Too many enzymes??

mellimoo91

New member
Hi, I was just wondering, is it possible to take too many enzymes?
I've recently had to increase my enzymes and now I'm worried that
I'm taking too many. I'm on Cotazymes Forte it says on the pack
that they contain Lipase 10,000 BP units<img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif" border="0"> if that helps
lol. Well anyway this morning for breakfast i took 16...and that
kind of seemed like a lot. I know it was a fatty brekkie
(bacon, hash browns and a poached egg yummmyyy), but is this too
much??? I'm looking at going on Creon (a higher strength one then
the ones I'm on now). But for now could I be taking too many?
It works out to about 1 enzyme per approx. 3 grams of fat that I'm
eating. Thanks!!
 

Allisa35

Member
I don't really know for sure if that is considered a lot or not since each patient is different. 16 sure seems like a lot to me, but I only take 2-4 depending on how greasy/fatty the food is. I was on Pancreas pills for a long time, but I started having more stomach problems and my dr. switched me to Ultrase MT12. I think it helped a bit. Maybe once you get switched to a new med (Creon), maybe you won't have to take as many. Is 16 what your dr. recommended that you take?? Sorry I can't be of more help. I think I would talk to your dr. about it. Good luck!!
 

anonymous

New member
My doctor and dietician have both told me that taking too many can cause colon fissures, and they thought it best not up my dosage from 9 pills (Creon MT20). I wouldn't take the risk, call your doctor up. Also, I hadn't heard of counting fat to determine dosage, as mine is always 9, or less for a small snack. I think you should consider protein also, unless you don't take enzymes for that (I guess it's called Protease?).
 

kybert

New member
too much. way too much. most docs dont encourage having more than 12 cotazyme forte with a meal like that.
 

charl72

New member
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>mellimoo91</b></i> Hi, I was just
wondering, is it possible to take too many enzymes? I've recently
had to increase my enzymes and now I'm worried that I'm taking too
many. I'm on Cotazymes Forte it says on the pack that they contain
Lipase 10,000 BP units<img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif" border="0"> if that helps lol. Well anyway
this morning for breakfast i took 16...and that kind of seemed
like a lot. I know it was a fatty brekkie (bacon, hash browns and a
poached egg yummmyyy), but is this too much??? I'm looking at going
on Creon (a higher strength one then the ones I'm on now). But for
now could I be taking too many? It works out to about 1 enzyme
per approx. 3 grams of fat that I'm eating. Thanks!!</end quote></div><br>
<br>
<br>
My daughter takes 1 enzyme for approx 4 grams of fat and she is two
and a half years old!  She is on Creon 10000. I agree this is
a high amount, but if she takes any less it really affects her
stools.  She has always needed a high amount.
 

charl72

New member
Sorry, meant to say 2 enzymes for approx 4 grams of fat.<img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif" border="0">
 

alwaysursamor

New member
I take 4-6 creon 20 with meals. When I almost when up to 7 they got
VERY VERY cautious. My docs told me they determine it by you height
weight and calories or something not by fat. Is that what your doc
told you to take? If not call him or the next time you go to clinic
see if you can switch so that maybe you can take less.
 

coltsfan715

New member
I would be wary of raising the number of enzymes you take on your own without consulting the doc. If it seems like a high number to take to you there is probably a reason - it very well may be too high of a number to take.

I know when I was in middle school they had to lower my enzymes because they said if you take to many over an extended period of time it can cause colon problems. I was starting to have intense stomach pain even though I was taking my meds - they did some tests and decided nothing was obviously wrong but they recalculated how the number of enzymes I should take. They determined that the prescription the had given me for 7 per meal was too high, and that I should be taking 4 on average and 5 with extremely fatty or greasy meals.

I would talk to the doc just to confirm that it is okay to take that many. It may not be a problem, but then again getting the okay from the doc is always a relief.

I take Ultrase MT20 and take 4 per meal on average. I take 1-3 with small snacks and 5 with extremely fatty/greasy meals.

Lindsey
 

anonymous

New member
Danger of High Dosages

The recommended dose (Editor's Note: predates publication cited above) for digestive enzymes is 1500 to 3000 Units of lipase per kilogram of body weight per meal. Doses above 6000 Units of lipase per kilogram meal, (or 4.5 MT-24 capsules per meal) have been associated with colonic stricture: the ascending colon becomes blocked, sometimes requiring a surgical solution. This has occurred predominantly in young males during the warmest summer months, and may be associated with dehydration. A rule of thumb is one MT-24 for each 18 grams, or 162 calories, of fat. For some people with excessive stomach acid, antacid may insure the enteric coated microtablets reach the digestive tract where the enzymes do their stuff.

Brand names: Pancrease; Cotazym

A First-Person Account

As I'm sure you've heard repeatedly, the symptoms and meds needed will vary considerably between PWCF. For the longest time, (my wife) and I were very concerned over what we felt was the excessively large enzyme doses prescribed for each meal. (My child) (PWCF) was taking three to four times the enzyme doses listed in the enzyme instructions as "typical". We were afraid his digestive system was getting worse and worse.

