Having more children?

[anonymous]

You post some interesting points, and I am glad to hear that you are stisified with your explanations on this topic. However, you are entitled to your opinion and everybody else is entitled to theirs, so we just won't agree. But yes, I do have to say that I think gender does make a bit of a difference here. No, it does not make reckless and irresponsible behavior ok (as you call it) but I see this as anything but reckless and irresponsible behavior. More babies are born with downs syndrome every day than are babies with CF. It is nobody's fault in either situation, are those downs babies' parents "reckless and irrespoinsible"-I surely don't think so.

Of course every parent wants to give every child every possible advantage in life, but regardless of how much planning and protection occures, there are still no guarantess. I believe there is a reason that everything happens in life, regardless if it is something big or something small and not even noticed. Ultimately there wil be consequesnces and decisions we have to face for our actions, or lackthereof, but it is not your position to judge these parents because of their decisions. They will have to raise the child with CF, not you.

And I didn't mean imply that your "relationship" with CF had anything to do with the validity of your posting, I was just curious as to why you seem to feel so strongly about some specific issues.

Julie (wife to Mark 24 w/CF)

 

[WinAce]

<i>"The risk of having a child with Down syndrome is 1/1,300 for a 25-year-old woman; at age 35, the risk increases to 1/365. At age 45, the risk of a having a child with Down syndrome increases to 1/30."</i>
(<a href="http://www.aafp.org/afp/20000815/825.html">Down Syndrome: Prenatal Risk Assessment and Diagnosis</a>)

Certainly not something to ignore, but no contest compared with two CF carriers having children. That's closer--in order of magnitude--to the risks that <i>any</i> pregnancy will face, so you'd be on more equal ethical footing with any other parent. Personally, I'd <i>only</i> have a kid if I could give it a ton of advantages from the get-go over its peers, and not particularly handicap it on any front, so even that risk would weigh heavily on my mind; I can understand others having kids if they can give them a reasonable <i>mix</i> of starting material, good and bad, though. Were the risk as high, yes, I'd consider it reckless. But I suppose that's a discussion for a Down's syndrome board.

 

[anonymous]

WinAce
I really feel sorry for you and you're hardened heart.

 

[anonymous]

WinAce, I think your website seems to sum you up pretty well:


<a target=new class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://users.rcn.com/rostmd/winace/
">http://users.rcn.com/rostmd/winace/
</a>
Hello there! You've reached the homepage of WinAce, sarcastic jackass and hardcore skeptic extraordinaire. You may, of course, already be familiar with the nick, assuming you've had your rear handed back to you on a gilded platter by one of my posts in topics relating to theism, evolution, or the paranormal.

You really have the world figured out huh?

 

[anonymous]

WinAce,

I must say that I feel relieved that you are against procreation for somebody in your situation-at least thats what all your posts seem to lead me to believe. I would really hate to meet you, or any of your offspring. It's people like you that create depression around the world. And yes, yes, I see it coming, "people are responsible for their actions, reactions or lack thereof..." blah blah blah. But people are effected by the situations around them, regardless.

I think it is mighty appropriate of how you have previoulsy stated your beliefs on this site (religion and such as well). This is probably the worst thing I have ever said on this site, but it's because of you and people like you that I believe in hell and that people like you go there.


Julie (wife to Mark 24 w/CF)

 

[WinAce]

<blockquote>Quote
<hr><i>Originally posted by: <b>Anonymous</b></i>
WinAce
I really feel sorry for you and you're hardened heart.<hr></blockquote>

Relax, the echocardiogram was quite normal. But thanks for the concern!

Julie, <i>I'm</i> not the one potentially contributing to more people with deadly illnesses being born. If there's <i>anything</i> that can cause depression better, I can't think of it (at the moment, anyway). And if we're going to go down that route, I don't hold high opinions of those who believe in Hell. In my view, the only ways you can hold such a belief are naivete--not giving the issue much thought; or being a sociopath--someone who isn't put off, and led to questioning, by the idea of a "loving" God eternally torturing others. Unlike you, I won't immediately assume the worst, so naivete--combined with heated emotions--it is. Feel free to prove me wrong, though.

