walked away from God

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Mockingbird

New member
<blockquote>Quote<br><hr><i>Originally posted by: <b>Allie</b></i><br>OKay, perhaps I'm explaining it badly. The way to get to heaven in Judaism is to lead a righteous life. Jew or non-Jew. People who profess to be religious and do horrible things, even if they are the most devout Jew ever (on paper, any truly devout Jew wouldn't do such things) would not get into heaven. People who do good and righteous things go to heaven, if if their beliefs are slightly off. They will be corrected, but if they are truly good they will not be sent to Hell. Ethical behavior is the most important thing. And Judaism provides the best guide to leading an ethical life, in my opinion. This is why we don't feel the need to evangelize. We don't feel that differnt beliefs automatically confine you to hell.

I understand what you're saying regarding Christians, but my personal thought is that your beliefs are only a sector of yourself. What you DO is more important. <hr></blockquote>

But then we're back to the first law. I've noticed some people word it as, "Do not worship false gods/idols" while others word it as "You must worship the one, true God." If our beliefs are not so important, then what is the reason for this law? According to what you say, acceptance of God is not essential to leading a righteous life, so then wouldn't that nullify the first law?
 
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anonymous

New member
who made these laws and decided they were laws!!!! PEOPLE not god!!!! all religion is man made to produce fear and conduct order!! your all under a form of control
 
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anonymous

New member
who made these laws and decided they were laws!!!! PEOPLE not god!!!! all religion is man made to produce fear and conduct order!! your all under a form of control
 
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Allie

New member
Oh, shut up. I'll address you when and if you have a name and a sense of capitalization. Learn the difference between you're and your while you're at it.
 
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Allie

New member
Oh, shut up. I'll address you when and if you have a name and a sense of capitalization. Learn the difference between you're and your while you're at it.
 
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Allie

New member
Allright, here's the best way I can try to put it Mockingbird, we're going around in circles and I don't know what you want to hear.

In Christianity you have the law "thou shalt not kill" right? Important law, yes? But you think you go to heaven based on your belief in the divinity of Jesus. That does not nullify the first law, but the belief in Jesus trumps it.

SImilar idea. If you contribute to the world and are righteous and good, you will go to heaven. Do I think Muslims and Athiests have less to contend with? Yes. But do I think Christians go to hell? No.
 
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Allie

New member
Allright, here's the best way I can try to put it Mockingbird, we're going around in circles and I don't know what you want to hear.

In Christianity you have the law "thou shalt not kill" right? Important law, yes? But you think you go to heaven based on your belief in the divinity of Jesus. That does not nullify the first law, but the belief in Jesus trumps it.

SImilar idea. If you contribute to the world and are righteous and good, you will go to heaven. Do I think Muslims and Athiests have less to contend with? Yes. But do I think Christians go to hell? No.
 
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Lilith

New member
...0.o Just to throw in my 2 cents, I'm glad I'm an athiest, 'cuz just reading all this is confusing me... I think my brain's going to melt... But I agree with the OP, if I was forced to pick a religion, it would be Buddhism. I find it much more believable and rewarding.

As for the anonymous above...yeah...I agree with your view, but not the way you put it. Not leaving a name doesn't help, either. And how much do you really think you're going to accomplish by posting that on the RELIGIOUS forum? Let's think about that for a minute...
 
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Lilith

New member
...0.o Just to throw in my 2 cents, I'm glad I'm an athiest, 'cuz just reading all this is confusing me... I think my brain's going to melt... But I agree with the OP, if I was forced to pick a religion, it would be Buddhism. I find it much more believable and rewarding.

As for the anonymous above...yeah...I agree with your view, but not the way you put it. Not leaving a name doesn't help, either. And how much do you really think you're going to accomplish by posting that on the RELIGIOUS forum? Let's think about that for a minute...
 
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Mockingbird

New member
<blockquote>Quote<br><hr><i>Originally posted by: <b>Allie</b></i><br>Allright, here's the best way I can try to put it Mockingbird, we're going around in circles and I don't know what you want to hear.



In Christianity you have the law "thou shalt not kill" right? Important law, yes? But you think you go to heaven based on your belief in the divinity of Jesus. That does not nullify the first law, but the belief in Jesus trumps it.



SImilar idea. If you contribute to the world and are righteous and good, you will go to heaven. Do I think Muslims and Athiests have less to contend with? Yes. But do I think Christians go to hell? No.<hr></blockquote>

<blockquote>Quote<br><hr><i>Originally posted by: <b>Allie</b></i><br>Allright, here's the best way I can try to put it Mockingbird, we're going around in circles and I don't know what you want to hear.

