Carryover from another topic

[lightNlife]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>dyza</b></i>

I quite enjoyed your metaphor of the toaster. My opinion on the matter.....I'm sitting on the fence, but kind of leaning to one side, which side? On LightNlife's side.... in fact its more of a 5% list rather than a leaning.

I also enjoyed the Stereo metaphor..... I dont really know where I sit on the fence.</end quote></div>

LOL. Come to this side of the fence. The grass is greener (mostly because there are fewer people eating it!)

 

[lightNlife]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>dyza</b></i>

I quite enjoyed your metaphor of the toaster. My opinion on the matter.....I'm sitting on the fence, but kind of leaning to one side, which side? On LightNlife's side.... in fact its more of a 5% list rather than a leaning.

I also enjoyed the Stereo metaphor..... I dont really know where I sit on the fence.</end quote></div>

LOL. Come to this side of the fence. The grass is greener (mostly because there are fewer people eating it!)

 

[littledebbie]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>lightNlife</b></i>

On the other hand, methods like IVF is like trying to make toast in a toaster that has a broken lever, AND isn't even plugged in. It can't be done. So, IVF is like browning the bread in the oven, then throwing it in the broken toaster and pretending that the toaster worked in the first place. Using the oven instead of the toaster, is an OFF SITE solution (EX SITU).</end quote></div>


LOL!!!! I actually was picturing someone doing that, browning the bread and then throwing into the toaster!!! Ha...oh too funny.

I think I lean towards lightNlife's grassy yard on this topic but I have zero judgement for people who do IVF. I think it's a thing that I am sort of...case by case on.

 

[littledebbie]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>lightNlife</b></i>

On the other hand, methods like IVF is like trying to make toast in a toaster that has a broken lever, AND isn't even plugged in. It can't be done. So, IVF is like browning the bread in the oven, then throwing it in the broken toaster and pretending that the toaster worked in the first place. Using the oven instead of the toaster, is an OFF SITE solution (EX SITU).</end quote></div>


LOL!!!! I actually was picturing someone doing that, browning the bread and then throwing into the toaster!!! Ha...oh too funny.

I think I lean towards lightNlife's grassy yard on this topic but I have zero judgement for people who do IVF. I think it's a thing that I am sort of...case by case on.

 

[littledebbie]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>lightNlife</b></i>

On the other hand, methods like IVF is like trying to make toast in a toaster that has a broken lever, AND isn't even plugged in. It can't be done. So, IVF is like browning the bread in the oven, then throwing it in the broken toaster and pretending that the toaster worked in the first place. Using the oven instead of the toaster, is an OFF SITE solution (EX SITU).</end quote></div>


LOL!!!! I actually was picturing someone doing that, browning the bread and then throwing into the toaster!!! Ha...oh too funny.

I think I lean towards lightNlife's grassy yard on this topic but I have zero judgement for people who do IVF. I think it's a thing that I am sort of...case by case on.

 

[elrustad]

This is a very touchy subject.

What I believe in is that if there is a way to do things then use it. We have people working very hard in the medical field to help people live longer and healthier lives. That is why we have medicines to help us.

But the part of being healthy is just more than physical aspects to it. You need to be emotionally healthy also. One part of the emotional part is to have a family it is part of being human.

So for some IVF is a way to fulfill that part of their health. For me it was IUI with donor sperm.

While my wife and I were trying to have children it was difficult on us. At the time in 1997 I did not know that I had CF. My wife that everything was her fault. Very hard time in our marriage. So we did some test on me and found out I had no swimmers. So I was refered to go to the University of MN Urology. When I went I found out that I had CBAVD. So then Urology sent me to get tested for CF. The sweat test was borderline. So then they tested me and found out through CF Test that I had CF. I found out on my 26th birthday that I had CF and they only way to have children will be IVF, IUI with doner sperm, or adoptions.

