The " cure " Selenium

[Rickengelage]

Hello people,

I read some odd articals on the internet about a doctor called Dr.Joel D. Wallach.
He said to have discovered the cause cured and prevention cystic fibrosis in 1978.
He says that cystic fibrosis more caused by deficiency of selenium.
He said to have proven this, and the experts agreed back then.
He said he tested it on primates.
And he cured them, then they fired him. Because they said it wasnt possible what he did cuz its a genetic desease.
And some say he actually got fired cuz they cant make money from giving selenium to people.

He says he can reverse cf with supplementation of selenium.

Personally, I think the story is kinda nuts, obviously cf is a genetic desease.
And to cure it with selenium?
Im not so sure.

What do u know about selenium? Have u been using it ever?

Just like u probably also dont believe selenium will cure us, I dont either.
But It may have benefits taking selenium.
Im gonna buy some tomorrow and see it for myself.
It has been proven fact though that people with cf do have a deficiency in selenium.

Let me know what u think of this? And if you have ever used selenium before!

Best to all!

Rick.

 

[TexasTapdog]

I'll go with the "this story is kinda nuts" concept and say that I have no experience in this area <-- not a docter. The story peaked my interest on what Selenium is so I looked up some info, minimal at best.
Also I say don't buy another pill if it can be had in your food. With that being said check out the following quote and table from the National Institue of Health site and go NUTS! Brazil nuts that is!

"For example, according to the U.S. Department of Agriculture Food Composition Database, Brazil nuts have 544 mcg selenium/ounce, but values from other analyses vary widely [10-12]."

Age	Male	Female	Pregnancy	Lactation
Birth to 6 months	15 mcg*	15 mcg*
7–12 months	20 mcg*	20 mcg*
1–3 years	20 mcg	20 mcg
4–8 years	30 mcg	30 mcg
9–13 years	40 mcg	40 mcg
14–18 years	55 mcg	55 mcg	60 mcg	70 mcg
19–50 years	55 mcg	55 mcg	60 mcg	70 mcg
51+ years	55 mcg	55 mcg

Table 1: Recommended Dietary Allowances (RDAs) for Selenium [ 6 ]

*http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Selenium-HealthProfessional/

 

[Beth F.]

Your initial reaction of "this story is kind of nuts" is correct- it is nuts. In general, if someone with CF has a deficiency in selenium it would be due to malabsorption (and I doubt it would be the only thing you would be deficient in). CF is not caused by a deficiency in selenium or any other vitamin or mineral, and cannot be cured by simply taking supplements. It would be easy for you to get your various levels checked with your doctor to see if you are deficient in anything, and what they would recommend you do to increase your levels. And it is NOT proven that CF patients are naturally deficient in selenium. Now, it is a good idea to make sure that you are getting as many healthy vitamins and minerals as you should, and your diet should be as healthy as it can be (while maintaining your weight, etc...). Lots of fruits and veggies in addition to healthy nuts, lean meats, and other whole foods are good for most people, but you should definitely check with your nutritionist for the best plan for you.

Dr. Wallach is a veterinarian and has no idea what CF is or how it works in humans. He did not cure anyone of CF. He sells his ideas and meals etc... based on HOPE. We all hope and want a cure, and think that maybe, just maybe, this obscure doctor really did figure it out. But he didn't. The best thing you can do is to have a dialogue with your CF care team, and to be compliant with your treatments. If there are little things that you do that you feel absolutely make you feel better, and your doctors confirm that they will not harm you, go for it. If you find out out that you are deficient in selenium and taking supplements actually do help you, great! But please, talk to your doctors first, and get the facts straight.

 

[CFjeff73]

Too funny... Yeah I came across Dr. Wallach myself and I even purchased his books. If you'd like a couple PDF's of all the parts where he mentions CF in his books "Rare Earth's Forbidden Cures" & "Lets Play Doctor" I'd be happy to email them to you. This is the video that peaked my interest for me, it's Dr. Peter Glidden speaking about Dr. Wallach and selenium ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsNi1hUo0hA&feature=youtu.be then there is this one from Wallach himself... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAOnx97T0WA

In his books he mentions that CF can be cured in the prenatal stage or at birth so I guess me being over 40 and having all my organs deficient in the growing stages the selenium theory goes out the window for me. What I still wonder is that before Dr. Wallach came along they had no method of reproducing CF and I'm still wondering what there method is because I know they still do animal testing so how in the hell are they manufacturing Cystic Fibrosis in order to do product testing and research. Are we to believe it is some sort of gene splicing or is it as simple as lowering the selenium levels and birthing it in?

