General Debate

[ReneeP]

Very interesting topic and one I can easily see being successfully argued from both sides. One of the problems is that even seemingly normal, stable people aren't always what they appear...for example:

I have a co-worker who has 2 sons, ages 24 & 25. Both live at home and neither have jobs (and they do not have any health poblems.) I have only been at this job for 2 months and in that time each one of her sons has totalled an automobile which belonged to her (both were drunk when they wrecked).. both have been arrested for DWI's 2 times each (not to mention several times before I knew her). Neither go to school... One did for 3 semesters and flunked all 3. The list goes on and on.

Both the parents are successful in their careers and they have plenty of money...they seem like logical people... they just don't know how to raise kids. I sit at work every single day and listen to her groan about them. Every day she is transferring money into their accounts for them to eat...sometimes even calling and ordering pizza and paying for it over the phone so they will deliver it to them at home while she's at work.

The other day I said I needed to take Wednesday afternoon off to take Kaitlyn for a dr appt. The co-worker said that she had already asked for that day off because her son has to go to court for his latest DWI and she is NOT letting him go by himself so I would have to reschedule Kaitlyn's appt. So in a nutshell, I had to reschedule my 12 year old daughter's doctor appt so that she could hold her 25 year old son's hand in court for his latest DWI.

My point is that this couple would easily have passed a screening for having children... yet they totally suck as parents... and there would be people who would be very good parents but aren't as financially stable who may be denied the right to parent... it's a great thought...but an impractical solution to a very big problem. Not that I have a better one to offer :-( Sure wish I did!

 

[ReneeP]

Very interesting topic and one I can easily see being successfully argued from both sides. One of the problems is that even seemingly normal, stable people aren't always what they appear...for example:

I have a co-worker who has 2 sons, ages 24 & 25. Both live at home and neither have jobs (and they do not have any health poblems.) I have only been at this job for 2 months and in that time each one of her sons has totalled an automobile which belonged to her (both were drunk when they wrecked).. both have been arrested for DWI's 2 times each (not to mention several times before I knew her). Neither go to school... One did for 3 semesters and flunked all 3. The list goes on and on.

Both the parents are successful in their careers and they have plenty of money...they seem like logical people... they just don't know how to raise kids. I sit at work every single day and listen to her groan about them. Every day she is transferring money into their accounts for them to eat...sometimes even calling and ordering pizza and paying for it over the phone so they will deliver it to them at home while she's at work.

The other day I said I needed to take Wednesday afternoon off to take Kaitlyn for a dr appt. The co-worker said that she had already asked for that day off because her son has to go to court for his latest DWI and she is NOT letting him go by himself so I would have to reschedule Kaitlyn's appt. So in a nutshell, I had to reschedule my 12 year old daughter's doctor appt so that she could hold her 25 year old son's hand in court for his latest DWI.

My point is that this couple would easily have passed a screening for having children... yet they totally suck as parents... and there would be people who would be very good parents but aren't as financially stable who may be denied the right to parent... it's a great thought...but an impractical solution to a very big problem. Not that I have a better one to offer :-( Sure wish I did!

 

[Emily65Roses]

Successful doesn't equal good parent. If we had such a thing, I hope it wouldn't have just a "screening," but also some kind of social work evaluation. If a sw eval was included, a lot less people would get through as "good parents" unless they actually were.

Not sure if this was entirely clear. Basically, there would have to be more than one aspect that is tested. They'd have to look at finances, at emotional issues, at responsibility, etc. If they looked at all of those instead of just "do you have a job, do you have money" less people would get through and be crappy parents. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0">

 

[Emily65Roses]

Successful doesn't equal good parent. If we had such a thing, I hope it wouldn't have just a "screening," but also some kind of social work evaluation. If a sw eval was included, a lot less people would get through as "good parents" unless they actually were.

