walked away from God

[Mockingbird]

<blockquote>Quote<br><hr><i>Originally posted by: <b>Emily65Roses</b></i><br>My understanding of religion is very limited, but Allie has explained a lot about Jewness to me, so I have a basic idea. My view of what she's saying is... believing in a false god, or no god at all isn't hurting anyone. If you go around killing people, then you're being a morally "bad" person, because you're hurting others, etc. So yeah the best idea in this is that you know and worship god, but that's more easily forgiven than hurting your fellow man, because that is not done with ill will.
I'm sure there's a lot more to it, especially for Allie because she knows this stuff. But that's one way I see it that it all makes sense.<hr></blockquote>

I'm not interested in what makes sense.

Allie said herself, on this very thread,
<blockquote>Quote<br><hr>I was raised with the idea that God's plan doesn't have to be fair, because it's God's, and he can see the whole tapestry, while we see only individual threads. <hr></blockquote>

I find it ironic that Allie was referring to the teachings of Jesus when she said that, especially now that she seems to be the one who is trying to make God the most fair for everyone.

I will admit I was not asking questions out of curiousity but to make a point. Allie, I realize it wasn't very kind of me to do that to you; I won't do it again.

I do not have a problem with the Noahide Code. My only problem is in dismissing the first law, "Do not worship false gods or idols/Only worship the one true God." I believe the only way to get into heaven is by believing, worshipping, submitting, etc. to God.

Anyway, I've made my point and I'm sure just about everyone here hates me by now so I won't bother posting about it anymore.

 

[Allie]

I knew eventually you were just trying to argue for your 'side', if you will, I just wasn't sure what your point was. I'm sorry I didn't know it was that way sooner, I didn't expect it of you and it won't happen again. I hate religious debate; there are no winners, only two losers.

I was referrring to in life in what you quoted from me, I should have been more specific.

I have one question. Are you saying God IS always fair while we're on earth? I think there would be a great many people, both here and historically, who would disagree.

 

[Allie]

I knew eventually you were just trying to argue for your 'side', if you will, I just wasn't sure what your point was. I'm sorry I didn't know it was that way sooner, I didn't expect it of you and it won't happen again. I hate religious debate; there are no winners, only two losers.

I was referrring to in life in what you quoted from me, I should have been more specific.

I have one question. Are you saying God IS always fair while we're on earth? I think there would be a great many people, both here and historically, who would disagree.

 

[Mockingbird]

<blockquote>Quote<br><hr><i>Originally posted by: <b>Allie</b></i><br> Are you saying God IS always fair while we're on earth? <hr></blockquote>

No, and I don't know where you're getting that from.

 

[Mockingbird]

<blockquote>Quote<br><hr><i>Originally posted by: <b>Allie</b></i><br> Are you saying God IS always fair while we're on earth? <hr></blockquote>

No, and I don't know where you're getting that from.

 

[Lilith]

Oh my god...(no pun intended). I've been watching this thread for a while just out of amusement, but I just have to say something now. Mockingbird, what you did wasn't fair. As Allie said, religious debates have no winners because there isn't a right or wrong, despite popular belief. That's the whole point. Some people are completely overzealous and think there is, but there isn't. There are too many people in this world with too many different views, and somehow, I don't think Hell is big enough to send everyone to if one certain belief is the only true belief. Let Allie have her way and you have yours. If everyone did that, the war in the Middle East wouldn't have raged on for 3,000 years...or however the hell long it's been, I lost count... Religion starts more wars than it stops.

And incidentally, if there IS only one way to do things, I intend to tell God when I see him that he needs a change of management.

 

[Lilith]

Oh my god...(no pun intended). I've been watching this thread for a while just out of amusement, but I just have to say something now. Mockingbird, what you did wasn't fair. As Allie said, religious debates have no winners because there isn't a right or wrong, despite popular belief. That's the whole point. Some people are completely overzealous and think there is, but there isn't. There are too many people in this world with too many different views, and somehow, I don't think Hell is big enough to send everyone to if one certain belief is the only true belief. Let Allie have her way and you have yours. If everyone did that, the war in the Middle East wouldn't have raged on for 3,000 years...or however the hell long it's been, I lost count... Religion starts more wars than it stops.

And incidentally, if there IS only one way to do things, I intend to tell God when I see him that he needs a change of management.

