Men with CF who have had children using ICSI

J

julie

New member
Twist... ICSI is actually a "manipulation" technique, so by all means, it's not unreasonable to fathom that something could have been affected/changed by the use of the ICSI procedure. However, that's not what he's asking here.
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<br />Blacky, honestly I think AU's medical expertise is WAY ahead of the US'. IVF has been around a while for us, but ICSI is really only in the last decade or so. Those of us with little boys (and I've got two) will probably be contacting you in our boys' teen years to see the outcome for your boys (does that make sense?).
 
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blackchameleon

New member
Just to clarify things a little.
I had my sperm harvested using a technique called MESA (microsurgical epididymal sperm aspiration) & ICSI (intracytoplasmic sperm injection to assist fertilization) was used to fertilize the eggs my wife had collected. I'm still looking into it however it seems to me that CBAVD is a stuff up on chromosome 7 and i'm no great genetic scientist, so would just love to hear of an infertile man due to CBAVD, who also has CF, having had a son old enough to know for sure if he has swimmers or not! Maybe mine will first, who knows, but one things for sure, what will be will be hey! Blacky
"AUT VINCERE, AUT MORI"
 
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blackchameleon

New member
Just to clarify things a little.
I had my sperm harvested using a technique called MESA (microsurgical epididymal sperm aspiration) & ICSI (intracytoplasmic sperm injection to assist fertilization) was used to fertilize the eggs my wife had collected. I'm still looking into it however it seems to me that CBAVD is a stuff up on chromosome 7 and i'm no great genetic scientist, so would just love to hear of an infertile man due to CBAVD, who also has CF, having had a son old enough to know for sure if he has swimmers or not! Maybe mine will first, who knows, but one things for sure, what will be will be hey! Blacky
"AUT VINCERE, AUT MORI"
 
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blackchameleon

New member
Just to clarify things a little.
<br />I had my sperm harvested using a technique called MESA (microsurgical epididymal sperm aspiration) & ICSI (intracytoplasmic sperm injection to assist fertilization) was used to fertilize the eggs my wife had collected. I'm still looking into it however it seems to me that CBAVD is a stuff up on chromosome 7 and i'm no great genetic scientist, so would just love to hear of an infertile man due to CBAVD, who also has CF, having had a son old enough to know for sure if he has swimmers or not! Maybe mine will first, who knows, but one things for sure, what will be will be hey! Blacky
<br />"AUT VINCERE, AUT MORI"
 
H

Havoc

New member
I said "I think" because I am not a fertility expert. Everything I read (peer reviewed journals)stated that, with proper screening, risks for birth defects were on par of that a natural conception. Nowhere could I find information that CBAVD would absolutely be passed on to offspring of men who had CF and conceived via ICSI. I did find that there is an increased incidence of CBAVD with the R117H mutation (even heterozygotes), so if you son has that mutation, there may be an increases risk.

In a 1995 study, 8 boys born to CBAVD fathers through ICSI had palpable vas deferens. As I mentioned before one can never be certain. Which is why I suggested an exam and possible sperm count when they are old enough to understand.

I would also suggest that if you are looking for the "marrow of the truth" you read studies and peer reviewed journals as is my practice when answering questions on this site. Obviously, most of us are not physicians, but I do not just spit out the first thing that comes to mind when responding to a serious question. If you are looking for expert opinion, this site is not the place. Call the physician that did your ICSI and ask.
 
H

Havoc

New member
I said "I think" because I am not a fertility expert. Everything I read (peer reviewed journals)stated that, with proper screening, risks for birth defects were on par of that a natural conception. Nowhere could I find information that CBAVD would absolutely be passed on to offspring of men who had CF and conceived via ICSI. I did find that there is an increased incidence of CBAVD with the R117H mutation (even heterozygotes), so if you son has that mutation, there may be an increases risk.

In a 1995 study, 8 boys born to CBAVD fathers through ICSI had palpable vas deferens. As I mentioned before one can never be certain. Which is why I suggested an exam and possible sperm count when they are old enough to understand.

I would also suggest that if you are looking for the "marrow of the truth" you read studies and peer reviewed journals as is my practice when answering questions on this site. Obviously, most of us are not physicians, but I do not just spit out the first thing that comes to mind when responding to a serious question. If you are looking for expert opinion, this site is not the place. Call the physician that did your ICSI and ask.
 
