cohort of 3298 patients above 2 years of age was analysed. Patients were grouped according to the presence or absence of malnutrition (wasting and/or stunting). Cross sectional and longitudinal analyses over 2 and 3 years including mixed model analyses were performed.
<p id="p-3"><b>Results:</b> The prevalence of abnormal weight for height (o</u>₂), and forced expiratory volume in 1 second (FEV₁) and higher serum IgG (p1 of about 20% predicted, whereas mean FEV₁ values remained stable at above 80% predicted in adolescents of normal weight. Longitudinal follow up showed that malnourished patients of all ages and those with <i>P aeruginosa</i> infection had significantly worse lung function than their normally nourished counterparts and a greater yearly loss of FEV₁ % predicted. During 1 year of observation adolescents who experienced a >5% predicted decrease in weight for height had a concomitant mean loss of FEV₁ of 16.5% predicted during that year, whereas patients who gained relative weight had a parallel increase in FEV₁ of 2.1% predicted.
<p id="p-4"><b>Conclusions:</b> These data emphasise the close relationship between nutrition, lung function, and clinical course in CF. Normal body weight and absence of <i>P aeruginosa</i> infection was associated with better preservation of lung function.

</end quote>

This is still a study about correlation, not causation.
The study says "relationship" between these endpoints.... this means correlation.