The Big3 and the truth!

[kayleesgrandma]

Here's another article that shows how the "transplants"--(the foreign car companies)--or the "other Detroit", as it is called--"operate under conditions imposed by the free market. Detroit lives on Fantasy Island."

America's Other Auto Industry
(There is such a thing as a profitable car maker in this country.)

Consider labor costs. Take-home wages at the U.S. car makers average $28.42 an hour, according to the Center for Automotive Research. That's on par with $26 at Toyota, $24 at Honda and $21 at Hyundai. But include benefits, and the picture changes. Hourly labor costs are $44.20 on average for the non-Detroit producers, in line with most manufacturing jobs, but are $73.21 for Detroit.

This $29 cost gap reflects the way Big Three management and unions have conspired to make themselves uncompetitive -- increasingly so as their market share has collapsed (see the nearby chart). Over the decades the United Auto Workers won pension and health-care benefits far more generous than in almost any other American industry. As a result, for every UAW member working at a U.S. car maker today, three retirees collect benefits; at GM, the ratio is 4.6 to one.
<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122809320261867867.html
">http://online.wsj.com/article/...2809320261867867.html
</a>

 

[kayleesgrandma]

Here's another article that shows how the "transplants"--(the foreign car companies)--or the "other Detroit", as it is called--"operate under conditions imposed by the free market. Detroit lives on Fantasy Island."

America's Other Auto Industry
(There is such a thing as a profitable car maker in this country.)

Consider labor costs. Take-home wages at the U.S. car makers average $28.42 an hour, according to the Center for Automotive Research. That's on par with $26 at Toyota, $24 at Honda and $21 at Hyundai. But include benefits, and the picture changes. Hourly labor costs are $44.20 on average for the non-Detroit producers, in line with most manufacturing jobs, but are $73.21 for Detroit.

This $29 cost gap reflects the way Big Three management and unions have conspired to make themselves uncompetitive -- increasingly so as their market share has collapsed (see the nearby chart). Over the decades the United Auto Workers won pension and health-care benefits far more generous than in almost any other American industry. As a result, for every UAW member working at a U.S. car maker today, three retirees collect benefits; at GM, the ratio is 4.6 to one.
<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122809320261867867.html
">http://online.wsj.com/article/...2809320261867867.html
</a>

 

[kayleesgrandma]

Here's another article that shows how the "transplants"--(the foreign car companies)--or the "other Detroit", as it is called--"operate under conditions imposed by the free market. Detroit lives on Fantasy Island."

America's Other Auto Industry
(There is such a thing as a profitable car maker in this country.)

Consider labor costs. Take-home wages at the U.S. car makers average $28.42 an hour, according to the Center for Automotive Research. That's on par with $26 at Toyota, $24 at Honda and $21 at Hyundai. But include benefits, and the picture changes. Hourly labor costs are $44.20 on average for the non-Detroit producers, in line with most manufacturing jobs, but are $73.21 for Detroit.

This $29 cost gap reflects the way Big Three management and unions have conspired to make themselves uncompetitive -- increasingly so as their market share has collapsed (see the nearby chart). Over the decades the United Auto Workers won pension and health-care benefits far more generous than in almost any other American industry. As a result, for every UAW member working at a U.S. car maker today, three retirees collect benefits; at GM, the ratio is 4.6 to one.
<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122809320261867867.html
">http://online.wsj.com/article/...2809320261867867.html
</a>

 

[kayleesgrandma]

Here's another article that shows how the "transplants"--(the foreign car companies)--or the "other Detroit", as it is called--"operate under conditions imposed by the free market. Detroit lives on Fantasy Island."

America's Other Auto Industry
(There is such a thing as a profitable car maker in this country.)

Consider labor costs. Take-home wages at the U.S. car makers average $28.42 an hour, according to the Center for Automotive Research. That's on par with $26 at Toyota, $24 at Honda and $21 at Hyundai. But include benefits, and the picture changes. Hourly labor costs are $44.20 on average for the non-Detroit producers, in line with most manufacturing jobs, but are $73.21 for Detroit.

