how do you deal with control issues when you need to maintain control?

S

stringbean

New member
We ran into a weird roadblock in our attempts to get some weight on my daughter. She was gaining after putting in an NG tube, but then suddenly it became really hard to get her to eat anything. Right after meeting with the nutritionist, every meal seemed to become an argument. During the week between that appointment and one with the gastroenterologist, she didn't gain an ounce.

The doctor sat her down for a little chat, planning on commiserating on how hard it must be to go to school with an NG tube. She instead declared that she stopped eating because if she gains weight, he will take the tube out. She actually <i>wants</i> the tube in because "the kids are being really nice to me and if it comes out, they will stop talking to me." If it wasn't so heartbreaking, it would be downright funny. All the angst her doctor and I went through about putting her through this and she <i>likes</i> it! The doctor ended up telling her that if she doesn't eat during the day, he'll have to pull the tube out since it won't be doing her any good. She now seems to be back on track for gaining weight - she's regained everything she lost while she was sick last week, plus a tiny bit extra.

For the time being, we've resolved the problem at hand, but the bigger question of letting her feel like she has some control over her life will present itself in many different forms, especially as she gets older.
How do you deal with control issues when you need to maintain control? I don't want to fight about eating or taking medication (or going to bed or a million other issues - but there's no leeway on food or medicine.) I try to let her make choices, but sometimes there is no choice.

What do you do?
 
S

stringbean

New member
We ran into a weird roadblock in our attempts to get some weight on my daughter. She was gaining after putting in an NG tube, but then suddenly it became really hard to get her to eat anything. Right after meeting with the nutritionist, every meal seemed to become an argument. During the week between that appointment and one with the gastroenterologist, she didn't gain an ounce.

The doctor sat her down for a little chat, planning on commiserating on how hard it must be to go to school with an NG tube. She instead declared that she stopped eating because if she gains weight, he will take the tube out. She actually <i>wants</i> the tube in because "the kids are being really nice to me and if it comes out, they will stop talking to me." If it wasn't so heartbreaking, it would be downright funny. All the angst her doctor and I went through about putting her through this and she <i>likes</i> it! The doctor ended up telling her that if she doesn't eat during the day, he'll have to pull the tube out since it won't be doing her any good. She now seems to be back on track for gaining weight - she's regained everything she lost while she was sick last week, plus a tiny bit extra.

For the time being, we've resolved the problem at hand, but the bigger question of letting her feel like she has some control over her life will present itself in many different forms, especially as she gets older.
How do you deal with control issues when you need to maintain control? I don't want to fight about eating or taking medication (or going to bed or a million other issues - but there's no leeway on food or medicine.) I try to let her make choices, but sometimes there is no choice.

What do you do?
 
S

stringbean

New member
We ran into a weird roadblock in our attempts to get some weight on my daughter. She was gaining after putting in an NG tube, but then suddenly it became really hard to get her to eat anything. Right after meeting with the nutritionist, every meal seemed to become an argument. During the week between that appointment and one with the gastroenterologist, she didn't gain an ounce.
<br />
<br />The doctor sat her down for a little chat, planning on commiserating on how hard it must be to go to school with an NG tube. She instead declared that she stopped eating because if she gains weight, he will take the tube out. She actually <i>wants</i> the tube in because "the kids are being really nice to me and if it comes out, they will stop talking to me." If it wasn't so heartbreaking, it would be downright funny. All the angst her doctor and I went through about putting her through this and she <i>likes</i> it! The doctor ended up telling her that if she doesn't eat during the day, he'll have to pull the tube out since it won't be doing her any good. She now seems to be back on track for gaining weight - she's regained everything she lost while she was sick last week, plus a tiny bit extra.
<br />
<br />For the time being, we've resolved the problem at hand, but the bigger question of letting her feel like she has some control over her life will present itself in many different forms, especially as she gets older.
<br />How do you deal with control issues when you need to maintain control? I don't want to fight about eating or taking medication (or going to bed or a million other issues - but there's no leeway on food or medicine.) I try to let her make choices, but sometimes there is no choice.
<br />
<br />What do you do?
<br />
 
M

Mommafirst

Guest
Great question!! I wish I had the magic answer. My daughter is constantly struggling with me over everything. Treatments happen because we let her choose what she wants to watch and what we should play while she does her treatment, it works, but she's smart enough to know that if she wants control of the TV when someone else is watching something or to get me to stop cleaning and sit down to play a board game she just says she's ready to do her vest. UGH. So now we've had to modify some of the benefits.