H

Havoc

New member
I said "I think" because I am not a fertility expert. Everything I read (peer reviewed journals)stated that, with proper screening, risks for birth defects were on par of that a natural conception. Nowhere could I find information that CBAVD would absolutely be passed on to offspring of men who had CF and conceived via ICSI. I did find that there is an increased incidence of CBAVD with the R117H mutation (even heterozygotes), so if you son has that mutation, there may be an increases risk.
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<br />In a 1995 study, 8 boys born to CBAVD fathers through ICSI had palpable vas deferens. As I mentioned before one can never be certain. Which is why I suggested an exam and possible sperm count when they are old enough to understand.
<br />
<br />I would also suggest that if you are looking for the "marrow of the truth" you read studies and peer reviewed journals as is my practice when answering questions on this site. Obviously, most of us are not physicians, but I do not just spit out the first thing that comes to mind when responding to a serious question. If you are looking for expert opinion, this site is not the place. Call the physician that did your ICSI and ask.
 
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blackchameleon

New member
Hey Havoc, all i'm looking for on this site re my question is "is there any man with CF out there, who went through IVF due to CBAVD, had a little boy that has grown into a man and done a sperm count". Simple really mate, i never asked for your opinion or thoughts. You suggest I read studies and peer review journals, and further add this is not the site for expert opinion. I do read and research in the ways you suggest, and heavily in the areas that concern me, i just cannot find info that answers my exact question, maybe it has not happened yet and like Julie said, people will be asking me about my two sons and how their sperm counts turned out. I figure this is a perfect site to ask my question Havoc, so if would like to be a critique (which i'm suggesting you fancy yourself as) then get your facts straight mate. You state-
"If you are looking for expert opinion, this site is not the place. Call the physician that did your ICSI and ask"
I'm not looking for an opinion quite clearly, although you somehow misunderstood this! I'm asking for marrow of truth and comparing apples with apples. Maybe i have to wait until my boys are a tad older, and when they are do a sperm count before there will be a definitive answer with regards my question. I have faith they will be fine, and i hope one day i'm a GRANDAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. Frankly, experts were of the opinion i would never have children at one time and that CF was going to shorten my life to under 30 years of age, thats why im after MARROW OF TRUTH.
Having said that i do respect your passion for delving into the research field as you do and believe you have the ability to encourage and inspire others using your high intellect. If i want an informed opinion on a subject i would absolutely value your minds thoughts and learnings Havoc, you have an outrageous talent in this area, in my opinion....
 
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blackchameleon

New member
Hey Havoc, all i'm looking for on this site re my question is "is there any man with CF out there, who went through IVF due to CBAVD, had a little boy that has grown into a man and done a sperm count". Simple really mate, i never asked for your opinion or thoughts. You suggest I read studies and peer review journals, and further add this is not the site for expert opinion. I do read and research in the ways you suggest, and heavily in the areas that concern me, i just cannot find info that answers my exact question, maybe it has not happened yet and like Julie said, people will be asking me about my two sons and how their sperm counts turned out. I figure this is a perfect site to ask my question Havoc, so if would like to be a critique (which i'm suggesting you fancy yourself as) then get your facts straight mate. You state-
"If you are looking for expert opinion, this site is not the place. Call the physician that did your ICSI and ask"
I'm not looking for an opinion quite clearly, although you somehow misunderstood this! I'm asking for marrow of truth and comparing apples with apples. Maybe i have to wait until my boys are a tad older, and when they are do a sperm count before there will be a definitive answer with regards my question. I have faith they will be fine, and i hope one day i'm a GRANDAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. Frankly, experts were of the opinion i would never have children at one time and that CF was going to shorten my life to under 30 years of age, thats why im after MARROW OF TRUTH.
Having said that i do respect your passion for delving into the research field as you do and believe you have the ability to encourage and inspire others using your high intellect. If i want an informed opinion on a subject i would absolutely value your minds thoughts and learnings Havoc, you have an outrageous talent in this area, in my opinion....
 