This $29 cost gap reflects the way Big Three management and unions have conspired to make themselves uncompetitive -- increasingly so as their market share has collapsed (see the nearby chart). Over the decades the United Auto Workers won pension and health-care benefits far more generous than in almost any other American industry. As a result, for every UAW member working at a U.S. car maker today, three retirees collect benefits; at GM, the ratio is 4.6 to one.
<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122809320261867867.html
">http://online.wsj.com/article/...2809320261867867.html
</a>

 

[kayleesgrandma]

Here's another article that shows how the "transplants"--(the foreign car companies)--or the "other Detroit", as it is called--"operate under conditions imposed by the free market. Detroit lives on Fantasy Island."
<br />
<br />America's Other Auto Industry
<br />(There is such a thing as a profitable car maker in this country.)
<br />
<br />Consider labor costs. Take-home wages at the U.S. car makers average $28.42 an hour, according to the Center for Automotive Research. That's on par with $26 at Toyota, $24 at Honda and $21 at Hyundai. But include benefits, and the picture changes. Hourly labor costs are $44.20 on average for the non-Detroit producers, in line with most manufacturing jobs, but are $73.21 for Detroit.
<br />
<br />This $29 cost gap reflects the way Big Three management and unions have conspired to make themselves uncompetitive -- increasingly so as their market share has collapsed (see the nearby chart). Over the decades the United Auto Workers won pension and health-care benefits far more generous than in almost any other American industry. As a result, for every UAW member working at a U.S. car maker today, three retirees collect benefits; at GM, the ratio is 4.6 to one.
<br /><a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122809320261867867.html
">http://online.wsj.com/article/...2809320261867867.html
</a><br />
<br />

 

[kayleesgrandma]

And for those of you worried about healthcare...

How much should the uninsured be taxed on behalf of the UAW?

"Now, health care is not the only reason Detroit is in trouble. But you have rightly noted that it's a big contributor. GM, for example, provides health benefits for a million people today -- only a fraction of them actual workers. Three years ago, you told GM shareholders that these health-care expenses added $1,500 to the cost of every GM vehicle. Which explains the old joke that GM is no longer a car company that provides health benefits, but a health-care company that happens to make cars...<b>it will be interesting to review the fine print of any bailout to see how much American workers who have no health-care coverage at all will be taxed to fulfill the generous promises made to the UAW...</b>
<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122818153973071061.html
">http://online.wsj.com/article/...2818153973071061.html
</a>

 

[kayleesgrandma]

And for those of you worried about healthcare...

How much should the uninsured be taxed on behalf of the UAW?

"Now, health care is not the only reason Detroit is in trouble. But you have rightly noted that it's a big contributor. GM, for example, provides health benefits for a million people today -- only a fraction of them actual workers. Three years ago, you told GM shareholders that these health-care expenses added $1,500 to the cost of every GM vehicle. Which explains the old joke that GM is no longer a car company that provides health benefits, but a health-care company that happens to make cars...<b>it will be interesting to review the fine print of any bailout to see how much American workers who have no health-care coverage at all will be taxed to fulfill the generous promises made to the UAW...</b>
<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122818153973071061.html
">http://online.wsj.com/article/...2818153973071061.html
</a>

 

[kayleesgrandma]

And for those of you worried about healthcare...

How much should the uninsured be taxed on behalf of the UAW?

"Now, health care is not the only reason Detroit is in trouble. But you have rightly noted that it's a big contributor. GM, for example, provides health benefits for a million people today -- only a fraction of them actual workers. Three years ago, you told GM shareholders that these health-care expenses added $1,500 to the cost of every GM vehicle. Which explains the old joke that GM is no longer a car company that provides health benefits, but a health-care company that happens to make cars...<b>it will be interesting to review the fine print of any bailout to see how much American workers who have no health-care coverage at all will be taxed to fulfill the generous promises made to the UAW...</b>
<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122818153973071061.html
">http://online.wsj.com/article/...2818153973071061.html
</a>

 

[kayleesgrandma]

And for those of you worried about healthcare...