Jamie and I chose IUI. Now we have four wonderful children and a great life with each other and our children.

As I said earlier, if it is there then use it. Good health brings great living.

 

[elrustad]

This is a very touchy subject.

What I believe in is that if there is a way to do things then use it. We have people working very hard in the medical field to help people live longer and healthier lives. That is why we have medicines to help us.

But the part of being healthy is just more than physical aspects to it. You need to be emotionally healthy also. One part of the emotional part is to have a family it is part of being human.

So for some IVF is a way to fulfill that part of their health. For me it was IUI with donor sperm.

While my wife and I were trying to have children it was difficult on us. At the time in 1997 I did not know that I had CF. My wife that everything was her fault. Very hard time in our marriage. So we did some test on me and found out I had no swimmers. So I was refered to go to the University of MN Urology. When I went I found out that I had CBAVD. So then Urology sent me to get tested for CF. The sweat test was borderline. So then they tested me and found out through CF Test that I had CF. I found out on my 26th birthday that I had CF and they only way to have children will be IVF, IUI with doner sperm, or adoptions.

Jamie and I chose IUI. Now we have four wonderful children and a great life with each other and our children.

As I said earlier, if it is there then use it. Good health brings great living.

 

[elrustad]

This is a very touchy subject.

What I believe in is that if there is a way to do things then use it. We have people working very hard in the medical field to help people live longer and healthier lives. That is why we have medicines to help us.

But the part of being healthy is just more than physical aspects to it. You need to be emotionally healthy also. One part of the emotional part is to have a family it is part of being human.

So for some IVF is a way to fulfill that part of their health. For me it was IUI with donor sperm.

While my wife and I were trying to have children it was difficult on us. At the time in 1997 I did not know that I had CF. My wife that everything was her fault. Very hard time in our marriage. So we did some test on me and found out I had no swimmers. So I was refered to go to the University of MN Urology. When I went I found out that I had CBAVD. So then Urology sent me to get tested for CF. The sweat test was borderline. So then they tested me and found out through CF Test that I had CF. I found out on my 26th birthday that I had CF and they only way to have children will be IVF, IUI with doner sperm, or adoptions.

Jamie and I chose IUI. Now we have four wonderful children and a great life with each other and our children.

As I said earlier, if it is there then use it. Good health brings great living.

 

[julie]

I have to agree with Fred's point about the Pulmozyme.

Additionally, antibiotics have only come about BY the maniuplation of medical technology both inside and outside the body, the tweaking of doseages and combinations to get things just right, try and fail, try and succeed... Therefore, for me, the IVF and the use of antibiotics, choice to have a transplant... are morally one in the same.

And about the children, no children issue... I reserve no judgements either way. Whether it be no children is right for you, adoption is right for you, donor sperm or eggs are right for you.... it's a very individual choice and what works for one doesn't always work for the other.

I also refuse to be judged or rather, bothered by those who might choose to judge me because of my decision to do IVF. There are a signifigant amount of multiple births that occur each year as a result of the body NATURALLY creating them. on my Triplet Forum, it's about 50/50... I'm not a better or less parent for it. And I can't imainge a moment of my life without my babies, even though I found Cassie playing in her spit up last night light it was the greatest thing on earth <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0">, LOL (she rolled herself onto her tummy and was so happy to be there, she was content in playing in her own puke- YUCK!). Triplets were given to Mark and I for a reason, and although some days are tough, I know I am so lucky.

I still think though, even after re-reading all the posts on this thread, that the bottom line of things like a transplant, IVF and antibiotics/medications, technological treatments for what ails you, are ONE IN THE SAME when you get down to the nitty gritty of it.

 

[julie]

I have to agree with Fred's point about the Pulmozyme.

Additionally, antibiotics have only come about BY the maniuplation of medical technology both inside and outside the body, the tweaking of doseages and combinations to get things just right, try and fail, try and succeed... Therefore, for me, the IVF and the use of antibiotics, choice to have a transplant... are morally one in the same.

