Brilliant Doctors

2

2perfectboys

Guest
Your right, family can not do it all. But doctors can't do it all either. Ultimately, that person is responsible for themselves. If someone is kept on a 72 hour hold and then tells the doctor they are no longer suicidal, then they have to follow the law. I am very sorry for your brothers death. Suicide is such a prevelant thing in our society. I agree there are not a lot of quality facilities for dealing with depression and suicide. I have dealt with several people that attempted suicide for attention. But the there are the ones that are set on killing themselve and they usually eventually suceed. A person that commits suicide is not in their right mind and thinking rationally, and see no other way to deal with life. That is the sad truth of suicide and it leaves a lot of deep scars with the survivors.

Lori
 
2

2perfectboys

Guest
Your right, family can not do it all. But doctors can't do it all either. Ultimately, that person is responsible for themselves. If someone is kept on a 72 hour hold and then tells the doctor they are no longer suicidal, then they have to follow the law. I am very sorry for your brothers death. Suicide is such a prevelant thing in our society. I agree there are not a lot of quality facilities for dealing with depression and suicide. I have dealt with several people that attempted suicide for attention. But the there are the ones that are set on killing themselve and they usually eventually suceed. A person that commits suicide is not in their right mind and thinking rationally, and see no other way to deal with life. That is the sad truth of suicide and it leaves a lot of deep scars with the survivors.

Lori
 
B

blondelawyer

New member
Wow...that is crazy! I am glad that your husband told you about the meds and you were able to get them.

I am continually amazed at the things that doctors/hospitals do/don't do. It makes me feel like I have to be with my husband 24/7 when he is in the hospital to make sure that he is receiving the meds that he should and not the ones that he shouldn't. It is really scary.

I agree that this shouldn't be the responsibility of spouses, family members, etc. Doctors and other healthcare providers MUST be more on top of these things. I really worry about patients that for whatever reason don't have someone around to keep watch.

This is simply unacceptable--particularly since he was just seen at that same ER. You should write a letter to the hospital or something--get it documented.
 
B

blondelawyer

New member
Wow...that is crazy! I am glad that your husband told you about the meds and you were able to get them.

I am continually amazed at the things that doctors/hospitals do/don't do. It makes me feel like I have to be with my husband 24/7 when he is in the hospital to make sure that he is receiving the meds that he should and not the ones that he shouldn't. It is really scary.

I agree that this shouldn't be the responsibility of spouses, family members, etc. Doctors and other healthcare providers MUST be more on top of these things. I really worry about patients that for whatever reason don't have someone around to keep watch.

This is simply unacceptable--particularly since he was just seen at that same ER. You should write a letter to the hospital or something--get it documented.
 
B

blondelawyer

New member
Wow...that is crazy! I am glad that your husband told you about the meds and you were able to get them.

I am continually amazed at the things that doctors/hospitals do/don't do. It makes me feel like I have to be with my husband 24/7 when he is in the hospital to make sure that he is receiving the meds that he should and not the ones that he shouldn't. It is really scary.

I agree that this shouldn't be the responsibility of spouses, family members, etc. Doctors and other healthcare providers MUST be more on top of these things. I really worry about patients that for whatever reason don't have someone around to keep watch.

This is simply unacceptable--particularly since he was just seen at that same ER. You should write a letter to the hospital or something--get it documented.
 
T

thefrogprincess

New member
It is extemely easy for me to see both sides of this issue. I wasn't with DH when he went in for the migraine, but I'm sure he did NOT bring up his suicide attempt while he was there. On the other hand, all of the charting at this hospital is done on computers. Very easy to look up a patient's history which should be done regardless of why the patient is there. The staff needs to know if a patient has a habbit of drug seeking, especially when the cheif complaint is pain. If the nurse or doc had taken a minute to pull up his history they would have seen his OD. They didn't though. They also gave his a scrip for high dose motrin, which is very hard on the kidnies, and DH only has 1. He should not have been given that med either. Doctors need to take a little more responsibility, when a person is in the ER with severe pain and they don't have someone with them, they are going to forget to mention things about their medical history. When I was in the ER in January Brian had to answer most of the questions for me because I just couldn't concentrate. I intend to call this doctor and/or his supervisor on my next day off.

