Thank You

[WinAce]

Reminds me of <a target=new class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.artic.edu/~dmerri/god/">this sick but oh-so-fitting Onion article</a>:
<blockquote>Quote<br><hr><b>God Answers Prayer of Paralyzed Little Boy</b>
<i>"No," Says God</i>

Asked for comment, God said: "This kind-hearted child's simple prayer hath moved Me. Never before have I seen such faith. His trusting soul, so full of innocent devotion to Me, hath offered seventy times seven prayers asking, 'God? Can I please walk again?' It was indeed right and fitting that I, in My infinite wisdom, should share with him the One True Answer to this long-repeated question put before Me."

"My will be done," God added.

Witnesses to the miracle said Timmy begged God for several minutes to change His mind and heal his shattered vertebrae, but the Lord stood firm.<hr></blockquote>

<img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0">

 

[anonymous]

Here's an idea for the original poster & anyone else that feels depressed/negative. Ever thought of doing something for someone else??
That always helps me when I'm feeling down; I try to do a random act of kindness for someone else & it does brighten my day. A "thinking of you" card, a phone call, an anonymous note or monetary gift to someone going through a hard time, a compliment or smile to someone on the street/elevator/groc store that you don't even know--heck I even tell the gals at McDonald's that I like their nail polish or hair as I'm going through the drive thru. You never know, that may be just what they needed & it helps you feel good inside too. I guarantee it--just try it!<img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0"><img src="i/expressions/present.gif" border="0">

 

[reillybug]

Kasey,
God works in mysterious ways. For me, it is hard to understand why God would give anyone this disease, or any other disease in which people suffer from each and every day. I think nearly everyone of faith questions their beliefs and how good God really is when faced with something like this.
I have always been taught that God has a plan, and although we don't always understand it, somehow it is there. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif" border="0">
Maybe your sisters passing was part of the plan He has for you, or maybe for her daughter. Maybe it has made you a stronger person, or maybe it has put life into a different perspective. I am not by any means saying she deserved to live a short life. I don't know why he chooses one person over another for a transplant. Again, He works in mysterious ways. <img src="i/expressions/brokenheart.gif" border="0">
We all have our different beliefs. What you choose to believe is your own choice. Hopefully one day you will find the answers to your questions. Good luck.

 

[anonymous]

Cindy,

Thanks for replying. In many ways I too believe there is an unknown plan for all of us. I think what struck a chord with me in Margaret's post was her statement about God making sure she had many more years. I don't understand the thinking a person may have that they were chosen over others. For example, I don't think God made sure I had many more years of life than my sister. Many of my questions are coming from grief and I these days I am very interested in the beliefs of others.

 

[WinAce]

I submit that NO ONE would buy this "mysterious reasons" argument if it was used to defend anyone except God from self-evidently irrational behavior. That's what this claimed intervention in people's medical care, the way God allegedly does it, comes down to -- divine irrationality. It obeys no discernible pattern, works towards no identifiable goals, benefits no consistent group, and omits helping those who, arguably, deserve it the most.

WITHOUT the <i>a priori</i> assumption that God is good and infallible, what does the seemingly arbitrary nature of how illness affects people suggest? I would argue it's <i>undeniably</i> "No god exists," "A god exists who doesn't care about humanity," or "God is crazy." For every person you can point to who fervently believes God helped, 10 others believed equally well that God <i>would</i> help--and died in agony anyway. For every person allegedly made stronger by crippling illness, not only is there another who received such insight <i>without</i> having to suffer, but there are 5 whose illness had no major positive effect on their lives, and served only to detract from it. CF and other illnesses have <i>no</i> redeeming qualities that would make even a <i>human</i> consider intentionally creating them, much less an omnipotence that could implement those hypothetical "greater goods" in a wide variety of other, comparatively painless ways.

That grown adults can seriously entertain the thought an omnipotent God would need to resort to striking down someone's siblings with horrifying illness, in order to teach them a lesson about life or some such bizarre nonsense, is downright intellectually insulting. That's the problem, in a nutshell. People are <i>taught</i> that "God has a plan," merely because their ancestors believed it, and then prefer accepting ad hoc non-explanations like the above to salvage that belief and shield it from questioning, rather than acknowledging that the ancients could have been mistaken.

God doesn't choose one person over another for a transplant. Assuming a benevolent God, such beliefs--the equivalent of him being racist, sexist, or otherwise capriciously arbitrary--are nonsense of the highest order. And assuming an evil, capricious one, why call such an entity "God" in the first place?

</rant>

 

[Mockingbird]

Win Ace, shut up. You keep trying to make this about God and it's not. Go start your own thread if you want to debate. Or better yet, go to a seperate forum that was set up for that kind of thing. And before anyone jumps down my throat, I'm not telling Ace to leave permanently, just find a better place to preach.