 

[occupyjapan]

Too funny... Yeah I came across Dr. Wallach myself and I even purchased his books. If you'd like a couple PDF's of all the parts where he mentions CF in his books "Rare Earth's Forbidden Cures" & "Lets Play Doctor" I'd be happy to email them to you. This is the video that peaked my interest for me, it's Dr. Peter Glidden speaking about Dr. Wallach and selenium ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsNi1hUo0hA&feature=youtu.be then there is this one from Wallach himself... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAOnx97T0WA

In his books he mentions that CF can be cured in the prenatal stage or at birth so I guess me being over 40 and having all my organs deficient in the growing stages the selenium theory goes out the window for me. What I still wonder is that before Dr. Wallach came along they had no method of reproducing CF and I'm still wondering what there method is because I know they still do animal testing so how in the hell are they manufacturing Cystic Fibrosis in order to do product testing and research. Are we to believe it is some sort of gene splicing or is it as simple as lowering the selenium levels and birthing it in?

No. CF cannot be cured in the prenatal stage. Once your parents DNA has combined to form an embryo (you), you have their genes. Stop pushing this woo on desperate sick people. The man you're quoting is a VETERINARIAN.

 

[CFjeff73]

No. CF cannot be cured in the prenatal stage. Once your parents DNA has combined to form an embryo (you), you have their genes. Stop pushing this woo on desperate sick people. The man you're quoting is a VETERINARIAN.

That is assuming that CF is a genetic condition. All I'm quoting is Dr. Wallach's work... he claims that he can cause CF AT WILL by lowering ones selinium levels and he says he can prevent it as well by raising Selenium levels so THEREFORE... HE says it is a MINERAL DEFICIENCY and is not genetic... His work debunks the "DNA embryo genes" theory out the window. BTW just to let you know, this isn't my research but his that he has lived through and put out there.

Let's also face the facts... before DR. Wallach we only thought CF was a humans only disease but now we are able to replicate it in rats as well as monkeys... The big question is if we are able to replicate it does this mean we know the cause, which is also grounds for knowing the cure?!

 

[jaimers]

I wish it was as easy as a selenium deficiency! Here are some links below regarding his work.
http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/DSH/colloidalminerals.html
http://nutra-smart.net/al.htm

There is nothing wrong with looking into natural medicine as a complement to your regular cf meds. There are quite a few people on these forums that use alternative or natural medicines in addition to their regular cf meds and find them to be very helpful. You may find some threads in the alternative medicine forum interesting and a great place to start when Looking for information regarding cf and natural remedies.
our diets can be pretty bad and so additional vitamin and mineral supplements can be beneficial in helping our bodies perform in an optimal way to fight infection, give us energy, etc. however, claiming cf (that has clearly been identified as a genetic disease) is actually due to a mineral deficiency and that all of the scientists and geneticists are wrong is incredibly irresponsible and dangerous.

 

[Rickengelage]

Thanks for the replies.

In my opinion it is kinda douchy to say that cf is just caused mineral deficiency and is not genetic.
I think the fact he claims that, means he has no idea what cf means.

Its truely proven that cf is caused by cells not working correctly because of a defect in ones Dna.

He ignores that, which is ignoring the true cause of the desease, which is not gonna bring us closer to a cure.

Though I do believe in the fact that its harder for people with cf to absorb any kinds of minerals. And thus get a mineral deficiency.
So it might be good to supplement certain minerals.

Think of using smoothies, its easier to digest for the body.
Also we need to eat extra, and in smoothies you can put in alot of foods that would normally take alot more effort/time to eat.
Probably not even possible to eat the amount of foods at once u put in a smoothie! So it can definitly be a great add on to your diet.
Same for protein shakes.
And ofcourse vitemin pills etc.

A good and rich diet can definitly help us! Im certain about that.

Best to all,

Rick.

 

[CFjeff73]

I wish it was as easy as a selenium deficiency! Here are some links below regarding his work.
http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/DSH/colloidalminerals.html
http://nutra-smart.net/al.htm

There is nothing wrong with looking into natural medicine as a complement to your regular cf meds. There are quite a few people on these forums that use alternative or natural medicines in addition to their regular cf meds and find them to be very helpful. You may find some threads in the alternative medicine forum interesting and a great place to start when Looking for information regarding cf and natural remedies.
our diets can be pretty bad and so additional vitamin and mineral supplements can be beneficial in helping our bodies perform in an optimal way to fight infection, give us energy, etc. however, claiming cf (that has clearly been identified as a genetic disease) is actually due to a mineral deficiency and that all of the scientists and geneticists are wrong is incredibly irresponsible and dangerous.