B

blackchameleon

New member
Hey Havoc, all i'm looking for on this site re my question is "is there any man with CF out there, who went through IVF due to CBAVD, had a little boy that has grown into a man and done a sperm count". Simple really mate, i never asked for your opinion or thoughts. You suggest I read studies and peer review journals, and further add this is not the site for expert opinion. I do read and research in the ways you suggest, and heavily in the areas that concern me, i just cannot find info that answers my exact question, maybe it has not happened yet and like Julie said, people will be asking me about my two sons and how their sperm counts turned out. I figure this is a perfect site to ask my question Havoc, so if would like to be a critique (which i'm suggesting you fancy yourself as) then get your facts straight mate. You state-
<br />"If you are looking for expert opinion, this site is not the place. Call the physician that did your ICSI and ask"
<br />I'm not looking for an opinion quite clearly, although you somehow misunderstood this! I'm asking for marrow of truth and comparing apples with apples. Maybe i have to wait until my boys are a tad older, and when they are do a sperm count before there will be a definitive answer with regards my question. I have faith they will be fine, and i hope one day i'm a GRANDAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. Frankly, experts were of the opinion i would never have children at one time and that CF was going to shorten my life to under 30 years of age, thats why im after MARROW OF TRUTH.
<br />Having said that i do respect your passion for delving into the research field as you do and believe you have the ability to encourage and inspire others using your high intellect. If i want an informed opinion on a subject i would absolutely value your minds thoughts and learnings Havoc, you have an outrageous talent in this area, in my opinion....
 
J

julie

New member
YIKES Havoc, he was looking for a "personal experience" answer here. and in that case, this is DEFINITELY the proper place for him to be coming. Calm down dear
 
J

julie

New member
YIKES Havoc, he was looking for a "personal experience" answer here. and in that case, this is DEFINITELY the proper place for him to be coming. Calm down dear
 
J

julie

New member
YIKES Havoc, he was looking for a "personal experience" answer here. and in that case, this is DEFINITELY the proper place for him to be coming. Calm down dear
 
H

Havoc

New member
I apologize. When I have a question, I want facts, case studies, etc. Which is my typical response in my answers. In the future I will not bother pouring over a dozen or so studies unless specifically asked.

Blacky, one of the reasons that I went into such technical detail is that in your previous post you asked me if I had any clinical proof to back up my statement, questioning whether I was just making a presumption. When, in fact, I had already looked at several case studies. But with the relative uncertainty, I changed my verbiage to "I think" and added the bit about having a sperm count done when appropriate.

So, in my particular case, you did ask for clinical data and not first hand experience.
 
H

Havoc

New member
I apologize. When I have a question, I want facts, case studies, etc. Which is my typical response in my answers. In the future I will not bother pouring over a dozen or so studies unless specifically asked.

Blacky, one of the reasons that I went into such technical detail is that in your previous post you asked me if I had any clinical proof to back up my statement, questioning whether I was just making a presumption. When, in fact, I had already looked at several case studies. But with the relative uncertainty, I changed my verbiage to "I think" and added the bit about having a sperm count done when appropriate.

So, in my particular case, you did ask for clinical data and not first hand experience.
 
H

Havoc

New member
I apologize. When I have a question, I want facts, case studies, etc. Which is my typical response in my answers. In the future I will not bother pouring over a dozen or so studies unless specifically asked.
<br />
<br />Blacky, one of the reasons that I went into such technical detail is that in your previous post you asked me if I had any clinical proof to back up my statement, questioning whether I was just making a presumption. When, in fact, I had already looked at several case studies. But with the relative uncertainty, I changed my verbiage to "I think" and added the bit about having a sperm count done when appropriate.
<br />
<br />So, in my particular case, you did ask for clinical data and not first hand experience.
 
J

julie

New member
Pretty sure, based on the wording of his initial question and his posts following that when he said, "clinical proof" to you, he wanted to know if you PERSONALLY knew of any clinical situations. I mean, in his initial post he came here asking if any others who had fathered children via ICSI could answer his questions.
 
J

julie

New member
Pretty sure, based on the wording of his initial question and his posts following that when he said, "clinical proof" to you, he wanted to know if you PERSONALLY knew of any clinical situations. I mean, in his initial post he came here asking if any others who had fathered children via ICSI could answer his questions.
 
J

julie

New member
Pretty sure, based on the wording of his initial question and his posts following that when he said, "clinical proof" to you, he wanted to know if you PERSONALLY knew of any clinical situations. I mean, in his initial post he came here asking if any others who had fathered children via ICSI could answer his questions.
 
H

Havoc

New member
Oh ok, how about we let Blacky speak for himself, eh? My post was addressed to him and not you.
 
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