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Supreme Court Ruling Obamacare Upheld
- Thread starter randford
- Start date
I appreciate your well thought out post Jbrandyn. It's sad we cannot focus on what's most important (affordable and accessible healthcare) without shock value words/phrases like "socialist" or "middle class burden" being thrown about. Our system is broken and something needs to be done. I feel like I'm watching a magic show sometimes when people discuss this topic. Look over here at this "scary word" while I distract you from the real topic.
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>jbrandyn</b></i> Ifg your insurance went up it is because your insurance company made that decision in order to make more money before it becomes illegal to gouge prices on the disabled. I have read the entire bill... it took while. It is solid legislation, complete will all the partisan crap you could hope for, but it is a good bill and a good first step in making healthcare available to all Americans. The next logical step will be to make profiting from research very limited and probably put it all back into universities and non-profit research institutes so pharma companies will just be the means of production. That would bring prices down and fund education! YAY. Most American people do not understand the European systems ( there are many, many Euro models) and honestly there are parts of it that Americans cannot wrap their heads around because of all the lies and vitriol they have heard about it, as well it clashes with a few social myths we have about America and our presumed level of equality. Canada's system is easy to understand, but people fail to remember that Canada is very spread out so access is harder for a lot of people and they do not have the buying power of a nation the size of the US so they really are not a good analogy for what a single payor system would look like in the states. It is really the size and availability of health care infrastructure that would make a universal system so good in the US. Upper class areas would not need to build more, and public energies could go into building infrastructure in poorer and middle class areas. As well having a universal system would drop prices because the US would (still) control the health care market and thus have incredible power to sway prices. As it stands we have that power, but in a lot of entities. For instance Medicaid and Medicare are good at controlling prices because they have the teeth of the government, Kaiser is good at it too because they have so many people enrolled. A universal system would essentially give the American people the power to demand fair and non-gouged prices. Plus it would expand coverage to al ot of people who do not have healthcare because they are poor, especially populations of people of color would benefit. Sorry I kind of nerded-out right there.... It is an exciting time for policy analysis indeed!</end quote>
This is pretty informative. I'm not too familiar with the European model other than what I hear on TV.
This is pretty informative. I'm not too familiar with the European model other than what I hear on TV.
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>CrisDopher</b></i> CF patients can get TB just like everybody else. Where did you hear they can't?</end quote>
I think I was at Emory once and I heard patients talking about it. Guess they were wrong. Thanks for the info.
I think I was at Emory once and I heard patients talking about it. Guess they were wrong. Thanks for the info.
So I'm looking at my health insurance maximum at $2 million for catastrophic coverage. What happens when that $2 million is reached and I need a procedure that would save my life? Ya know, people refer to "death panels" within the Affordable Health Act. Yet when you think about it, what does an insurance company do when you reach your maximum. They deny you so in effect, the insurance company become a death panel. One employee sits in an office somewhere and decides your fate. Either way, we can't win.
Then there is the recent argument that single-payer is now a "tax" and upheld. People cry foul but just think about how premiums are skyrocketing. Cause and effect? No doubt. You don't hear the health insurance companies complaining. Just think what would happen to Apple stock prices if the government mandated that we all should have iPhones? Apple would get even richer. As a result of the heath care changes, at least 50% of the insurance broker/agents in Georgia are gone now due to Obamacare. The carriers cut out the middle man to reduce costs even more That's part of why they're posting such hugh profits. No matter I guess.
When will there be tort reform, non-taxation of premiums and portability so that carriers across states can compete? you never hear ANY politician discuss tort reform. Whether it's premiums or taxes, the tax payers are always left to pay the bill.
Then there is the recent argument that single-payer is now a "tax" and upheld. People cry foul but just think about how premiums are skyrocketing. Cause and effect? No doubt. You don't hear the health insurance companies complaining. Just think what would happen to Apple stock prices if the government mandated that we all should have iPhones? Apple would get even richer. As a result of the heath care changes, at least 50% of the insurance broker/agents in Georgia are gone now due to Obamacare. The carriers cut out the middle man to reduce costs even more That's part of why they're posting such hugh profits. No matter I guess.
When will there be tort reform, non-taxation of premiums and portability so that carriers across states can compete? you never hear ANY politician discuss tort reform. Whether it's premiums or taxes, the tax payers are always left to pay the bill.