How much should the uninsured be taxed on behalf of the UAW?

"Now, health care is not the only reason Detroit is in trouble. But you have rightly noted that it's a big contributor. GM, for example, provides health benefits for a million people today -- only a fraction of them actual workers. Three years ago, you told GM shareholders that these health-care expenses added $1,500 to the cost of every GM vehicle. Which explains the old joke that GM is no longer a car company that provides health benefits, but a health-care company that happens to make cars...<b>it will be interesting to review the fine print of any bailout to see how much American workers who have no health-care coverage at all will be taxed to fulfill the generous promises made to the UAW...</b>
<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122818153973071061.html
">http://online.wsj.com/article/...2818153973071061.html
</a>

 

[kayleesgrandma]

And for those of you worried about healthcare...
<br />
<br />How much should the uninsured be taxed on behalf of the UAW?
<br />
<br />"Now, health care is not the only reason Detroit is in trouble. But you have rightly noted that it's a big contributor. GM, for example, provides health benefits for a million people today -- only a fraction of them actual workers. Three years ago, you told GM shareholders that these health-care expenses added $1,500 to the cost of every GM vehicle. Which explains the old joke that GM is no longer a car company that provides health benefits, but a health-care company that happens to make cars...<b>it will be interesting to review the fine print of any bailout to see how much American workers who have no health-care coverage at all will be taxed to fulfill the generous promises made to the UAW...</b>
<br /><a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122818153973071061.html
">http://online.wsj.com/article/...2818153973071061.html
</a><br />

 

[65rosessamurai]

hmm..very interesting...so the UAW has a lot to do with the downfall of the big 3?

In order to pay the Union, they have to increase the auto price, which probably puts about 30% of the cost as the actual cost of materials, the rest is overhead...

Because of the Union costs, there's little room for the big 3 to work on research for "alternative fuels" cause most of the money goes towards the labor costs, and very little is even available for "retooling"?

I certainly wouldn't wanna see my taxes used on bailing out a company that had a long-term problem that could've and should've been solved long ago when the Japanese auto companies entered the market, and not see anything in return, especially if they just go back as "business as usual"!

I recently read that both the big 3 and the unions have to restructure in order to receive any governmental financial support...and like what Lee Iaccoca (sp?) did, I think they should take it out as a loan and pay it back!

If not, I'm changing my name to Chrysler, I'm going down to Washington D.C.! And when they pass the million grand out, I'll be standing with my hand out! (lyric from a folk song!)

 

[65rosessamurai]

hmm..very interesting...so the UAW has a lot to do with the downfall of the big 3?

In order to pay the Union, they have to increase the auto price, which probably puts about 30% of the cost as the actual cost of materials, the rest is overhead...

Because of the Union costs, there's little room for the big 3 to work on research for "alternative fuels" cause most of the money goes towards the labor costs, and very little is even available for "retooling"?

I certainly wouldn't wanna see my taxes used on bailing out a company that had a long-term problem that could've and should've been solved long ago when the Japanese auto companies entered the market, and not see anything in return, especially if they just go back as "business as usual"!

I recently read that both the big 3 and the unions have to restructure in order to receive any governmental financial support...and like what Lee Iaccoca (sp?) did, I think they should take it out as a loan and pay it back!

If not, I'm changing my name to Chrysler, I'm going down to Washington D.C.! And when they pass the million grand out, I'll be standing with my hand out! (lyric from a folk song!)

 

[65rosessamurai]

hmm..very interesting...so the UAW has a lot to do with the downfall of the big 3?

In order to pay the Union, they have to increase the auto price, which probably puts about 30% of the cost as the actual cost of materials, the rest is overhead...