As for food, when we had the g-tube placed I was able to let go completely. She gets offerred a wide variety of healthy and high fat options and whatever she eats and chooses is great, and whatever she doesn't choose or eat I let it go. Now we are weaning from the tube and she is eating well and making good choices, I hope she continues to do well and doesn't lose weight. But if so, I'll go back to the tube rather than get back to where it makes me crazy upset.
 
M

Mommafirst

Guest
Great question!! I wish I had the magic answer. My daughter is constantly struggling with me over everything. Treatments happen because we let her choose what she wants to watch and what we should play while she does her treatment, it works, but she's smart enough to know that if she wants control of the TV when someone else is watching something or to get me to stop cleaning and sit down to play a board game she just says she's ready to do her vest. UGH. So now we've had to modify some of the benefits.

As for food, when we had the g-tube placed I was able to let go completely. She gets offerred a wide variety of healthy and high fat options and whatever she eats and chooses is great, and whatever she doesn't choose or eat I let it go. Now we are weaning from the tube and she is eating well and making good choices, I hope she continues to do well and doesn't lose weight. But if so, I'll go back to the tube rather than get back to where it makes me crazy upset.
 
M

Mommafirst

Guest
Great question!! I wish I had the magic answer. My daughter is constantly struggling with me over everything. Treatments happen because we let her choose what she wants to watch and what we should play while she does her treatment, it works, but she's smart enough to know that if she wants control of the TV when someone else is watching something or to get me to stop cleaning and sit down to play a board game she just says she's ready to do her vest. UGH. So now we've had to modify some of the benefits.
<br />
<br />As for food, when we had the g-tube placed I was able to let go completely. She gets offerred a wide variety of healthy and high fat options and whatever she eats and chooses is great, and whatever she doesn't choose or eat I let it go. Now we are weaning from the tube and she is eating well and making good choices, I hope she continues to do well and doesn't lose weight. But if so, I'll go back to the tube rather than get back to where it makes me crazy upset.
 
H

hmw

New member
I am so sorry you are dealing with this. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif" border="0"> I wonder if she is afraid of the tube coming out at ALL, and just uses the kids at school as the reason she is willing to express. The dr kept telling you before how if it works he'll pull it (which imo sounds so counterproductive but anyway...) and if she is feeling stronger and healthier now that she is finally gaining, I wonder if that prospect truly scares her. I also wonder if she fears surgery and therefore wants to hang onto the ng for that reason. I would consider exploring with her how she's been feeling since having it- beyond the obvious of the number on the scale.

Control is a really hard one. All kids push limits and try to grab control at various stages anyway but when it comes to their health it can become all-consuming trying to get cooperation and dangerous if they completely refuse to comply. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif" border="0"> Being matter of fact and completely unemotional has so far been the best way to approach things with Emily and not giving in when she has tantrums over doing her tx. Thus far she's done pretty well but when she occasionally melts down and is sobbing over how tired she is it would be SO easy to let her go to bed 'just this once' ... but if I did, it would be a battle the next day and the next. Getting her to take 14 pills every morning with breakfast (more when sick) and more throughout the rest of the day can be hard... she swallows a bunch at a time now but hates the taste and texture of many and has days she really fights it. But again, the less emotion I show about it (including no sympathy) the better she does. I don't mean that I am unkind about it... but if I am all sympathetic about it, I get much less cooperation. I am not looking forward to potential 'control' issues that might arise once she has her tube in a few weeks. She's old enough where hooking her up and leaving it running all night will be very hard to accomplish without her cooperation.

I hope you can figure this out as you go along... our kids are all so different and we'll need to find the tricks that work best but many of the issues that crop up seem to be kind of universal.


<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>she's smart enough to know that if she wants control of the TV when someone else is watching something or to get me to stop cleaning and sit down to play a board game she just says she's ready to do her vest.</end quote></div>
Ohhh she's a smart cookie all right! Emily gets to pick what to watch, etc during her tx too... I would just tell her that is fine, she can watch/do X, but you won't be ready to get her nebs together and get her started, etc until X (read: when their show is over.)
 
