OT-Update on friend in Iraq

[julie]

Now that this has moved to the OT section, I suppose I'll elaborate a little bit more.

Lilith,

As far as my friends "supposed" involvement in the incident, he was the one who shot or moved (unknown at this point) the AK47 of the "innocent" iraqi so that it would look like they had a reason to shoot him, he maintains (and I really believe him) that he had no part in dragging the guy out of the house or in beating and then shooting him. He is however involved in the "consipriacy" part because of him making it look like they had a purpose to shoot him. He is a medical personnel and is only trained in defending himself, he's not trained in war fighting like the marines are.

Of course, none of this info is firsthand from him so I'm not sure how much of it is completely accurate. Hopefully that will all come out in trial.

I don't agree in murder, and I don't agree with THIS war. But I still don't think anyone who hasn't been deployed to a war zone has any right to judge his or anyone elses actions.

Also, in my previous post (the inital one) I mentioned that he had PTSD and some other psychological problems going on as a result of his first deployment, he was just home for 9 months before this second deployment. The military had NO right to send him back with untreated PTSD and other issues. THat, I think, they must take responsibility for.

I do thank you for your thoughts Lilith and appreciate the support for the family and for myself. I dont' expect anyone to condone murder and I understand where you are coming from. .

Mockingbird, I do so much appreciate your thoughts and prayers, as does the family. The were planning on trying to get pregnant again when he returned from deployment and had just closed on a house about 2 months ago. I do agree with you, I really don't care if Melson would have died with honor if he was shot or whatever else for refusing an order (lawful or not, doesn't matter in the middle of armed conflict), that does jack crap for his family.
I know it sounds messed up but if he's in jail, at least his daughter can see him. Better than a dead dad... maybe. It's a tough call.

Thank you for your support! I pass this info onto the family, leaving out names and such, but it brings tears to my friend and her husband to know that there are so many out there who don't even know them, but who care

 

[kayleesgrandma]

It's alright in theory to say I would never take a human life to save my own, and I totally do not support what was done by those few soldiers, but untill you are in the situation you do not have the right to say what Julie's friend did was the wrong thing to do--for him--and to condem him for it. Look at the experiments they did with people thinking they were administering electric shocks to other people (who were actors). They kept turning up the level of intensity even when the people were writhing in pain (acting). These were people who never harmed someone before. When I was (most) of your age, we had the Mei Lai Massacre (spelling) of the Viet Nam War. Perfectly nice wholesome boys created atrocities. I would like to think that if it came to it, I would rather die than kill someone to protect myself. I just don't think we can rush to judgement unless we have combat shoes on, spattered by the blood of my comrades...

 

[anonymous]

I had not seen this entire thread until now (looked here due to julies new thread)

First of all, who really gives a crap. I see on here so many times, people saying "is this really cf related".

I mean come on ! Ridiculous, we all know that hardly anyone reads the off topic and to jump down Julie like this is so rude.

She is not a pin cushion guys, she is a real person. Treat her like it, please!

Karenb

 

[anonymous]

In all fairness this is <b>not</b> cf related, it really isn't. I think it would have been fine, and perhaps even stayed in the adult section had the whole 'I don't care' piece been excluded. But there is no need to beat eachother up over our political views on war and what not. My view is that I thought the 'I don't care' part was offensive, so hey, there you go.

Juile I hope everything turns out for the best with your friends situation..

Shamrock,x

 

[julie]

Shamrock,

I've already stated, In hindsight I shouldn't have included that "I dont' care" part. But now that it is here in the OT section, I might as well let it sit.

I'm sorry you were offended by it, that wasn't my intention. And in all fairness, I should have left my own opinion out of it and just posted about my friend, but then that too would have been discected by someone. It's always something.

That aside (I realized some people weren't going to agree and to me, I chalk it up to "that's life"), I do appreciate your thoughts that everything turns out the best for my friends situation. That is very kind of you.

Thank you Terri and Karen, I appreciate your posts. Thank you both for your support and also for your understanding. It is very touching to me.

 

[ladybug]

Julie's comment:

"Also, in my previous post (the inital one) I mentioned that he had PTSD and some other psychological problems going on as a result of his first deployment, he was just home for 9 months before this second deployment. The military had NO right to send him back with untreated PTSD and other issues. THat, I think, they must take responsibility for."








.... Oh, don't even get me started on the military's shortcomings when addressing mental health issues, Julie! <img src="">

Unless a military member wants his record "tainted" with all kinds of letters and "alerts", one cannot even go to a counselor for anxiety, depression, insomnia, etc... (unless one chooses to pay out of pocket from a private doctor, which most on a military salary clearly cannot afford!) I've done research on PTSD and soldiers as a graduate student, and it is NOT pretty (I personally think we owe these soldiers a lot more than what we provide them with.)

