Having more children?

Emily65Roses

New member
Okay I don't agree with WinAce either, but that was uncalled for. You don't have to agree with everyone. In fact, you never will agree with anyone. So even though his opinions are unpopular and you don't share them, doesn't mean you have any right to berate him.
 

WinAce

New member
<blockquote><hr><i>Originally posted by Jennifer</i>
I think what you are failing to realize here is this; you suggest that becoming pregnant knowing that you have a %25 chance of having a baby with an illness is wrong and reckless even thought the odds are %75 chance the baby will not have CF because the child could be sick.<hr></blockquote>

Yeah, I'm suggesting exactly that; just as pointing and shooting a revolver--that has only one bullet loaded--at your kids is reckless and irresponsible, even though they're likely to come out unharmed. The odds of really crippling them with that--especially if you aim at non-vital body parts--are significantly less than two knowing CF carriers playing house, too.

<blockquote><hr>The alternative to this is not giving life to that child AT ALL.<hr></blockquote>

And? You're not obligated to give life to every potential child that could ever exist. Following this reasoning to its natural conclusion, everyone who isn't 100% preoccupied with having kids every time their uterus is available is a bad parent. After all, if you decide 2 kids are enough for you, you're not giving life to a 3rd one... and if you stop at 3, that fourth one's gonna be ripped off!

That logic just doesn't work. Before a kid actually exists, it's a hypothetical, and "denying" life to a potentiality (as opposed to, say, killing someone who already has a life) is hardly the crime some would make it out to be. Especially in the case of <i>deathly sick</i> kids, what, exactly, is the problem in trying to make sure they're as limited a subset of the kiddie population as is possible? Ensuring as few people as possible ever have to experience chest CPT, PICC lines, mediport surgeries, hemoptysis, pneumothorax, lung transplant, and all that other fun stuff? If I didn't know better, I'd almost be tempted to believe there are unscrupulous doctors posting here whose livelihoods would be affected if no new patients came along.

Lastly, of course, the alternative to not taking dangerous risks with a child's health <i>need</i> not be missing out on kids altogether, so even on that point, you're wrong. One could bear another child <i>instead</i>, one who'd never <i>need</i> to go through all that, because its parents got some responsibility for once and avoided taking unnecessary risks. Or you could go one better than that, and make a child in a foster home--who'd otherwise miss out on a family while you were busy adding more as-yet non-existent sick kids to the world--really happy.

Neither my email address nor instant message IDs are a secret. My website also has a forum, and for that matter, there's an "other topics" area here which might be perfect for such gossip. This thread, on the other hand, is about "thoughts on having more children after finding out that both parents are carriers." If you'd <i>really</i> like to know something about me, as opposed to being condescending on an open board, ask. (For the record, It's far more depressing that there are people pathetic enough to make cowardly anonymous attacks on others' appearance, than any such mockery itself. Just how many hours of thinking up witty retorts did you spend, before remembering people with CF can be underweight?)

To most everyone else who disagrees with me, I suggest you re-read what I've actually been writing, rather than the interpretations of it that you've pulled out of gods-know where, and stop trying to psychoanalyze people whose points you clearly haven't even understood. Perhaps the best proof I've been right all along is that, instead of reasoned responses, no one's replied with anything more substantial than strawman (ala "you want to devalue the life of all sick people!,") or various personal attacks.

--Allan
 

anonymous

New member
Whomever stated WinAce is the reason depression exists- I am sorry you feel that way. I'm a friend of his and that is very much not the case. He has every reason in the world to be depressed, yet he maintains his sense of humor. He's witty and creative. He listens to others' problems and offers advice to the best of his ability/experience.

However, continually insulting someone with a horrid disease is far from being compassionate, friendly or respectful. He offered his opinion on the matter and backed it up with reasons he felt the way he did. There are means to disagree in a calm manner. As a woman, I agree with his position. That doesn't mean that I would love a child any less if it had CF, but if I had the ability to ensure my child was able to have every advantage I am capable of giving it, then I will do so. And since WinAce has CF, I can understand why he feels strongly about doing what he can do to ensure he does not pass it on to anyone.

I think what he is saying is that in an ideal world, no one would be born with this disease, so why not do what he can to be as close to that ideal as possible?
 
