Yet another reason not to rely on antibiotics!

Faust

New member
Read this in the paper I believe on sunday. Pretty bleak outlook for people with CF and other bad conditions that rely on antibiotics mostly. This is ANOTHER good reason why bacteria inhibiting natural substances need to be further pursued by the Cystic Fibrosis Foundation:
(quick summation: The large pharmaceutical companies don't feel antibiotic research is profitable, in comparison to what some drugs like lipitor and viagra take in. Many companies have either drastically reduced their manpower and research, or all out removed them from their antibiotic areas. Meaning, there more than likely won't be any new and great antibiotics in the future, but they will dump all their research cash into obesity drugs, depression drugs, and other extreme $$$$$ makers where tons and tons of people will be taking them, probably for life).

<a target=new class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/business/14012704.htm">Link to the article.</a>


Antibiotics meet match, Wall Street
As drug resistance rises, unprofitable research falters, putting lives at risk
BY LAURA BEIL
Dallas Morning News

DALLAS

Sylvia LaRue had been a nurse long enough to know the golf-ball size lump shooting pain into her scalp was a staph infection. The test results still stunned her.

"I've been a nurse since 1977, and I've never seen a lab report like that," LaRue said of her 2004 encounter with Staphylococcus aureus. The bacteria were resistant or just marginally vulnerable to 10 of the 11 medicines on the list. The single option left to her was trimethoprim/sulfa ? not a creation of high-tech science, but a combination developed decades ago.

In the modern antibiotic era, the old drugs are often the only drugs. Many of the world's pharmaceutical giants are losing interest in the pursuit of new antibiotics and slashing their antimicrobial research divisions. At the same time, the germs continue to strengthen their ability to defy the drugs already on the market.

Already, some patients are left with only one or two useful medications. As resistance climbs and research interest falls, infectious-disease experts worry about a day when some infections may reach the point of being virtually unstoppable.

"I don't think it's a crisis right now," said Dr. George McCracken, head of infectious disease at Children's Medical Center Dallas. But it might be, he says, "in the next three to five years."

He and other experts are most concerned about the microbes that breed in hospitals, such as staph, pseudomonas and vancomycin-resistant enterococci. These germs seize on weakened patients connected to tubes that offer bacteria inviting portals to the body's innermost reaches. About 2 million people each year will contract an infection they didn't have upon admission.

"In most American hospitals, we are going to have at any point in time somewhere between one and two patients where we have to scramble to find adequate treatment," said Dr. John Bartlett, head of infectious diseases at Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine.

ANTIBIOTICS DROUGHT

Once, new antibiotics flowed readily. Between 1935 and 1968, 11 classes of antibiotics ? a "class" targets bacteria in a unique way ? came on the market. After that, none appeared for more than 30 years. One was approved in 2000, with two more in 2003 and 2005. But those newest antibiotic classes were the outcome of research that began more than a decade ago. Today, doctors lament the paucity of new drugs in the wings and say much of what are in the pipeline are simply updated versions of old medications.

Since 2000, some of the household names in the drug business ? including Wyeth, Aventis, Eli Lilly, Bristol-Myers Squibb, Abbott Laboratories ? have cut or eliminated antibiotics research. The reasons are complicated, but the bottom line is still about money. Drug companies are amassing into ever-larger conglomerates, and Wall Street is demanding the highest possible profit margins. From a strictly business standpoint, the most attractive prescription is the one taken by a lot of patients for a long time.

A successful new antibiotic ? generally designed to be taken for short periods ? might reap a few hundred million dollars a year during its brand-protected life. Compare that with the cholesterol-lowering Lipitor, which a patient might take for a lifetime. It brought in more than $12 billion to Pfizer in 2005. Among the top 20 prescription sellers last year, none was an antibiotic.

"These are critically important drugs. They save lives, and they save them fast," said Steven Projan, vice president of biological technologies for the drug giant Wyeth, which abandoned antibiotics discovery in 2002. But the reality is, "the therapy is going to be for three days to two weeks. It's not like you're giving somebody Lipitor for the rest of their lives."

