When is it time?

JustDucky · Oct 19, 2011

I agree with Tom. I too am a RN, when I was practicing I too cared for the dying. As Kristen stated, people have their own way of dealing with impending death and they do know when their time is near. If a patient said that they were going to die, I took it very seriously. It was always a feeling they would get, something they themselves had a hard time explaining to me when I asked them how they knew. Many would say they were just so tired, mentally and physically. The hardest ones to witness were the ones who struggled until the end, mentally they did not seem ready to go, but their bodies had other plans. Others were very much at peace. Those individuals had a look of tranquility about them, almost angelic. Some were scared, knew they were dying but were afraid of the unknown and if it would hurt. It was my job to comfort these people any way I could, medically and psychologically and I felt honored to care for them during their final journey.
 
 Jenn 39 w/CF

Incomudrox · Oct 19, 2011

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: just1more <div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Incomudrox It's time to die when you give up. Plain and simple.</end quote></div>

I have to disagree strongly. This is neither a supportive post; nor an accurate one.

Yes, sometimes people do "give up". But since the OP has been listed for over a year that is clearly not the case.

But just as likely it is possible to face death with dignity and grace. We all die, some much younger than others. To claim that accepting death and preparing for it is somehow giving up is insulting.

Death is a uniquely personal act, nobody can tell you how or when you will die, and nobody can tell you how you should act when the time comes.
Some will fight to their dying breath; some will choose to go quietly with a loved one sitting beside them. Neither is right or wrong, and nobody alive has the place to judge that decision.
</end quote></div>

You have to agree huh? What exactly do you know about dying young? Or feeling like you are close to death? Please enlighten me oh master of all omnipotence! It's not accurate.... I'm glad you have been in my shoes... When you are done with them I'll give you my address so you can mail them back to me, because you must have walked so far away from me with them, since you know what my life is like. The fact that the OP doesn't even know their FEV1 and estimates it to be in the 20s shows me, that they may not have a strong will to care. That maybe the case it may not be. Maybe the OP doesn't have funds or insurance to get PFT's done? What do I know... I can only speculate. Being fine with dying to me says that you have given up and are ready to accept whatever happens, but you don't care because you just don't want to go on anymore so it must mean "let come what may" right? Tell me I'm wrong?

Yes you are right we all die, but me I have been close to death and my PFT's have been in the 20s for a year that I know of possibly longer. I'm not on oxygen, luck of the draw I guess. I'm 22 and plan to live into my 60s hell or high-water. How can you say NO ONE can say when someone will die? Or how? Have you seen the news or movies? Terrorist kill people everyday in some 3rd world countries. Those people know they are going to die before it happens and know exactly how. Their captors or killers could tell them but why state the obvious? Sure I took that out of context but it just shows how some people (you) think only in the moment. Lastly you say "nobody alive has the place to judge" someone's decision to die. So why are you judging my choice to live? It's the same thing because I am CHOOSING not to accept death so there for it is my decision against death that you are judging. You are implying that I should give up all hope and accept that I have a terminal illness and die. Have fun with that. Also I guess I should bow down to someone in their mid 30s who find it necessary to "show off" to everyone that they are enrolled in medical school, so they must know more that us? I'm not impressed personally I've "schooled" more med students when I was 16 about numerous things while in and outpatient. So please, if you feel it necessary please continue to think that because you are enrolled in med school you can talk to me like I'm an imbecile. For those that think this post is out of line, just know that I say what I think is on my mind and don't hold back.

Incomudrox · Oct 19, 2011

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: just1more <div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Incomudrox It's time to die when you give up. Plain and simple.</end quote>

I have to disagree strongly. This is neither a supportive post; nor an accurate one.

Yes, sometimes people do "give up". But since the OP has been listed for over a year that is clearly not the case.

But just as likely it is possible to face death with dignity and grace. We all die, some much younger than others. To claim that accepting death and preparing for it is somehow giving up is insulting.