Because of the Union costs, there's little room for the big 3 to work on research for "alternative fuels" cause most of the money goes towards the labor costs, and very little is even available for "retooling"?

I certainly wouldn't wanna see my taxes used on bailing out a company that had a long-term problem that could've and should've been solved long ago when the Japanese auto companies entered the market, and not see anything in return, especially if they just go back as "business as usual"!

I recently read that both the big 3 and the unions have to restructure in order to receive any governmental financial support...and like what Lee Iaccoca (sp?) did, I think they should take it out as a loan and pay it back!

If not, I'm changing my name to Chrysler, I'm going down to Washington D.C.! And when they pass the million grand out, I'll be standing with my hand out! (lyric from a folk song!)

 

[65rosessamurai]

hmm..very interesting...so the UAW has a lot to do with the downfall of the big 3?

In order to pay the Union, they have to increase the auto price, which probably puts about 30% of the cost as the actual cost of materials, the rest is overhead...

Because of the Union costs, there's little room for the big 3 to work on research for "alternative fuels" cause most of the money goes towards the labor costs, and very little is even available for "retooling"?

I certainly wouldn't wanna see my taxes used on bailing out a company that had a long-term problem that could've and should've been solved long ago when the Japanese auto companies entered the market, and not see anything in return, especially if they just go back as "business as usual"!

I recently read that both the big 3 and the unions have to restructure in order to receive any governmental financial support...and like what Lee Iaccoca (sp?) did, I think they should take it out as a loan and pay it back!

If not, I'm changing my name to Chrysler, I'm going down to Washington D.C.! And when they pass the million grand out, I'll be standing with my hand out! (lyric from a folk song!)

 

[65rosessamurai]

hmm..very interesting...so the UAW has a lot to do with the downfall of the big 3?
<br />
<br />In order to pay the Union, they have to increase the auto price, which probably puts about 30% of the cost as the actual cost of materials, the rest is overhead...
<br />
<br />Because of the Union costs, there's little room for the big 3 to work on research for "alternative fuels" cause most of the money goes towards the labor costs, and very little is even available for "retooling"?
<br />
<br />I certainly wouldn't wanna see my taxes used on bailing out a company that had a long-term problem that could've and should've been solved long ago when the Japanese auto companies entered the market, and not see anything in return, especially if they just go back as "business as usual"!
<br />
<br />I recently read that both the big 3 and the unions have to restructure in order to receive any governmental financial support...and like what Lee Iaccoca (sp?) did, I think they should take it out as a loan and pay it back!
<br />
<br />If not, I'm changing my name to Chrysler, I'm going down to Washington D.C.! And when they pass the million grand out, I'll be standing with my hand out! (lyric from a folk song!)

 

[TestifyToLove]

Surprised Tom isn't responsing, probably too busy with M being sick. The UAW is not only caught up in why the American car companies are failing is the THE REASON they are failing. And, the UAW is not interested in saving those companies. Its focus is on saving itself. Even as its trying to campaign for a bail-out that would guarantee more funds for itself, its also working the other end of the beast by trying to convince Congress to change the law so they can FORCE their way into the foriegn companies where they can't get their foot in the door BECAUSE THE WORKERS DON'T WANT THEM.

The UAW has negotiated the residual and lifetime burden on the American companies so high that its now impossible for those companies to stay in business and continue to meet that obligation. And, unlike other industries, even in the face of the destroying the industry or making concessions, the UAW will not make concessions. UAW is SOO certain that Congress will not let the the Big 3 fall and therefore they can continue to bask in their cash cow and will be fine.

When the airliners faced either union concessions or fold, their unions made concessions, HUGE concessions. They did whatever was necessary to keep the companies open and everyone having JOBS. The UAW will not do so, not even in the threat of job losses for all. Because, the UAW is not truly concerned about those jobs. It not concerned about the welfare of its membership. Its concerned in saving itself. Thus, why they are trying to change the law so they can force infiltration in the foriegn companies regardless of whether those employees want them or not. UAW knows its killed the Big 3. Getting the bail-out and keeping those companies afloat is merely a stop gap measure while they try to set their sides on a far more profitable market and force the successful foriegn makers with fully happy and well compensated employees to bow to their authority.