Other issues, however, both scientific and regulatory, also discourage antibiotics research, Projan said. Antibiotic development can be harder than other drug endeavors, he believes, "and it's harder for reasons we are just starting to understand."

"LOW-HANGING FRUIT ? PICKED"

Bacteria have occupied the planet longer than humans, evolving sophisticated mechanisms to outsmart chemical assaults. Most of the current antibiotics, often found by accident, are based on substances extracted from other living things that have spent eons refining the tactics of chemical warfare. Today, the vein of natural compounds largely has been mined, and more modern approaches ? techniques that rely on disabling a microbe's inner genetic machinery ? have been disappointing.

When drug maker Eli Lilly & Co. mulled its future direction in 2002, the feeling was that "this is one area of drug discovery where I think the low-hanging fruit had been picked," said vice president Gail Cassell.

Companies who continue to pursue antibiotics say they aren't expecting breathtaking payoffs. "This is not something that is a major blockbuster type of product," said Dr. Lynn Marks of GlaxoSmithKline, which submitted a new topical antibiotic for FDA approval in February. "I think our stockholders understand there's more to being a great corporation than just turning pure profit."

But where many big pharma companies see anemic profits for enormous effort, small entrepreneurs see opportunity. "Where it's happening," McCracken said of antibiotics research, "is with the small companies."

Biotech companies don't depend on a Lipitor-scale return.

"If we made $100 million, that would be real money to us," said Simon Lynch, director of research for Dallas-based Cumbre Inc. And smaller companies tout themselves as being leaner and more passionate than their famous counterparts, knowing that their entire survival depends on having a product to show for their time.

Companies like Cumbre have maybe two dozen or so research scientists, while the larger firms might employ hundreds. Yet finding a drug isn't necessarily a matter of having the most Petri dishes.

For example, Cumbre is tightly focused on defeating biofilm infections ? the slimy, often impenetrable communities of bacteria that can coat the insides of catheters and the surface of bones.

THE ISSUE HITS HOME

But can small pharma succeed where big pharma can't? Wyeth's Projan remains skeptical.

"We have a huge amount of experience doing this, and they tend to make all the mistakes we do," he said. He says he believes in the need; the last approved new drug class was a Wyeth invention. A turnaround in antibiotic discovery, he said, will depend on better innovation, not just better economics.

"What we need are new chemistries. We've been stuck in the solar system, and we need to get out into the galaxy."

It's a public health issue that Beverly Perry hadn't considered until November, when her mother, Jean Baccus, suffered a stroke. Five days after Baccus entered the hospital, bacteria invaded her IV line and set up an outpost in her spine.

More than three months later, Baccus' stroke rehabilitation can't begin because the drug-resistant staph infection hangs on.

"You think, 'OK, let's give her antibiotics and get it over with,' " Perry said. The stubbornness of the infection astonished her. "We tell her, 'It's just going to be a couple more weeks.' "

And a couple of weeks turn into a couple more weeks. Baccus now must be taken to the hospital each day for antibiotic infusions that are sluggish in working.

"She's in so much pain," Perry said. "I think everybody needs to know how serious this is."
 

Faust

New member
Read this in the paper I believe on sunday. Pretty bleak outlook for people with CF and other bad conditions that rely on antibiotics mostly. This is ANOTHER good reason why bacteria inhibiting natural substances need to be further pursued by the Cystic Fibrosis Foundation:
(quick summation: The large pharmaceutical companies don't feel antibiotic research is profitable, in comparison to what some drugs like lipitor and viagra take in. Many companies have either drastically reduced their manpower and research, or all out removed them from their antibiotic areas. Meaning, there more than likely won't be any new and great antibiotics in the future, but they will dump all their research cash into obesity drugs, depression drugs, and other extreme $$$$$ makers where tons and tons of people will be taking them, probably for life).