Not sure if this was entirely clear. Basically, there would have to be more than one aspect that is tested. They'd have to look at finances, at emotional issues, at responsibility, etc. If they looked at all of those instead of just "do you have a job, do you have money" less people would get through and be crappy parents. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0">

 

[Emily65Roses]

Successful doesn't equal good parent. If we had such a thing, I hope it wouldn't have just a "screening," but also some kind of social work evaluation. If a sw eval was included, a lot less people would get through as "good parents" unless they actually were.

Not sure if this was entirely clear. Basically, there would have to be more than one aspect that is tested. They'd have to look at finances, at emotional issues, at responsibility, etc. If they looked at all of those instead of just "do you have a job, do you have money" less people would get through and be crappy parents. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0">

 

[kswitch]

ok, i know that there are too many bad parents (no single factor denotes a parent as bad or good, mind you), and i we certainly will need to do something to control our ballooning population; so i think my position on this topic is pretty transparent.

so what i have to offer is this:

if we were to license parenting, it would probably be more in the form of licensing the children, much like we do pets. only with children, the parent(s) would be subject to citations and restrictions on their licenses. a license can be obtained at any time in a child's life, and you would need multiple lisenses for multiple children.

before obtaining a child lisence, a parent will probably need to obtain a parenting permit or certification. this would probably involve a class and a test.

certified parents would have to apply for a liscense. once approved, this liscense would have to be maintained through a child lisence renewal hearing every few years. violations would result in suspensions or revokations of parenting liscenses. too many unresolved citiations or disruptions would result in the an intervention by a dhs type of institution. too many interventions may result in seperation and/or sterilization.

also, unlicensed children would not be eligible for government support, not able to be included as a legal member of the family, and unable to be claimed as a dependent.

just for clarity's sake, this is not necessarily my personal views on the matter. i think we need to do something to curb overpopulation and avoid the idiocracy syndrome, but whether this is the right answer or not..well i'm torn on that. regardless, if it were to happen in the foreseeable future, this is what i believe it might look like.

 

[kswitch]

ok, i know that there are too many bad parents (no single factor denotes a parent as bad or good, mind you), and i we certainly will need to do something to control our ballooning population; so i think my position on this topic is pretty transparent.

so what i have to offer is this:

if we were to license parenting, it would probably be more in the form of licensing the children, much like we do pets. only with children, the parent(s) would be subject to citations and restrictions on their licenses. a license can be obtained at any time in a child's life, and you would need multiple lisenses for multiple children.

before obtaining a child lisence, a parent will probably need to obtain a parenting permit or certification. this would probably involve a class and a test.

certified parents would have to apply for a liscense. once approved, this liscense would have to be maintained through a child lisence renewal hearing every few years. violations would result in suspensions or revokations of parenting liscenses. too many unresolved citiations or disruptions would result in the an intervention by a dhs type of institution. too many interventions may result in seperation and/or sterilization.

also, unlicensed children would not be eligible for government support, not able to be included as a legal member of the family, and unable to be claimed as a dependent.

just for clarity's sake, this is not necessarily my personal views on the matter. i think we need to do something to curb overpopulation and avoid the idiocracy syndrome, but whether this is the right answer or not..well i'm torn on that. regardless, if it were to happen in the foreseeable future, this is what i believe it might look like.

 

[kswitch]

ok, i know that there are too many bad parents (no single factor denotes a parent as bad or good, mind you), and i we certainly will need to do something to control our ballooning population; so i think my position on this topic is pretty transparent.

so what i have to offer is this:

if we were to license parenting, it would probably be more in the form of licensing the children, much like we do pets. only with children, the parent(s) would be subject to citations and restrictions on their licenses. a license can be obtained at any time in a child's life, and you would need multiple lisenses for multiple children.

before obtaining a child lisence, a parent will probably need to obtain a parenting permit or certification. this would probably involve a class and a test.

certified parents would have to apply for a liscense. once approved, this liscense would have to be maintained through a child lisence renewal hearing every few years. violations would result in suspensions or revokations of parenting liscenses. too many unresolved citiations or disruptions would result in the an intervention by a dhs type of institution. too many interventions may result in seperation and/or sterilization.

also, unlicensed children would not be eligible for government support, not able to be included as a legal member of the family, and unable to be claimed as a dependent.

just for clarity's sake, this is not necessarily my personal views on the matter. i think we need to do something to curb overpopulation and avoid the idiocracy syndrome, but whether this is the right answer or not..well i'm torn on that. regardless, if it were to happen in the foreseeable future, this is what i believe it might look like.