And about the children, no children issue... I reserve no judgements either way. Whether it be no children is right for you, adoption is right for you, donor sperm or eggs are right for you.... it's a very individual choice and what works for one doesn't always work for the other.

I also refuse to be judged or rather, bothered by those who might choose to judge me because of my decision to do IVF. There are a signifigant amount of multiple births that occur each year as a result of the body NATURALLY creating them. on my Triplet Forum, it's about 50/50... I'm not a better or less parent for it. And I can't imainge a moment of my life without my babies, even though I found Cassie playing in her spit up last night light it was the greatest thing on earth <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0">, LOL (she rolled herself onto her tummy and was so happy to be there, she was content in playing in her own puke- YUCK!). Triplets were given to Mark and I for a reason, and although some days are tough, I know I am so lucky.

I still think though, even after re-reading all the posts on this thread, that the bottom line of things like a transplant, IVF and antibiotics/medications, technological treatments for what ails you, are ONE IN THE SAME when you get down to the nitty gritty of it.

 

[julie]

I have to agree with Fred's point about the Pulmozyme.

Additionally, antibiotics have only come about BY the maniuplation of medical technology both inside and outside the body, the tweaking of doseages and combinations to get things just right, try and fail, try and succeed... Therefore, for me, the IVF and the use of antibiotics, choice to have a transplant... are morally one in the same.

And about the children, no children issue... I reserve no judgements either way. Whether it be no children is right for you, adoption is right for you, donor sperm or eggs are right for you.... it's a very individual choice and what works for one doesn't always work for the other.

I also refuse to be judged or rather, bothered by those who might choose to judge me because of my decision to do IVF. There are a signifigant amount of multiple births that occur each year as a result of the body NATURALLY creating them. on my Triplet Forum, it's about 50/50... I'm not a better or less parent for it. And I can't imainge a moment of my life without my babies, even though I found Cassie playing in her spit up last night light it was the greatest thing on earth <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0">, LOL (she rolled herself onto her tummy and was so happy to be there, she was content in playing in her own puke- YUCK!). Triplets were given to Mark and I for a reason, and although some days are tough, I know I am so lucky.

I still think though, even after re-reading all the posts on this thread, that the bottom line of things like a transplant, IVF and antibiotics/medications, technological treatments for what ails you, are ONE IN THE SAME when you get down to the nitty gritty of it.

 

[TCNJcystic]

I thought I'd add my two cents here, but I'll probably just be biting off more than I can chew.

I do not believe the gene will ever be eradicated. Mutation...recessiveness and all that jazz that has already been touched upon. The gene itself will never disappear. Does that mean that we have a free pass to pass it along though?

I do not mean to offend any CFer who has had their own children using their own genes, I think it's wonderful that you've thoughtfully and often prayfully come to that decision. For the purpose of discussion, though, I have to wonder if knowingly passing on a deadly gene to future generations is the right thing to do. Even it is is not my child who winds up with CF, I would not want to be responsible for my great great great whomever having CF because I wanted to fulfill what comes off as a selfish need for reproduction.

It is a crime to willingly pass on HIV to an unknowing sexual partner, and while the differences here are profound, the similarities are hard to ignore.

Anyway, it's just something to think about. I'll probably wind up doing IVF one day, too. Sorry if I offended anyone, especially Julie and Mark. I mean to be as respectful as possible.

 

[TCNJcystic]

I thought I'd add my two cents here, but I'll probably just be biting off more than I can chew.

I do not believe the gene will ever be eradicated. Mutation...recessiveness and all that jazz that has already been touched upon. The gene itself will never disappear. Does that mean that we have a free pass to pass it along though?