<a target=new class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/business/14012704.htm">Link to the article.</a>


Antibiotics meet match, Wall Street
As drug resistance rises, unprofitable research falters, putting lives at risk
BY LAURA BEIL
Dallas Morning News

DALLAS

Sylvia LaRue had been a nurse long enough to know the golf-ball size lump shooting pain into her scalp was a staph infection. The test results still stunned her.

"I've been a nurse since 1977, and I've never seen a lab report like that," LaRue said of her 2004 encounter with Staphylococcus aureus. The bacteria were resistant or just marginally vulnerable to 10 of the 11 medicines on the list. The single option left to her was trimethoprim/sulfa ? not a creation of high-tech science, but a combination developed decades ago.

In the modern antibiotic era, the old drugs are often the only drugs. Many of the world's pharmaceutical giants are losing interest in the pursuit of new antibiotics and slashing their antimicrobial research divisions. At the same time, the germs continue to strengthen their ability to defy the drugs already on the market.

Already, some patients are left with only one or two useful medications. As resistance climbs and research interest falls, infectious-disease experts worry about a day when some infections may reach the point of being virtually unstoppable.

"I don't think it's a crisis right now," said Dr. George McCracken, head of infectious disease at Children's Medical Center Dallas. But it might be, he says, "in the next three to five years."

He and other experts are most concerned about the microbes that breed in hospitals, such as staph, pseudomonas and vancomycin-resistant enterococci. These germs seize on weakened patients connected to tubes that offer bacteria inviting portals to the body's innermost reaches. About 2 million people each year will contract an infection they didn't have upon admission.

"In most American hospitals, we are going to have at any point in time somewhere between one and two patients where we have to scramble to find adequate treatment," said Dr. John Bartlett, head of infectious diseases at Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine.

ANTIBIOTICS DROUGHT

Once, new antibiotics flowed readily. Between 1935 and 1968, 11 classes of antibiotics ? a "class" targets bacteria in a unique way ? came on the market. After that, none appeared for more than 30 years. One was approved in 2000, with two more in 2003 and 2005. But those newest antibiotic classes were the outcome of research that began more than a decade ago. Today, doctors lament the paucity of new drugs in the wings and say much of what are in the pipeline are simply updated versions of old medications.

Since 2000, some of the household names in the drug business ? including Wyeth, Aventis, Eli Lilly, Bristol-Myers Squibb, Abbott Laboratories ? have cut or eliminated antibiotics research. The reasons are complicated, but the bottom line is still about money. Drug companies are amassing into ever-larger conglomerates, and Wall Street is demanding the highest possible profit margins. From a strictly business standpoint, the most attractive prescription is the one taken by a lot of patients for a long time.

A successful new antibiotic ? generally designed to be taken for short periods ? might reap a few hundred million dollars a year during its brand-protected life. Compare that with the cholesterol-lowering Lipitor, which a patient might take for a lifetime. It brought in more than $12 billion to Pfizer in 2005. Among the top 20 prescription sellers last year, none was an antibiotic.

"These are critically important drugs. They save lives, and they save them fast," said Steven Projan, vice president of biological technologies for the drug giant Wyeth, which abandoned antibiotics discovery in 2002. But the reality is, "the therapy is going to be for three days to two weeks. It's not like you're giving somebody Lipitor for the rest of their lives."

Other issues, however, both scientific and regulatory, also discourage antibiotics research, Projan said. Antibiotic development can be harder than other drug endeavors, he believes, "and it's harder for reasons we are just starting to understand."

"LOW-HANGING FRUIT ? PICKED"

Bacteria have occupied the planet longer than humans, evolving sophisticated mechanisms to outsmart chemical assaults. Most of the current antibiotics, often found by accident, are based on substances extracted from other living things that have spent eons refining the tactics of chemical warfare. Today, the vein of natural compounds largely has been mined, and more modern approaches ? techniques that rely on disabling a microbe's inner genetic machinery ? have been disappointing.

When drug maker Eli Lilly & Co. mulled its future direction in 2002, the feeling was that "this is one area of drug discovery where I think the low-hanging fruit had been picked," said vice president Gail Cassell.