Death is a uniquely personal act, nobody can tell you how or when you will die, and nobody can tell you how you should act when the time comes.
Some will fight to their dying breath; some will choose to go quietly with a loved one sitting beside them. Neither is right or wrong, and nobody alive has the place to judge that decision.
</end quote>

You have to agree huh? What exactly do you know about dying young? Or feeling like you are close to death? Please enlighten me oh master of all omnipotence! It's not accurate.... I'm glad you have been in my shoes... When you are done with them I'll give you my address so you can mail them back to me, because you must have walked so far away from me with them, since you know what my life is like. The fact that the OP doesn't even know their FEV1 and estimates it to be in the 20s shows me, that they may not have a strong will to care. That maybe the case it may not be. Maybe the OP doesn't have funds or insurance to get PFT's done? What do I know... I can only speculate. Being fine with dying to me says that you have given up and are ready to accept whatever happens, but you don't care because you just don't want to go on anymore so it must mean "let come what may" right? Tell me I'm wrong?

Yes you are right we all die, but me I have been close to death and my PFT's have been in the 20s for a year that I know of possibly longer. I'm not on oxygen, luck of the draw I guess. I'm 22 and plan to live into my 60s hell or high-water. How can you say NO ONE can say when someone will die? Or how? Have you seen the news or movies? Terrorist kill people everyday in some 3rd world countries. Those people know they are going to die before it happens and know exactly how. Their captors or killers could tell them but why state the obvious? Sure I took that out of context but it just shows how some people (you) think only in the moment. Lastly you say "nobody alive has the place to judge" someone's decision to die. So why are you judging my choice to live? It's the same thing because I am CHOOSING not to accept death so there for it is my decision against death that you are judging. You are implying that I should give up all hope and accept that I have a terminal illness and die. Have fun with that. Also I guess I should bow down to someone in their mid 30s who find it necessary to "show off" to everyone that they are enrolled in medical school, so they must know more that us? I'm not impressed personally I've "schooled" more med students when I was 16 about numerous things while in and outpatient. So please, if you feel it necessary please continue to think that because you are enrolled in med school you can talk to me like I'm an imbecile. For those that think this post is out of line, just know that I say what I think is on my mind and don't hold back.

Incomudrox · Oct 19, 2011

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: just1more <div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Incomudrox It's time to die when you give up. Plain and simple.</end quote>
 
 I have to disagree strongly. This is neither a supportive post; nor an accurate one.
 
 Yes, sometimes people do "give up". But since the OP has been listed for over a year that is clearly not the case.
 
 But just as likely it is possible to face death with dignity and grace. We all die, some much younger than others. To claim that accepting death and preparing for it is somehow giving up is insulting.
 
 Death is a uniquely personal act, nobody can tell you how or when you will die, and nobody can tell you how you should act when the time comes.
 Some will fight to their dying breath; some will choose to go quietly with a loved one sitting beside them. Neither is right or wrong, and nobody alive has the place to judge that decision.
 </end quote>
 
 You have to agree huh? What exactly do you know about dying young? Or feeling like you are close to death? Please enlighten me oh master of all omnipotence! It's not accurate.... I'm glad you have been in my shoes... When you are done with them I'll give you my address so you can mail them back to me, because you must have walked so far away from me with them, since you know what my life is like. The fact that the OP doesn't even know their FEV1 and estimates it to be in the 20s shows me, that they may not have a strong will to care. That maybe the case it may not be. Maybe the OP doesn't have funds or insurance to get PFT's done? What do I know... I can only speculate. Being fine with dying to me says that you have given up and are ready to accept whatever happens, but you don't care because you just don't want to go on anymore so it must mean "let come what may" right? Tell me I'm wrong?
 