It took us about a year to come to understand that what works for others (especially the mystical "average" PWCF) isn't necessarily the best for (my child). Right now (my child), who is three years old, takes three Pancrease MT-20 _and_ one Creon-10 before each meal. He also takes Zantac twice daily to reduce stomach acidity, so the coating on the enzymes breaks down properly to release the enzymes. Before starting the Zantac we were using as many as five Pancrease MT-20 and one-to-two Creon-10 with each meal.

(My child)'s diet is consistently a little higher in fat and protein than I would normally plan for myself. We use ADEKs, vitamin-C, and Omega Oil as dietary supplements, and (my child) (surprisingly) loves raw carrots, celery and fresh vegetable juices (so much that we give him extra as rewards instead of sweets). Sometimes, *when* you give the enzymes makes a difference. Because (my child)'s often a picky eater at lunch, we usually give him one Creon-10 and one Pancrease MT-20 in yogurt just before he starts eating, and then give him the additional one or two Pancrease MT-20 during or after his meal (in the same yogurt), depending on how much he ate. Otherwise we give him the whole dose in applesauce a few minutes before he starts eating. For between-meal snacks we usually give one Creon-10 for cookies or a candy bar or a piece of cake. However, we really try to avoid giving him any sweets between meals, because he doesn't eat well following that. Instead, we give him a very small amount of pretzel, carrot, or celery sticks, or maybe a couple slices of fruit.

According to our CF doc, we need to give (my child) enough enzymes to break down most of the fat he eats, so that his stools are well-formed and not excessively foul-smelling or light-colored. At least once a year we collect samples of (my child)'s stool for several days, and the CF doc does a fat-content analysis to make sure he's really getting enough enzymes.

Having said all that, there are children with CF close to (my child)'s age that go to the same center and take wildly different enzyme doses. A good friend of ours also has a three year-old with CF who regularly takes five Pancrease MT-20 and one Creon-10. Some others do well on only two Ultrease (these didn't work well for (my child)). Your doctor should be the best source of advice for your child's treatment. He/she is (or should be) educated and experienced dealing with a wide variety of CF patients. It also doesn't hurt to seek the advice of a second doctor if you have doubts about your regular doctor. We did this once, and it help us better understand the dynamics of treatment.

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://cystic-l.org/handbook/html/digestive_enzyme_supplements.htm">Source of Information: Cystic-L.org Handbook </a>
 

JennifersHope

New member
Gosh this post sent me into a tizzy.... I was just reading on the internet that is you take to high of dose of enzymes you can get colon strictures and plus it can cause major obstuction... I was wondering if that is what happen to my colon.. but from what I read it is mostly in the ascending colon.. my trouble is in the descending colon.....

I am really interested in this topic if anyone else has anything to add.. I am on Pancrease MT20 which is the highest dose they make.. I only take two or three with meals but still..

I guess I will see what they find when they go in and do surgery... Anyone ever experience colonic strictures or fibrotic colon from to much enzymes?

Jennifer
 

thelizardqueen

New member
I can think of taking that many, but that was back in the day when I was really young (like 5 or 6) - I was taking about 12 Pancreases per meal, but I like to think of that as the 80s - back in the sort of dark ages of CF - lol.
 

kybert

New member
princessjdc, 9 creon 20 with meals is pushing the 'too much' boundary too. i dont think you could safely go above 9 with 1 meal. if people are having to take so much they should consider taking something to reduce their stomach acid. acid is usually the reason why enzymes dont work when you increase the dosage.
 

JennifersHope

New member
I was thinking about this again this morning.. I don't think anyone can really tell you how many is enough or not enough.. IT depends on the person.. My friend John took an obscene amount of enzymes with all his food.. I mean tons... I would say close to 15 or more... I can't exactly remember and he did really well from a GI standpoint. .He was a wonderful weight..Even had a little belly before his lungs got real bad...

So I do think it depends on the person. For me, I am still thinking maybe I am over enzyming myself...

Jennifer
 
S

skh

Guest
My daughter takes 3 Ulatrase MT20 with her meals and depending upon the snack she will either take 1 or none. This seems to work for her and has been for the past 4 years.
 

CowTown

New member
I would say you need some adjustments on what you're taking and how many. 16 seems like way too many, and most likely not efficient. I would imagine you have to go up in strength and decrease the amount taken.

I used to take Pancrease MT 16s and went from 5-6 w/ meals, then years and years later went up to 13 or more w/ meals before I told my doctors about it. I would also still feel bloated at that time too. I switched to Ultrase MT20s, 5-6 w/ meals (greasy and all!) and I'm good to go now, and not bloated.

Good luck sorting it out.
 

mellimoo91

New member
Thank you all so much for your replies. I did get a bit worried
after all this so I have slightly decreased my enzymes for now and
I'll see how that goes. My mum has rescheduled my next clinic
appointment to make it sooner, and I will also be seeing a GI
doctor and getting some lovely stool samples (oh joy). I will also
definitely be switching enzymes and perhaps trying an antacid and I
have started taking small amounts of the enzymes regularly
throughout my meal, rather than all at once. Thanks again for all
of your suggestions They've really helped a lot <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0">
 
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