 

[JazzysMom]

I will 2nd it with U Lilith!

 

[JazzysMom]

I will 2nd it with U Lilith!

 

[Mockingbird]

<blockquote>Quote<br><hr><i>Originally posted by: <b>Lilith</b></i><br> Mockingbird, what you did wasn't fair. <hr></blockquote>

Yeah, I already said that.

<blockquote>Quote<br><hr>And incidentally, if there IS only one way to do things, I intend to tell God when I see him that he needs a change of management. <hr></blockquote>

And that type of attitude is exactly the reason I started this whole thing. Everywhere I turn people are prostituting God into their own preconceived notions of right and wrong. It's depressing to be surrounded by such a lack of faith.

Besides, what exactly is it I lost? It's not like I'm in high standing around here, anyway. Even if I was, that's not something I see having any great value. The only reason I stick around this place is for the prayer topic, and even that has quickly been losing its hold on me.

Whatever. i said I was gonna stop posting about this, didn't I? Sorry 'bout that. i'm done now.

 

[Mockingbird]

<blockquote>Quote<br><hr><i>Originally posted by: <b>Lilith</b></i><br> Mockingbird, what you did wasn't fair. <hr></blockquote>

Yeah, I already said that.

<blockquote>Quote<br><hr>And incidentally, if there IS only one way to do things, I intend to tell God when I see him that he needs a change of management. <hr></blockquote>

And that type of attitude is exactly the reason I started this whole thing. Everywhere I turn people are prostituting God into their own preconceived notions of right and wrong. It's depressing to be surrounded by such a lack of faith.

Besides, what exactly is it I lost? It's not like I'm in high standing around here, anyway. Even if I was, that's not something I see having any great value. The only reason I stick around this place is for the prayer topic, and even that has quickly been losing its hold on me.

Whatever. i said I was gonna stop posting about this, didn't I? Sorry 'bout that. i'm done now.

 

[Lilith]

<blockquote>Quote<br><hr><i>Originally posted by: <b>Mockingbird</b></i> Everywhere I turn people are prostituting God into their own preconceived notions of right and wrong.

0.o...isn't that exactly what <b>you're</b> doing? Apparently religion doesn't involve any kind of logic whatsoever from what I'm reading here.

 

[Lilith]

<blockquote>Quote<br><hr><i>Originally posted by: <b>Mockingbird</b></i> Everywhere I turn people are prostituting God into their own preconceived notions of right and wrong.

0.o...isn't that exactly what <b>you're</b> doing? Apparently religion doesn't involve any kind of logic whatsoever from what I'm reading here.

 

[Allie]

THIS is why I hate religious debate. I'm asking both sides to cool now, nothing will get accomplished.

Mockingbird, I respect you. I have to admit, I might have tackled it more carefully if I knew you meant to debate, but I thought you were genuinely curious. I didn't mean to start all this and I'm sorry. We don't agree on certain details, but I hope that doesn't mean you think I'm prostituting God.

Lilith, I also respect you, and I see what you are saying. Everybody, whether they admit to it or not, has their own conception of God, usually based in what they were taught.

Now, discussion is fine, but let's not fight.

 

[Allie]

THIS is why I hate religious debate. I'm asking both sides to cool now, nothing will get accomplished.

Mockingbird, I respect you. I have to admit, I might have tackled it more carefully if I knew you meant to debate, but I thought you were genuinely curious. I didn't mean to start all this and I'm sorry. We don't agree on certain details, but I hope that doesn't mean you think I'm prostituting God.

Lilith, I also respect you, and I see what you are saying. Everybody, whether they admit to it or not, has their own conception of God, usually based in what they were taught.

Now, discussion is fine, but let's not fight.

 

[65rosessamurai]

I agree with Allie!
This actually started out as a discussion, but with it turning into a debate, nothing will be accomplished.
My philosophy is: Religion is like Love, no one can tell you not to, or how to, love another person; just like no one can tell you how to change the beliefs that you have.
And, Religion also goes hand in hand with Politics, which is also why they don't mix very well!

So, lets give Allie a break, and leave the "debatable" comments where they lay.

Though, in conclusion, I'd like to add that I believe there's a better word than "prostitution", I don't recall ever getting paid for "Believing in the word of Jesus Christ". In fact, they would pass the hat around for me to give to charity! There's gotta be a better description to fit "Prostituting God"!