How can I argue with a "Super Moderator" ;-). Here is a link to a passage taken out of Dr. Wallach's book explaining that THE CAUSE of the DNA genome being active for coding for CF is undetermined by science as of yet and that the studies behind what is considered to be a test for classifying one with Cystic Fibrosis is wonky as well... http://educate-yourself.org/cn/cysticfibrosisbywallach03sep03.shtml

Anyhow Jamiers, I'm not posting Wallach's stuff to be misleading and the links you sent were pretty damning to his work & good to know if we are to consider both sides of the chess board.
I also hear you on the supplementation stuff in addition to some regular prescribed meds., that makes sense... I can't afford to go w/o Creon or perhaps hypertonic saline for example but I also do a daily green juice as well.

I just want to know THE TRUTH... did Dr. Wallach lower and raise selenium doses effecting the outcome of a birth with CF & is his claim to reproduce it in any animal valid or is he a liar in order to sell minerals from some mine that aren't even bio-available. Did Dr. Wallach work with and discover the first animal outside of a human to have CF and most importantly HOW THE HELL ARE THEY/SCIENCE MANUFACTURING CYSTIC FIBROSIS IN ANIMALS FOR TESTING AND RESEARCH. Is Science giving products to animals to lower selenium... Are they birthing CF in... Or is Science so far advanced that they are causing CF in petri dishes on a cellular level.

If science can create any animal with Cystic Fibrosis then surly they know what causes it. Let's forget Dr. Wallach for a moment since this article is about "THE CURE" and just ask what word SCIENCE truly is that we just blindly put our faith in just because some claim uses the words scientific or genetically discovered... why should we think the scientists and the corporations have our best interest over product testing to market nothing more then symptom regulators rather then preventions or cause issues. From what I've seen in life it seems like nobody works for free and everyone wants a return so am I to go on thinking that Science has my back and that if they find some kind of simple plant to help fight a cause, that Science/corporations will forgo their 900million bux they spent on producing one pill that is nothing more then a symptom controller, they will just tell the public to take some plant instead?

Science is only as good as the corporate funding's and corporations have run a muck... but that is another story all together... nevertheless it is the reason Truth gets swept under the rug like Wallach says happened to him... now either it happened or it didn't... some chick who didn't like an MLM product Wallach sells who does a writeup about him on quackwatch.com has some valid points but what about his research, what about the assertions written in his books on CF? refer to bold claims in post once again... http://educate-yourself.org/cn/cysticfibrosisbywallach03sep03.shtml I don't see anyone debunking his book statements and claims on CF?! All I see is people attacking his past jobs and MLM tapes and supplements he sells... so what.

 

[believingjesus]

I wonder if anyone has ever tried taking selenium in those doses other than through foods? I wonder why his claim has never been tested? I read about selenium but it said that it can cause diabetes in high doses. I feel when you are faced with a desperate disease and nobody is really doing anything to cure it, just treat symptoms, that it would have been tested by now? We are all really desperate when faced with CF. I know Kalydeco is coming out soon for people with DDF508 but I feel it is similar to pulmozyme which is wonderful but people who are adults really need something more. The knowledge that doctors have now is far greater than they had when my son was growing up which is good for the younger generation but not adults who have already been exposed to bacterias that we know now how to at least try to prevent. I feel the science community should be working faster and more desperately for all those who need it now.

 

[bobderr]

Selenium

Hi Rick -- I have a wealth of information on this topic and would be glad to discuss. You can call our 800 number at 1-800-900-2790.
All the best,

Bob Derr
Pennsylvania Cystic Fibrosis, Inc. (PACFI)
www.pacfi.org

Hello people,

I read some odd articals on the internet about a doctor called Dr.Joel D. Wallach.
He said to have discovered the cause cured and prevention cystic fibrosis in 1978.
He says that cystic fibrosis more caused by deficiency of selenium.
He said to have proven this, and the experts agreed back then.
He said he tested it on primates.
And he cured them, then they fired him. Because they said it wasnt possible what he did cuz its a genetic desease.
And some say he actually got fired cuz they cant make money from giving selenium to people.

He says he can reverse cf with supplementation of selenium.

Personally, I think the story is kinda nuts, obviously cf is a genetic desease.
And to cure it with selenium?
Im not so sure.

What do u know about selenium? Have u been using it ever?