.... look, now I've started! urgh.

 

[anonymous]

I feel sorry for his wife, but not for him. He decided his fate and now must live with this choice. Sorry Charlie - you break the law, you do your time.

Period. End of story. (as Julie would say)

I will keep his wife in my thoughts.

 

[ladybug]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>Emily65Roses</b></i>

I'd like to see a list of factual information stating all the "good" we've done over there that CANNOT be argued. <div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>


<b>Here is some factual information for you: </b>

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2006/01/20060110.html">http://www.whitehouse.gov/news.../2006/01/20060110.html</a>

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.usaid.gov/press/factsheets/2004/fs040318.html">http://www.usaid.gov/press/fac...ets/2004/fs040318.html</a>

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.grd.usace.army.mil/news/factsheets/docs/Iraqreconprogramfactsheet.pdf#search='accomplishments%20in%20iraq'">http://www.grd.usace.army.mil/...lishments%20in%20iraq'</a>

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.iraqcoalition.org/pressreleases/20040628_historic_review_cpa.doc">http://www.iraqcoalition.org/p...istoric_review_cpa.doc</a>

 

[anonymous]

I have been thinking about this and my overall conclusion is that I am <b>completely</b> offended by the "I don't care" portion of this post. I think Julie should edit that portion out or the post should be removed. Since it basically says that the poster condones war crimes, it is offensive to any one who does not - Muslim, US soldier, anyone. As it condones war crimes it has no place on a public board - particular no place on a support board with an international readership.

To all of the Muslim members of this board, I would just like to say that I <b>do</b> care if Muslims and their religious items are treated with respect. I <b>do</b> care if the Koran is desecrated. I <b>do</b> care about prisoners and want them treated with respect according to the Geneva conventions. I <b>do</b> care how civilians are treated during wartime and do <b>not</b> condone war crimes and murder.

-LisaV

 

[anonymous]

and I am particularly offended that a self-identified member of the US armed forces (Julie) has posted that she does not care if US soldiers commit crimes. It is appalling that a member of the US armed forces would believe such a thing and it does her no credit. My extension it reflects badly on her comrades and on all of those who are in the theater of war and whom are trying so very hard to behave honorably.

-LisaV

 

[anonymous]

Lisa V
Just because Julie has a different opinion than yourself doesnt mean that part of her post should be removed. Alot of people on these boards agree with her, your opinion isnt the only one that matters. I think no matter what Julie writes you would pick it apart anyway.
Julie your friends whole family are in my thoughts, as well as you and Mark.
LisaV get off your bloody high horse!

 

[kayleesgrandma]

You know what, Lisa, after reading your post, I went back and re-read the "I Don't Care" post, and you're right. I'm ashamed of myself for my first reaction of "Yes, someone finally said it for those whinning about prisoners rights." I'm sure it would be offensive to our Muslin brothers, and sisters. We are supposed to be better that that--as Americans, and as Christians. It's rotten, but as Americans we are held to a higher ideal than people from other nations. Kind of like a minister isn't supposed to have human failings. But I also can understand why Julie felt like posting it, and I'm not offended by it. On retospect, it would have been better put in a blog (another reason for a blog, Julie). Thank you for pointing it out though--and for pricking my conscience. It's a fact of life here that there will always be something, or someone, on this site that will offend somebody at some time. We should be sensitive to it.

 

[DietRootBeer]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>I have been thinking about this and my overall conclusion is that I am completely offended by the "I don't care" portion of this post. I think Julie should edit that portion out or the post should be removed. Since it basically says that the poster condones war crimes, it is offensive to any one who does not - Muslim, US soldier, anyone. As it condones war crimes it has no place on a public board - particular no place on a support board with an international readership. </end quote></div>


I absolutely agree Lisa! Inappropriate....

 

[Mockingbird]

Persoanlly, I think the whole PC movement is what's ruining our country. Of course Julie doesn't condone war crimes, Lisa just said that to add false validity to her agruement (like when someone is called racist when they speak against illegal immigration, or when someone is called anti-american when they speak against the Bush administration). Lisa has every right to be offended, and the rest of us have every right not to care.

 

[anonymous]

Great post Mockingbird!!

I've noticed that whenever julie is being attacked, LisaV's names is not too far away. What is her problem with julie? She needs to get a life, if thats possible...