 

[65rosessamurai]

I agree with Allie!
This actually started out as a discussion, but with it turning into a debate, nothing will be accomplished.
My philosophy is: Religion is like Love, no one can tell you not to, or how to, love another person; just like no one can tell you how to change the beliefs that you have.
And, Religion also goes hand in hand with Politics, which is also why they don't mix very well!

So, lets give Allie a break, and leave the "debatable" comments where they lay.

Though, in conclusion, I'd like to add that I believe there's a better word than "prostitution", I don't recall ever getting paid for "Believing in the word of Jesus Christ". In fact, they would pass the hat around for me to give to charity! There's gotta be a better description to fit "Prostituting God"!

 

[Lilith]

Allie: Believe me, I wasn't trying to start a debate. I was just simply pointing out a fact that Mockingbird sounded somewhat hypocritical.

Fred: I believe Mockingbird meant prostitution as follows:

<b>prostitute</b> > 2. put to an unworthy or corrupt use for the sake of gain.

Taken directly from my computer's dictionary.

And if that's indeed what he meant, then I have one question...how the hell was I prostituting God by saying that I'd tell Him that His methods need some tweaking if He acts as you suggest? Which I highly doubt, by the way, as I thought Christians were supposed to be accepting of others no matter what they believe. Doesn't sound like your methods to me, Mockingbird...you attacked Allie in a rather cowardly way, by making it sound as if you were genuinely curious, and that doesn't sit well with me. I'm not starting a debate; I'm stating a fact. Just because someone doesn't believe things work exactly like you do doesn't mean that they're prostituting God. If that's the case, then you are just as guilty of the same crime.

I won't say anymore on the subject unless I'm personally attacked. I think I've made my point. Sorry if this sounds like a debate to anyone, I'm honestly not trying to start a war. I just couldn't sit back and watch this anymore.

 

[Lilith]

Allie: Believe me, I wasn't trying to start a debate. I was just simply pointing out a fact that Mockingbird sounded somewhat hypocritical.

Fred: I believe Mockingbird meant prostitution as follows:

<b>prostitute</b> > 2. put to an unworthy or corrupt use for the sake of gain.

Taken directly from my computer's dictionary.

And if that's indeed what he meant, then I have one question...how the hell was I prostituting God by saying that I'd tell Him that His methods need some tweaking if He acts as you suggest? Which I highly doubt, by the way, as I thought Christians were supposed to be accepting of others no matter what they believe. Doesn't sound like your methods to me, Mockingbird...you attacked Allie in a rather cowardly way, by making it sound as if you were genuinely curious, and that doesn't sit well with me. I'm not starting a debate; I'm stating a fact. Just because someone doesn't believe things work exactly like you do doesn't mean that they're prostituting God. If that's the case, then you are just as guilty of the same crime.

I won't say anymore on the subject unless I'm personally attacked. I think I've made my point. Sorry if this sounds like a debate to anyone, I'm honestly not trying to start a war. I just couldn't sit back and watch this anymore.

 

[vmhoward]

I agree with you Lillith, this has been quite a debate to watch unfold. I usually dont get involved in religious debates as well, and I dont plan to in this case. I see where each of you has some genuine points that do raise merit. And I see where pain and life has hardened some of you to the point of not even caring for religion and God at all.

Personally, I dont go about trying to "sell" my faith to others, I rather like to treat everyone fairly and in love. To do unto others as I would have them do to me. If people would stop and think before they act sometimes they would see that it would be much easier if we all just thought about what we were doing before we did it. But I dont condemn others for what they do I just "suck it up and drive on". You cant go through life resenting everyone else or even God for things that "could have been" It just makes you and everyone around you miserable in the long run. Granted I am not perfect by any means and I have times when I feel that "poor me" attitude, but eventually I get out of the slump and remember that I am loved and that I have a purpose and I cant do what I am called to do if I am constantly arguing and bickering with everyone else, including God.

So it has been interesting to see this discussion. Who knows maybe it did help someone in someway to understand something. But Either way weather you are a Christian or a Jew or a Buddist or a Muslim. God made us all and we should love each other anyway. Its hard and we cant always like everyone but we can love the person God made with out liking the person they became. Does that make sence? Anyway.

Talk to you all soon!

Victoria