Unions had a purpose when they were formed. Many still serve a terrific purpose. The UAW is NOT one of those unions. Its a burdensome, overgrown entity with a power hungry and greedy President. And, its so obvious and bad that even the American workers are opting OUT of membership because they are starting to realize that the UAW and its President do not have them and their future as its priority in the least.

 

[TestifyToLove]

Surprised Tom isn't responsing, probably too busy with M being sick. The UAW is not only caught up in why the American car companies are failing is the THE REASON they are failing. And, the UAW is not interested in saving those companies. Its focus is on saving itself. Even as its trying to campaign for a bail-out that would guarantee more funds for itself, its also working the other end of the beast by trying to convince Congress to change the law so they can FORCE their way into the foriegn companies where they can't get their foot in the door BECAUSE THE WORKERS DON'T WANT THEM.

The UAW has negotiated the residual and lifetime burden on the American companies so high that its now impossible for those companies to stay in business and continue to meet that obligation. And, unlike other industries, even in the face of the destroying the industry or making concessions, the UAW will not make concessions. UAW is SOO certain that Congress will not let the the Big 3 fall and therefore they can continue to bask in their cash cow and will be fine.

When the airliners faced either union concessions or fold, their unions made concessions, HUGE concessions. They did whatever was necessary to keep the companies open and everyone having JOBS. The UAW will not do so, not even in the threat of job losses for all. Because, the UAW is not truly concerned about those jobs. It not concerned about the welfare of its membership. Its concerned in saving itself. Thus, why they are trying to change the law so they can force infiltration in the foriegn companies regardless of whether those employees want them or not. UAW knows its killed the Big 3. Getting the bail-out and keeping those companies afloat is merely a stop gap measure while they try to set their sides on a far more profitable market and force the successful foriegn makers with fully happy and well compensated employees to bow to their authority.

Unions had a purpose when they were formed. Many still serve a terrific purpose. The UAW is NOT one of those unions. Its a burdensome, overgrown entity with a power hungry and greedy President. And, its so obvious and bad that even the American workers are opting OUT of membership because they are starting to realize that the UAW and its President do not have them and their future as its priority in the least.

 

[TestifyToLove]

Surprised Tom isn't responsing, probably too busy with M being sick. The UAW is not only caught up in why the American car companies are failing is the THE REASON they are failing. And, the UAW is not interested in saving those companies. Its focus is on saving itself. Even as its trying to campaign for a bail-out that would guarantee more funds for itself, its also working the other end of the beast by trying to convince Congress to change the law so they can FORCE their way into the foriegn companies where they can't get their foot in the door BECAUSE THE WORKERS DON'T WANT THEM.

The UAW has negotiated the residual and lifetime burden on the American companies so high that its now impossible for those companies to stay in business and continue to meet that obligation. And, unlike other industries, even in the face of the destroying the industry or making concessions, the UAW will not make concessions. UAW is SOO certain that Congress will not let the the Big 3 fall and therefore they can continue to bask in their cash cow and will be fine.

When the airliners faced either union concessions or fold, their unions made concessions, HUGE concessions. They did whatever was necessary to keep the companies open and everyone having JOBS. The UAW will not do so, not even in the threat of job losses for all. Because, the UAW is not truly concerned about those jobs. It not concerned about the welfare of its membership. Its concerned in saving itself. Thus, why they are trying to change the law so they can force infiltration in the foriegn companies regardless of whether those employees want them or not. UAW knows its killed the Big 3. Getting the bail-out and keeping those companies afloat is merely a stop gap measure while they try to set their sides on a far more profitable market and force the successful foriegn makers with fully happy and well compensated employees to bow to their authority.