H

hmw

New member
I am so sorry you are dealing with this. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif" border="0"> I wonder if she is afraid of the tube coming out at ALL, and just uses the kids at school as the reason she is willing to express. The dr kept telling you before how if it works he'll pull it (which imo sounds so counterproductive but anyway...) and if she is feeling stronger and healthier now that she is finally gaining, I wonder if that prospect truly scares her. I also wonder if she fears surgery and therefore wants to hang onto the ng for that reason. I would consider exploring with her how she's been feeling since having it- beyond the obvious of the number on the scale.

Control is a really hard one. All kids push limits and try to grab control at various stages anyway but when it comes to their health it can become all-consuming trying to get cooperation and dangerous if they completely refuse to comply. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif" border="0"> Being matter of fact and completely unemotional has so far been the best way to approach things with Emily and not giving in when she has tantrums over doing her tx. Thus far she's done pretty well but when she occasionally melts down and is sobbing over how tired she is it would be SO easy to let her go to bed 'just this once' ... but if I did, it would be a battle the next day and the next. Getting her to take 14 pills every morning with breakfast (more when sick) and more throughout the rest of the day can be hard... she swallows a bunch at a time now but hates the taste and texture of many and has days she really fights it. But again, the less emotion I show about it (including no sympathy) the better she does. I don't mean that I am unkind about it... but if I am all sympathetic about it, I get much less cooperation. I am not looking forward to potential 'control' issues that might arise once she has her tube in a few weeks. She's old enough where hooking her up and leaving it running all night will be very hard to accomplish without her cooperation.

I hope you can figure this out as you go along... our kids are all so different and we'll need to find the tricks that work best but many of the issues that crop up seem to be kind of universal.


<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>she's smart enough to know that if she wants control of the TV when someone else is watching something or to get me to stop cleaning and sit down to play a board game she just says she's ready to do her vest.</end quote>
Ohhh she's a smart cookie all right! Emily gets to pick what to watch, etc during her tx too... I would just tell her that is fine, she can watch/do X, but you won't be ready to get her nebs together and get her started, etc until X (read: when their show is over.)
 
H

hmw

New member
I am so sorry you are dealing with this. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif" border="0"> I wonder if she is afraid of the tube coming out at ALL, and just uses the kids at school as the reason she is willing to express. The dr kept telling you before how if it works he'll pull it (which imo sounds so counterproductive but anyway...) and if she is feeling stronger and healthier now that she is finally gaining, I wonder if that prospect truly scares her. I also wonder if she fears surgery and therefore wants to hang onto the ng for that reason. I would consider exploring with her how she's been feeling since having it- beyond the obvious of the number on the scale.
<br />
<br />Control is a really hard one. All kids push limits and try to grab control at various stages anyway but when it comes to their health it can become all-consuming trying to get cooperation and dangerous if they completely refuse to comply. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif" border="0"> Being matter of fact and completely unemotional has so far been the best way to approach things with Emily and not giving in when she has tantrums over doing her tx. Thus far she's done pretty well but when she occasionally melts down and is sobbing over how tired she is it would be SO easy to let her go to bed 'just this once' ... but if I did, it would be a battle the next day and the next. Getting her to take 14 pills every morning with breakfast (more when sick) and more throughout the rest of the day can be hard... she swallows a bunch at a time now but hates the taste and texture of many and has days she really fights it. But again, the less emotion I show about it (including no sympathy) the better she does. I don't mean that I am unkind about it... but if I am all sympathetic about it, I get much less cooperation. I am not looking forward to potential 'control' issues that might arise once she has her tube in a few weeks. She's old enough where hooking her up and leaving it running all night will be very hard to accomplish without her cooperation.
<br />
<br />I hope you can figure this out as you go along... our kids are all so different and we'll need to find the tricks that work best but many of the issues that crop up seem to be kind of universal.
<br />
<br />
<br /><div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>she's smart enough to know that if she wants control of the TV when someone else is watching something or to get me to stop cleaning and sit down to play a board game she just says she's ready to do her vest.</end quote>
<br />Ohhh she's a smart cookie all right! Emily gets to pick what to watch, etc during her tx too... I would just tell her that is fine, she can watch/do X, but you won't be ready to get her nebs together and get her started, etc until X (read: when their show is over.)
 
