Solo

Mockingbird

New member
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>Solo</b></i>
Mockingbird, you would be right in expecting a Christian to understand his faith better, but I have been on the other side of the fence; therefore I feel I am in an ideal position to see which side has more broken pillars in it's doctrinal foundation. And Christianity is about as strong as a paper house in a hurricane. </end quote></div>

Okay. Show me how well you understand my faith. Tell me about all these broken pillars that you've found in the foundation of Christ.
 

Mockingbird

New member
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>Solo</b></i>
Mockingbird, you would be right in expecting a Christian to understand his faith better, but I have been on the other side of the fence; therefore I feel I am in an ideal position to see which side has more broken pillars in it's doctrinal foundation. And Christianity is about as strong as a paper house in a hurricane. </end quote></div>

Okay. Show me how well you understand my faith. Tell me about all these broken pillars that you've found in the foundation of Christ.
 

Mockingbird

New member
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>Solo</b></i>
Mockingbird, you would be right in expecting a Christian to understand his faith better, but I have been on the other side of the fence; therefore I feel I am in an ideal position to see which side has more broken pillars in it's doctrinal foundation. And Christianity is about as strong as a paper house in a hurricane. </end quote></div>

Okay. Show me how well you understand my faith. Tell me about all these broken pillars that you've found in the foundation of Christ.
 

Mockingbird

New member
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>Solo</b></i>
Mockingbird, you would be right in expecting a Christian to understand his faith better, but I have been on the other side of the fence; therefore I feel I am in an ideal position to see which side has more broken pillars in it's doctrinal foundation. And Christianity is about as strong as a paper house in a hurricane. </end quote>

Okay. Show me how well you understand my faith. Tell me about all these broken pillars that you've found in the foundation of Christ.
 

Mockingbird

New member
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>Solo</b></i>
Mockingbird, you would be right in expecting a Christian to understand his faith better, but I have been on the other side of the fence; therefore I feel I am in an ideal position to see which side has more broken pillars in it's doctrinal foundation. And Christianity is about as strong as a paper house in a hurricane. </end quote>

Okay. Show me how well you understand my faith. Tell me about all these broken pillars that you've found in the foundation of Christ.
 

Solo

New member
Whoa there Mockingbird, did I strike a nerve? I sense an untapped reservoir of belligerence? But seeing is I've never been one to back down from a challenge, I accept. Where do you want me to start? How about the beginning? So God made the universe (he didn't mention aliens) in 6 days and rested on the 7th. Why would an all powerful God need to rest, why couldn't he think the universe into existence? As I was saying, since there was nobody to work the ground he made Adam right from dust. But right before this impromptu making of Adam, God had looked over everything he created and deemed it good. (Yet the EVIL serpent was in the garden) God then remembered that Adam needed an amiga, so he knocked him out and thieved a rib from him to make Eve. Then God brought all the millions of animal species to Adam to name. (Adam had to have one major migraine, first being knocked out, then forced to name millions of animals.) That must have been quite a trick, how on earth did God manage to bring a dinosaur to Adam without it seeing Adam as food? But God has his ways. In Genesis 2:9 we find out that good trees grow, one that was pleasing to the eye and one that was good for food. But directly in the center of the garden were the trees of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Which begs yet another question- why would a loving God place the cause of Adam and Eve's downfall in their view?
So God makes a tree pleasing to the eyes to draw Adam and eve in not unlike lambs to the slaughter. God makes a tree good for food, then plays "hot potato" with evil and hides it in a tree, where Adam will never find it.
Back on track here, God had given Adam and eve a harsh warning, he said the day they eat from the tree that they will surely die. They didn't, in fact they lived hundreds of years after the incident. You might say God meant a spiritual death; but there is no proof of that, it's merely a blind postulation. How were Adam and Eve supposed to know what death meant? How were they supposed to practice obedience? To teach a someone that is a blank slate something, you must liken it to their environment. For instance, how would I go about teaching a caveman that the word "gaugua" means bus in Spanish, he has no clue what a bus is? Anyway (my mind wonders) how were Adam and eve to know God was telling the truth? How did they know God didn't send the serpent?
So the serpent, whom God created, strolls into the scene and basically tells eve that God is lying and the fruit is good, so both Adam and Eve eat. So God looks for them (if he's omniscient, he should already know.) When God said, "Where were you and who told you to eat from the tree?" Adam should have replied, "You tell us, after all you know everything and created everything." So God throws a hissy fit and punishes them. Now according to Christian doctrine, manknind is born "sinners" because of 2 people's decision in a prehistoric time. How is that fair? No fair God would make everyone suffer over a decision of just 2 people. It's a bit like if you're dad goes on a killing rampage and gets caught, then gets 3 life sentences in jail. Well, he won't live that long, so by Christian logic YOU must go to jail to serve the remainder of his terms. It sounds absurd, doesn't it?