Z

Zyrexana

Guest
<blockquote>Quote<br><hr><i>Originally posted by: <b>Anonymous</b></i><br>And another problem I have with your posts on this topic, you aren't a woman. Now, I am not saying that the initial poster didn't welcome responses from both sexes, I don't know and I am not her and I don't favor one sex over the other. But I can say from my personal stance, you NEVER have and NEVER will know what it is like to be pregnant, get that morning sickness and laugh or cry tears of joy, feel a baby move around in your stomach, after 9 long months of waiting finally be able to deliver that baby, you will never know what it feels to breastfeed and be able to feel that bond a breastfeeding mother feels. So your rude and negative posts on this particular topic don't weigh too heavily with me, and I hope they don't with the initial poster either. Therefore, I don't really feel like ou have a right to post some of the things that you did, maybe it's just me.<hr></blockquote>



Wow. I mean, wow. That's the cheapest argument I've seen in a long while. From a female stance, because I DO happen to be female, that's completely feminist and unfair. Are you saying fathers don't experience similar joys, just of different things, when they have a child? Last I checked, isn't a child in such a situation half theirs? That's totally unfair to guys to suggest that such pleasures and tribulations are entirely exclusive to females.

And it doesn't even have to do anything with the discussion itself, besides a really cheap argument. The father has to deal with the child having CF too, and they also get the pleasures of "Wow... this is my kid... my baby..." and all the joy that entails. Fathers (good ones, at least) wake up at 2 AM to help rock the crying baby back to sleep just as mothers do. And they get the same kind of joy hearing a kid's first words, and seeing them take their first steps. So that point is entirely fallacious, and I pity that you actually think that being able to give birth to kids makes your opinion count more than others. I mean, honestly.

Also, I think you're missing the point about the whole adoption thing. I think what WinAce is trying to say is that it makes a whole lot more sense to adopt a child that would otherwise have no family, nobody that truly cares for them and cares about their role in school play, their accomplishments, their growth over time... give them family that really loves them... And make their lives better. The alternative is to let that child suffer whatever life they're stuck in, have ANOTHER kid that's also going to have to suffer so much (though yes, they have love and all that, at least I'd hope so)... Isn't that kind of selfish?

You tell me... do you think it'd be wrong if your parents never had you, and instead adopted a child from, say, a third world country that was suffering, starving, and would otherwise probably not live to see 20? I mean... what kind of selfish person would prefer to leave that kid to suffer versus justifying their own existence? Not to say I hold it against parents who have their own blood children. But at the same time, it's completely unfair for you to suggest that's a better route than saving those that already suffer. There's nothing wrong with indulging in a little bit of 'selfishness' like that... selfishness isn't necessarily bad. But to pretend it's anything BUT selfish IS wrong. If you're going to do something like that, at least have the common decency and maturity to admit there could be a more "unselfish" way.

You're bold to speak for someone (a child with CF that is not yet born) and say they'd rather live sick than not exist. And in many cases, sure, I can see how some people With CF would agree. However, you are ALSO speaking for them in saying "My child would rather exist than have me help a poor suffering kid that has no prospects in life and will be plagued by starvation and disease for the likely short duration of his existence." That's VERY bold.
 
Z

Zyrexana

Guest
<blockquote>Quote<br><hr><i>Originally posted by: <b>Anonymous</b></i><br>Winace, I just feel sorry that your parents decided to have you. You are probably a child of divorce and you were the cause. Just b/c of your short stature does not mean that you have to tear down others. People usually want to have kids b/c they have a lot of love to give unlike yourself. Why dont you post something about your great diet it seems to be working very well for you, you have some great pictures on your website.<hr></blockquote>

Totally uncalled for. And totally insolent. Back to that 'maturity' thing... If you'd resort to mud-slinging, are you really sure you're mature enough to even have children?
 

anonymous

New member
Winace,
I still don't agree with your comment that having a child with the CF posibility is reckless. However, I like you. Your very good at putting into words how you feel and you have sincere deep thoughts and I love that in a man. I appreciate your comments, I really do, and I'm glad you shared your thoughts on this. I think you have a lot to offer society as an intelligent speaker and I'm glad your here.
Jennifer
 
Top