I do not mean to offend any CFer who has had their own children using their own genes, I think it's wonderful that you've thoughtfully and often prayfully come to that decision. For the purpose of discussion, though, I have to wonder if knowingly passing on a deadly gene to future generations is the right thing to do. Even it is is not my child who winds up with CF, I would not want to be responsible for my great great great whomever having CF because I wanted to fulfill what comes off as a selfish need for reproduction.

It is a crime to willingly pass on HIV to an unknowing sexual partner, and while the differences here are profound, the similarities are hard to ignore.

Anyway, it's just something to think about. I'll probably wind up doing IVF one day, too. Sorry if I offended anyone, especially Julie and Mark. I mean to be as respectful as possible.

 

[TCNJcystic]

I thought I'd add my two cents here, but I'll probably just be biting off more than I can chew.

I do not believe the gene will ever be eradicated. Mutation...recessiveness and all that jazz that has already been touched upon. The gene itself will never disappear. Does that mean that we have a free pass to pass it along though?

I do not mean to offend any CFer who has had their own children using their own genes, I think it's wonderful that you've thoughtfully and often prayfully come to that decision. For the purpose of discussion, though, I have to wonder if knowingly passing on a deadly gene to future generations is the right thing to do. Even it is is not my child who winds up with CF, I would not want to be responsible for my great great great whomever having CF because I wanted to fulfill what comes off as a selfish need for reproduction.

It is a crime to willingly pass on HIV to an unknowing sexual partner, and while the differences here are profound, the similarities are hard to ignore.

Anyway, it's just something to think about. I'll probably wind up doing IVF one day, too. Sorry if I offended anyone, especially Julie and Mark. I mean to be as respectful as possible.

 

[littledebbie]

This is a tough topic to comment on. I know it's so personal to everyone so yes I have an opinion but since I have never personally made this decision for myself it seems really stupid and hypocritical to go running my mouth.

I will say <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0"> That we make a lot of decisions is our life that people are going to judge and sometimes they will be delightful enough to SHARE that judgement with us. Joy. So I think it is important to realize that at the time you are making your decisions and make peace with the fact that you are just going to have to deal with the judgement as you go. It's not fair but such is life.

I have had to make a few such decisions. Some I feel okay with discussing and trying to educate others about what motivated my decision etc. other such decisions I feel are private and personal and if someone makes the mistake of trying to bring it up for discussion (ie share their charming judgement) I verbally smack them in the head with a frying pan. The most important thing for me is that I know how I feel about my decisions and I am quite confident in my choices and I'm not remotely moved by others judgement regarding them.

Julie, to you I would like to say. Obviously I can see why this IVF issue is important to you. I think you have 3 adorable babies (who are getting so big by the way...ahhhhh!) and I hope you never let anyone's judgement about how they came to be cause you a minutes worth of aggravation. However, I think this thread is a bit of an excerice of aggravation because it an invitation to judge and really there is no comparing it to tx or antibiodics. One brings new little people into your life and builds your family and fullfills your dreams. The others are just treatments available to people who are already here who are in need of treatments to stay healthy-ish <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif" border="0"> It seems like apples and oranges to me. Actually apples oranges and banannas...because I don't think tx and antibiodics are in the same category either.

 

[littledebbie]

This is a tough topic to comment on. I know it's so personal to everyone so yes I have an opinion but since I have never personally made this decision for myself it seems really stupid and hypocritical to go running my mouth.

I will say <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0"> That we make a lot of decisions is our life that people are going to judge and sometimes they will be delightful enough to SHARE that judgement with us. Joy. So I think it is important to realize that at the time you are making your decisions and make peace with the fact that you are just going to have to deal with the judgement as you go. It's not fair but such is life.

I have had to make a few such decisions. Some I feel okay with discussing and trying to educate others about what motivated my decision etc. other such decisions I feel are private and personal and if someone makes the mistake of trying to bring it up for discussion (ie share their charming judgement) I verbally smack them in the head with a frying pan. The most important thing for me is that I know how I feel about my decisions and I am quite confident in my choices and I'm not remotely moved by others judgement regarding them.