In regards to him not being on a hold; they didn't keep him for numerous reasons. 1. he told one of his coworkers that he had taken the pills, so he regretted it. 2. The military was already requiring him to see a psychiatrist before we were even allowed to go home. If the psych had thought he was a danger to himself Brian would have been ordered to stay on base in the barracks on suicide watch. 3. I had already made arrangements with work to take the rest of the week off to stay with him and get him to his follow up appointments with the psych, his case worker, and his regular doctor. If I felt like I couldn't have handled it I would have said so and he would have been on base.
 
T

thefrogprincess

New member
It is extemely easy for me to see both sides of this issue. I wasn't with DH when he went in for the migraine, but I'm sure he did NOT bring up his suicide attempt while he was there. On the other hand, all of the charting at this hospital is done on computers. Very easy to look up a patient's history which should be done regardless of why the patient is there. The staff needs to know if a patient has a habbit of drug seeking, especially when the cheif complaint is pain. If the nurse or doc had taken a minute to pull up his history they would have seen his OD. They didn't though. They also gave his a scrip for high dose motrin, which is very hard on the kidnies, and DH only has 1. He should not have been given that med either. Doctors need to take a little more responsibility, when a person is in the ER with severe pain and they don't have someone with them, they are going to forget to mention things about their medical history. When I was in the ER in January Brian had to answer most of the questions for me because I just couldn't concentrate. I intend to call this doctor and/or his supervisor on my next day off.

In regards to him not being on a hold; they didn't keep him for numerous reasons. 1. he told one of his coworkers that he had taken the pills, so he regretted it. 2. The military was already requiring him to see a psychiatrist before we were even allowed to go home. If the psych had thought he was a danger to himself Brian would have been ordered to stay on base in the barracks on suicide watch. 3. I had already made arrangements with work to take the rest of the week off to stay with him and get him to his follow up appointments with the psych, his case worker, and his regular doctor. If I felt like I couldn't have handled it I would have said so and he would have been on base.
 
T

thefrogprincess

New member
It is extemely easy for me to see both sides of this issue. I wasn't with DH when he went in for the migraine, but I'm sure he did NOT bring up his suicide attempt while he was there. On the other hand, all of the charting at this hospital is done on computers. Very easy to look up a patient's history which should be done regardless of why the patient is there. The staff needs to know if a patient has a habbit of drug seeking, especially when the cheif complaint is pain. If the nurse or doc had taken a minute to pull up his history they would have seen his OD. They didn't though. They also gave his a scrip for high dose motrin, which is very hard on the kidnies, and DH only has 1. He should not have been given that med either. Doctors need to take a little more responsibility, when a person is in the ER with severe pain and they don't have someone with them, they are going to forget to mention things about their medical history. When I was in the ER in January Brian had to answer most of the questions for me because I just couldn't concentrate. I intend to call this doctor and/or his supervisor on my next day off.

In regards to him not being on a hold; they didn't keep him for numerous reasons. 1. he told one of his coworkers that he had taken the pills, so he regretted it. 2. The military was already requiring him to see a psychiatrist before we were even allowed to go home. If the psych had thought he was a danger to himself Brian would have been ordered to stay on base in the barracks on suicide watch. 3. I had already made arrangements with work to take the rest of the week off to stay with him and get him to his follow up appointments with the psych, his case worker, and his regular doctor. If I felt like I couldn't have handled it I would have said so and he would have been on base.
 
L

LisaV

New member
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>lightNlife</b></i>
Doesn't the language of the wedding vows include things like "to have and to hold"? And what about to "love, honor and obey (or in the case of many, cherish)



Love hopes all things. Protects all things. Endures all things. (1 Cor. 13) It breaks my heart that more women don't do right by their husbands by serving them and taking care of them as we should.