Mockingbird, the bible is the best recruitment tool for atheism so far. Using their own bible against them, it's a bit like using a robber's gun against him. The bible defies all common sense and reason. It is nothing more than an article of faith, it has absolutely nothing to do with rationality. If God is indeed perfect, he picked mentally crippled people to copy his words down. But seeing is humans wrote it, it is no different from any other book. If you ask me, I can't fathom why the majority believe in a 2,000 year old story about a guy nailed to a log of wood but at the same time, fail to also believe in the easter bunny, or santa.

Yea well, that's my take on the first broken pillar. It's your time in the hot seat Mockingbird, the balls in you're court. Remember Mockingbird, you asked for it; you called me out.
 

Solo

New member
Whoa there Mockingbird, did I strike a nerve? I sense an untapped reservoir of belligerence? But seeing is I've never been one to back down from a challenge, I accept. Where do you want me to start? How about the beginning? So God made the universe (he didn't mention aliens) in 6 days and rested on the 7th. Why would an all powerful God need to rest, why couldn't he think the universe into existence? As I was saying, since there was nobody to work the ground he made Adam right from dust. But right before this impromptu making of Adam, God had looked over everything he created and deemed it good. (Yet the EVIL serpent was in the garden) God then remembered that Adam needed an amiga, so he knocked him out and thieved a rib from him to make Eve. Then God brought all the millions of animal species to Adam to name. (Adam had to have one major migraine, first being knocked out, then forced to name millions of animals.) That must have been quite a trick, how on earth did God manage to bring a dinosaur to Adam without it seeing Adam as food? But God has his ways. In Genesis 2:9 we find out that good trees grow, one that was pleasing to the eye and one that was good for food. But directly in the center of the garden were the trees of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Which begs yet another question- why would a loving God place the cause of Adam and Eve's downfall in their view?
So God makes a tree pleasing to the eyes to draw Adam and eve in not unlike lambs to the slaughter. God makes a tree good for food, then plays "hot potato" with evil and hides it in a tree, where Adam will never find it.
Back on track here, God had given Adam and eve a harsh warning, he said the day they eat from the tree that they will surely die. They didn't, in fact they lived hundreds of years after the incident. You might say God meant a spiritual death; but there is no proof of that, it's merely a blind postulation. How were Adam and Eve supposed to know what death meant? How were they supposed to practice obedience? To teach a someone that is a blank slate something, you must liken it to their environment. For instance, how would I go about teaching a caveman that the word "gaugua" means bus in Spanish, he has no clue what a bus is? Anyway (my mind wonders) how were Adam and eve to know God was telling the truth? How did they know God didn't send the serpent?
So the serpent, whom God created, strolls into the scene and basically tells eve that God is lying and the fruit is good, so both Adam and Eve eat. So God looks for them (if he's omniscient, he should already know.) When God said, "Where were you and who told you to eat from the tree?" Adam should have replied, "You tell us, after all you know everything and created everything." So God throws a hissy fit and punishes them. Now according to Christian doctrine, manknind is born "sinners" because of 2 people's decision in a prehistoric time. How is that fair? No fair God would make everyone suffer over a decision of just 2 people. It's a bit like if you're dad goes on a killing rampage and gets caught, then gets 3 life sentences in jail. Well, he won't live that long, so by Christian logic YOU must go to jail to serve the remainder of his terms. It sounds absurd, doesn't it?

Mockingbird, the bible is the best recruitment tool for atheism so far. Using their own bible against them, it's a bit like using a robber's gun against him. The bible defies all common sense and reason. It is nothing more than an article of faith, it has absolutely nothing to do with rationality. If God is indeed perfect, he picked mentally crippled people to copy his words down. But seeing is humans wrote it, it is no different from any other book. If you ask me, I can't fathom why the majority believe in a 2,000 year old story about a guy nailed to a log of wood but at the same time, fail to also believe in the easter bunny, or santa.

Yea well, that's my take on the first broken pillar. It's your time in the hot seat Mockingbird, the balls in you're court. Remember Mockingbird, you asked for it; you called me out.
 