CyrilCrodius
New member
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>all4Eden</b></i> You need to read this healthcare bill and look at the Canadian and European. Understand that this president along with his entourage, has a very heavy socialist agenda. To my understanding, the middle class is going to get hit hard. Especially after 2015. 1st phase of this bill is already hitting my wallet. My copay went up, medicine went up, Eden's treatment went up. Some medicine that either her or my wife is not covered by my insurance. The best thing for us to do is pray, pray and pray some more.</end quote>
The problem isn't the "socialist agenda", the problem is that your government is doing it wrong.
There should be a cap on copays that represents a percentage of people's revenue. <em>That</em>, is doing it right.
Your laws are reputable for allowing a trendemous amount of financial abuse on people. People have that weird mentality think that free-market should sort things out, but see, it does not. Before, you had insurance companies that could refuse coverage to people with pre-existing conditions. Now, you have insurances companies that can raise prices as much as they want. It's silly to think that free-market is going to sort out abuse.
The problem isn't the "socialist agenda", the problem is that your government is doing it wrong.
There should be a cap on copays that represents a percentage of people's revenue. <em>That</em>, is doing it right.
Your laws are reputable for allowing a trendemous amount of financial abuse on people. People have that weird mentality think that free-market should sort things out, but see, it does not. Before, you had insurance companies that could refuse coverage to people with pre-existing conditions. Now, you have insurances companies that can raise prices as much as they want. It's silly to think that free-market is going to sort out abuse.
CyrilCrodius
New member
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>robert321</b></i> The big problem in all of this is "who is going to pay for drug development?" Its a business just like anything else and it must make money or it will not do the work. Yes there is a problem but cutting the money out from under the pharmaceutical companies is not the solution. Strong arming the price down will only result in a screeching halt to drug development such as kalydeco and the other vertex studies, but yes your tobi will be cheaper. Drug research in universities is based on grad students wanting to go into pharmaceuticals to do for-profit research. If there isn't for-profit research, there isn't university research, leaving only organizations like the cff to fund the research and whatever can be acquired from the government, if anything. I don't understand how people think that the solution to a problem such as this is to turn it over to a government who can't manage keep the postal system in the black, has a perpetual social security system with an expiration date, is trillions of dollars in debt without a solution, etc. The government has tried its hand at healthcare, ask a veteran about his VA health coverage and tricare insurance and you won't be so optimistic</end quote>
Not all drug companies are in the US. Did you know that? Yes, drug development is possibles and DOES happen in countries with socialized health care. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pharmaceutical_companies">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pharmaceutical_companies</a>
Companies ranking 3-4-5-6-7 and 10 are european companies. They are in countries with socialized health care.... and they manage to develop drugs and make money too!
Until WWII, Europe was still leading in drug development. It would still be leading if it had not been destroyed by war. That drug development depends on the abusive American market is a myth. Yes, the world would be able to live without America.
Not all drug companies are in the US. Did you know that? Yes, drug development is possibles and DOES happen in countries with socialized health care. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pharmaceutical_companies">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pharmaceutical_companies</a>
Companies ranking 3-4-5-6-7 and 10 are european companies. They are in countries with socialized health care.... and they manage to develop drugs and make money too!
Until WWII, Europe was still leading in drug development. It would still be leading if it had not been destroyed by war. That drug development depends on the abusive American market is a myth. Yes, the world would be able to live without America.
0bamacare is already hurting those that need affordable healthcare the most, CFer's especially. Since it passed. I now have to pay more out-of-pocket through BCBS. Tests and visits that were once covered 100% are no longer, add that to my co-pays, it is becoming very hard to make ends meet while taking care of health.
Now while this Bill has been touted to protect those with preexisting conditions and support " preventative care"... I have yet seen ANYTHING suggesting it will. Supporters of Obamacare say costs will lower in a few years when it is fully implemented. Yet we are the ones holding the bag in the meantime... With the rising costs and increasing premiums it will reach the point that I'm better off dropping my insurance and taking the penalty they wish to impose. Now while on paper that makes sense, I'll lose what was once a good HMO and probably my doctor. Then I'll be stuck with some form inadequate healthcare the government approves. I know I won't be the only one in this boat.
And this is where Obamacare is going to back-fire... In the effort to make healthcare "affordable" by mandating everyone carry Health Insurance to try and SPREAD the costs across a larger consumer base, those that are healthy or can't afford the rising costs will just opt for the penalty thus causing insurance premiums to SKY-ROCKET and the BURDEN of coverage for millions thrown directly onto the American Taxpayer!