Isn't it about sharing your life with someone and trusting each other to be there for everything? I am my husband's keeper, protector, cheerleader, sounding board, budget coordinator, best friend, lover, cook, teammate, and he is all those things to me. Our marriage is beautiful because of it. If a marriage isn't those things, then why get married at all?

Marriage isn't a 50/50 deal. If it were, then we'd only ever stand nose to nose. It's 100/100, all the way. Every part of who I am and all of who he is makes us who we are. That's why they say "two shall become one flesh."</end quote></div>

Again, I was talking about severe suicidal depression--not regular day-to-day ups and downs.

Most spouses are not trained psychiatrists. And even if one is, being a psychiatrist to one's spouse is as risky and stupid a business as doing surgery on one's spouse. And as far as being one's spouse "keeper". I don't see exercising that kind of control over one's spouse anywhere in the marriage vows. Not to mention that it is impossible for anyone to "watch" another person 24 hours a day -- a psychiatric hospital would cover that with 3 shifts.

I might also point out that when someone is severely depressed they are unable to give 100% to the relationship. Actually they give 0% to the relationship because they don't even have enough whatever to give to themselves to be not depressed. A relationship with someone who is severely suicidally depressed would be a 100%-0% if you follow your reasoning. In actuality the nondepressed spouse is being asked to take on more (do the "work" of the depressed spouse) so it would end up being 200%-0%. A sure prescription for the nondepressed spouse to go down the tubes as well.

As a spouse it iss important (I believe) to know and accept your limitations--and for the medical establishment to recognize them as well and provide the same supports for a married person as they would for a single person.
 
L

LisaV

New member
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>lightNlife</b></i>
Doesn't the language of the wedding vows include things like "to have and to hold"? And what about to "love, honor and obey (or in the case of many, cherish)



Love hopes all things. Protects all things. Endures all things. (1 Cor. 13) It breaks my heart that more women don't do right by their husbands by serving them and taking care of them as we should.

Isn't it about sharing your life with someone and trusting each other to be there for everything? I am my husband's keeper, protector, cheerleader, sounding board, budget coordinator, best friend, lover, cook, teammate, and he is all those things to me. Our marriage is beautiful because of it. If a marriage isn't those things, then why get married at all?

Marriage isn't a 50/50 deal. If it were, then we'd only ever stand nose to nose. It's 100/100, all the way. Every part of who I am and all of who he is makes us who we are. That's why they say "two shall become one flesh."</end quote></div>

Again, I was talking about severe suicidal depression--not regular day-to-day ups and downs.

Most spouses are not trained psychiatrists. And even if one is, being a psychiatrist to one's spouse is as risky and stupid a business as doing surgery on one's spouse. And as far as being one's spouse "keeper". I don't see exercising that kind of control over one's spouse anywhere in the marriage vows. Not to mention that it is impossible for anyone to "watch" another person 24 hours a day -- a psychiatric hospital would cover that with 3 shifts.

I might also point out that when someone is severely depressed they are unable to give 100% to the relationship. Actually they give 0% to the relationship because they don't even have enough whatever to give to themselves to be not depressed. A relationship with someone who is severely suicidally depressed would be a 100%-0% if you follow your reasoning. In actuality the nondepressed spouse is being asked to take on more (do the "work" of the depressed spouse) so it would end up being 200%-0%. A sure prescription for the nondepressed spouse to go down the tubes as well.

As a spouse it iss important (I believe) to know and accept your limitations--and for the medical establishment to recognize them as well and provide the same supports for a married person as they would for a single person.
 
L

LisaV

New member
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>lightNlife</b></i>
Doesn't the language of the wedding vows include things like "to have and to hold"? And what about to "love, honor and obey (or in the case of many, cherish)



Love hopes all things. Protects all things. Endures all things. (1 Cor. 13) It breaks my heart that more women don't do right by their husbands by serving them and taking care of them as we should.

Isn't it about sharing your life with someone and trusting each other to be there for everything? I am my husband's keeper, protector, cheerleader, sounding board, budget coordinator, best friend, lover, cook, teammate, and he is all those things to me. Our marriage is beautiful because of it. If a marriage isn't those things, then why get married at all?