 Yes you are right we all die, but me I have been close to death and my PFT's have been in the 20s for a year that I know of possibly longer. I'm not on oxygen, luck of the draw I guess. I'm 22 and plan to live into my 60s hell or high-water. How can you say NO ONE can say when someone will die? Or how? Have you seen the news or movies? Terrorist kill people everyday in some 3rd world countries. Those people know they are going to die before it happens and know exactly how. Their captors or killers could tell them but why state the obvious? Sure I took that out of context but it just shows how some people (you) think only in the moment. Lastly you say "nobody alive has the place to judge" someone's decision to die. So why are you judging my choice to live? It's the same thing because I am CHOOSING not to accept death so there for it is my decision against death that you are judging. You are implying that I should give up all hope and accept that I have a terminal illness and die. Have fun with that. Also I guess I should bow down to someone in their mid 30s who find it necessary to "show off" to everyone that they are enrolled in medical school, so they must know more that us? I'm not impressed personally I've "schooled" more med students when I was 16 about numerous things while in and outpatient. So please, if you feel it necessary please continue to think that because you are enrolled in med school you can talk to me like I'm an imbecile. For those that think this post is out of line, just know that I say what I think is on my mind and don't hold back.

Printer · Oct 19, 2011

Tom:

Will you LOCK this thread too?

Bill

Printer · Oct 19, 2011

Tom:

Will you LOCK this thread too?

Bill

Printer · Oct 19, 2011

Tom:
 
 Will you LOCK this thread too?
 
 Bill

Incomudrox · Oct 19, 2011

Nice, if they don't like me ban me.......

Incomudrox · Oct 19, 2011

Nice, if they don't like me ban me.......

Incomudrox · Oct 19, 2011

Nice, if they don't like me ban me.......

Mistyjo · Oct 19, 2011

Ok...I'm just going to state my experience on this. My neice was 10 yrs old when she passed away from Luekemia. She had been in the hospital for an entire year and in ICU most of that time. She was on a ventilator for 12 weeks at one stretch. She was a very, very ill child. My sister wanted her to keep fighting. She was begging her, my neice said no. She was done fighting. She died 3 days later. In her journal she wrote that she could hear angels in her room.
My Mom had pulmonary fibrosis among other major health issues. She battled most of my life. She was constantly in/out of the hospital the last 3 yrs she was alive. She was tired of the fight. She had lung surgeries, bronchoscopies, chronic pnuemonia, high dose steriods, bowel obstructions, absesses of infection in her body with drainage tubes. In the end, she said "no more". One of the last things she said to me was " I want to go home". She was a preacher. I did not fight her.

Mistyjo · Oct 19, 2011

Ok...I'm just going to state my experience on this. My neice was 10 yrs old when she passed away from Luekemia. She had been in the hospital for an entire year and in ICU most of that time. She was on a ventilator for 12 weeks at one stretch. She was a very, very ill child. My sister wanted her to keep fighting. She was begging her, my neice said no. She was done fighting. She died 3 days later. In her journal she wrote that she could hear angels in her room.
My Mom had pulmonary fibrosis among other major health issues. She battled most of my life. She was constantly in/out of the hospital the last 3 yrs she was alive. She was tired of the fight. She had lung surgeries, bronchoscopies, chronic pnuemonia, high dose steriods, bowel obstructions, absesses of infection in her body with drainage tubes. In the end, she said "no more". One of the last things she said to me was " I want to go home". She was a preacher. I did not fight her.

Mistyjo · Oct 19, 2011

Ok...I'm just going to state my experience on this. My neice was 10 yrs old when she passed away from Luekemia. She had been in the hospital for an entire year and in ICU most of that time. She was on a ventilator for 12 weeks at one stretch. She was a very, very ill child. My sister wanted her to keep fighting. She was begging her, my neice said no. She was done fighting. She died 3 days later. In her journal she wrote that she could hear angels in her room.
 My Mom had pulmonary fibrosis among other major health issues. She battled most of my life. She was constantly in/out of the hospital the last 3 yrs she was alive. She was tired of the fight. She had lung surgeries, bronchoscopies, chronic pnuemonia, high dose steriods, bowel obstructions, absesses of infection in her body with drainage tubes. In the end, she said "no more". One of the last things she said to me was " I want to go home". She was a preacher. I did not fight her.