 

[dyza]

We have something similar to what Kswitch is saying here in the UK ( and this time I am not joking around ). It is called an ASBO, anti-social behaviour order, it can be applied to anybody, not just kids. Basically works as you stay out of further trouble or suffer the consequencies.
We recently had a teenager here in our town who was on an ASBO, he shot someone with an air-rifle and went straight to jail.
There is also talk of fining parents for their childrens mis-demeaners

 

[dyza]

We have something similar to what Kswitch is saying here in the UK ( and this time I am not joking around ). It is called an ASBO, anti-social behaviour order, it can be applied to anybody, not just kids. Basically works as you stay out of further trouble or suffer the consequencies.
We recently had a teenager here in our town who was on an ASBO, he shot someone with an air-rifle and went straight to jail.
There is also talk of fining parents for their childrens mis-demeaners

 

[dyza]

We have something similar to what Kswitch is saying here in the UK ( and this time I am not joking around ). It is called an ASBO, anti-social behaviour order, it can be applied to anybody, not just kids. Basically works as you stay out of further trouble or suffer the consequencies.
We recently had a teenager here in our town who was on an ASBO, he shot someone with an air-rifle and went straight to jail.
There is also talk of fining parents for their childrens mis-demeaners

 

[Lilith]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>Emily65Roses</b></i>

They'd have to look at...emotional issues, at responsibility, etc. If they looked at all of those instead of just "do you have a job, do you have money" less people would get through and be crappy parents. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0"></end quote></div>

I think a criminal profiler would be great for that. Or someone along the same lines, with extensive knowlege of psycology and the human psyche. Not really a shrink, but someone who can look at someone's behavioral patternes and habits and decide if they would have the presence of mind, and responsibility, to be a parent.

 

[Lilith]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>Emily65Roses</b></i>

They'd have to look at...emotional issues, at responsibility, etc. If they looked at all of those instead of just "do you have a job, do you have money" less people would get through and be crappy parents. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0"></end quote></div>

I think a criminal profiler would be great for that. Or someone along the same lines, with extensive knowlege of psycology and the human psyche. Not really a shrink, but someone who can look at someone's behavioral patternes and habits and decide if they would have the presence of mind, and responsibility, to be a parent.

 

[Lilith]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>Emily65Roses</b></i>

They'd have to look at...emotional issues, at responsibility, etc. If they looked at all of those instead of just "do you have a job, do you have money" less people would get through and be crappy parents. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0"></end quote></div>

I think a criminal profiler would be great for that. Or someone along the same lines, with extensive knowlege of psycology and the human psyche. Not really a shrink, but someone who can look at someone's behavioral patternes and habits and decide if they would have the presence of mind, and responsibility, to be a parent.

 

[welshgirl]

i personally think this whole thread is a crock of shite.!!!!!!!!!

there in no need to licence parents at all.

in the uk if parents are useless either by being neglectful or abusive their children are taken off them and put into care which will often end up with the children being adopted at a later stage . this is where the whole thing falls apart . no one seems to want to adopt older children or ones with disabilities.they all seem to want babies!!!!!!!!!!!

the whole licence "thing" is totally unworkable and a little bit nazi too !!!!!

just how many parents do you all think are doing a bad job anyway.?????

someone posted "most" the other day. do you really think 80 - 90 % of parents are useless?? <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif" border="0">

 

[welshgirl]

i personally think this whole thread is a crock of shite.!!!!!!!!!

there in no need to licence parents at all.

in the uk if parents are useless either by being neglectful or abusive their children are taken off them and put into care which will often end up with the children being adopted at a later stage . this is where the whole thing falls apart . no one seems to want to adopt older children or ones with disabilities.they all seem to want babies!!!!!!!!!!!

