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Debating to have a 2nd child??
- Thread starter anonymous
- Start date
Emily65Roses
New member
I concur with what Coll said. I can't really believe in a god that allows for as much suffering and all that junk that there is. I know people have their reasons to explain away this reason of mine, but I don't care. In the end, I have more reasons beyond what Coll said not to believe in a god. I won't get into them because that's not important. CF, when it comes down to it, has nothing to do with any kind of god. And I realize this is simply my opinion. But whether or not you believe in a god, this part is proven concrete fact : People that have CF have it because each of their parents carried the gene. It's science.
Emily65Roses
New member
I concur with what Coll said. I can't really believe in a god that allows for as much suffering and all that junk that there is. I know people have their reasons to explain away this reason of mine, but I don't care. In the end, I have more reasons beyond what Coll said not to believe in a god. I won't get into them because that's not important. CF, when it comes down to it, has nothing to do with any kind of god. And I realize this is simply my opinion. But whether or not you believe in a god, this part is proven concrete fact : People that have CF have it because each of their parents carried the gene. It's science.
if that was true (that we are being punished for adam and eves mistakes) that would make god vindictive. which he cannot be, according to testement, and therefore if he IS vindictive he cannot exist.
i like an argument by Nitzsche, which uses the concept of suffering to explain why he believes god cannot exist.
christian readings state that God is omnipotent (all powerful) omniscient (all knowing) and all good (cant remember the word!)
FACT: there is suffering in the world.
so that leaves one of 3 options.
1) God does not know there is suffering. therefore he is not omniscient and therefore cannot exist
2) God knows there is suffering but cannot do anything about it. therefore he is not omnipotent therefore he cannot exist
3) God knows there is suffering but refuses to do anything about it. therefore he is not all good (he is vindictive or otherwise) and therefore he cannot exist.
this is not a slight on peoples beliefs, it is a theory by a famous philosopher that i find very interesting. would be interested to hear what others think <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0">
i like an argument by Nitzsche, which uses the concept of suffering to explain why he believes god cannot exist.
christian readings state that God is omnipotent (all powerful) omniscient (all knowing) and all good (cant remember the word!)
FACT: there is suffering in the world.
so that leaves one of 3 options.
1) God does not know there is suffering. therefore he is not omniscient and therefore cannot exist
2) God knows there is suffering but cannot do anything about it. therefore he is not omnipotent therefore he cannot exist
3) God knows there is suffering but refuses to do anything about it. therefore he is not all good (he is vindictive or otherwise) and therefore he cannot exist.
this is not a slight on peoples beliefs, it is a theory by a famous philosopher that i find very interesting. would be interested to hear what others think <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0">
if that was true (that we are being punished for adam and eves mistakes) that would make god vindictive. which he cannot be, according to testement, and therefore if he IS vindictive he cannot exist.
i like an argument by Nitzsche, which uses the concept of suffering to explain why he believes god cannot exist.
christian readings state that God is omnipotent (all powerful) omniscient (all knowing) and all good (cant remember the word!)
FACT: there is suffering in the world.
so that leaves one of 3 options.
1) God does not know there is suffering. therefore he is not omniscient and therefore cannot exist
2) God knows there is suffering but cannot do anything about it. therefore he is not omnipotent therefore he cannot exist
3) God knows there is suffering but refuses to do anything about it. therefore he is not all good (he is vindictive or otherwise) and therefore he cannot exist.
this is not a slight on peoples beliefs, it is a theory by a famous philosopher that i find very interesting. would be interested to hear what others think <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0">
i like an argument by Nitzsche, which uses the concept of suffering to explain why he believes god cannot exist.
christian readings state that God is omnipotent (all powerful) omniscient (all knowing) and all good (cant remember the word!)
FACT: there is suffering in the world.
so that leaves one of 3 options.
1) God does not know there is suffering. therefore he is not omniscient and therefore cannot exist
2) God knows there is suffering but cannot do anything about it. therefore he is not omnipotent therefore he cannot exist
3) God knows there is suffering but refuses to do anything about it. therefore he is not all good (he is vindictive or otherwise) and therefore he cannot exist.
this is not a slight on peoples beliefs, it is a theory by a famous philosopher that i find very interesting. would be interested to hear what others think <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0">
NoDayButToday
New member
I actually didn't even remember what I said, so at first I was confused by Emily agreeing with me LOL.
