So confused....no diagnosis...stop looking?

M

mom2girls

Guest
Looking for confirmation my 8 year old daughter doesn't have cf. Wondering what is going on. Has environmental allergies (as shown on skin tests 2x). Diagnosed with asthma 2 yrs ago due to cough...no wheeze ever. Last school year had bacterial pneumonia in Sept (x-ray at er) and bacterial pneumonia in May (2 night hosp stay). Possible pneumonia in mid June...treated but no x-ray. In past has seen GI for possible reflux and genetics b/c she didn't sweat. Sweating has slowly started and they think possible connective tissue disorder.
Recurrent pneumonias have lead to numerous tests. She's been doing really well since increasing her advair....hardly any cough ever and much less wet/gunkiness in voice on daily basis.
She's had CT of lungs...clear. Sweat chloride test...low and not even close to borderline. Tested for trachea-esophageal fistula...clear. Swallow study...saw some liquids slow to clear but weren't worried. Scope at ENT...saw secretions around vocal cords but otherwise looked good. GI and pulm did scopes together....endoscopy normal--no signs of reflux or food allergies/celiac, pulm saw a lot of thick, sticky mucus and scope kept getting stuck in mucus. Cilia structually good (couldn't test fuction at this hosp). Found some bacteria or something likely from nose. Did methacholine challenge and found no asthma but lowish oxygen at the appt. During all of this, she had no symptoms. No symptoms but full of mucus and low-ish oxygen. So, giving 3 week course of strong antibiotic. If she has no symptoms but has all of this mucus and stuff during scope how do we know if it's always there and when it may become a problem again? She's taking allegra, singulair, flonase, advair, albuterol as needed and recently started using acapella (do huff coughs but not making her cough at all and doesn't sound gunky).
When do you stop looking and think maybe it was just a rough year? Or, do we owe it to our child to keep pursuing this? I hate putting her through all of these tests if there isn't anything to be found, but what if there is something? A friend told me how rarely people can have cf with normal sweat test. DDs pulm said we know she doesn't have cf. Her geneticist said her weight is good...sure doesn't look like cf. Yes, her weight has always been solid around 50%ile. Used to be 90 for height but now down to around 30%ile. After all of this testing, geneticist said they'll see if our insurance covers whole exome sequencing and then we can talk about possibly doing that. Wondering if that diagnoses that rare form of cf.
I guess main questions are, would you stop digging and enjoy her being asymptomatic right now? Anything jump out as being odd and that should be looked at further?
Thank you!
 

Rebjane

Super Moderator
Quick Question; was your daughter specifically genetically blood tested for the CF mutations and if so do you know how many CF mutations were screened?
 
M

mom2girls

Guest
No, she's had no CF testing except sweat chloride. Doctors said she doesn't have it b/c of those results and steady weight gain. I'm just a crazy mom who looks up things on internet if not 100% convinced or if still have questions in my head.
 

Rebjane

Super Moderator
Pretty sure there are over 1000 different CF mutations. Did your daughter have her sweat test at an accredidated CF center? I would get the CF blood mutation analysis done to rule out CF if it was my daughter. With your daughter's history, sounds like insurance would/should cover it.

When your daughter had pneumonia did they ever do a sputum culture?
 

Rebjane

Super Moderator
also, is the doctor ordering all these tests a pediatric CF specialist? If not; that is who your daughter needs to see.
 
M

mom2girls

Guest
Sweat test was done at accredited cf center...just looked to double check. :) Would the CF blood mutation analysis show if has CF or is it more detailed testing that would be needed to show it? I feel like I should be able to trust her doctors who say she doesn't have it........ but for I guess I'm not.
No, didn't ever to sputum culture. Actually didn't do anything accept x-ray while there. Oxygen was needed and given but no tests.
 

Rebjane

Super Moderator
Before the advent of genetic testing for CF, the sweat test was the"gold standard" for CF testing. Since CF is a genetic disease; the person with CF gets one mutation from the mom and one Cf mutation from the dad. When they do blood work for CF on your child they are looking for those 2 mutations; 2 mutation=CF. Like I said there are over 1000 CF mutations; typically they screen for the most common(more cost-effective). For example, my daughter had her screening for only 97 mutations she has 2 very common mutations. However, if you are having a hard time figuring out what is going on with her; I would push for the most complete CF mutation analysis for your peace of mind and to rule out a CF diagnosis.

I am sure others on this site can pipe in on the exact test name for gene testing. The testing may be expensive, but it is only one blood draw and it sounds like you are concerned and just trying to figure out what is best for your daughter.

I also am not sure how one can definitively diagnose pneumonia without obtaining a CXR. A sputum culture is helpful because people with CF tend to culture bacteria and it helps the doctor to decide what antibiotic to use.