Companies who continue to pursue antibiotics say they aren't expecting breathtaking payoffs. "This is not something that is a major blockbuster type of product," said Dr. Lynn Marks of GlaxoSmithKline, which submitted a new topical antibiotic for FDA approval in February. "I think our stockholders understand there's more to being a great corporation than just turning pure profit."

But where many big pharma companies see anemic profits for enormous effort, small entrepreneurs see opportunity. "Where it's happening," McCracken said of antibiotics research, "is with the small companies."

Biotech companies don't depend on a Lipitor-scale return.

"If we made $100 million, that would be real money to us," said Simon Lynch, director of research for Dallas-based Cumbre Inc. And smaller companies tout themselves as being leaner and more passionate than their famous counterparts, knowing that their entire survival depends on having a product to show for their time.

Companies like Cumbre have maybe two dozen or so research scientists, while the larger firms might employ hundreds. Yet finding a drug isn't necessarily a matter of having the most Petri dishes.

For example, Cumbre is tightly focused on defeating biofilm infections ? the slimy, often impenetrable communities of bacteria that can coat the insides of catheters and the surface of bones.

THE ISSUE HITS HOME

But can small pharma succeed where big pharma can't? Wyeth's Projan remains skeptical.

"We have a huge amount of experience doing this, and they tend to make all the mistakes we do," he said. He says he believes in the need; the last approved new drug class was a Wyeth invention. A turnaround in antibiotic discovery, he said, will depend on better innovation, not just better economics.

"What we need are new chemistries. We've been stuck in the solar system, and we need to get out into the galaxy."

It's a public health issue that Beverly Perry hadn't considered until November, when her mother, Jean Baccus, suffered a stroke. Five days after Baccus entered the hospital, bacteria invaded her IV line and set up an outpost in her spine.

More than three months later, Baccus' stroke rehabilitation can't begin because the drug-resistant staph infection hangs on.

"You think, 'OK, let's give her antibiotics and get it over with,' " Perry said. The stubbornness of the infection astonished her. "We tell her, 'It's just going to be a couple more weeks.' "

And a couple of weeks turn into a couple more weeks. Baccus now must be taken to the hospital each day for antibiotic infusions that are sluggish in working.

"She's in so much pain," Perry said. "I think everybody needs to know how serious this is."
 

thelizardqueen

New member
That scares me. With CF - drug resistancy is common place. What will we use when ALL of our drugs become resistant? If no one is coming up with new ones, how does that make our future look? That's why I'm very much against using drugs i.e. IVs unless you absoutly need them. Our bacteria is becoming resistant to so many drugs out there, that there isn't a lot left for us to use.
 

thelizardqueen

New member
That scares me. With CF - drug resistancy is common place. What will we use when ALL of our drugs become resistant? If no one is coming up with new ones, how does that make our future look? That's why I'm very much against using drugs i.e. IVs unless you absoutly need them. Our bacteria is becoming resistant to so many drugs out there, that there isn't a lot left for us to use.
 

Faust

New member
<blockquote>Quote<br><hr><i>Originally posted by: <b>thelizardqueen</b></i><br>That scares me. With CF - drug resistancy is common place. What will we use when ALL of our drugs become resistant? If no one is coming up with new ones, how does that make our future look? That's why I'm very much against using drugs i.e. IVs unless you absoutly need them. Our bacteria is becoming resistant to so many drugs out there, that there isn't a lot left for us to use.<hr></blockquote>


Yup that's why I posted that. People (and especially many CF's) just have the mindset of "Ill just take all these antibiotics like a madman, cause if I get a resistance to it, there will always be more new antibiotics". Sadly, that seems to not be the case for the future. As i've said before, the pharmaceutical companies are looking to make the most stagger $$$$ profit margins possible. So the future of antibiotics for chronic conditions like ours looks EXTREMELY bleak...Unless the CF foundation and other specialty small disease foundations do their own research, but I wouldn't rely on that safety net. To me, our only partial solution is to seriously open other peoples eyes to more natural substances that naturally inhibit bacteria. Theres a good deal of substances out there that do that, and most if not all of their constituents don't become resistant to microbes. We need to push the foundation into looking into these things, and potentially find a way to extract some of their properties and market them cheaply in medicinal grade for others to use daily for maintenance of their bad flora. Otherwise we just keep getting nuked, get sick again, get nuked, develope new resistant strains, then eventually we will be resistant to everything besides vancomycin, and you don't want to use that freely for obvious reasons. Scary future.
 