I never bought into original sin, not even thinking about it in relation to CF. I just thought it was so ridiculous that a baby who died before being baptized would sit in Hell or Purgatory because of their original sin. When my life is going well, healthwise and otherwise, I think about God and start to think 'Hey maybe He does exist, He's doing these good things for me'. But then, it seems He knocks me down health wise, and decides 'Let's put her out of school for a month or two this time'. It's like, knocking me down isn't enough, I have to be kicked repeatedly by Him (hey lets have it take 12 tries to get an IV started, just because I can do that, I imagine Him thinking). I doubt God during times like these.
I suppose I'm agnostic. When I think about God and his omnipotent, omniscient and all loving ways, I always sort of come back to death, namely untimely deaths. Like on September 11th, people in the prime of their lives were senselessly killed. Or this past June, when a 22 year old girl I knew died of CF. Regardless of the pain the dead suffered, the pain their deaths caused those left behind is reason enough to doubt a God.
Everyone has a right to their beliefs, and for them to be respected, so I hope this thread remains rather peaceful and does not become a confrontation again.
I never bought into original sin, not even thinking about it in relation to CF. I just thought it was so ridiculous that a baby who died before being baptized would sit in Hell or Purgatory because of their original sin. When my life is going well, healthwise and otherwise, I think about God and start to think 'Hey maybe He does exist, He's doing these good things for me'. But then, it seems He knocks me down health wise, and decides 'Let's put her out of school for a month or two this time'. It's like, knocking me down isn't enough, I have to be kicked repeatedly by Him (hey lets have it take 12 tries to get an IV started, just because I can do that, I imagine Him thinking). I doubt God during times like these.
I suppose I'm agnostic. When I think about God and his omnipotent, omniscient and all loving ways, I always sort of come back to death, namely untimely deaths. Like on September 11th, people in the prime of their lives were senselessly killed. Or this past June, when a 22 year old girl I knew died of CF. Regardless of the pain the dead suffered, the pain their deaths caused those left behind is reason enough to doubt a God.
Everyone has a right to their beliefs, and for them to be respected, so I hope this thread remains rather peaceful and does not become a confrontation again.
NoDayButToday
New member
I actually didn't even remember what I said, so at first I was confused by Emily agreeing with me LOL.
I never bought into original sin, not even thinking about it in relation to CF. I just thought it was so ridiculous that a baby who died before being baptized would sit in Hell or Purgatory because of their original sin. When my life is going well, healthwise and otherwise, I think about God and start to think 'Hey maybe He does exist, He's doing these good things for me'. But then, it seems He knocks me down health wise, and decides 'Let's put her out of school for a month or two this time'. It's like, knocking me down isn't enough, I have to be kicked repeatedly by Him (hey lets have it take 12 tries to get an IV started, just because I can do that, I imagine Him thinking). I doubt God during times like these.
I suppose I'm agnostic. When I think about God and his omnipotent, omniscient and all loving ways, I always sort of come back to death, namely untimely deaths. Like on September 11th, people in the prime of their lives were senselessly killed. Or this past June, when a 22 year old girl I knew died of CF. Regardless of the pain the dead suffered, the pain their deaths caused those left behind is reason enough to doubt a God.
Everyone has a right to their beliefs, and for them to be respected, so I hope this thread remains rather peaceful and does not become a confrontation again.
I never bought into original sin, not even thinking about it in relation to CF. I just thought it was so ridiculous that a baby who died before being baptized would sit in Hell or Purgatory because of their original sin. When my life is going well, healthwise and otherwise, I think about God and start to think 'Hey maybe He does exist, He's doing these good things for me'. But then, it seems He knocks me down health wise, and decides 'Let's put her out of school for a month or two this time'. It's like, knocking me down isn't enough, I have to be kicked repeatedly by Him (hey lets have it take 12 tries to get an IV started, just because I can do that, I imagine Him thinking). I doubt God during times like these.
I suppose I'm agnostic. When I think about God and his omnipotent, omniscient and all loving ways, I always sort of come back to death, namely untimely deaths. Like on September 11th, people in the prime of their lives were senselessly killed. Or this past June, when a 22 year old girl I knew died of CF. Regardless of the pain the dead suffered, the pain their deaths caused those left behind is reason enough to doubt a God.
Everyone has a right to their beliefs, and for them to be respected, so I hope this thread remains rather peaceful and does not become a confrontation again.