Solo

New member
Whoa there Mockingbird, did I strike a nerve? I sense an untapped reservoir of belligerence? But seeing is I've never been one to back down from a challenge, I accept. Where do you want me to start? How about the beginning? So God made the universe (he didn't mention aliens) in 6 days and rested on the 7th. Why would an all powerful God need to rest, why couldn't he think the universe into existence? As I was saying, since there was nobody to work the ground he made Adam right from dust. But right before this impromptu making of Adam, God had looked over everything he created and deemed it good. (Yet the EVIL serpent was in the garden) God then remembered that Adam needed an amiga, so he knocked him out and thieved a rib from him to make Eve. Then God brought all the millions of animal species to Adam to name. (Adam had to have one major migraine, first being knocked out, then forced to name millions of animals.) That must have been quite a trick, how on earth did God manage to bring a dinosaur to Adam without it seeing Adam as food? But God has his ways. In Genesis 2:9 we find out that good trees grow, one that was pleasing to the eye and one that was good for food. But directly in the center of the garden were the trees of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Which begs yet another question- why would a loving God place the cause of Adam and Eve's downfall in their view?
So God makes a tree pleasing to the eyes to draw Adam and eve in not unlike lambs to the slaughter. God makes a tree good for food, then plays "hot potato" with evil and hides it in a tree, where Adam will never find it.
Back on track here, God had given Adam and eve a harsh warning, he said the day they eat from the tree that they will surely die. They didn't, in fact they lived hundreds of years after the incident. You might say God meant a spiritual death; but there is no proof of that, it's merely a blind postulation. How were Adam and Eve supposed to know what death meant? How were they supposed to practice obedience? To teach a someone that is a blank slate something, you must liken it to their environment. For instance, how would I go about teaching a caveman that the word "gaugua" means bus in Spanish, he has no clue what a bus is? Anyway (my mind wonders) how were Adam and eve to know God was telling the truth? How did they know God didn't send the serpent?
So the serpent, whom God created, strolls into the scene and basically tells eve that God is lying and the fruit is good, so both Adam and Eve eat. So God looks for them (if he's omniscient, he should already know.) When God said, "Where were you and who told you to eat from the tree?" Adam should have replied, "You tell us, after all you know everything and created everything." So God throws a hissy fit and punishes them. Now according to Christian doctrine, manknind is born "sinners" because of 2 people's decision in a prehistoric time. How is that fair? No fair God would make everyone suffer over a decision of just 2 people. It's a bit like if you're dad goes on a killing rampage and gets caught, then gets 3 life sentences in jail. Well, he won't live that long, so by Christian logic YOU must go to jail to serve the remainder of his terms. It sounds absurd, doesn't it?

Mockingbird, the bible is the best recruitment tool for atheism so far. Using their own bible against them, it's a bit like using a robber's gun against him. The bible defies all common sense and reason. It is nothing more than an article of faith, it has absolutely nothing to do with rationality. If God is indeed perfect, he picked mentally crippled people to copy his words down. But seeing is humans wrote it, it is no different from any other book. If you ask me, I can't fathom why the majority believe in a 2,000 year old story about a guy nailed to a log of wood but at the same time, fail to also believe in the easter bunny, or santa.

Yea well, that's my take on the first broken pillar. It's your time in the hot seat Mockingbird, the balls in you're court. Remember Mockingbird, you asked for it; you called me out.
 

Solo

New member
Whoa there Mockingbird, did I strike a nerve? I sense an untapped reservoir of belligerence? But seeing is I've never been one to back down from a challenge, I accept. Where do you want me to start? How about the beginning? So God made the universe (he didn't mention aliens) in 6 days and rested on the 7th. Why would an all powerful God need to rest, why couldn't he think the universe into existence? As I was saying, since there was nobody to work the ground he made Adam right from dust. But right before this impromptu making of Adam, God had looked over everything he created and deemed it good. (Yet the EVIL serpent was in the garden) God then remembered that Adam needed an amiga, so he knocked him out and thieved a rib from him to make Eve. Then God brought all the millions of animal species to Adam to name. (Adam had to have one major migraine, first being knocked out, then forced to name millions of animals.) That must have been quite a trick, how on earth did God manage to bring a dinosaur to Adam without it seeing Adam as food? But God has his ways. In Genesis 2:9 we find out that good trees grow, one that was pleasing to the eye and one that was good for food. But directly in the center of the garden were the trees of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Which begs yet another question- why would a loving God place the cause of Adam and Eve's downfall in their view?
So God makes a tree pleasing to the eyes to draw Adam and eve in not unlike lambs to the slaughter. God makes a tree good for food, then plays "hot potato" with evil and hides it in a tree, where Adam will never find it.
Back on track here, God had given Adam and eve a harsh warning, he said the day they eat from the tree that they will surely die. They didn't, in fact they lived hundreds of years after the incident. You might say God meant a spiritual death; but there is no proof of that, it's merely a blind postulation. How were Adam and Eve supposed to know what death meant? How were they supposed to practice obedience? To teach a someone that is a blank slate something, you must liken it to their environment. For instance, how would I go about teaching a caveman that the word "gaugua" means bus in Spanish, he has no clue what a bus is? Anyway (my mind wonders) how were Adam and eve to know God was telling the truth? How did they know God didn't send the serpent?
So the serpent, whom God created, strolls into the scene and basically tells eve that God is lying and the fruit is good, so both Adam and Eve eat. So God looks for them (if he's omniscient, he should already know.) When God said, "Where were you and who told you to eat from the tree?" Adam should have replied, "You tell us, after all you know everything and created everything." So God throws a hissy fit and punishes them. Now according to Christian doctrine, manknind is born "sinners" because of 2 people's decision in a prehistoric time. How is that fair? No fair God would make everyone suffer over a decision of just 2 people. It's a bit like if you're dad goes on a killing rampage and gets caught, then gets 3 life sentences in jail. Well, he won't live that long, so by Christian logic YOU must go to jail to serve the remainder of his terms. It sounds absurd, doesn't it?