Faust

New member
<blockquote>Quote<br><hr><i>Originally posted by: <b>thelizardqueen</b></i><br>That scares me. With CF - drug resistancy is common place. What will we use when ALL of our drugs become resistant? If no one is coming up with new ones, how does that make our future look? That's why I'm very much against using drugs i.e. IVs unless you absoutly need them. Our bacteria is becoming resistant to so many drugs out there, that there isn't a lot left for us to use.<hr></blockquote>


Yup that's why I posted that. People (and especially many CF's) just have the mindset of "Ill just take all these antibiotics like a madman, cause if I get a resistance to it, there will always be more new antibiotics". Sadly, that seems to not be the case for the future. As i've said before, the pharmaceutical companies are looking to make the most stagger $$$$ profit margins possible. So the future of antibiotics for chronic conditions like ours looks EXTREMELY bleak...Unless the CF foundation and other specialty small disease foundations do their own research, but I wouldn't rely on that safety net. To me, our only partial solution is to seriously open other peoples eyes to more natural substances that naturally inhibit bacteria. Theres a good deal of substances out there that do that, and most if not all of their constituents don't become resistant to microbes. We need to push the foundation into looking into these things, and potentially find a way to extract some of their properties and market them cheaply in medicinal grade for others to use daily for maintenance of their bad flora. Otherwise we just keep getting nuked, get sick again, get nuked, develope new resistant strains, then eventually we will be resistant to everything besides vancomycin, and you don't want to use that freely for obvious reasons. Scary future.
 

LouLou

New member
Amy, Is he putting anyone on Glutathione (GSH) yet? or going to wait until FDA approval? A bunch of people on here are already taking it by pill and some inhaled. I bought the pills but am waiting to start them until I get pft results to do with me taking OO. I've heard some CF centers are starting their patients on GSH now.

Man must be a doule edge sword... encouraging doc's to rx antibiotics so that drug co. will keep up the research but also hoping that the general public doesn't abuse antibiotics making the germs resistant to our 'few' antibiotics.

btw - my husband is a (pharmaceutical) organic chemist so I am fully aware of all that goes into the making of a drug. 95% of his day is failure - I really don't know how he keeps a good attitude about his work. No wonder he gets irrate when they have commericals or people talk crap about how the pharma. industry is charging too much for drugs.
 

LouLou

New member
Amy, Is he putting anyone on Glutathione (GSH) yet? or going to wait until FDA approval? A bunch of people on here are already taking it by pill and some inhaled. I bought the pills but am waiting to start them until I get pft results to do with me taking OO. I've heard some CF centers are starting their patients on GSH now.

Man must be a doule edge sword... encouraging doc's to rx antibiotics so that drug co. will keep up the research but also hoping that the general public doesn't abuse antibiotics making the germs resistant to our 'few' antibiotics.

btw - my husband is a (pharmaceutical) organic chemist so I am fully aware of all that goes into the making of a drug. 95% of his day is failure - I really don't know how he keeps a good attitude about his work. No wonder he gets irrate when they have commericals or people talk crap about how the pharma. industry is charging too much for drugs.
 

Faust

New member
<blockquote>Quote<br><hr><i>Originally posted by: <b>LouLou</b></i><br>Amy, Is he putting anyone on Glutathione (GSH) yet? or going to wait until FDA approval? A bunch of people on here are already taking it by pill and some inhaled. I bought the pills but am waiting to start them until I get pft results to do with me taking OO. I've heard some CF centers are starting their patients on GSH now.