 

[anonymous]

WinAcem,
I think what you are failing to realize here is this; you suggest that becoming pregnant knowing that you have a %25 chance of having a baby with an illness is wrong and reckless even thought the odds are %75 chance the baby will not have CF because the child could be sick. The alternative to this is not giving life to that child AT ALL. So your simple mind concludes that 'no life is better than a sick life' correct? How can this be? Are you saying you would give up all of this, everything for nothing? How sad. I'm sorry your life is that bad. My step sons life is nothing like that. I wish you had a better life, but I feel for someone like you, I don't think you would be satisfied with a healthy life either. I have been healthy all of my life, but as a child I did suffer with unexplained depression and I had suicidal thoughts, alot. I have overcome this with therapy and drugs in adulthood, but there were many times I wished I wasn't here.
Its just your opinion that a sick life is not worth living, and you would have rather been denied the right to life than to live with an illness. But do you fully understand that would mean you would have never existed. A lot of people disagree with that and rightly so. Why don't you start thinking about some of the positive things in your life. Have you made a difference in someone else's life? Or do you feel the only purpose your life has is to try to stop other CF kids from being born? If so, you are making your life suck. Try to think about positive things, anyone can dewell on bad crap. I could sit here all day and think about subjects that make me feel hate, anger, depression, sadness and all sorts of terrible things as could everyone else on this planet, not just CF people. This is your life and its up to you to make it good, you were givin what you got so cope and overcome. You could really benefit from therapy. But you shouldn't suggest that everyone with CF would rather have not been born because as a matter of FACT that is not TRUE!
Jennifer

 

[anonymous]

WinAce,

It is not for you (or anyone else) to judge who is "potentially contributing to more people with deadly illnesses being born" but if you feel that is your place in life, I hope you are so satisifed with it. I am just disgusted and saddned at the way you seem to view things but yet again, that is your decision and you get to live with the consequesnces of you choices, views and decisions.


Julie (wife to mark 24 w/CF)

 

[anonymous]

WinAce joined this forum sometime in March, and the only topics I have seen him respond to are this one (highly emotional and personal decision whether or not to have children if you are CF carriers) and the religion topic (again, highly emotional and personal). In both topics, he has been almost aggressive with his opionions.

As a person with CF, dealing with it on a day-to-day basis, I would think he might have a lot to add to other posts as well. But after glancing at his website, where he refers to himself as a "sarcastic jackass," I'm beginning to think that maybe he is the type of person who just enjoys getting a rise out of people?

 

[anonymous]

Winace,
Why do you bother getting out of bed in the morning? What drives you? Why do you educate yourself? What do you feel most strongly about (honestly)? I'm just curious.

And for the pp I think it was Col,l don't assume all parents love their children. That is not true. I would love to show you some photo's I have from when I was studying child abuse investigations. If that was love I don't want any part of it. While you seem to be a pretty wise kid, that was a pretty dumb assumption.
Jennifer

 

[anonymous]

Winace,
Why do you bother getting out of bed in the morning? What drives you? Why do you educate yourself? What do you feel most strongly about (honestly)? I'm just curious.

And for the pp I think it was Coll, don't assume all parents love their children. That is not true. I would love to show you some photo's I have from when I was studying child abuse investigations. If that was love I don't want any part of it. While you seem to be a pretty wise kid, that was a pretty dumb assumption.
Jennifer

 

[Emily65Roses]

I don't think that was an assumption for every child overall, even though Coll didn't specify. She knows better than to think every parent everywhere loves every child everywhere.

 

[anonymous]

<blockquote>Quote<br><hr>I also think that its obvious and goes without saying that a child is loved by their parents regardless of their health so its a rather dumb argumentative point. <hr></blockquote>
How else can you interpret this statement? Its very clear to me that she is saying just that.

And most people that do have children with CF had no idea thay even posessed the gene to produce such an effect. What would make an abusive parent treat a child with CF differently than one without? In fact I believe the abuse could potentially be worse. An already abusive parent could become even more stressed having to deal with a sick child.
I don't know if any of you watch AMW but I watched a story on their about a year ago regarding a father who killed his teenage son and his son's female friend after they came to him asking for medical assistance (his son had cf). His father was well off but didn't want the burden.
My point was that a loving family can make a big difference and that point was discredited by the above statement which in my opinion is not true no matter how you articulate it.
Jennifer

 

[Emily65Roses]

Okay then. Listen I'm not about to say every parent loves their child, I know better. I know there are disgusting sick people out there. All I meant is that, no matter how Coll phrased that sentence, I know she knows better than to think every parent loves every child.