Mockingbird, the bible is the best recruitment tool for atheism so far. Using their own bible against them, it's a bit like using a robber's gun against him. The bible defies all common sense and reason. It is nothing more than an article of faith, it has absolutely nothing to do with rationality. If God is indeed perfect, he picked mentally crippled people to copy his words down. But seeing is humans wrote it, it is no different from any other book. If you ask me, I can't fathom why the majority believe in a 2,000 year old story about a guy nailed to a log of wood but at the same time, fail to also believe in the easter bunny, or santa.

Yea well, that's my take on the first broken pillar. It's your time in the hot seat Mockingbird, the balls in you're court. Remember Mockingbird, you asked for it; you called me out.
 

Solo

New member
Whoa there Mockingbird, did I strike a nerve? I sense an untapped reservoir of belligerence? But seeing is I've never been one to back down from a challenge, I accept. Where do you want me to start? How about the beginning? So God made the universe (he didn't mention aliens) in 6 days and rested on the 7th. Why would an all powerful God need to rest, why couldn't he think the universe into existence? As I was saying, since there was nobody to work the ground he made Adam right from dust. But right before this impromptu making of Adam, God had looked over everything he created and deemed it good. (Yet the EVIL serpent was in the garden) God then remembered that Adam needed an amiga, so he knocked him out and thieved a rib from him to make Eve. Then God brought all the millions of animal species to Adam to name. (Adam had to have one major migraine, first being knocked out, then forced to name millions of animals.) That must have been quite a trick, how on earth did God manage to bring a dinosaur to Adam without it seeing Adam as food? But God has his ways. In Genesis 2:9 we find out that good trees grow, one that was pleasing to the eye and one that was good for food. But directly in the center of the garden were the trees of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Which begs yet another question- why would a loving God place the cause of Adam and Eve's downfall in their view?
So God makes a tree pleasing to the eyes to draw Adam and eve in not unlike lambs to the slaughter. God makes a tree good for food, then plays "hot potato" with evil and hides it in a tree, where Adam will never find it.
Back on track here, God had given Adam and eve a harsh warning, he said the day they eat from the tree that they will surely die. They didn't, in fact they lived hundreds of years after the incident. You might say God meant a spiritual death; but there is no proof of that, it's merely a blind postulation. How were Adam and Eve supposed to know what death meant? How were they supposed to practice obedience? To teach a someone that is a blank slate something, you must liken it to their environment. For instance, how would I go about teaching a caveman that the word "gaugua" means bus in Spanish, he has no clue what a bus is? Anyway (my mind wonders) how were Adam and eve to know God was telling the truth? How did they know God didn't send the serpent?
So the serpent, whom God created, strolls into the scene and basically tells eve that God is lying and the fruit is good, so both Adam and Eve eat. So God looks for them (if he's omniscient, he should already know.) When God said, "Where were you and who told you to eat from the tree?" Adam should have replied, "You tell us, after all you know everything and created everything." So God throws a hissy fit and punishes them. Now according to Christian doctrine, manknind is born "sinners" because of 2 people's decision in a prehistoric time. How is that fair? No fair God would make everyone suffer over a decision of just 2 people. It's a bit like if you're dad goes on a killing rampage and gets caught, then gets 3 life sentences in jail. Well, he won't live that long, so by Christian logic YOU must go to jail to serve the remainder of his terms. It sounds absurd, doesn't it?