Just like u probably also dont believe selenium will cure us, I dont either.
But It may have benefits taking selenium.
Im gonna buy some tomorrow and see it for myself.
It has been proven fact though that people with cf do have a deficiency in selenium.

Let me know what u think of this? And if you have ever used selenium before!

Best to all!

Rick.

 

[kosdancer]

I don't think I can even address all of the scientific misunderstandings here, but just a few:
Wallach did not induce cf in animals using selenium.
The way that scientists create CF in lab animals is generally by finding a similar gene to the human gene and disabling it. There is actually not a perfect CF mouse model. Our lab animals that we use are not a direct replication of cf in humans.
We know that CF is a genetic disease because we can look at the DNA of people with CF and see that they all have the same disabled/malfunctioning gene. This is not in dispute. There is no other side. Dr. Wallach is either a terrible human trying to prey on people who don't understand science and are looking for hope, or he genuinely does not understand science. If taking selenium were so great then his patients would surely be speaking out about how well they're doing, but they aren't, because it does not actually work, because CF is not a simple mineral deficiency. Please let me know if you want anything I've said clarified or added to. Apologies for any typos, I wrote this on my phone.

 

[BreathinSteven]

... I feel when you are faced with a desperate disease and nobody is really doing anything to cure it, just treat symptoms, that it would have been tested by now? We are all really desperate when faced with CF....

Believing -- that's when the quacks, like Dr. Wallach, step in...

And, there is incredible research being done -- like the Kalydeco you mentioned -- it will never be fast enough for many of us... Some of the problem is that CF is a tiny, little problem in a world of hurt... Childhood cancer probably devastates 10-20 children and young adults for every one person impacted by cystic fibrosis. And -- beyond cancer, there are dozens of equally and even more devastating diseases impacting children, young adults and human beings in general. Government sponsored research tends to go where they'll get the most bang for the buck - that would not be CF. Corporate research tends to go where they'll get the most buck for the bang. Again - treating 10 million diabetics or 40 million obese is going to be more profitable than treating 30 thousand CFers.

As you mentioned -- there have been incredible advances... When I was diagnosed, at the age of 13 in the early 1970s, we were not expected to survive our teens. Now we're getting into adulthood with promising treatments on the horizon. It's still not fast enough -- it cannot possibly be fast enough for you, or for my mom, or for any mom or dad watching their child struggle.

Love, Steve

 

[bobderr]

I spent 5 hours interviewing Wallach in St. Louis in 1978 because our youngest son had just been diagnosed with CF. I would be glad to discuss, and you can call our 800 number at 1-800-900-2790.

All the best,
Bob Derr, Pennsylvania Cystic Fibrosis, Inc. (PACFI)
www.pacfi.org

 

[Hail2Pitt]

There's a general comment I wanted to add. I'm blessed to have a brother-in-law who is a pulmonologist, and one of his specialties is actually CF. I'd already married his sister at the point I was diagnosed, so it's pretty wild that we have this in common. Anyway, while I'm careful to not ask him for advice, as I don't want to cross that boundary, we do talk about CF from time-to-time as well as what life is like being a doctor. So, I feel that I have a little insight into our CF doctors' perspectives. The reality is that our doctors want to see us healthy, and they want us to be cured. While we of course wish we didn't have to take all the drugs they prescribe for us, spend so much time on airway clearance, etc., they wish we didn't have to either. If we could all pop a few selenium pills each day and live a normal life, I guarantee one of our CF docs would have figured it out by now and we'd all be doing it. These guys and gals are ridiculously smart, and in addition to caring for patients, many are doing a ton of research that we're probably not even aware of.

When it comes to the drug companies, they're profit-driven, so we have a right to be skeptical. But, does anyone really think they are working behind the scenes to prevent the discovery of a cheap cure? How many millions are they making off of packaged-up sterile salt water for crying out loud? If selenium was found to be the answer, some company would no doubt develop "pharmaceutical-grade selenium", drive it through clinical trials, force our insurance companies (and us) pay a huge amount for it, and make tons of money off of a simple product that provides them with a massive return on investment. But unfortunately, it's not the answer - curing this disease isn't an easy problem to solve.

 

[ladybird]

HOW THE HELL ARE THEY/SCIENCE MANUFACTURING CYSTIC FIBROSIS IN ANIMALS FOR TESTING AND RESEARCH. I - See more at: http://forum.cysticfibrosis.com/threads/118858-The-quot-cure-quot-Selenium#sthash.0ND31CSv.dpuf

My understanding is they use transgenic mice. See http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21658634
Also, in Van Goor's research in vitro he used bronchial cells from donated CF lungs.