Man must be a doule edge sword... encouraging doc's to rx antibiotics so that drug co. will keep up the research but also hoping that the general public doesn't abuse antibiotics making the germs resistant to our 'few' antibiotics.



btw - my husband is a (pharmaceutical) organic chemist so I am fully aware of all that goes into the making of a drug. 95% of his day is failure - I really don't know how he keeps a good attitude about his work. No wonder he gets irrate when they have commericals or people talk crap about how the pharma. industry is charging too much for drugs.<hr></blockquote>


No doubt. If my work was comprised of 95% of "I wonder if this will work"...."WRONG! TRY AGAIN!" over and over and over and over again, i'd probably have to get a new job. That kind of constant failure must eat away at you big time.

And yes it is a double edged sword. I feel antibiotics are a very important part of treating CF, but at the same time I feel there are natural things our there like oregano oil, monolaurin, and GSH and many others, where if applied right to our care, could highly contribute to us not getting infections in the first place, so we wouldn't have to use antibiotics. On the other hand, I can fully understand the angle of the pharmaceutical companies. It's a business like anything else, and they want to maximize their investment return. What is going to sell more, a new super viagra or anti fat pill (us Americans are ALL about our sex and not wanting to be fat!), or some limited use antibiotic that would treat an "orphan disease"?

So yes, I understand the quandry, but there is no real simple answer. If we overuse antibiotics, or use them for long periods of time, we develope resistances and those can spread to other CF's, and in the long run be VERY bad for us. If we don't use them, they won't make more to help us. It's messed up, and the government needs to get involved bigtime. Pass legislation to make antibiotic research federally funded so they don't have to worry about their profits.
 

Faust

New member
<blockquote>Quote<br><hr><i>Originally posted by: <b>LouLou</b></i><br>Amy, Is he putting anyone on Glutathione (GSH) yet? or going to wait until FDA approval? A bunch of people on here are already taking it by pill and some inhaled. I bought the pills but am waiting to start them until I get pft results to do with me taking OO. I've heard some CF centers are starting their patients on GSH now.



Man must be a doule edge sword... encouraging doc's to rx antibiotics so that drug co. will keep up the research but also hoping that the general public doesn't abuse antibiotics making the germs resistant to our 'few' antibiotics.



btw - my husband is a (pharmaceutical) organic chemist so I am fully aware of all that goes into the making of a drug. 95% of his day is failure - I really don't know how he keeps a good attitude about his work. No wonder he gets irrate when they have commericals or people talk crap about how the pharma. industry is charging too much for drugs.<hr></blockquote>


No doubt. If my work was comprised of 95% of "I wonder if this will work"...."WRONG! TRY AGAIN!" over and over and over and over again, i'd probably have to get a new job. That kind of constant failure must eat away at you big time.

And yes it is a double edged sword. I feel antibiotics are a very important part of treating CF, but at the same time I feel there are natural things our there like oregano oil, monolaurin, and GSH and many others, where if applied right to our care, could highly contribute to us not getting infections in the first place, so we wouldn't have to use antibiotics. On the other hand, I can fully understand the angle of the pharmaceutical companies. It's a business like anything else, and they want to maximize their investment return. What is going to sell more, a new super viagra or anti fat pill (us Americans are ALL about our sex and not wanting to be fat!), or some limited use antibiotic that would treat an "orphan disease"?

So yes, I understand the quandry, but there is no real simple answer. If we overuse antibiotics, or use them for long periods of time, we develope resistances and those can spread to other CF's, and in the long run be VERY bad for us. If we don't use them, they won't make more to help us. It's messed up, and the government needs to get involved bigtime. Pass legislation to make antibiotic research federally funded so they don't have to worry about their profits.
 

gsplover

New member
What bothers me about this is those who don't have CF and they go to the doctor for every little sniffle, they start and antibiotic and stop using it when they feel better. This really ticks me off. They don't understand they are playing with our health!
 

gsplover

New member
What bothers me about this is those who don't have CF and they go to the doctor for every little sniffle, they start and antibiotic and stop using it when they feel better. This really ticks me off. They don't understand they are playing with our health!
 
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