Mockingbird, the bible is the best recruitment tool for atheism so far. Using their own bible against them, it's a bit like using a robber's gun against him. The bible defies all common sense and reason. It is nothing more than an article of faith, it has absolutely nothing to do with rationality. If God is indeed perfect, he picked mentally crippled people to copy his words down. But seeing is humans wrote it, it is no different from any other book. If you ask me, I can't fathom why the majority believe in a 2,000 year old story about a guy nailed to a log of wood but at the same time, fail to also believe in the easter bunny, or santa.

Yea well, that's my take on the first broken pillar. It's your time in the hot seat Mockingbird, the balls in you're court. Remember Mockingbird, you asked for it; you called me out.
 

Mockingbird

New member
<i>Why would God need to rest on the seventh day?</i>

In the book of Hebrews, it says, "For we who have believed enter that rest, just as he has said, 'As I swore in My wrath, they shall not enter My rest,' although His works were finished from the foundation of the world. For He has said somewhere concerning the seventh day: 'And God rested on the seventh day from all His works'; and again in this passage, 'They shall not enter My rest,' " Hebrews 4:3-6. So, we can see God did not rest in the sense that He was tired, but rather rested in fellowship with the world He had just created; or in the sense that believers will rest with Him for eternity.

<i>Why would a loving God place the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the garden?</i>

Lets say you're the parent of a child. Obviously, you don't want your child to make a bad decision, but does that mean you become overprotective of the child and never allow them to make a decision on their own? Sometimes a parent has to allow a child to make a bad decision because they love their child. If God created Adam and Eve but only gave them the option of serving Him, what kind of God would that be? Then God truly would be a fascist God.

However, it is incorrect to say that God made the pleasing in order to draw Adam and Eve in. As it says, "Let no one say when he is being tempted, 'I am being tempted by God'; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone. But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust. Then, when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death." James 1:13-15

Adam and Eve did not need to be taught obedience because they were created in the likeness and image of God. When God told Adam not to eat of the tree, it was not like a parent telling a child to stay away from a hot stove, but rather a mutual understanding between God and Adam. However, Adam and Eve were both carried away and enticed by their own lust (not meaning sexual lust). They saw the tree was good for food, it was a delight to the eyes, and it was desirable to make one wise. They lusted after the fruit, and it gave birth to sin. Lust is simply desiring something God has created in a way that God did not intend. Sin is simply separation from God.

Now, if God is the source of life, and sin is separation from God, then it follows that sin is separation from life. That is to say, death. Not spiritual death, as you have supposed, but condemnation of eternal death. As it says, "When you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness." Romans 6:16 and "The wages of sin is death." Romans 6:23.

As to why Adam and Eve didn't just drop dead on the spot, "Do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day. The Lord is not slow about His promises, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance." 2 Peter 3:8-9

<i> Why did God ask Adam ""Where were you and who told you to eat from the tree?"</i>

I would suspect for the same reason a parent would ask a child what happened to the cookies in the cookie jar, or how the window got broken, etc. We see God doing the same thing with Cain: "Then the Lord said to Cain, 'Where is your brother?' and he said, "Am I my brother's keeper?' He said, "What have you done? The voice of your brother's blood is crying up to Me from the ground." Genesis 4:9-10.

<i>What was the serpent doing in the garden, anyway?</i>

It is true that the serpent could only have been in the garden if God allowed him to be there. Furthermore, God would have known full well of what the serpent was doing. So why did God allow it? God could have been overprotective and overbearing, I suppose, but once again, that would make Him a bit of a fascist.

<i>Why are we all condemned because of Adam's sin?</i>

In many parts of the Bible, it seems like God punishes the children for the sins of the parents. However, as it says, "Through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned." Romans 5:12. It does not say death spread to all men because through one man sin entered the world, but rather, death spread to all men because all sinned. We are each responsible for our own sin and no one else's. There has only been one man who took the sin of others upon Himself, and that is Jesus Christ.

In Him we have the choice of Adam once again. Do we take from the Tree of Life, that is to say, Jesus Christ, or do we continue to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil?
 

Mockingbird

New member
<i>Why would God need to rest on the seventh day?</i>

In the book of Hebrews, it says, "For we who have believed enter that rest, just as he has said, 'As I swore in My wrath, they shall not enter My rest,' although His works were finished from the foundation of the world. For He has said somewhere concerning the seventh day: 'And God rested on the seventh day from all His works'; and again in this passage, 'They shall not enter My rest,' " Hebrews 4:3-6. So, we can see God did not rest in the sense that He was tired, but rather rested in fellowship with the world He had just created; or in the sense that believers will rest with Him for eternity.