To whom this may concern:
I know it's a hard decission but having another child is not for everyone. I am a mother of child with CF and waited until he was six years old before deciding to have another child. I, too, was scared and worried that I was going to have not one but two children with CF and if I almost lost it with the first how was I going to deal with it if I had a second? The truth is, you never really know what you're going to have until you hold that child in your arms. They could do an amnio but that's only to determine what you want to do at the time. I won't even venture there. It is a hard decision but one only you and your husband can make. If you feel strongly about wanting another child maybe you should set up some time to speak to a gene specialist. Yes, all they will probably tell you is what you already know. You have a 25% chance of having another child with CF but in the end none of us are promised to live forever. I say, Live and Lovingly while you can. If you are meant to have another child it will happen no matter what. May God Bless you.
I know it's a hard decission but having another child is not for everyone. I am a mother of child with CF and waited until he was six years old before deciding to have another child. I, too, was scared and worried that I was going to have not one but two children with CF and if I almost lost it with the first how was I going to deal with it if I had a second? The truth is, you never really know what you're going to have until you hold that child in your arms. They could do an amnio but that's only to determine what you want to do at the time. I won't even venture there. It is a hard decision but one only you and your husband can make. If you feel strongly about wanting another child maybe you should set up some time to speak to a gene specialist. Yes, all they will probably tell you is what you already know. You have a 25% chance of having another child with CF but in the end none of us are promised to live forever. I say, Live and Lovingly while you can. If you are meant to have another child it will happen no matter what. May God Bless you.
Dear Dave 29/cf
You sound like you've given up. I hope I've interpreted wrong because I am a mother with a child and he has CF. No matter what kind of life you are living, is it not life in the end? It's what you do in your lifetime, no matter what, that counts. Cheer up, I've sent some prayers your way, one of them being from my son who's 8 years old.
You sound like you've given up. I hope I've interpreted wrong because I am a mother with a child and he has CF. No matter what kind of life you are living, is it not life in the end? It's what you do in your lifetime, no matter what, that counts. Cheer up, I've sent some prayers your way, one of them being from my son who's 8 years old.
Dave,
Whether you believe it or not, a child is a gift from God. A child, no matter the disease or disability, is precious. I'm sure your mother thought or thinks that of you. It is the right of every humand being to want to procreate no matter the situation. I understand your opposition because of your position and you have every right to feel that way. I'm sorry you to read that you've had such a hard time. My heart breaks for you, believe me. I will not say that I have CF or that I am a parent of CF because I do not want you to judge me from that information. I will state this, it has been my experience that you learn to love what or who needs to be loved in whatever time you have with eachother. Not everyone is comfortable in handling this disease alone. I understand when some people state they would like to think when they are passed on their loved ones with this illness still has family and friends support - not financial by any means - and loving care. I mean, what visitations and phone calls and wishing well cards can do to boost someones spirits. You should know better than anyone how lonely it can be in the hospital. You should know how cold and unfeeling it can be at night for a child in a hospital. You should know how scary it can be, right? I guess we can argue this topic over and over again. I won't say I'm not trying to change your opinion. In a way, I felt it was disheartening to other readers but I guess If I don't like what I'm reading I should quit. I can't help but state again that your outlook on life for CF'ers makes it look so dark. This is why to you and Kylie, I try to stress that some, not all, CF'ers need siblings for that extra support and love. It's good to have family around. I do wish you well.
Tuc., Az.
Whether you believe it or not, a child is a gift from God. A child, no matter the disease or disability, is precious. I'm sure your mother thought or thinks that of you. It is the right of every humand being to want to procreate no matter the situation. I understand your opposition because of your position and you have every right to feel that way. I'm sorry you to read that you've had such a hard time. My heart breaks for you, believe me. I will not say that I have CF or that I am a parent of CF because I do not want you to judge me from that information. I will state this, it has been my experience that you learn to love what or who needs to be loved in whatever time you have with eachother. Not everyone is comfortable in handling this disease alone. I understand when some people state they would like to think when they are passed on their loved ones with this illness still has family and friends support - not financial by any means - and loving care. I mean, what visitations and phone calls and wishing well cards can do to boost someones spirits. You should know better than anyone how lonely it can be in the hospital. You should know how cold and unfeeling it can be at night for a child in a hospital. You should know how scary it can be, right? I guess we can argue this topic over and over again. I won't say I'm not trying to change your opinion. In a way, I felt it was disheartening to other readers but I guess If I don't like what I'm reading I should quit. I can't help but state again that your outlook on life for CF'ers makes it look so dark. This is why to you and Kylie, I try to stress that some, not all, CF'ers need siblings for that extra support and love. It's good to have family around. I do wish you well.
