Tobi and the eFlow

[Alyssa]

<b>No, in no way did I want to jump down their throats</b> -- and I just returned to the computer to clarify what I had said (hopefully before anyone saw it) because it swirled in my head more after I walked away to do something else.....

<u>The connection I was having a hard time making was why would a hospital have anything to do with a patent</u>.... then it dawned on me how much research Children's does -- my brain was focused on the treatment & care we received at Children's, not the research they participate in. I had always envisioned when a patent was issued for a drug it was owned solely by the drug manufacturers. I now have a better understanding.

You are correct - I'm sure it was their involvement in the research and development of the drug years ago and I don't dispute the fact they deserve or are entitled to recoup their expenses -- I just never thought of them as being involved in patents before -- but it's not like I've ever really looked into it before - so it's probably very common for a research hospital... I'm just saying I never really thought about it before.

 

[Alyssa]

<b>No, in no way did I want to jump down their throats</b> -- and I just returned to the computer to clarify what I had said (hopefully before anyone saw it) because it swirled in my head more after I walked away to do something else.....

<u>The connection I was having a hard time making was why would a hospital have anything to do with a patent</u>.... then it dawned on me how much research Children's does -- my brain was focused on the treatment & care we received at Children's, not the research they participate in. I had always envisioned when a patent was issued for a drug it was owned solely by the drug manufacturers. I now have a better understanding.

You are correct - I'm sure it was their involvement in the research and development of the drug years ago and I don't dispute the fact they deserve or are entitled to recoup their expenses -- I just never thought of them as being involved in patents before -- but it's not like I've ever really looked into it before - so it's probably very common for a research hospital... I'm just saying I never really thought about it before.

 

[NoExcuses]

cool. I for one am grateful that your hospital particpated. if you know anyone who was involved in the research of clinical studies of TOBI at your hospital, please tell them amy in LA thanks them.

it's a hell of a drug, eFlow or no eFlow, and it has added many years to my life. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0"> <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0"> <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0">

 

[NoExcuses]

cool. I for one am grateful that your hospital particpated. if you know anyone who was involved in the research of clinical studies of TOBI at your hospital, please tell them amy in LA thanks them.

it's a hell of a drug, eFlow or no eFlow, and it has added many years to my life. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0"> <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0"> <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0">

 

[NoExcuses]

cool. I for one am grateful that your hospital particpated. if you know anyone who was involved in the research of clinical studies of TOBI at your hospital, please tell them amy in LA thanks them.

it's a hell of a drug, eFlow or no eFlow, and it has added many years to my life. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0"> <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0"> <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0">

 

[Landy]

Do you honestly think that the hospital/Chiron hasn't recouped their money by now? I'm not trying to be a smart butt, just curious. TOBI has been around for quite a few years...
I can understand that reason why they wouldn't want a generic (to recoup), but I also understand how much money they stand to loose if a generic is introduced. After all, pharmaceautical companies are not charitable organizations either.

Just for kicks, let's assume that half of the 30,000 CF people in the US use TOBI (totally random number). If they use if for 6 months out of the year at $3300 a month, that's $19,800. per person. Take that multiplied by the 15,000 people using TOBI & that's a cool $297 million (gross) a year they're making & that's just for one year & one country. I wonder how many hundred percentage points the mark up is per ampule of TOBI??
Just food for thought.

 

[Landy]

Do you honestly think that the hospital/Chiron hasn't recouped their money by now? I'm not trying to be a smart butt, just curious. TOBI has been around for quite a few years...
I can understand that reason why they wouldn't want a generic (to recoup), but I also understand how much money they stand to loose if a generic is introduced. After all, pharmaceautical companies are not charitable organizations either.

Just for kicks, let's assume that half of the 30,000 CF people in the US use TOBI (totally random number). If they use if for 6 months out of the year at $3300 a month, that's $19,800. per person. Take that multiplied by the 15,000 people using TOBI & that's a cool $297 million (gross) a year they're making & that's just for one year & one country. I wonder how many hundred percentage points the mark up is per ampule of TOBI??
Just food for thought.

 

[Landy]

Do you honestly think that the hospital/Chiron hasn't recouped their money by now? I'm not trying to be a smart butt, just curious. TOBI has been around for quite a few years...
I can understand that reason why they wouldn't want a generic (to recoup), but I also understand how much money they stand to loose if a generic is introduced. After all, pharmaceautical companies are not charitable organizations either.