<i>Why would a loving God place the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the garden?</i>

Lets say you're the parent of a child. Obviously, you don't want your child to make a bad decision, but does that mean you become overprotective of the child and never allow them to make a decision on their own? Sometimes a parent has to allow a child to make a bad decision because they love their child. If God created Adam and Eve but only gave them the option of serving Him, what kind of God would that be? Then God truly would be a fascist God.

However, it is incorrect to say that God made the pleasing in order to draw Adam and Eve in. As it says, "Let no one say when he is being tempted, 'I am being tempted by God'; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone. But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust. Then, when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death." James 1:13-15

Adam and Eve did not need to be taught obedience because they were created in the likeness and image of God. When God told Adam not to eat of the tree, it was not like a parent telling a child to stay away from a hot stove, but rather a mutual understanding between God and Adam. However, Adam and Eve were both carried away and enticed by their own lust (not meaning sexual lust). They saw the tree was good for food, it was a delight to the eyes, and it was desirable to make one wise. They lusted after the fruit, and it gave birth to sin. Lust is simply desiring something God has created in a way that God did not intend. Sin is simply separation from God.

Now, if God is the source of life, and sin is separation from God, then it follows that sin is separation from life. That is to say, death. Not spiritual death, as you have supposed, but condemnation of eternal death. As it says, "When you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness." Romans 6:16 and "The wages of sin is death." Romans 6:23.

As to why Adam and Eve didn't just drop dead on the spot, "Do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day. The Lord is not slow about His promises, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance." 2 Peter 3:8-9

<i> Why did God ask Adam ""Where were you and who told you to eat from the tree?"</i>

I would suspect for the same reason a parent would ask a child what happened to the cookies in the cookie jar, or how the window got broken, etc. We see God doing the same thing with Cain: "Then the Lord said to Cain, 'Where is your brother?' and he said, "Am I my brother's keeper?' He said, "What have you done? The voice of your brother's blood is crying up to Me from the ground." Genesis 4:9-10.

<i>What was the serpent doing in the garden, anyway?</i>

It is true that the serpent could only have been in the garden if God allowed him to be there. Furthermore, God would have known full well of what the serpent was doing. So why did God allow it? God could have been overprotective and overbearing, I suppose, but once again, that would make Him a bit of a fascist.

<i>Why are we all condemned because of Adam's sin?</i>

In many parts of the Bible, it seems like God punishes the children for the sins of the parents. However, as it says, "Through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned." Romans 5:12. It does not say death spread to all men because through one man sin entered the world, but rather, death spread to all men because all sinned. We are each responsible for our own sin and no one else's. There has only been one man who took the sin of others upon Himself, and that is Jesus Christ.

In Him we have the choice of Adam once again. Do we take from the Tree of Life, that is to say, Jesus Christ, or do we continue to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil?
 

Mockingbird

New member
<i>Why would God need to rest on the seventh day?</i>

In the book of Hebrews, it says, "For we who have believed enter that rest, just as he has said, 'As I swore in My wrath, they shall not enter My rest,' although His works were finished from the foundation of the world. For He has said somewhere concerning the seventh day: 'And God rested on the seventh day from all His works'; and again in this passage, 'They shall not enter My rest,' " Hebrews 4:3-6. So, we can see God did not rest in the sense that He was tired, but rather rested in fellowship with the world He had just created; or in the sense that believers will rest with Him for eternity.

<i>Why would a loving God place the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the garden?</i>

Lets say you're the parent of a child. Obviously, you don't want your child to make a bad decision, but does that mean you become overprotective of the child and never allow them to make a decision on their own? Sometimes a parent has to allow a child to make a bad decision because they love their child. If God created Adam and Eve but only gave them the option of serving Him, what kind of God would that be? Then God truly would be a fascist God.

However, it is incorrect to say that God made the pleasing in order to draw Adam and Eve in. As it says, "Let no one say when he is being tempted, 'I am being tempted by God'; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone. But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust. Then, when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death." James 1:13-15

Adam and Eve did not need to be taught obedience because they were created in the likeness and image of God. When God told Adam not to eat of the tree, it was not like a parent telling a child to stay away from a hot stove, but rather a mutual understanding between God and Adam. However, Adam and Eve were both carried away and enticed by their own lust (not meaning sexual lust). They saw the tree was good for food, it was a delight to the eyes, and it was desirable to make one wise. They lusted after the fruit, and it gave birth to sin. Lust is simply desiring something God has created in a way that God did not intend. Sin is simply separation from God.

Now, if God is the source of life, and sin is separation from God, then it follows that sin is separation from life. That is to say, death. Not spiritual death, as you have supposed, but condemnation of eternal death. As it says, "When you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness." Romans 6:16 and "The wages of sin is death." Romans 6:23.