To the original poster, I wasn't telling you that puppies would make you happy, I was telling you to find something of your own. Zoloft, even. But I can tell you from experience that you won't find anything unless you have an open heart and an open mind. You have to actually want to be happy, and I can tell from your writing that you don't. You refuse to move away from your misery and sadness, because you think that's the only place for you. At least that's where i was at; and anything that came around that made me happy, I pushed it away as fast as i could. I used to think people deserted me because I was sick, but looking back I can see they left because I locked them out. And I used to hear stories of other people's depression, and i'd think that I alone was different from all of them because for some cosmic reason I was special, which made my depression necessary for my specific fate in life. Something like that, anyway, it was more convincing at the time.

There's one last thing I want to say. I believe the past should be used for only two things; to cherish happy memories, and to learn from mistakes. You said yourself about not enjoying things while you were healthy. When you're dead and you look back on today, will you have the same regret?

 

[senatorgraham]

To the original poster: I am sorry to read that you seem to have fallen so deep into dispair. Sometimes, when people feel this way they need someone to talk to. I am happy to extend my ear if you need it. Feel free to e-mail me at senatorgraham@yahoo.com if you need to talk. I will keep you in my prayers.

Sincerely,

"Senatorgraham"

"My friends are my estate. Forgive me the avarice of hoarding them."-Emily Dickinson

 

[WinAce]

Mockingbird,

Insofar as the original topic is <i>inherently linked</i> with theistic belief, you'll find very few on this board more appropriate for such a debate. Furthermore, if you dislike "preaching," I suggest you start showing it, perhaps by challenging statements to the effect of <i>"the creator of the universe personally made sure I received a transplant, letting <b>others</b> fall ill and die for a conveniently inscrutable reason, maybe to teach their loved ones a lesson."</i> Or, in the immortal words of AngryRedFox, <i>"thank you, my invisible friend, for mucking up my lungs and having someone else killed to give me theirs."</i> Otherwise, if you selectively get offended only by those statements <i>debunking</i> ludicrous views, you're a hypocrite. In short, my friend, if anyone's scandishake-hole needs to be shut, its yours.

Carry on. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif" border="0">

 

[Starfall99]

AND yet another thread starts winding its way towards being locked............

 

[senatorgraham]

Dear WinAce,

I will not pretend to speak for Mockingbird, I have read his posts and seen his web page and am confident he can speak for himself. And while I do not agree with your view point on God I will respect it. However, I do take issue with your statement "debunking ludicrous views" which implies that those of us who believe in God have "ludicrous" views. I respectfully submit to you that just because someone has a different belief system than you does not make it "ludicrous" nor does it become devalued merely because it is not your belief.

I have read your posts and seen your page at save-allan.org so I know you are an intelligent, articulate young man. So, please take care to reflect that when responding to posts regarding religion. For many people this is a deeply felt issue. They draw inspiration and guidance from their religion. It is a source of strength in good times and bad. If you do not share their beliefs that is your perogative and it should be respected but please do not be disrespectful to those of us who do not agree with you.

Finally, I do have some questions about your efforts to get your transplant so please feel free to contact me. I might have some suggestions for you.

You are welcome to respond to this post or e-mail me directly at senatorgraham@yahoo.com

Sincerely,

"Senatorgraham"

"My friends are my estate. Forgive me the avarice of hoarding them."-Emily Dickinson

 

[anonymous]

I cannot believe the same religious crap keeps popping up on this forum. Why the hell don't the moderators start a religious section too. I reckon those who constantly debate this issue to boredom get a kick out of annoying people. They have nothing else in their poor, unfullfilled lives. What losers!!!! How pathetic that the original loser had to use the title 'thank you' to get the attention he sooo doesn't deserve.

 

[anonymous]

I enjoy Win Ace's responses, keep them coming. The original post was a message to God, therefore it was religion - related. If people are not interested in discussing religion, skip this post. I for one enjoy reading and learning about different beliefs, what a sad world it would be if it was a cookie- cutter world ! Open you minds, respectfully digest other points of view !

 

[anonymous]

Whenever there is a religious topic, especially one that begins by bashing God/Christianity, we can always count of Winace to get the "most posts in the thread" award. Where should we send your sticker Allan?

Also, is it interesting to notice that he rarely shows up elsewhere, especially where people are asking for support/help...

 

[Mockingbird]

<blockquote>Quote<br><hr><i>Originally posted by: <b>WinAce</b></i><br>Mockingbird,



Insofar as the original topic is <i>inherently linked</i> with theistic belief, you'll find very few on this board more appropriate for such a debate. Furthermore, if you dislike "preaching," I suggest you start showing it, perhaps by challenging statements to the effect of <i>"the creator of the universe personally made sure I received a transplant, letting <b>others</b> fall ill and die for a conveniently inscrutable reason, maybe to teach their loved ones a lesson."</i> Or, in the immortal words of AngryRedFox, <i>"thank you, my invisible friend, for mucking up my lungs and having someone else killed to give me theirs."</i> Otherwise, if you selectively get offended only by those statements <i>debunking</i> ludicrous views, you're a hypocrite. In short, my friend, if anyone's scandishake-hole needs to be shut, its yours.