HTH
 
M

mom2girls

Guest
I think I will contact her geneticist about the CF mutation analysis. It would give me peace of mind.
During daughter's bronchoscopy (when no symptoms), they did a bunch of cultures. Found bacteria they thought had colonized in noaw. It was a bacteria typically found in nose but hers was in lungs. They think it was brought down to lungs by the scope. Decided to treat due to low oxygen and all of the mucus seen. You're right, they did put her on a different antibiotic than what she'd been on for pneumonia due to the bacteria found.
Regarding pneumonia dx, I guess they were very confident by x-ray and symptoms. She had fever 105.6, vomiting periodically, pain when breathing/yawning, cough, oxygen 88 and x-ray. Antibiotics worked quickly both times. Maybe it wasn't taken care of fully in Sept and that's why another infection in May????
 

Ratatosk

Administrator
Staff member
Due to the weight loss, have they done a fecal fat test to determine pancreatic insufficiency. Also have they run cultures on her sputum to see if she cultures any typical cf bugs such as pseudomonas or steno. maltophilia.

I'd also like to add, based on personal experience, just because sweat tests are conducted at a facility with a CF Accredited clinic, doesn't mean they are handled by cf specialists. DS spent the first 4 weeks of his life in the NICU of a hospital with an accredited CF center. His sweat test was a normal 32. Granted he was a teeny tiny baby, but the result was only on one arm as they couldn't get a good enough sample.

IMO, keep pushing for answers. There's obviously something going on with your child and if not cf, then what?
 
M

mom2girls

Guest
Thank you. I agree that something must be going on even though she appears healthy right now. I sent a message to her geneticist asking if the CF mutation analysis would be part of the whole exome sequencing or different. Waiting for a response.
 

Printer

Active member
Thick, sticky mucus is a red flag for CF. The world is full of Doctors who can't spell CF much diagnose or treat it. She should be seen at an APPROVED CF CLINIC by an CF SPECIALIST. I have CF and I NEVER had a positive sweat test.

Partners runs the Massachusetts General Hospital and the Brigham and Woman's Hospital (both in Boston, both have approved CF Clinics. There are more than 6000 Doctors on staff combined at these two hospitals but less than 20 CF Specialists.

Additionally there are almost 2000 known mutations, and any two will cause CF. Anything less than a FULL CF SEQUENCING will not screen for all mutations.

If you need help finding an Approved CF Center, just tell us the largest city that you live near and we will help you.

Bill
 
M

mom2girls

Guest
Thank you for your help! We live in Milwaukee area. I believe Children's Hosp of Wisconsin is approved CF center. We don't see a CF specialist though as after her hospitalization in May we were told to see a pulmonlogist within 2 weeks so we took 1st appt we could get. Never switched b/c I wrongly assumed the doctor would refer us if she thought it was necessary but I've learned that doesn't happen.
 

wcherri

New member
Don't give up. I'm 46 years old with CF symptoms. One Delta F508 and one unknown CFTR mutation. My sweat tests are all over the place. I was diagnosed at age 4 with a positive sweat test, but as an adult I no longer test positive with sweat tests. I have seen specialists in three states and I've baffled all of them. All of my CF specialists agree that it is in my best interest to continue with my CF-related treatments base on my clinical symptoms. This year I was hospitalize twice due to CF-related symptoms. There's is not always a straight forward answer.

If you can get comprehensive genetic testing for CF, I highly recommend that you have the labs send to a research center (such as Hopkins). Also, look in to the CFF Mutation Analysis Program (MAP)
https://www.cff.org/PDF-Archive/Mutation-Analysis-Program/
If you qualify, you will not have to pay for the testing.
I hope you can get some answers.
 
M

mom2girls

Guest
Thank you for your encouragement and information. It looks like the MAP program is only for those diagnosed with CF. Still waiting to hear from geneticist.......
It's hard to believe what so many people go through. I guess it's hard for me to understand why doctors are so quick to rule out things knowing that it's not always so clear cut. Didn't they go into the profession to help people become and stay healthy? Seems it really is up to the patient and family to keep fighting and ignore those feelings of fear that the doctor will just think we're all hypochondriacs.
 
M

mom2girls

Guest
Well, still no word from geneticist. DD started her wet cough end of last week. We added 4 puffs albuterol every 4 hrs and acapella 2x/day over the weekend. Before going to school this am no coughing! So I guess even if no asthma or cf or any diagnosis, the "asthma action plan" pulmonolgist gave us is helping. Something is causing the inflammation and/or mucus though.
 
M

mom2girls

Guest
I believe our pulmonolgist is at an approved cf center. Children's hospital of Wisconsin. However, I know our pulm isn't a cf doctor. We see her next wk. I will talk to her about these concerns. Thanks for your encouragement.
 

Printer

Active member
I will bet with you that if you ask her "how many known mutations that cause CF are there" she will not know. I further bet that you have learned more about CF than she knows.
 
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