As to why Adam and Eve didn't just drop dead on the spot, "Do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day. The Lord is not slow about His promises, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance." 2 Peter 3:8-9

<i> Why did God ask Adam ""Where were you and who told you to eat from the tree?"</i>

I would suspect for the same reason a parent would ask a child what happened to the cookies in the cookie jar, or how the window got broken, etc. We see God doing the same thing with Cain: "Then the Lord said to Cain, 'Where is your brother?' and he said, "Am I my brother's keeper?' He said, "What have you done? The voice of your brother's blood is crying up to Me from the ground." Genesis 4:9-10.

<i>What was the serpent doing in the garden, anyway?</i>

It is true that the serpent could only have been in the garden if God allowed him to be there. Furthermore, God would have known full well of what the serpent was doing. So why did God allow it? God could have been overprotective and overbearing, I suppose, but once again, that would make Him a bit of a fascist.

<i>Why are we all condemned because of Adam's sin?</i>

In many parts of the Bible, it seems like God punishes the children for the sins of the parents. However, as it says, "Through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned." Romans 5:12. It does not say death spread to all men because through one man sin entered the world, but rather, death spread to all men because all sinned. We are each responsible for our own sin and no one else's. There has only been one man who took the sin of others upon Himself, and that is Jesus Christ.

In Him we have the choice of Adam once again. Do we take from the Tree of Life, that is to say, Jesus Christ, or do we continue to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil?
 

Mockingbird

New member
<i>Why would God need to rest on the seventh day?</i>

In the book of Hebrews, it says, "For we who have believed enter that rest, just as he has said, 'As I swore in My wrath, they shall not enter My rest,' although His works were finished from the foundation of the world. For He has said somewhere concerning the seventh day: 'And God rested on the seventh day from all His works'; and again in this passage, 'They shall not enter My rest,' " Hebrews 4:3-6. So, we can see God did not rest in the sense that He was tired, but rather rested in fellowship with the world He had just created; or in the sense that believers will rest with Him for eternity.

<i>Why would a loving God place the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the garden?</i>

Lets say you're the parent of a child. Obviously, you don't want your child to make a bad decision, but does that mean you become overprotective of the child and never allow them to make a decision on their own? Sometimes a parent has to allow a child to make a bad decision because they love their child. If God created Adam and Eve but only gave them the option of serving Him, what kind of God would that be? Then God truly would be a fascist God.

However, it is incorrect to say that God made the pleasing in order to draw Adam and Eve in. As it says, "Let no one say when he is being tempted, 'I am being tempted by God'; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone. But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust. Then, when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death." James 1:13-15

Adam and Eve did not need to be taught obedience because they were created in the likeness and image of God. When God told Adam not to eat of the tree, it was not like a parent telling a child to stay away from a hot stove, but rather a mutual understanding between God and Adam. However, Adam and Eve were both carried away and enticed by their own lust (not meaning sexual lust). They saw the tree was good for food, it was a delight to the eyes, and it was desirable to make one wise. They lusted after the fruit, and it gave birth to sin. Lust is simply desiring something God has created in a way that God did not intend. Sin is simply separation from God.

Now, if God is the source of life, and sin is separation from God, then it follows that sin is separation from life. That is to say, death. Not spiritual death, as you have supposed, but condemnation of eternal death. As it says, "When you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness." Romans 6:16 and "The wages of sin is death." Romans 6:23.

As to why Adam and Eve didn't just drop dead on the spot, "Do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day. The Lord is not slow about His promises, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance." 2 Peter 3:8-9

<i> Why did God ask Adam ""Where were you and who told you to eat from the tree?"</i>

I would suspect for the same reason a parent would ask a child what happened to the cookies in the cookie jar, or how the window got broken, etc. We see God doing the same thing with Cain: "Then the Lord said to Cain, 'Where is your brother?' and he said, "Am I my brother's keeper?' He said, "What have you done? The voice of your brother's blood is crying up to Me from the ground." Genesis 4:9-10.

<i>What was the serpent doing in the garden, anyway?</i>

It is true that the serpent could only have been in the garden if God allowed him to be there. Furthermore, God would have known full well of what the serpent was doing. So why did God allow it? God could have been overprotective and overbearing, I suppose, but once again, that would make Him a bit of a fascist.

<i>Why are we all condemned because of Adam's sin?</i>

In many parts of the Bible, it seems like God punishes the children for the sins of the parents. However, as it says, "Through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned." Romans 5:12. It does not say death spread to all men because through one man sin entered the world, but rather, death spread to all men because all sinned. We are each responsible for our own sin and no one else's. There has only been one man who took the sin of others upon Himself, and that is Jesus Christ.