Carry on. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif" border="0"><hr></blockquote>

Get a clue. I never said i was offended by you, i just told you to go away. This thread is about someone feeling down. But just because he mentioned God, you think that gives you permission to come in and throw your views around. So like I said before, go start your own thread, because this one has something more important going on besides your little war with God. In fact, I'll start one for you, but will you please let this one get back on topic? I'd really like to talk to the original poster some more.

 

[miesl]

<blockquote>Quote<br><hr>This thread is about someone feeling down.<hr></blockquote>
Actually - it looks like someone feeling down and blaming god for their problem.

In all honesty - giving this person the atheist point of view could be helpful. When you blame 'god' and are all "woe is me, god hates me, and I can't do anything about it" there's no way out. You don't see yourself as the root of the problem. It's god's fault. Shame on god for blah blah blah blah blah.

Whereas, atheistically... There is no god. CF is the result of a bad spin on the wheel of genetics. Huh, that sucks - just have to deal with it. However, within limits (since you can't change your lungs), you control your life and what goes on in it. You have no choice but to partially blame yourself for the situation. Therefore, you CAN change. You have the power to make a difference in your life.

Now, tell me again why atheism shouldn't be mentioned here, since theism seems to be doing the OP a heck of a lot of good.

 

[SeasonsOfLove]

Whether or not you believe in God, I feel that anyone who sounds this depressed deserves compassion, not scorn.

 

[DietRootBeer]

I agree Seasonsoflove.

 

[Mockingbird]

<blockquote>Quote<br><hr><i>Originally posted by: <b>Anonymous</b></i><br>Im the original poster again. To mockingbird I'm not angry at you or anything, but everyone has his own view of happiness. If for you, getting a puppy would make you happy then this is great. However, frankly saying it means nothing to me whether I get a puppy, a flower, or watch the sunset. I hope you live long and dont witness a time when your friends dump you just because you cant keep up with them, when your partner walks away because she cant handle cystic fibrosis, when there is nothing to fight for or no one to live for. I admit that I made a mess of my life when I was "healthy" and didnt acheive things I would have admired by now. So all I'm left with now is regret, and dont tell me to make up because I wish I could. I wish I can have the chance and enjoy a beautiful sunset without an O2 machine and coughing episodes. <font color=white style="background-color: 3E3E3E;">Its a pity its all gone and I can do nothing, but dont expect me at anytime to blame myself because I dont control my fate.</font ft> Get my pfts for 50% or something and see what will I make out of my life. I dont hate life on the contrary, I see it as very beautiful but not for all people. Man is predestined because God chose it this way. Im not saying that everyone with cystic fibrosis shall lead a miserable life, but not everyone with it can have the most out of life. CF shaped the character of many and made some people understand life better, but for me cystic fibrosis would remain a disease which stole my life, denied me many moments, broke my dreams, and left me with no acheivements. So when I meet God I have one word for him " Why?".<hr></blockquote>


No, you shouldn't blame yourself for your own fate. If I ever said that... which I think I did, or at least implied it... anyway, I was wrong. =-) And now I'm gonna say something that sounds kind of stupid, but bear with me. =-) You shouldn't blame yourself for your own past. You said you made a mess of your life, but at the time is that what you were trying to do? I'm gonna go out on a limb and say no. =-) Forget about the present for a minute and just go back to the past, when you had friends, and a um... girlfriend or wife, whichever it was. There were happy times, weren't there? That is what I am talking about! Not accomplishing anything, but having something to look back on and smile about. Maybe even laugh out loud. Heh, If I measured my life by what I've accomplished I'd be dissapointed, too. =-)

Whenever I hear about a friend from high school, and how well their doing, It always depresses me. Poeple who are starting their lives, becoming successful, while I have a one-day a week job and a rather large stack of unpaid medical bills. That kind of comparison would depress anybody. But what the hell? Just this morning when I was out in the front yard I tapped a mushroom with my foot and sang "Hello little mushroom, how are you?" ................... Where was I going with this? I just got distracted and now i can't remember. Okay, well it's not coming back to me, but there was a point in there somewhere.

Anyway, please keep posting. I changed my mind about the slap in the face thing. I just really want you to see the good in your own life. It's in there, I can sense it, something really strong... Heh, i bet the people around you can see it even better and you don't even know it. (No, I'm not pretending to be psychic. I can sense it in your last post, that's all. =-)