Marriage isn't a 50/50 deal. If it were, then we'd only ever stand nose to nose. It's 100/100, all the way. Every part of who I am and all of who he is makes us who we are. That's why they say "two shall become one flesh."</end quote></div>

Again, I was talking about severe suicidal depression--not regular day-to-day ups and downs.

Most spouses are not trained psychiatrists. And even if one is, being a psychiatrist to one's spouse is as risky and stupid a business as doing surgery on one's spouse. And as far as being one's spouse "keeper". I don't see exercising that kind of control over one's spouse anywhere in the marriage vows. Not to mention that it is impossible for anyone to "watch" another person 24 hours a day -- a psychiatric hospital would cover that with 3 shifts.

I might also point out that when someone is severely depressed they are unable to give 100% to the relationship. Actually they give 0% to the relationship because they don't even have enough whatever to give to themselves to be not depressed. A relationship with someone who is severely suicidally depressed would be a 100%-0% if you follow your reasoning. In actuality the nondepressed spouse is being asked to take on more (do the "work" of the depressed spouse) so it would end up being 200%-0%. A sure prescription for the nondepressed spouse to go down the tubes as well.

As a spouse it iss important (I believe) to know and accept your limitations--and for the medical establishment to recognize them as well and provide the same supports for a married person as they would for a single person.
 
D

dramamama

New member
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>LisaV</b></i>

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>lightNlife</b></i>

Doesn't the language of the wedding vows include things like "to have and to hold"? And what about to "love, honor and obey (or in the case of many, cherish)







Love hopes all things. Protects all things. Endures all things. (1 Cor. 13) It breaks my heart that more women don't do right by their husbands by serving them and taking care of them as we should.



Isn't it about sharing your life with someone and trusting each other to be there for everything? I am my husband's keeper, protector, cheerleader, sounding board, budget coordinator, best friend, lover, cook, teammate, and he is all those things to me. Our marriage is beautiful because of it. If a marriage isn't those things, then why get married at all?



Marriage isn't a 50/50 deal. If it were, then we'd only ever stand nose to nose. It's 100/100, all the way. Every part of who I am and all of who he is makes us who we are. That's why they say "two shall become one flesh."</end quote></div>



Again, I was talking about severe suicidal depression--not regular day-to-day ups and downs.



Most spouses are not trained psychiatrists. And even if one is, being a psychiatrist to one's spouse is as risky and stupid a business as doing surgery on one's spouse. And as far as being one's spouse "keeper". I don't see exercising that kind of control over one's spouse anywhere in the marriage vows. Not to mention that it is impossible for anyone to "watch" another person 24 hours a day -- a psychiatric hospital would cover that with 3 shifts.



I might also point out that when someone is severely depressed they are unable to give 100% to the relationship. Actually they give 0% to the relationship because they don't even have enough whatever to give to themselves to be not depressed. A relationship with someone who is severely suicidally depressed would be a 100%-0% if you follow your reasoning. In actuality the nondepressed spouse is being asked to take on more (do the "work" of the depressed spouse) so it would end up being 200%-0%. A sure prescription for the nondepressed spouse to go down the tubes as well.



As a spouse it iss important (I believe) to know and accept your limitations--and for the medical establishment to recognize them as well and provide the same supports for a married person as they would for a single person.</end quote></div>

As with most things in life, until you live it, you have no idea how bad it can be. Towards the end of my brother's life, we begged my s-i-l to leave my brother because she had become very ill....developed severe auto-immune disease due to the stress she was under. She wouldn't do it...she VOWED to be by his side until death...hers or his.

All of us here know cf to be bad...well I would choose cf over suicidal depression any day of the week. Mental illness is like nothing I have ever seen...it tore my family to shreds. I know that I speak out of turn at times...even though I try not to.
I can say with a 100% certainty, love did not cure my brother....neither did modern medicine. No bond can survive something like that if the other person is too ill to be a part of it. This is very different than cf. We try to stay healthy for ourselves and for our spouses. <b>In this case, you have one person willing another person to want to be alive. </b> She fought for 10 years and in the end, my brothers demons won.