Just for kicks, let's assume that half of the 30,000 CF people in the US use TOBI (totally random number). If they use if for 6 months out of the year at $3300 a month, that's $19,800. per person. Take that multiplied by the 15,000 people using TOBI & that's a cool $297 million (gross) a year they're making & that's just for one year & one country. I wonder how many hundred percentage points the mark up is per ampule of TOBI??
Just food for thought.

 

[dramamama]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>Lynda</b></i>


Just for kicks, let's assume that half of the 30,000 CF people in the US use TOBI (totally random number). If they use if for 6 months out of the year at $3300 a month, that's $19,800. per person. Take that multiplied by the 15,000 people using TOBI & that's a cool $297 million (gross) a year they're making & that's just for one year & one country. I wonder how many hundred percentage points the mark up is per ampule of TOBI??

Just food for thought.</end quote></div>

And let's remember when TOBI was introduced....1997. So for ten straight years they have been making (let's round it up) 300 million....that is 3 billion dollars in 10 years. My guess is they have recouped their costs for research, distribution, marketing and the like by a long way.

 

[dramamama]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>Lynda</b></i>


Just for kicks, let's assume that half of the 30,000 CF people in the US use TOBI (totally random number). If they use if for 6 months out of the year at $3300 a month, that's $19,800. per person. Take that multiplied by the 15,000 people using TOBI & that's a cool $297 million (gross) a year they're making & that's just for one year & one country. I wonder how many hundred percentage points the mark up is per ampule of TOBI??

Just food for thought.</end quote></div>

And let's remember when TOBI was introduced....1997. So for ten straight years they have been making (let's round it up) 300 million....that is 3 billion dollars in 10 years. My guess is they have recouped their costs for research, distribution, marketing and the like by a long way.

 

[dramamama]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>Lynda</b></i>


Just for kicks, let's assume that half of the 30,000 CF people in the US use TOBI (totally random number). If they use if for 6 months out of the year at $3300 a month, that's $19,800. per person. Take that multiplied by the 15,000 people using TOBI & that's a cool $297 million (gross) a year they're making & that's just for one year & one country. I wonder how many hundred percentage points the mark up is per ampule of TOBI??

Just food for thought.</end quote></div>

And let's remember when TOBI was introduced....1997. So for ten straight years they have been making (let's round it up) 300 million....that is 3 billion dollars in 10 years. My guess is they have recouped their costs for research, distribution, marketing and the like by a long way.

 

[NoExcuses]

1. Hardly anyone pays the cash price for TOBI. It's paid for mostly be 3rd parties which negociate their rates, usually 1/2 of the cash price.

2. No other country besides the US uses TOBI. Socialized medicine won't pay for it

3. You're assuming that your $300 million figure is pure profit. I'm going to cut that figure in 1/2 because wholesalers aren't paying that $3300/month. So let's work with a figure of $150million a year gross.

What about the manufacturing plants that run to ensure quality of the product?

How much did those machines cost to make? What about to keep sanity?

What about the people's salaries that are paid to monitor the machines so that they fit the variance per vial allowed by the FDA? Those workers have to have benefits, like insurance coverage. What does that cost?

What about the quality control department that the FDA requires Novartis to set up (Chiron was bought by Novaris, you know that, right?) to take & investigate calls about side effects?

How about shipping all these vials to wholesalers. how much does that cost? Pay the people to drive the trucks, or load intro trains. Then pay for fuel.

So out of that $150m gross, what do you want to say is net? $100 million. OK, $100 million. It's been out on the market for how many years? I think 10.

Fine, so $1billion gross. And for the past 5 years, they've been working on bringing TIP to the market. Same company. And they're using TOBI's profits to fund other R&D ventures within Novartis well. <u> This is how a company works </u>

Considering this drug is keeping one of the most virulent bacteria under control in our CF lungs, the mark up is decent. <b> And if your income is low, you receive the stuff for free. And if your co-pay is above a certain point, you get a co-pay reduction. </b>

Futher clarity on that food for thought you'd munching on....

 

[NoExcuses]

1. Hardly anyone pays the cash price for TOBI. It's paid for mostly be 3rd parties which negociate their rates, usually 1/2 of the cash price.

2. No other country besides the US uses TOBI. Socialized medicine won't pay for it

3. You're assuming that your $300 million figure is pure profit. I'm going to cut that figure in 1/2 because wholesalers aren't paying that $3300/month. So let's work with a figure of $150million a year gross.

What about the manufacturing plants that run to ensure quality of the product?

How much did those machines cost to make? What about to keep sanity?