the whole licence "thing" is totally unworkable and a little bit nazi too !!!!!

just how many parents do you all think are doing a bad job anyway.?????

someone posted "most" the other day. do you really think 80 - 90 % of parents are useless?? <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif" border="0">

 

[welshgirl]

i personally think this whole thread is a crock of shite.!!!!!!!!!

there in no need to licence parents at all.

in the uk if parents are useless either by being neglectful or abusive their children are taken off them and put into care which will often end up with the children being adopted at a later stage . this is where the whole thing falls apart . no one seems to want to adopt older children or ones with disabilities.they all seem to want babies!!!!!!!!!!!

the whole licence "thing" is totally unworkable and a little bit nazi too !!!!!

just how many parents do you all think are doing a bad job anyway.?????

someone posted "most" the other day. do you really think 80 - 90 % of parents are useless?? <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif" border="0">

 

[Lilith]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>welshgirl</b></i>

i personally think this whole thread is a crock of shite.!!!!!!!!!</end quote></div>

Then why are you reading it?

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>the whole licence "thing" is totally unworkable and a little bit nazi too !!!!!</end quote></div>

Never said it was workable. This is a "discussion", not a movement for legislation. And why do people love to throw the word "nazi" around so much?

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>someone posted "most" the other day. do you really think 80 - 90 % of parents are useless??</end quote></div>

Yeah, actually, I do. Well, alright...maybe more like 70%. Just about every friend I have comes from a relationship where the parents don't give a damn or are never around. And I know a lot of people. Plus I have observed parents and their children in public. The majority of people will sit there and let their kid throw a tantrum, with no reguard for anyone else the child is disturbing, and completely ignore the kid like they don't exist. There are very few parents anymore who are fit to raise children, and each generation keeps getting worse because of it. It's very apparent.

Now, this is the second time you've posted just to say you hate this thread. If you don't agree with it, you don't have to read it. Very simple. No one is twisting your arm.

 

[Lilith]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>welshgirl</b></i>

i personally think this whole thread is a crock of shite.!!!!!!!!!</end quote></div>

Then why are you reading it?

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>the whole licence "thing" is totally unworkable and a little bit nazi too !!!!!</end quote></div>

Never said it was workable. This is a "discussion", not a movement for legislation. And why do people love to throw the word "nazi" around so much?

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>someone posted "most" the other day. do you really think 80 - 90 % of parents are useless??</end quote></div>

Yeah, actually, I do. Well, alright...maybe more like 70%. Just about every friend I have comes from a relationship where the parents don't give a damn or are never around. And I know a lot of people. Plus I have observed parents and their children in public. The majority of people will sit there and let their kid throw a tantrum, with no reguard for anyone else the child is disturbing, and completely ignore the kid like they don't exist. There are very few parents anymore who are fit to raise children, and each generation keeps getting worse because of it. It's very apparent.

Now, this is the second time you've posted just to say you hate this thread. If you don't agree with it, you don't have to read it. Very simple. No one is twisting your arm.

 

[Lilith]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>welshgirl</b></i>

i personally think this whole thread is a crock of shite.!!!!!!!!!</end quote></div>

Then why are you reading it?

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>the whole licence "thing" is totally unworkable and a little bit nazi too !!!!!</end quote></div>

Never said it was workable. This is a "discussion", not a movement for legislation. And why do people love to throw the word "nazi" around so much?

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>someone posted "most" the other day. do you really think 80 - 90 % of parents are useless??</end quote></div>

Yeah, actually, I do. Well, alright...maybe more like 70%. Just about every friend I have comes from a relationship where the parents don't give a damn or are never around. And I know a lot of people. Plus I have observed parents and their children in public. The majority of people will sit there and let their kid throw a tantrum, with no reguard for anyone else the child is disturbing, and completely ignore the kid like they don't exist. There are very few parents anymore who are fit to raise children, and each generation keeps getting worse because of it. It's very apparent.

Now, this is the second time you've posted just to say you hate this thread. If you don't agree with it, you don't have to read it. Very simple. No one is twisting your arm.