My sister in law struggles with her feelings everyday. She constantly tells me she wasn't finished fighting for my brother to be healthy again. I have never seen someone hold onto her vows so strongly.....

Frogprincess-
I am sorry we hijacked your post. You are in my prayers.
 
D

dramamama

New member
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>LisaV</b></i>

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>lightNlife</b></i>

Doesn't the language of the wedding vows include things like "to have and to hold"? And what about to "love, honor and obey (or in the case of many, cherish)







Love hopes all things. Protects all things. Endures all things. (1 Cor. 13) It breaks my heart that more women don't do right by their husbands by serving them and taking care of them as we should.



Isn't it about sharing your life with someone and trusting each other to be there for everything? I am my husband's keeper, protector, cheerleader, sounding board, budget coordinator, best friend, lover, cook, teammate, and he is all those things to me. Our marriage is beautiful because of it. If a marriage isn't those things, then why get married at all?



Marriage isn't a 50/50 deal. If it were, then we'd only ever stand nose to nose. It's 100/100, all the way. Every part of who I am and all of who he is makes us who we are. That's why they say "two shall become one flesh."</end quote></div>



Again, I was talking about severe suicidal depression--not regular day-to-day ups and downs.



Most spouses are not trained psychiatrists. And even if one is, being a psychiatrist to one's spouse is as risky and stupid a business as doing surgery on one's spouse. And as far as being one's spouse "keeper". I don't see exercising that kind of control over one's spouse anywhere in the marriage vows. Not to mention that it is impossible for anyone to "watch" another person 24 hours a day -- a psychiatric hospital would cover that with 3 shifts.



I might also point out that when someone is severely depressed they are unable to give 100% to the relationship. Actually they give 0% to the relationship because they don't even have enough whatever to give to themselves to be not depressed. A relationship with someone who is severely suicidally depressed would be a 100%-0% if you follow your reasoning. In actuality the nondepressed spouse is being asked to take on more (do the "work" of the depressed spouse) so it would end up being 200%-0%. A sure prescription for the nondepressed spouse to go down the tubes as well.



As a spouse it iss important (I believe) to know and accept your limitations--and for the medical establishment to recognize them as well and provide the same supports for a married person as they would for a single person.</end quote></div>

As with most things in life, until you live it, you have no idea how bad it can be. Towards the end of my brother's life, we begged my s-i-l to leave my brother because she had become very ill....developed severe auto-immune disease due to the stress she was under. She wouldn't do it...she VOWED to be by his side until death...hers or his.

All of us here know cf to be bad...well I would choose cf over suicidal depression any day of the week. Mental illness is like nothing I have ever seen...it tore my family to shreds. I know that I speak out of turn at times...even though I try not to.
I can say with a 100% certainty, love did not cure my brother....neither did modern medicine. No bond can survive something like that if the other person is too ill to be a part of it. This is very different than cf. We try to stay healthy for ourselves and for our spouses. <b>In this case, you have one person willing another person to want to be alive. </b> She fought for 10 years and in the end, my brothers demons won.

My sister in law struggles with her feelings everyday. She constantly tells me she wasn't finished fighting for my brother to be healthy again. I have never seen someone hold onto her vows so strongly.....

Frogprincess-
I am sorry we hijacked your post. You are in my prayers.
 
D

dramamama

New member
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>LisaV</b></i>

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>lightNlife</b></i>

Doesn't the language of the wedding vows include things like "to have and to hold"? And what about to "love, honor and obey (or in the case of many, cherish)







Love hopes all things. Protects all things. Endures all things. (1 Cor. 13) It breaks my heart that more women don't do right by their husbands by serving them and taking care of them as we should.



Isn't it about sharing your life with someone and trusting each other to be there for everything? I am my husband's keeper, protector, cheerleader, sounding board, budget coordinator, best friend, lover, cook, teammate, and he is all those things to me. Our marriage is beautiful because of it. If a marriage isn't those things, then why get married at all?