Tuc., Az.
ok, well i didn't read all 5 pages of this so i apologize if i'm repeating things, BUT...
i am a 21 yr old w/ cf,diagnosed at age 8 months.
i have two little sisters, ages 16 and 14, no CF. if my parents had chosen to stop with me, my sisters wouldn't be here.
it's a 25% chance. even if my sisters had both turned out to have cf, i would still be glad that my parents had them!
i guess i'm a believer of the "it's better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all" mantra.
personally? i think i may have been a little hurt if my parents chose not to have any more kids, b/c i would have felt like i was such a big burden and source of sadness that they couldn't bear to do it again.
CF SUCKS! however, there ARE worse things to be born with. does that mean people should just stop having kids all together just in case they are born with an illness???
and i intend to have children (or a child, depending on my health) of my own. i would be willing to bet that more parents die from cancer everyday than from CF. i'm also incredibly hopeful about my future and the advances in medicine that are being made.
so that's my 2 cents. hope i didn't offend anyone too badly, as that was not my purpose <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0">.
i am a 21 yr old w/ cf,diagnosed at age 8 months.
i have two little sisters, ages 16 and 14, no CF. if my parents had chosen to stop with me, my sisters wouldn't be here.
it's a 25% chance. even if my sisters had both turned out to have cf, i would still be glad that my parents had them!
i guess i'm a believer of the "it's better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all" mantra.
personally? i think i may have been a little hurt if my parents chose not to have any more kids, b/c i would have felt like i was such a big burden and source of sadness that they couldn't bear to do it again.
CF SUCKS! however, there ARE worse things to be born with. does that mean people should just stop having kids all together just in case they are born with an illness???
and i intend to have children (or a child, depending on my health) of my own. i would be willing to bet that more parents die from cancer everyday than from CF. i'm also incredibly hopeful about my future and the advances in medicine that are being made.
so that's my 2 cents. hope i didn't offend anyone too badly, as that was not my purpose <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0">.
ummm kylie look-
i have no issue with you or anyone else on the board b/c i believe that everyone has the right to his/her own opinion...
but that last post is obviously making fun of or looking down on someone or some group, and since mine was the last post before yours, i'm kind of taking offense.
if you have a problem with something that someone said, explain that. don't just make fun of them with some sort of australian inside joke, that's just rude.
i have no issue with you or anyone else on the board b/c i believe that everyone has the right to his/her own opinion...
but that last post is obviously making fun of or looking down on someone or some group, and since mine was the last post before yours, i'm kind of taking offense.
if you have a problem with something that someone said, explain that. don't just make fun of them with some sort of australian inside joke, that's just rude.
Two the last two people who directed thier replies at me,
which one of my messages are you replying to, there are 5 pages on this thread.
Why would you say that I "sound like I am giving up"? You don't know anything about me.
P.S. If you are going to single me out don't be afraid to put your name to it.
Dave 29 w/cf and not giving up.
which one of my messages are you replying to, there are 5 pages on this thread.
Why would you say that I "sound like I am giving up"? You don't know anything about me.
P.S. If you are going to single me out don't be afraid to put your name to it.
Dave 29 w/cf and not giving up.
As a mom of one without cf and another with I will say that if my husband and I choose to have more children it will be via adpotion or PGD. I could not possibly think of taking the 1 in 4 chance of bringing another child into this world with CF. It totally sucks and I would never forgive myself if I had another child with CF. Just my opinion. There should be univeral options for having the CF carrier testing donw PRIOR to pregancy. I think it stinks that MD's don't suggest it b/c they are afraid they will not be paid for the service if insurance does not cover the procedure (yes - I think that is a BIG part of it). This is just my opinion. Thank you
ok how do i word this without stirring anyone up. i am not directing that post at you. it is not an in joke[ in fact its not a joke at all], EVERYONE knows australians are not big on religion and the people who are religious dont let it consume their lives. im chuckling because im glad that i dont have to deal with religious bickering around me [a la this thread that has turned into a religious debate of some sort].