 

[anonymous]

Okay Emily,
Here is the thing. Coll attacked my reasoning for supporting the decision of parents to decide whether or not to have a child knowing their risks. And I retaliated. Plain and simple. If you agree with her point that is fine. I do not. Thank goodness I live in America!
Jen

 

[anonymous]

....If you want to spread the word that certain people should not have children then go to the projects and poverty stricken neighborhoods and spread it. From what I have read of the parents on this board they love and cherish their children, they provide them with excellent care and if they are willing to give this same care to another child then god bless them and I wish their were more responsible parents like that in the world. Reckless is having a baby and throwing it in a trashcan.

Sorry, this just got to me. Could be the pregnancy hormones. I just know that I love this little boy that is growing within me and I will do the best job I can do to make sure he enjoys his life, if it were my choice he would be perfectly healthy, graduate with honors from Harvard University, marry a lovely lady, have precious grand children for me. But who has this guarantee in life? Noone does. Life is what we make of it. And I will instill that in my son. Healthy or not, were all lucky to be here.

Jennifer<hr></blockquote>


Hi,

This is Kathy-Colleen's mom. Just to clairfy: Coll never accused anyone of being reckless (someone else posted that). And she didn't attack anyone - she was simply giving her perspective - as a CF teen who has experienced alot - saying that she recommends doing pre-natal screening if you can afford it. As Emily said, Coll's sentence about all parents loving their kids was probably worded poorly (I believe she meant loving parents love a child [healthy or not] - however, she isn't feeling well right now - so that's probably why.

Best of luck with your pregnancy, Kathy

 

[anonymous]

Hi,

This is Kathy-Colleen's mom. Just to clairfy: Coll never accused anyone of being reckless (someone else posted that). And she didn't attack anyone - she was simply giving her perspective - as a CF teen who has experienced alot - saying that she recommends doing pre-natal screening if you can afford it. As Emily said, Coll's sentence about all parents loving their kids was probably worded poorly (I believe she meant loving parents love a child [healthy or not] - however, she isn't feeling well right now - so that's probably why.

Best of luck with your pregnancy, Kathy

Kathy-
I don't think anyone was discouraging prenatal testing. The original poster was debating whether to have more children knowing you and your partner are both carriers. At least that is what I made of it. I did not accuse her of calling anyone reckless, I'm well aware that was another poster. I'm sorry she isin't feeling well and the point that she knows all parents don't love their children is completely understood. I gave my perspective and she countered it. That was that. I was just posting my opinion on it. I don't feel attacked nor should she. Its just an opinion thread and a very contraversal one at that.
Jennifer

 

[anonymous]

Okay Ladies (and gents?),

I started this post to find some support, options, etc. on having more children (when both parents know they are carriers). At this point, the whole thing has gotten out of hand and I am starting to think we should all just forget this post ever began... Obviously I cannot keep anyone from posting to it again and I can understand if there is someone who just *has* to get their opinions out on it, but the original point to this topic has pretty well been forgotten and I don't like to see anyone's feeling gets hurt or see people waste good time being angry.

SO CAN WE PLEASE STOP THIS NONSENSE???

Sorry if that sounds harsh!!

Original Poster

Once again, thanks to those who were positive, considerate and caring while sharing their thoughts/beliefs!

 

[anonymous]

I think almost all the replies pertained to the topic - the problem is people ask for opinions and then get annoyed if an opinion is given that they don't agree with! (a common problem with internet support groups)!

 

[anonymous]

Winace, I just feel sorry that your parents decided to have you. You are probably a child of divorce and you were the cause. Just b/c of your short stature does not mean that you have to tear down others. People usually want to have kids b/c they have a lot of love to give unlike yourself. Why dont you post something about your great diet it seems to be working very well for you, you have some great pictures on your website.