The price-tag on Obamacare is a GUESS at best and is based on everyone playing along to avoid a relatively modest "TAX". If or when this turd of a law fully rolls out it will implode and drag the American economy and standard of living down the toilet with it!
Now while this Bill has been touted to protect those with preexisting conditions and support " preventative care"... I have yet seen ANYTHING suggesting it will. Supporters of Obamacare say costs will lower in a few years when it is fully implemented. Yet we are the ones holding the bag in the meantime... With the rising costs and increasing premiums it will reach the point that I'm better off dropping my insurance and taking the penalty they wish to impose. Now while on paper that makes sense, I'll lose what was once a good HMO and probably my doctor. Then I'll be stuck with some form inadequate healthcare the government approves. I know I won't be the only one in this boat.
And this is where Obamacare is going to back-fire... In the effort to make healthcare "affordable" by mandating everyone carry Health Insurance to try and SPREAD the costs across a larger consumer base, those that are healthy or can't afford the rising costs will just opt for the penalty thus causing insurance premiums to SKY-ROCKET and the BURDEN of coverage for millions thrown directly onto the American Taxpayer!
The price-tag on Obamacare is a GUESS at best and is based on everyone playing along to avoid a relatively modest "TAX". If or when this turd of a law fully rolls out it will implode and drag the American economy and standard of living down the toilet with it!
Abnormal:
I want to reply to your post and I want to be kind to you. Instead of calling you an idiot, I'm only going to assume that you are ignorant to Health Insurance and to Obamacare.
Before Obamacare, in the last ten years insurance costs have gone up 100%. Without Obamacare insurance costs are expected to go up 200% over the next ten years. I have no idea how old that you are but I can tell you in the 25 years since I've been dx with CF, costly medical care has mushroomed. 25 years age we didn't even have Cipro.
Unless you are under 14, and now covered for per-existing conditions or between 18 and 26 and can be covered on your parents health insurance policy, Obamacare hardly exists. Most of this bill wont kick in until 2014.
As to your insurance cost and co-pays going up, you most likely get your insurance through your employer. BSBC annually visits your employer to renew the insurance plan. Like a car dealer, they want to sell the product with all the bells and whistles. Your employer, on the other hand, wants to cut costs. Your employer then buys the stripped down model. Higher employee premiums, higher co-pays and lifetime caps. All of this is between BSBC and your employer. Obamacare has nothing to do with it.
I live in Massachusetts, so we have Romneycare. Before Romneycare, uninsured people would go to the ER with everything from a runny nose to having been in a life threating auto accident. Under Federal law, the hospital is required to treat them, FREE OF CHARGE, until they can leave the hospital. Several months in the case of the auto accident.
Romneycare is saving Massachusetts in excess of ONE BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR.
Only 2% of the MASSACHUSETTS population now goes without insurance.
Bill
I want to reply to your post and I want to be kind to you. Instead of calling you an idiot, I'm only going to assume that you are ignorant to Health Insurance and to Obamacare.
Before Obamacare, in the last ten years insurance costs have gone up 100%. Without Obamacare insurance costs are expected to go up 200% over the next ten years. I have no idea how old that you are but I can tell you in the 25 years since I've been dx with CF, costly medical care has mushroomed. 25 years age we didn't even have Cipro.
Unless you are under 14, and now covered for per-existing conditions or between 18 and 26 and can be covered on your parents health insurance policy, Obamacare hardly exists. Most of this bill wont kick in until 2014.
As to your insurance cost and co-pays going up, you most likely get your insurance through your employer. BSBC annually visits your employer to renew the insurance plan. Like a car dealer, they want to sell the product with all the bells and whistles. Your employer, on the other hand, wants to cut costs. Your employer then buys the stripped down model. Higher employee premiums, higher co-pays and lifetime caps. All of this is between BSBC and your employer. Obamacare has nothing to do with it.
I live in Massachusetts, so we have Romneycare. Before Romneycare, uninsured people would go to the ER with everything from a runny nose to having been in a life threating auto accident. Under Federal law, the hospital is required to treat them, FREE OF CHARGE, until they can leave the hospital. Several months in the case of the auto accident.
Romneycare is saving Massachusetts in excess of ONE BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR.