Marriage isn't a 50/50 deal. If it were, then we'd only ever stand nose to nose. It's 100/100, all the way. Every part of who I am and all of who he is makes us who we are. That's why they say "two shall become one flesh."</end quote></div>



Again, I was talking about severe suicidal depression--not regular day-to-day ups and downs.



Most spouses are not trained psychiatrists. And even if one is, being a psychiatrist to one's spouse is as risky and stupid a business as doing surgery on one's spouse. And as far as being one's spouse "keeper". I don't see exercising that kind of control over one's spouse anywhere in the marriage vows. Not to mention that it is impossible for anyone to "watch" another person 24 hours a day -- a psychiatric hospital would cover that with 3 shifts.



I might also point out that when someone is severely depressed they are unable to give 100% to the relationship. Actually they give 0% to the relationship because they don't even have enough whatever to give to themselves to be not depressed. A relationship with someone who is severely suicidally depressed would be a 100%-0% if you follow your reasoning. In actuality the nondepressed spouse is being asked to take on more (do the "work" of the depressed spouse) so it would end up being 200%-0%. A sure prescription for the nondepressed spouse to go down the tubes as well.



As a spouse it iss important (I believe) to know and accept your limitations--and for the medical establishment to recognize them as well and provide the same supports for a married person as they would for a single person.</end quote></div>

As with most things in life, until you live it, you have no idea how bad it can be. Towards the end of my brother's life, we begged my s-i-l to leave my brother because she had become very ill....developed severe auto-immune disease due to the stress she was under. She wouldn't do it...she VOWED to be by his side until death...hers or his.

All of us here know cf to be bad...well I would choose cf over suicidal depression any day of the week. Mental illness is like nothing I have ever seen...it tore my family to shreds. I know that I speak out of turn at times...even though I try not to.
I can say with a 100% certainty, love did not cure my brother....neither did modern medicine. No bond can survive something like that if the other person is too ill to be a part of it. This is very different than cf. We try to stay healthy for ourselves and for our spouses. <b>In this case, you have one person willing another person to want to be alive. </b> She fought for 10 years and in the end, my brothers demons won.

My sister in law struggles with her feelings everyday. She constantly tells me she wasn't finished fighting for my brother to be healthy again. I have never seen someone hold onto her vows so strongly.....

Frogprincess-
I am sorry we hijacked your post. You are in my prayers.
 
L

LisaV

New member
I'm sorry we hijacked your post too, frogprincess.

I am struck by dramamama's phrase <b>willing another person to want to be alive</b> . Yes, that's what it is like (been there, done that ) - and even the strongest family member with the strongest will power can't do that. Finally, you have to let go and hope to the gods that you both float. What's that old saying "Let go or get dragged"?

As long as your partner is asking for help, frogprincess, you are not in the place that dramamama and I are thinking about. Even so I hope you can communicate to his docs what you see and how you feel and get as much help for him and you as you can. The psychological illnesses can drain like no other.

Keeping you in my heart.
 
L

LisaV

New member
I'm sorry we hijacked your post too, frogprincess.

I am struck by dramamama's phrase <b>willing another person to want to be alive</b> . Yes, that's what it is like (been there, done that ) - and even the strongest family member with the strongest will power can't do that. Finally, you have to let go and hope to the gods that you both float. What's that old saying "Let go or get dragged"?

As long as your partner is asking for help, frogprincess, you are not in the place that dramamama and I are thinking about. Even so I hope you can communicate to his docs what you see and how you feel and get as much help for him and you as you can. The psychological illnesses can drain like no other.

Keeping you in my heart.
 
L

LisaV

New member
I'm sorry we hijacked your post too, frogprincess.

I am struck by dramamama's phrase <b>willing another person to want to be alive</b> . Yes, that's what it is like (been there, done that ) - and even the strongest family member with the strongest will power can't do that. Finally, you have to let go and hope to the gods that you both float. What's that old saying "Let go or get dragged"?

As long as your partner is asking for help, frogprincess, you are not in the place that dramamama and I are thinking about. Even so I hope you can communicate to his docs what you see and how you feel and get as much help for him and you as you can. The psychological illnesses can drain like no other.

Keeping you in my heart.
 
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