Mistyjo · Oct 19, 2011

Ok...I'm just going to state my experience on this. My neice was 10 yrs old when she passed away from Luekemia. She had been in the hospital for an entire year and in ICU most of that time. She was on a ventilator for 12 weeks at one stretch. She was a very, very ill child. My sister wanted her to keep fighting. She was begging her, my neice said no. She was done fighting. She died 3 days later. In her journal she wrote that she could hear angels in her room.
My Mom had pulmonary fibrosis among other major health issues. She battled most of my life. She was constantly in/out of the hospital the last 3 yrs she was alive. She was tired of the fight. She had lung surgeries, bronchoscopies, chronic pnuemonia, high dose steriods, bowel obstructions, absesses of infection in her body with drainage tubes. In the end, she said "no more". One of the last things she said to me was " I want to go home". She was a preacher. I did not fight her.

Mistyjo · Oct 19, 2011

Ok...I'm just going to state my experience on this. My neice was 10 yrs old when she passed away from Luekemia. She had been in the hospital for an entire year and in ICU most of that time. She was on a ventilator for 12 weeks at one stretch. She was a very, very ill child. My sister wanted her to keep fighting. She was begging her, my neice said no. She was done fighting. She died 3 days later. In her journal she wrote that she could hear angels in her room.
My Mom had pulmonary fibrosis among other major health issues. She battled most of my life. She was constantly in/out of the hospital the last 3 yrs she was alive. She was tired of the fight. She had lung surgeries, bronchoscopies, chronic pnuemonia, high dose steriods, bowel obstructions, absesses of infection in her body with drainage tubes. In the end, she said "no more". One of the last things she said to me was " I want to go home". She was a preacher. I did not fight her.

Mistyjo · Oct 19, 2011

Ok...I'm just going to state my experience on this. My neice was 10 yrs old when she passed away from Luekemia. She had been in the hospital for an entire year and in ICU most of that time. She was on a ventilator for 12 weeks at one stretch. She was a very, very ill child. My sister wanted her to keep fighting. She was begging her, my neice said no. She was done fighting. She died 3 days later. In her journal she wrote that she could hear angels in her room.
 My Mom had pulmonary fibrosis among other major health issues. She battled most of my life. She was constantly in/out of the hospital the last 3 yrs she was alive. She was tired of the fight. She had lung surgeries, bronchoscopies, chronic pnuemonia, high dose steriods, bowel obstructions, absesses of infection in her body with drainage tubes. In the end, she said "no more". One of the last things she said to me was " I want to go home". She was a preacher. I did not fight her.

just1more · Oct 19, 2011

1) I'm not showing off anything. The disclaimer in my signature is there for liability purposes only. Period.

2) I don't intend to ban anyone, in 3+ years I can count the users that I have taken ANY action against on 1 hand and they were for clear issues; not personal opinions.

3) I have locked on average 2-3 threads/year on this site. Every one because that thread had reached a point where it was needed.

Incomudrox, I did not judge your choice to fight and live. One of my closest friends fought to her dying breath well older than you are and I have great respect for her. But the OP was looking for SUPPORT, and telling her that she will die when she gives up is NOT support. My reply was specific in that you were rude to the OP when she is clearly struggling right now and I felt it was unjustified.

There are members of this site that have reached a point in their struggle that they decided it was time. They have discontinued treatments, utilized comfort measures and said their goodbyes. Would you imply that you are in a position to say they were wrong because you chose a different path?

This is a community, and it exists for the support and knowledge we can provide each other. It is not my community, it is not yours, it belongs to the CF family as a whole.

just1more · Oct 19, 2011

1) I'm not showing off anything. The disclaimer in my signature is there for liability purposes only. Period.

2) I don't intend to ban anyone, in 3+ years I can count the users that I have taken ANY action against on 1 hand and they were for clear issues; not personal opinions.

3) I have locked on average 2-3 threads/year on this site. Every one because that thread had reached a point where it was needed.