Unions had a purpose when they were formed. Many still serve a terrific purpose. The UAW is NOT one of those unions. Its a burdensome, overgrown entity with a power hungry and greedy President. And, its so obvious and bad that even the American workers are opting OUT of membership because they are starting to realize that the UAW and its President do not have them and their future as its priority in the least.

 

[TestifyToLove]

Surprised Tom isn't responsing, probably too busy with M being sick. The UAW is not only caught up in why the American car companies are failing is the THE REASON they are failing. And, the UAW is not interested in saving those companies. Its focus is on saving itself. Even as its trying to campaign for a bail-out that would guarantee more funds for itself, its also working the other end of the beast by trying to convince Congress to change the law so they can FORCE their way into the foriegn companies where they can't get their foot in the door BECAUSE THE WORKERS DON'T WANT THEM.

The UAW has negotiated the residual and lifetime burden on the American companies so high that its now impossible for those companies to stay in business and continue to meet that obligation. And, unlike other industries, even in the face of the destroying the industry or making concessions, the UAW will not make concessions. UAW is SOO certain that Congress will not let the the Big 3 fall and therefore they can continue to bask in their cash cow and will be fine.

When the airliners faced either union concessions or fold, their unions made concessions, HUGE concessions. They did whatever was necessary to keep the companies open and everyone having JOBS. The UAW will not do so, not even in the threat of job losses for all. Because, the UAW is not truly concerned about those jobs. It not concerned about the welfare of its membership. Its concerned in saving itself. Thus, why they are trying to change the law so they can force infiltration in the foriegn companies regardless of whether those employees want them or not. UAW knows its killed the Big 3. Getting the bail-out and keeping those companies afloat is merely a stop gap measure while they try to set their sides on a far more profitable market and force the successful foriegn makers with fully happy and well compensated employees to bow to their authority.

Unions had a purpose when they were formed. Many still serve a terrific purpose. The UAW is NOT one of those unions. Its a burdensome, overgrown entity with a power hungry and greedy President. And, its so obvious and bad that even the American workers are opting OUT of membership because they are starting to realize that the UAW and its President do not have them and their future as its priority in the least.

 

[TestifyToLove]

Surprised Tom isn't responsing, probably too busy with M being sick. The UAW is not only caught up in why the American car companies are failing is the THE REASON they are failing. And, the UAW is not interested in saving those companies. Its focus is on saving itself. Even as its trying to campaign for a bail-out that would guarantee more funds for itself, its also working the other end of the beast by trying to convince Congress to change the law so they can FORCE their way into the foriegn companies where they can't get their foot in the door BECAUSE THE WORKERS DON'T WANT THEM.
<br />
<br />The UAW has negotiated the residual and lifetime burden on the American companies so high that its now impossible for those companies to stay in business and continue to meet that obligation. And, unlike other industries, even in the face of the destroying the industry or making concessions, the UAW will not make concessions. UAW is SOO certain that Congress will not let the the Big 3 fall and therefore they can continue to bask in their cash cow and will be fine.
<br />
<br />When the airliners faced either union concessions or fold, their unions made concessions, HUGE concessions. They did whatever was necessary to keep the companies open and everyone having JOBS. The UAW will not do so, not even in the threat of job losses for all. Because, the UAW is not truly concerned about those jobs. It not concerned about the welfare of its membership. Its concerned in saving itself. Thus, why they are trying to change the law so they can force infiltration in the foriegn companies regardless of whether those employees want them or not. UAW knows its killed the Big 3. Getting the bail-out and keeping those companies afloat is merely a stop gap measure while they try to set their sides on a far more profitable market and force the successful foriegn makers with fully happy and well compensated employees to bow to their authority.
<br />
<br />Unions had a purpose when they were formed. Many still serve a terrific purpose. The UAW is NOT one of those unions. Its a burdensome, overgrown entity with a power hungry and greedy President. And, its so obvious and bad that even the American workers are opting OUT of membership because they are starting to realize that the UAW and its President do not have them and their future as its priority in the least.