What about the people's salaries that are paid to monitor the machines so that they fit the variance per vial allowed by the FDA? Those workers have to have benefits, like insurance coverage. What does that cost?

What about the quality control department that the FDA requires Novartis to set up (Chiron was bought by Novaris, you know that, right?) to take & investigate calls about side effects?

How about shipping all these vials to wholesalers. how much does that cost? Pay the people to drive the trucks, or load intro trains. Then pay for fuel.

So out of that $150m gross, what do you want to say is net? $100 million. OK, $100 million. It's been out on the market for how many years? I think 10.

Fine, so $1billion gross. And for the past 5 years, they've been working on bringing TIP to the market. Same company. And they're using TOBI's profits to fund other R&D ventures within Novartis well. <u> This is how a company works </u>

Considering this drug is keeping one of the most virulent bacteria under control in our CF lungs, the mark up is decent. <b> And if your income is low, you receive the stuff for free. And if your co-pay is above a certain point, you get a co-pay reduction. </b>

Futher clarity on that food for thought you'd munching on....

 

[NoExcuses]

1. Hardly anyone pays the cash price for TOBI. It's paid for mostly be 3rd parties which negociate their rates, usually 1/2 of the cash price.

2. No other country besides the US uses TOBI. Socialized medicine won't pay for it

3. You're assuming that your $300 million figure is pure profit. I'm going to cut that figure in 1/2 because wholesalers aren't paying that $3300/month. So let's work with a figure of $150million a year gross.

What about the manufacturing plants that run to ensure quality of the product?

How much did those machines cost to make? What about to keep sanity?

What about the people's salaries that are paid to monitor the machines so that they fit the variance per vial allowed by the FDA? Those workers have to have benefits, like insurance coverage. What does that cost?

What about the quality control department that the FDA requires Novartis to set up (Chiron was bought by Novaris, you know that, right?) to take & investigate calls about side effects?

How about shipping all these vials to wholesalers. how much does that cost? Pay the people to drive the trucks, or load intro trains. Then pay for fuel.

So out of that $150m gross, what do you want to say is net? $100 million. OK, $100 million. It's been out on the market for how many years? I think 10.

Fine, so $1billion gross. And for the past 5 years, they've been working on bringing TIP to the market. Same company. And they're using TOBI's profits to fund other R&D ventures within Novartis well. <u> This is how a company works </u>

Considering this drug is keeping one of the most virulent bacteria under control in our CF lungs, the mark up is decent. <b> And if your income is low, you receive the stuff for free. And if your co-pay is above a certain point, you get a co-pay reduction. </b>

Futher clarity on that food for thought you'd munching on....

 

[dramamama]

In 2006, the Group's businesses achieved net sales of USD 37.0 billion and <b>net income of USD 7.2 billion</b>. Approximately USD 5.4 billion was invested in R&D. Headquartered in Basel, Switzerland, Novartis Group companies employ approximately 101,000 associates and operate in over 140 countries around the world.

That is a hell of a big net.

 

[dramamama]

In 2006, the Group's businesses achieved net sales of USD 37.0 billion and <b>net income of USD 7.2 billion</b>. Approximately USD 5.4 billion was invested in R&D. Headquartered in Basel, Switzerland, Novartis Group companies employ approximately 101,000 associates and operate in over 140 countries around the world.

That is a hell of a big net.

 

[dramamama]

In 2006, the Group's businesses achieved net sales of USD 37.0 billion and <b>net income of USD 7.2 billion</b>. Approximately USD 5.4 billion was invested in R&D. Headquartered in Basel, Switzerland, Novartis Group companies employ approximately 101,000 associates and operate in over 140 countries around the world.

That is a hell of a big net.

 

[NoExcuses]

<b>5.4 billion invested in R&D, that you failed to highlight. </b> That's only 5 new drugs, as it takes $1 billion US to bring a drug to the market.

They will launch approximately 7 new drugs in 2007 and about 4 more in 2008. Some will be for cancer and neurological disorders.

 

[NoExcuses]

<b>5.4 billion invested in R&D, that you failed to highlight. </b> That's only 5 new drugs, as it takes $1 billion US to bring a drug to the market.

They will launch approximately 7 new drugs in 2007 and about 4 more in 2008. Some will be for cancer and neurological disorders.

 

[NoExcuses]

<b>5.4 billion invested in R&D, that you failed to highlight. </b> That's only 5 new drugs, as it takes $1 billion US to bring a drug to the market.

They will launch approximately 7 new drugs in 2007 and about 4 more in 2008. Some will be for cancer and neurological disorders.