F

folione

New member
We gave our kid his own kitchen cabinet at floor level - it is the snack cupboard. It is filled with all sorts of things some he picked out and some we picked out. He has pretty much freedom to go in and get what he wants when he wants a snack & also to pull out things for breakfast or to add to lunch/dinner. He is not much of a candy-eater so it is mostly all sorts of cereals, crackers, energy bars/granola bars, cookies. It is also popular with his friends. He has had good times and fussy times but throughout it, we've mostly felt like we'd rather he ate anything than nothing so have tried not to be too fussy about balanced meals and all that. We also stock the freezer with several kinds of ice cream and the fridge with pudding and yogurt drinks that he can ask for as snacks or after meals.
 
F

folione

New member
We gave our kid his own kitchen cabinet at floor level - it is the snack cupboard. It is filled with all sorts of things some he picked out and some we picked out. He has pretty much freedom to go in and get what he wants when he wants a snack & also to pull out things for breakfast or to add to lunch/dinner. He is not much of a candy-eater so it is mostly all sorts of cereals, crackers, energy bars/granola bars, cookies. It is also popular with his friends. He has had good times and fussy times but throughout it, we've mostly felt like we'd rather he ate anything than nothing so have tried not to be too fussy about balanced meals and all that. We also stock the freezer with several kinds of ice cream and the fridge with pudding and yogurt drinks that he can ask for as snacks or after meals.
 
F

folione

New member
We gave our kid his own kitchen cabinet at floor level - it is the snack cupboard. It is filled with all sorts of things some he picked out and some we picked out. He has pretty much freedom to go in and get what he wants when he wants a snack & also to pull out things for breakfast or to add to lunch/dinner. He is not much of a candy-eater so it is mostly all sorts of cereals, crackers, energy bars/granola bars, cookies. It is also popular with his friends. He has had good times and fussy times but throughout it, we've mostly felt like we'd rather he ate anything than nothing so have tried not to be too fussy about balanced meals and all that. We also stock the freezer with several kinds of ice cream and the fridge with pudding and yogurt drinks that he can ask for as snacks or after meals.
 
L

LouLou

New member
You didn't mention how old she is but sounds to me like she should be taking on more responsiblity of her medical regimen. Show her that you have trust (even if you don't)! Make her break your trust and then lay in on the consequences. Read Lisa Green and Foster Cline's book if you haven't already. It's got answers to this very question!! Find out how she wants your involvement. How can YOU help HER. Not the other way around. I know it's going to feel strange but like you realize if you don't start with these baby steps it will be the her declaring sooner than later that she won't do ANY OF IT! Then what the heck are you goign to do. This is her life, not yours. I'm sure you wish in a way you could just do the treatments for her and get it over with but you can't.

Bottom line. Kids - cf or not - that don't eat aren't well and shouldn't be allowed priveledges like playing with their friends. I love Lisa's book because she gives you ideas of how to take the emotion and the "them" out of it. Such as instead of ranting about how they won't be able to go to their friends. Say, "I'm just too tired to drive you to your friend's house today. I haven't eaten a well balanced diet today and I'm feeling the reprocussions."

Another idea is to talk about ingredients of what you make at home. I'm assuming you use lots of fresh ingredients and cook from scratch. Explain to her how everything is manufacturered and un-natural (dare I say C_RAP!) in the feeding. Her body can not be properly nourished by it alone. If you are cooking junk food at home now is the time to start instilling better habits. Perhaps you could interest her in the food at the table by involving her in the preperation of it.

Hope these ideas help someone.
 
L

LouLou

New member
You didn't mention how old she is but sounds to me like she should be taking on more responsiblity of her medical regimen. Show her that you have trust (even if you don't)! Make her break your trust and then lay in on the consequences. Read Lisa Green and Foster Cline's book if you haven't already. It's got answers to this very question!! Find out how she wants your involvement. How can YOU help HER. Not the other way around. I know it's going to feel strange but like you realize if you don't start with these baby steps it will be the her declaring sooner than later that she won't do ANY OF IT! Then what the heck are you goign to do. This is her life, not yours. I'm sure you wish in a way you could just do the treatments for her and get it over with but you can't.

Bottom line. Kids - cf or not - that don't eat aren't well and shouldn't be allowed priveledges like playing with their friends. I love Lisa's book because she gives you ideas of how to take the emotion and the "them" out of it. Such as instead of ranting about how they won't be able to go to their friends. Say, "I'm just too tired to drive you to your friend's house today. I haven't eaten a well balanced diet today and I'm feeling the reprocussions."