In Him we have the choice of Adam once again. Do we take from the Tree of Life, that is to say, Jesus Christ, or do we continue to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil?
 

Mockingbird

New member
<i>Why would God need to rest on the seventh day?</i>

In the book of Hebrews, it says, "For we who have believed enter that rest, just as he has said, 'As I swore in My wrath, they shall not enter My rest,' although His works were finished from the foundation of the world. For He has said somewhere concerning the seventh day: 'And God rested on the seventh day from all His works'; and again in this passage, 'They shall not enter My rest,' " Hebrews 4:3-6. So, we can see God did not rest in the sense that He was tired, but rather rested in fellowship with the world He had just created; or in the sense that believers will rest with Him for eternity.

<i>Why would a loving God place the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the garden?</i>

Lets say you're the parent of a child. Obviously, you don't want your child to make a bad decision, but does that mean you become overprotective of the child and never allow them to make a decision on their own? Sometimes a parent has to allow a child to make a bad decision because they love their child. If God created Adam and Eve but only gave them the option of serving Him, what kind of God would that be? Then God truly would be a fascist God.

However, it is incorrect to say that God made the pleasing in order to draw Adam and Eve in. As it says, "Let no one say when he is being tempted, 'I am being tempted by God'; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone. But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust. Then, when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death." James 1:13-15

Adam and Eve did not need to be taught obedience because they were created in the likeness and image of God. When God told Adam not to eat of the tree, it was not like a parent telling a child to stay away from a hot stove, but rather a mutual understanding between God and Adam. However, Adam and Eve were both carried away and enticed by their own lust (not meaning sexual lust). They saw the tree was good for food, it was a delight to the eyes, and it was desirable to make one wise. They lusted after the fruit, and it gave birth to sin. Lust is simply desiring something God has created in a way that God did not intend. Sin is simply separation from God.

Now, if God is the source of life, and sin is separation from God, then it follows that sin is separation from life. That is to say, death. Not spiritual death, as you have supposed, but condemnation of eternal death. As it says, "When you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness." Romans 6:16 and "The wages of sin is death." Romans 6:23.

As to why Adam and Eve didn't just drop dead on the spot, "Do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day. The Lord is not slow about His promises, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance." 2 Peter 3:8-9

<i> Why did God ask Adam ""Where were you and who told you to eat from the tree?"</i>

I would suspect for the same reason a parent would ask a child what happened to the cookies in the cookie jar, or how the window got broken, etc. We see God doing the same thing with Cain: "Then the Lord said to Cain, 'Where is your brother?' and he said, "Am I my brother's keeper?' He said, "What have you done? The voice of your brother's blood is crying up to Me from the ground." Genesis 4:9-10.

<i>What was the serpent doing in the garden, anyway?</i>

It is true that the serpent could only have been in the garden if God allowed him to be there. Furthermore, God would have known full well of what the serpent was doing. So why did God allow it? God could have been overprotective and overbearing, I suppose, but once again, that would make Him a bit of a fascist.

<i>Why are we all condemned because of Adam's sin?</i>

In many parts of the Bible, it seems like God punishes the children for the sins of the parents. However, as it says, "Through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned." Romans 5:12. It does not say death spread to all men because through one man sin entered the world, but rather, death spread to all men because all sinned. We are each responsible for our own sin and no one else's. There has only been one man who took the sin of others upon Himself, and that is Jesus Christ.

In Him we have the choice of Adam once again. Do we take from the Tree of Life, that is to say, Jesus Christ, or do we continue to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil?
 

Solo

New member
Mockingbird, by no means am I blowing you off, I will reply, it's just that I got alot on my plate now. I don't really have the time to type out a long-winded response just yet.<img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif" border="0">
 

Solo

New member
Mockingbird, by no means am I blowing you off, I will reply, it's just that I got alot on my plate now. I don't really have the time to type out a long-winded response just yet.<img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif" border="0">
 

Solo

New member
Mockingbird, by no means am I blowing you off, I will reply, it's just that I got alot on my plate now. I don't really have the time to type out a long-winded response just yet.<img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif" border="0">
 

Solo

New member
Mockingbird, by no means am I blowing you off, I will reply, it's just that I got alot on my plate now. I don't really have the time to type out a long-winded response just yet.<img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif" border="0">
 

Solo

New member
Mockingbird, by no means am I blowing you off, I will reply, it's just that I got alot on my plate now. I don't really have the time to type out a long-winded response just yet.<img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif" border="0">
 
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