 

[julie]

LisaV,

It's in the OT section now so there's not need for me, or anyone else to remove it. I already stated numerous times that IF I had to do it over again and posted in the adults section, I would have left that portion out. I have also stated that since it has been moved, there is no need for me to remove my opinion about the situation.

<b>If I were to have to do that, then all of your posts regarding this topic woudl have to be deleted too becuause, well, you stated your opinion. I'm mature enough to say that I don't really care if you disagree with me, no hard feelings. And I dont' care if you express them either. We disagree. Ok, that's life.</b>

I do not condone murder, never have, never will. Nevertheless. NOBODY (even me) knows what really happened over there. These soldiers are sent to war and told to defend themselves. Maybe after the investigation is done, it will be revealed that is in fact what they were doing. And maybe it won't. But in the meantime, a family is suffering as a result. A family that didn't do anything.
So in that respect, maybe some of us could all be just a little human and sensitive.

 

[miesl]

I'm going to weigh in one last time...

I read the post. I am one of those who reported it to the mods to be moved, as I had every right to do. It was not so much that I did not find the post relevant (which it isn't), but that I did not find this post to be respectful (see, Julie's "I don't care" post).

If it had been a simple, pray for our friends post, I would have left it (even though it would be better suited for Prayer Requests), but I was curious. I too have had family and friends serving in Iraq. One of my best friend from childhood (and cousin) and her husband both served in Iraq. He is back for a second tour (and she is out of the military raising their daughter).

However, the post became politically charged by the original poster. At that point it was no longer acceptable (IMHO) for it to be placed in the Adults section. No one should be put off from the ON TOPIC, CF Adults forum because of a radical anti-Muslim post.

I found that post disgusting. Honestly, I should have reported it too. There are forums that would ban even a long standing member for posting that kind of intolerant garbage.

 

[julie]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>julie</b></i>

I already stated numerous times that IF I had to do it over again and posted in the adults section, I would have left that portion out. I have also stated that since it has been moved [to the OT section], there is no need for me to remove my opinion about the situation.</end quote></div>

Thought you might have missed this part ^^^^^^.

I am definately NOT going to remove it now because it is in the OT section, and this is a section where I suppose we can discuss things like this-or rather our views on it. So you disagree, ok. You've already said that a million times and I get your point. It doesn't change my mind. <b>But I'm not going to rip you apart (like you did to me) for your opinion.</b> That's the difference between you and me Miesl.

Furthermore, most of those who reported it (and that's fine, I've reported things too) are those who I don't get along with. That's fine, we all can't like everyone on this planet. But the thing is, I've got enough maturity and enough of a brain to see a post by those I don't get along with and NOT FREAKING read it. It's called self control and respect.
And on the occasion that someone I don't get along with was asking for thoughts, prayers, needed some support and I could offer some, I'm a big enough person to set my differences aside and show them that support. Even though we don't get along. I know it's to much to ask of others to reciprocate so I won't, but it's some food for thought.

Take a look at TCNJCystic, Emily, Lilith... and a few others. They all said that they disagree with the situation or the statement on the end and WHY (no name calling, no bashing me or anyone else) but would keep us and the family in their thoughts/prayers. I don't see why others had such a problem doing something like this. I mean, If you don't want to pray and think about this family, fine. It's ok. but I don't need to be ripped apart for posting it.

 

[anonymous]

Julie, the "I don't care" part - saying you don't care if the Koran is destroyed or desecrated is hate speech. Just as much as hate speech as if someone posted up here that they didn't care if a cross or a Torah was destroyed or desecrated. I believe that hate speech is entirely inappropriate anywhere on this board - in the Adults section or the Off Topic section

I apologize for not getting my feelings focused on what upset me to begin with and getting caught up on where the post was made (tho even without the "I don't care" part I still see it as an Off Topic post). I read the topic originally because I too have friends serving in Iraq. I was so blown away by the words in your post that I didn't respond at all then. Then later was caught up in the thing as a "where should it be".

But really I don't think the "I don't care" part should be anywhere....and I have sent mail to the moderator to say so. Now you have the power to just delete that portion and keep the "Mark and I are stressed and need your support" part. I ask you to do that.

Now maybe you will and maybe you won't. Maybe the moderator will delete and maybe he won't.

Regardless, I believe your "I don't care" rant is hate speech. I think it is inappropriate. I complete disassociate myself from it.

I think it says a whole lot more about you than you can ever know.

I also think that if you said anything even resembling that speech outloud to a fellow US soldier of Islamic faith that your commanding officer would be all over you. That kind of hate speech is not acceptable for a US soldier to speak.

-LisaV