Another idea is to talk about ingredients of what you make at home. I'm assuming you use lots of fresh ingredients and cook from scratch. Explain to her how everything is manufacturered and un-natural (dare I say C_RAP!) in the feeding. Her body can not be properly nourished by it alone. If you are cooking junk food at home now is the time to start instilling better habits. Perhaps you could interest her in the food at the table by involving her in the preperation of it.

Hope these ideas help someone.
 
L

LouLou

New member
You didn't mention how old she is but sounds to me like she should be taking on more responsiblity of her medical regimen. Show her that you have trust (even if you don't)! Make her break your trust and then lay in on the consequences. Read Lisa Green and Foster Cline's book if you haven't already. It's got answers to this very question!! Find out how she wants your involvement. How can YOU help HER. Not the other way around. I know it's going to feel strange but like you realize if you don't start with these baby steps it will be the her declaring sooner than later that she won't do ANY OF IT! Then what the heck are you goign to do. This is her life, not yours. I'm sure you wish in a way you could just do the treatments for her and get it over with but you can't.
<br />
<br />Bottom line. Kids - cf or not - that don't eat aren't well and shouldn't be allowed priveledges like playing with their friends. I love Lisa's book because she gives you ideas of how to take the emotion and the "them" out of it. Such as instead of ranting about how they won't be able to go to their friends. Say, "I'm just too tired to drive you to your friend's house today. I haven't eaten a well balanced diet today and I'm feeling the reprocussions."
<br />
<br />Another idea is to talk about ingredients of what you make at home. I'm assuming you use lots of fresh ingredients and cook from scratch. Explain to her how everything is manufacturered and un-natural (dare I say C_RAP!) in the feeding. Her body can not be properly nourished by it alone. If you are cooking junk food at home now is the time to start instilling better habits. Perhaps you could interest her in the food at the table by involving her in the preperation of it.
<br />
<br />Hope these ideas help someone.
 
L

LouLou

New member
Take her to a farmer's market and give her a $20 bill to spend any way she wants. Explain about fuel, money, sun, water, fields, wastefulness and how nothing they buy can be wasted that this is these farmer's livelihood just like her daddy goes to work each day to provide for her family they have family's too. Help her prepare the foods in interesting ways. Such as eat berries raw as you prepare a berry bread. Mmmm....
 
L

LouLou

New member
Take her to a farmer's market and give her a $20 bill to spend any way she wants. Explain about fuel, money, sun, water, fields, wastefulness and how nothing they buy can be wasted that this is these farmer's livelihood just like her daddy goes to work each day to provide for her family they have family's too. Help her prepare the foods in interesting ways. Such as eat berries raw as you prepare a berry bread. Mmmm....
 
L

LouLou

New member
Take her to a farmer's market and give her a $20 bill to spend any way she wants. Explain about fuel, money, sun, water, fields, wastefulness and how nothing they buy can be wasted that this is these farmer's livelihood just like her daddy goes to work each day to provide for her family they have family's too. Help her prepare the foods in interesting ways. Such as eat berries raw as you prepare a berry bread. Mmmm....
 
H

hmw

New member
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>I'm assuming you use lots of fresh ingredients and cook from scratch. Explain to her how everything is manufacturered and un-natural (dare I say C_RAP!) in the feeding.</end quote></div>
Just feel the need to point out that MANY of us parents do everything we can to provide the best diet possible with the best food possible and that 'crap manufactured food' that goes through the tube can be the difference between growth failure and health. It is NOT CRAP. it is what we need to do sometimes to help our child thrive. I totally get the point of what you are trying to say in your post- you have a lot of great ideas and what you said there was only a tiny part of your post- but to the parents here who have done so many things to feed their children well and then have to resort to 'artificial' feedings anyway- that kind of assumption hurts.
 
H

hmw

New member
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>I'm assuming you use lots of fresh ingredients and cook from scratch. Explain to her how everything is manufacturered and un-natural (dare I say C_RAP!) in the feeding.</end quote>
Just feel the need to point out that MANY of us parents do everything we can to provide the best diet possible with the best food possible and that 'crap manufactured food' that goes through the tube can be the difference between growth failure and health. It is NOT CRAP. it is what we need to do sometimes to help our child thrive. I totally get the point of what you are trying to say in your post- you have a lot of great ideas and what you said there was only a tiny part of your post- but to the parents here who have done so many things to feed their children well and then have to resort to 'artificial' feedings anyway- that kind of assumption hurts.
 
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