In Christianity you have the law "thou shalt not kill" right? Important law, yes? But you think you go to heaven based on your belief in the divinity of Jesus. That does not nullify the first law, but the belief in Jesus trumps it.

SImilar idea. If you contribute to the world and are righteous and good, you will go to heaven. Do I think Muslims and Athiests have less to contend with? Yes. But do I think Christians go to hell? No.<hr></blockquote>

But isn't the noahide code part of being righteous and good, though? i.e., to be righteous and good, one must follow the noahide code? And part of the Noahide Code is worship of God, right?

Here is where I am confused. If I violate the second law, and start murdering people left and right, then I'm not being righteous and I'm going to hell. However, if I violate the first law by worshipping a false god then that's okay? Not only am I violating the first law, but the seventh law as well, which includes upholding the first six laws.

If I say I believe in jesus, yet I kill people, I'm still going to hell. It is God's forgiveness that allows me into heaven, not my belief in Jesus. To recieve God's forgivness, not only must I have faith, but I must also show I have faith in what I do, otherwise my faith is dead. On the other side, if I do good without faith, who is to say what I do is righteousness. Corect me if I am wrong, but God is the only judge of what is right and what is not. If I want to be truly righteous, I have to know God, right?

To put it another way, In order to do what is right and good in the world, wouldn't I first have to obey the law which says, "Do not worship false gods/worship the one true God?"
 
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Mockingbird

New member
<blockquote>Quote<br><hr><i>Originally posted by: <b>Allie</b></i><br>Allright, here's the best way I can try to put it Mockingbird, we're going around in circles and I don't know what you want to hear.



In Christianity you have the law "thou shalt not kill" right? Important law, yes? But you think you go to heaven based on your belief in the divinity of Jesus. That does not nullify the first law, but the belief in Jesus trumps it.



SImilar idea. If you contribute to the world and are righteous and good, you will go to heaven. Do I think Muslims and Athiests have less to contend with? Yes. But do I think Christians go to hell? No.<hr></blockquote>

<blockquote>Quote<br><hr><i>Originally posted by: <b>Allie</b></i><br>Allright, here's the best way I can try to put it Mockingbird, we're going around in circles and I don't know what you want to hear.

In Christianity you have the law "thou shalt not kill" right? Important law, yes? But you think you go to heaven based on your belief in the divinity of Jesus. That does not nullify the first law, but the belief in Jesus trumps it.

SImilar idea. If you contribute to the world and are righteous and good, you will go to heaven. Do I think Muslims and Athiests have less to contend with? Yes. But do I think Christians go to hell? No.<hr></blockquote>

But isn't the noahide code part of being righteous and good, though? i.e., to be righteous and good, one must follow the noahide code? And part of the Noahide Code is worship of God, right?

Here is where I am confused. If I violate the second law, and start murdering people left and right, then I'm not being righteous and I'm going to hell. However, if I violate the first law by worshipping a false god then that's okay? Not only am I violating the first law, but the seventh law as well, which includes upholding the first six laws.

If I say I believe in jesus, yet I kill people, I'm still going to hell. It is God's forgiveness that allows me into heaven, not my belief in Jesus. To recieve God's forgivness, not only must I have faith, but I must also show I have faith in what I do, otherwise my faith is dead. On the other side, if I do good without faith, who is to say what I do is righteousness. Corect me if I am wrong, but God is the only judge of what is right and what is not. If I want to be truly righteous, I have to know God, right?

To put it another way, In order to do what is right and good in the world, wouldn't I first have to obey the law which says, "Do not worship false gods/worship the one true God?"
 
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Emily65Roses

New member
<blockquote>Quote<br><hr><i>Originally posted by: <b>Mockingbird</b></i><br>



But isn't the noahide code part of being righteous and good, though? i.e., to be righteous and good, one must follow the noahide code? And part of the Noahide Code is worship of God, right?

Here is where I am confused. If I violate the second law, and start murdering people left and right, then I'm not being righteous and I'm going to hell. However, if I violate the first law by worshipping a false god then that's okay? Not only am I violating the first law, but the seventh law as well, which includes upholding the first six laws.

If I say I believe in jesus, yet I kill people, I'm still going to hell. It is God's forgiveness that allows me into heaven, not my belief in Jesus. To recieve God's forgivness, not only must I have faith, but I must also show I have faith in what I do, otherwise my faith is dead. On the other side, if I do good without faith, who is to say what I do is righteousness. Corect me if I am wrong, but God is the only judge of what is right and what is not. If I want to be truly righteous, I have to know God, right?