Incomudrox, I did not judge your choice to fight and live. One of my closest friends fought to her dying breath well older than you are and I have great respect for her. But the OP was looking for SUPPORT, and telling her that she will die when she gives up is NOT support. My reply was specific in that you were rude to the OP when she is clearly struggling right now and I felt it was unjustified.

There are members of this site that have reached a point in their struggle that they decided it was time. They have discontinued treatments, utilized comfort measures and said their goodbyes. Would you imply that you are in a position to say they were wrong because you chose a different path?

This is a community, and it exists for the support and knowledge we can provide each other. It is not my community, it is not yours, it belongs to the CF family as a whole.

just1more · Oct 19, 2011

1) I'm not showing off anything. The disclaimer in my signature is there for liability purposes only. Period.
 
 2) I don't intend to ban anyone, in 3+ years I can count the users that I have taken ANY action against on 1 hand and they were for clear issues; not personal opinions.
 
 3) I have locked on average 2-3 threads/year on this site. Every one because that thread had reached a point where it was needed.
 
 Incomudrox, I did not judge your choice to fight and live. One of my closest friends fought to her dying breath well older than you are and I have great respect for her. But the OP was looking for SUPPORT, and telling her that she will die when she gives up is NOT support. My reply was specific in that you were rude to the OP when she is clearly struggling right now and I felt it was unjustified.
 
 There are members of this site that have reached a point in their struggle that they decided it was time. They have discontinued treatments, utilized comfort measures and said their goodbyes. Would you imply that you are in a position to say they were wrong because you chose a different path?
 
 This is a community, and it exists for the support and knowledge we can provide each other. It is not my community, it is not yours, it belongs to the CF family as a whole.

Incomudrox · Oct 19, 2011

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: just1more 1) I'm not showing off anything. The disclaimer in my signature is there for liability purposes only. Period. 2) I don't intend to ban anyone, in 3+ years I can count the users that I have taken ANY action against on 1 hand and they were for clear issues; not personal opinions. 3) I have locked on average 2-3 threads/year on this site. Every one because that thread had reached a point where it was needed. Incomudrox, I did not judge your choice to fight and live. One of my closest friends fought to her dying breath well older than you are and I have great respect for her. But the OP was looking for SUPPORT, and telling her that she will die when she gives up is NOT support. My reply was specific in that you were rude to the OP when she is clearly struggling right now and I felt it was unjustified. There are members of this site that have reached a point in their struggle that they decided it was time. They have discontinued treatments, utilized comfort measures and said their goodbyes. Would you imply that you are in a position to say they were wrong because you chose a different path? This is a community, and it exists for the support and knowledge we can provide each other. It is not my community, it is not yours, it belongs to the CF family as a whole.</end quote></div>

I am GLAD you see that this is my personal opinion. A forum is for DEBATE, as far back as it goes to even to roman time. So one can voice his or her opinion, on the other hand repeated person attacks in my opinion are grounds for banning. If you feel as though this was a person attack on you I apologize. I have been a moderator on several forums and it's something I won't stand for either. I try to walk a fine line however, as that is what is in my human nature. However I will and do voice my whole-hearted and honest opinion as I so believe it. I agree the OP is looking for support but even as the OP admits this may have been opening a can of worms, and it did. While I don't retract what I said, as it is what I believe I should say I meant it out of trying to remain hopeful and to NOT give up, more of an implied statement. I say a lot of things, which require people to read between the lines. I have done this all my life including my job and it has gotten me in trouble so of the time because people take what I say to the fullest extent of the literal meaning of the words I say. Someone who chooses a different path has the right to do that. It is their wish to follow the path which they BELIEVE in, either for personal or religious reasons. However it is my right, that I don't have to agree with or like their believe, but I can not stop them from it. I can only give advice or opinion and hope that they change their mind because, of that fact that I believe my belief is correct. Does it mean my belief is correct? No it does not. No one is to say that anyone is right because everything is subjective to what a persons beliefs are. It goes back to simple human beginnings. Like why a cup is called a cup? Because everyone agrees that is it a cup.

When is it time?

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