If anyone has cured their CF by taking selenium I'm sure we would know about it by now. So far we are still waiting.

 

[CFjeff73]

My understanding is they use transgenic mice. See http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21658634
Also, in Van Goor's research in vitro he used bronchial cells from donated CF lungs.

If anyone has cured their CF by taking selenium I'm sure we would know about it by now. So far we are still waiting.

Good to know ladybird, great link Big Thanks...
So transgenic mice happen through genetically engineering a "viral DNA" in the embryo to over express endogenous genes or through embryonic stem cells that also take over the genomic DNA. Also good to know is the in vitro process as well with donated bronchial cells from CF lungs.

So in 1989 the defective gene responsible for cystic fibrosis was isolated for the first time by Science, I know this helps the screening of CF but I wonder if this also plays into the whole transgenic mice experiment that the scientists are running with? I mean Jesus, God only knows what un-natural elements make up the insertion of the CF trait/cell/gene in order for it to stick and then God only knows what they are trying to cure or experiment on after they created it.

I saw the documentary "Future of Food"(I highly recommend Every Human to see it) at about 25minutes into the film they go into the exact scientific ways in which Science makes Genetically engineered food and I imagine it's not much of a different method with the viral DNA or stem Cell method that's used with the engineered transgenic mice... very seriously scary method folks, talk about playing God -The Science is insane on a cellular level when it comes to engineering life itself!

Oh well so Dr. Wallach's Selenium studies might not be the silver bullet cure. Or maybe Selenium is some kind of DNA co-factor to the mutation and we don't know what combination Dr. Wallach was using on his subjects unbenounced to himself in which worked for him -if I give him the benefit of the doubt that is.

I suppose it's like you say ladybird "so far we're still waiting." Cheers to all my fellow CFer's & Cheers to this forum where we all can share.

PS. if anyone does want to know about Wallach or as much as a story can go I do recommend giving bobderr a ring, I did THANKS BOB!

 

[occupyjapan]

As usual, CFJeff is pushing pseudoscience. Here's all anyone needs to know about Wallach: he's a VETERINARIAN who thinks CF can be cured by diet. He's also widely regarded in the legitimate medical community as a quack and a fraud. Even his supporters have to stretch the truth to the breaking point when they talk to him. They often mention he was nominated for a Nobel Prize... what they fail to mention is that anyone can be nominated for a Nobel Prize and that Wallach in particular was nominated by yet a different group of quack "naturopaths" that have absolutely zero scientific or legitimate medical credentials.

"Wallach's supporters frequently describe him as a Nobel Prize nominee [8]. Actually, he was "nominated" in 1991 for his "research" on cystic fibrosis by the Association of Eclectic Physicians, a naturopathic group with no scientific standing. His research findings [9] were invalid, because the people he studied were self-selected, and not randomized; he did not follow an appropriate data-gathering protocol; his diagnoses were made with a questionnaire; and his report made claims about other data that were either unsupported or unreferenced. The Nobel Committee gave no credence to Wallach's "nomination" and, in an unprecedented move, officially denied that he was ever a legitimate nominee [10,11]."

More info available here: http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/DSH/colloidalminerals.html

 

[occupyjapan]

I usually try to have solidarity and support others living with CF regardless of their personal opinions, but if anyone with CF is dumb enough to base their treatment regimen on the crackpot ramblings of a widely discredited *VETERINARIAN*, they're going to get what's coming to them sooner or later.

 

[occupyjapan]

I spent 5 hours interviewing Wallach in St. Louis in 1978 because our youngest son had just been diagnosed with CF. I would be glad to discuss, and you can call our 800 number at 1-800-900-2790.

All the best,
Bob Derr, Pennsylvania Cystic Fibrosis, Inc. (PACFI)
www.pacfi.org

How about you just post it here so that it can be critiqued instead of doing nothing but self-promoting your 800 number? This forum is for information for CF patients and their families. You have posted absolutely no information beyond saying that you talked to a veterinarian 35 years ago for 5 hours. Why don't you just post your info here?

Oh. Right. Because your pro-Wallach-the-veterinarian position will crumble into dust if it's challenged by actually scientific-minded users.

This should be red flag number 2,145 for those of you reading this who are on the fence: they won't actually post their info here for all of us to discuss, they want to get desperate people 1-on-1 on the phone so they can appeal to your emotions. Absolutely disgusting tactic.