Julie, to you I would like to say. Obviously I can see why this IVF issue is important to you. I think you have 3 adorable babies (who are getting so big by the way...ahhhhh!) and I hope you never let anyone's judgement about how they came to be cause you a minutes worth of aggravation. However, I think this thread is a bit of an excerice of aggravation because it an invitation to judge and really there is no comparing it to tx or antibiodics. One brings new little people into your life and builds your family and fullfills your dreams. The others are just treatments available to people who are already here who are in need of treatments to stay healthy-ish <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif" border="0"> It seems like apples and oranges to me. Actually apples oranges and banannas...because I don't think tx and antibiodics are in the same category either.

 

[littledebbie]

This is a tough topic to comment on. I know it's so personal to everyone so yes I have an opinion but since I have never personally made this decision for myself it seems really stupid and hypocritical to go running my mouth.

I will say <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0"> That we make a lot of decisions is our life that people are going to judge and sometimes they will be delightful enough to SHARE that judgement with us. Joy. So I think it is important to realize that at the time you are making your decisions and make peace with the fact that you are just going to have to deal with the judgement as you go. It's not fair but such is life.

I have had to make a few such decisions. Some I feel okay with discussing and trying to educate others about what motivated my decision etc. other such decisions I feel are private and personal and if someone makes the mistake of trying to bring it up for discussion (ie share their charming judgement) I verbally smack them in the head with a frying pan. The most important thing for me is that I know how I feel about my decisions and I am quite confident in my choices and I'm not remotely moved by others judgement regarding them.

Julie, to you I would like to say. Obviously I can see why this IVF issue is important to you. I think you have 3 adorable babies (who are getting so big by the way...ahhhhh!) and I hope you never let anyone's judgement about how they came to be cause you a minutes worth of aggravation. However, I think this thread is a bit of an excerice of aggravation because it an invitation to judge and really there is no comparing it to tx or antibiodics. One brings new little people into your life and builds your family and fullfills your dreams. The others are just treatments available to people who are already here who are in need of treatments to stay healthy-ish <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif" border="0"> It seems like apples and oranges to me. Actually apples oranges and banannas...because I don't think tx and antibiodics are in the same category either.

 

[julie]

No offense taken on my end Steve. I understand both sides of the fence here. Don't necessairly agree with the other side, but can understand..... <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0">

Debbie, Thanks for the compliments on the kiddo's. I guess I've felt this way before about passing on the mutation, as we all know the argument has been presented many times on the board, especially for us old timers, LOL, but I've never really really joined in the discussion or banter of it. THis time I just felt the need to express myself, maybe for my own "working through it" sort of thing.

Either way, it seems to be a fairly civil discussion and by no means have I been offended, I hope my posts didn't imply that...

 

[julie]

No offense taken on my end Steve. I understand both sides of the fence here. Don't necessairly agree with the other side, but can understand..... <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0">

Debbie, Thanks for the compliments on the kiddo's. I guess I've felt this way before about passing on the mutation, as we all know the argument has been presented many times on the board, especially for us old timers, LOL, but I've never really really joined in the discussion or banter of it. THis time I just felt the need to express myself, maybe for my own "working through it" sort of thing.

Either way, it seems to be a fairly civil discussion and by no means have I been offended, I hope my posts didn't imply that...

 

[julie]

No offense taken on my end Steve. I understand both sides of the fence here. Don't necessairly agree with the other side, but can understand..... <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0">

Debbie, Thanks for the compliments on the kiddo's. I guess I've felt this way before about passing on the mutation, as we all know the argument has been presented many times on the board, especially for us old timers, LOL, but I've never really really joined in the discussion or banter of it. THis time I just felt the need to express myself, maybe for my own "working through it" sort of thing.

Either way, it seems to be a fairly civil discussion and by no means have I been offended, I hope my posts didn't imply that...