To put it another way, In order to do what is right and good in the world, wouldn't I first have to obey the law which says, "Do not worship false gods/worship the one true God?"<hr></blockquote>


My understanding of religion is very limited, but Allie has explained a lot about Jewness to me, so I have a basic idea. My view of what she's saying is... believing in a false god, or no god at all isn't hurting anyone. If you go around killing people, then you're being a morally "bad" person, because you're hurting others, etc. So yeah the best idea in this is that you know and worship god, but that's more easily forgiven than hurting your fellow man, because that is not done with ill will.

I'm sure there's a lot more to it, especially for Allie because she knows this stuff. But that's one way I see it that it all makes sense.
 
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Emily65Roses

New member
<blockquote>Quote<br><hr><i>Originally posted by: <b>Mockingbird</b></i><br>



But isn't the noahide code part of being righteous and good, though? i.e., to be righteous and good, one must follow the noahide code? And part of the Noahide Code is worship of God, right?

Here is where I am confused. If I violate the second law, and start murdering people left and right, then I'm not being righteous and I'm going to hell. However, if I violate the first law by worshipping a false god then that's okay? Not only am I violating the first law, but the seventh law as well, which includes upholding the first six laws.

If I say I believe in jesus, yet I kill people, I'm still going to hell. It is God's forgiveness that allows me into heaven, not my belief in Jesus. To recieve God's forgivness, not only must I have faith, but I must also show I have faith in what I do, otherwise my faith is dead. On the other side, if I do good without faith, who is to say what I do is righteousness. Corect me if I am wrong, but God is the only judge of what is right and what is not. If I want to be truly righteous, I have to know God, right?

To put it another way, In order to do what is right and good in the world, wouldn't I first have to obey the law which says, "Do not worship false gods/worship the one true God?"<hr></blockquote>


My understanding of religion is very limited, but Allie has explained a lot about Jewness to me, so I have a basic idea. My view of what she's saying is... believing in a false god, or no god at all isn't hurting anyone. If you go around killing people, then you're being a morally "bad" person, because you're hurting others, etc. So yeah the best idea in this is that you know and worship god, but that's more easily forgiven than hurting your fellow man, because that is not done with ill will.

I'm sure there's a lot more to it, especially for Allie because she knows this stuff. But that's one way I see it that it all makes sense.
 
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anonymous

New member
Not all Catholics share the 'Purgatory' belief.
Though from my recollection of what 'Purgatory' is, it seemed more in comparison to a prison...maybe with parolle!

(65rosessamurai--had to reply, so too rushed to sign in)
 
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anonymous

New member
Not all Catholics share the 'Purgatory' belief.
Though from my recollection of what 'Purgatory' is, it seemed more in comparison to a prison...maybe with parolle!

(65rosessamurai--had to reply, so too rushed to sign in)
 
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Mockingbird

New member
<blockquote>Quote<br><hr><i>Originally posted by: <b>Emily65Roses</b></i><br>My understanding of religion is very limited, but Allie has explained a lot about Jewness to me, so I have a basic idea. My view of what she's saying is... believing in a false god, or no god at all isn't hurting anyone. If you go around killing people, then you're being a morally "bad" person, because you're hurting others, etc. So yeah the best idea in this is that you know and worship god, but that's more easily forgiven than hurting your fellow man, because that is not done with ill will.
I'm sure there's a lot more to it, especially for Allie because she knows this stuff. But that's one way I see it that it all makes sense.<hr></blockquote>

I'm not interested in what makes sense.

Allie said herself, on this very thread,
<blockquote>Quote<br><hr>I was raised with the idea that God's plan doesn't have to be fair, because it's God's, and he can see the whole tapestry, while we see only individual threads. <hr></blockquote>

I find it ironic that Allie was referring to the teachings of Jesus when she said that, especially now that she seems to be the one who is trying to make God the most fair for everyone.

I will admit I was not asking questions out of curiousity but to make a point. Allie, I realize it wasn't very kind of me to do that to you; I won't do it again.

I do not have a problem with the Noahide Code. My only problem is in dismissing the first law, "Do not worship false gods or idols/Only worship the one true God." I believe the only way to get into heaven is by believing, worshipping, submitting, etc. to God.

Anyway, I've made my point and I'm sure just about everyone here hates me by now so I won't bother posting about it anymore.
 
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