Only 2% of the MASSACHUSETTS population now goes without insurance.
Bill
LIL LAB 4 CF has me pegged perfectly when he says, printer does not suffer fools easily.
By the way. Romneycare has set up a Commonwealth of Massachusetts office with the sole function of collecting funds from those who have benefited in a Massachusetts Hospital with FREE CARE. They first take all of your bank accounts, car, boat even your house. Then they attach future earnings.
Bill
By the way. Romneycare has set up a Commonwealth of Massachusetts office with the sole function of collecting funds from those who have benefited in a Massachusetts Hospital with FREE CARE. They first take all of your bank accounts, car, boat even your house. Then they attach future earnings.
Bill
musclemania70
New member
i have to say, if they set up the public option anything like the way they run medicare, social security, ssi, and ssd, we are in big trouble.
I just got a check from my medicare part d insurer for $1.90 for a claim with a date of service 1-12-10.
that means they are NOW balancing their books in JULY 2012 for claims that transpired 2 and half years ago. SCARY.
Not to mention that I have recently received several letters from Social Security stating that I owe money from Disability overpayments in 2003! Yes 2003! They are that far behind. And each of the three letters I have received in the last 10 mos have had differnt amounts; first i owed 12k, then I owed 8k, then i owed 35k, then I owed 19k.
THIS is the kind of BS that the gov't cannot figure out and its scary to think they will have public option for anyone to use. FRIGHTENING.
So if you are hoping this public option is going to go along and make it easy for people to use, I'd think twice and keep your private insurance.
I just got a check from my medicare part d insurer for $1.90 for a claim with a date of service 1-12-10.
that means they are NOW balancing their books in JULY 2012 for claims that transpired 2 and half years ago. SCARY.
Not to mention that I have recently received several letters from Social Security stating that I owe money from Disability overpayments in 2003! Yes 2003! They are that far behind. And each of the three letters I have received in the last 10 mos have had differnt amounts; first i owed 12k, then I owed 8k, then i owed 35k, then I owed 19k.
THIS is the kind of BS that the gov't cannot figure out and its scary to think they will have public option for anyone to use. FRIGHTENING.
So if you are hoping this public option is going to go along and make it easy for people to use, I'd think twice and keep your private insurance.
I love Trisha, she has an sterling record of outstanding posts here. Trisha lives in Spain. Spain's economy includes "free health care". Spain's economy had to be bailed out by Germany.
There is no such thing as a FREE LUNCH.
I agree Keith, we have a long way to go and ELECTIONS MATTER.
Bill
There is no such thing as a FREE LUNCH.
I agree Keith, we have a long way to go and ELECTIONS MATTER.
Bill
L
ladeedah
Guest
I've just been a "fly on the wall" and had no intention of saying anything because I have long been a believer that the US has needed Universal Health Care. I have many friends in Europe and Canada and they are always bewildered that the US is the only industrialized country without Universal Health Care. I just wanted to thank jbrandyn for taking the time to post such a knowledgeable response.
musclemania70
New member
one other thing that i'm not sure other countries have is LOBBYISTS. America is notorious for them and the gov't will only do what they are pressured to do by lobbyists. THEY'RE the ones that call the shots.
CyrilCrodius
New member
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>musclemania70</b></i> one other thing that i'm not sure other countries have is LOBBYISTS. America is notorious for them and the gov't will only do what they are pressured to do by lobbyists. THEY'RE the ones that call the shots.</end quote>
So what you have is effectively a ploutocracy, not a democracy. It doesn't matter that you can elect your own representatives, when in the end it's those who have money who run the decisions they take.
So what you have is effectively a ploutocracy, not a democracy. It doesn't matter that you can elect your own representatives, when in the end it's those who have money who run the decisions they take.
musclemania70
New member
Printer- then if it is a private insurance carrier that the gov't chose as one of their part d options how is it any better? The gov't is then selecting private insurance carriers who are just as incompetent?
CyrilCrodius---ABSOLUTELY. THAT IS HOW IT WORKS IN AMERICA. ANYONE WHO DOESN'T BELIEVE IT NEEDS TO DO SOME RESEARCH AND MEET A LOBBYIST.
CyrilCrodius---ABSOLUTELY. THAT IS HOW IT WORKS IN AMERICA. ANYONE WHO DOESN'T BELIEVE IT NEEDS TO DO SOME RESEARCH AND MEET A LOBBYIST.