if you knew your unborn child had cf would you abort it

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jfarel

New member
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>miesl</b></i>

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>jfarel</b></i>



If you don't want to have children, don't have illicit sex. Abortion is not the answer.</end quote></div>



Guess what? I like sex. Shocking, I know. I greatly enjoy the participation in something that my body gets pleasure from. Again, my it's my body. Last time I checked, sex was in fact legal. Heck, it's even legal to enjoy it. So, exactly why should I not have it? Because I'm a woman? (Even better, what about rape?)



I agree that abortion shouldn't be the answer, but not for your reasons. The answer is birth control. There are many awesome ways to prevent pregnancy. However, they can and do fail. Abortion should be safe, legal, and rare. It's a medical procedure, and it's not cheap. Both reasons to try and cut down on it. BC should be taught, and more easily available - THAT is what will help cut down on abortions.</end quote></div>


The problem is abortion is too common, because there are in fact too many people running around having sex with no interest in a committed relationship, much less marriage. I'm saying, don't have sex, if you can't deal with the consequences. If you want to have free sex, "get yourself neutered."
 
J

jfarel

New member
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>miesl</b></i>

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>jfarel</b></i>



If you don't want to have children, don't have illicit sex. Abortion is not the answer.</end quote></div>



Guess what? I like sex. Shocking, I know. I greatly enjoy the participation in something that my body gets pleasure from. Again, my it's my body. Last time I checked, sex was in fact legal. Heck, it's even legal to enjoy it. So, exactly why should I not have it? Because I'm a woman? (Even better, what about rape?)



I agree that abortion shouldn't be the answer, but not for your reasons. The answer is birth control. There are many awesome ways to prevent pregnancy. However, they can and do fail. Abortion should be safe, legal, and rare. It's a medical procedure, and it's not cheap. Both reasons to try and cut down on it. BC should be taught, and more easily available - THAT is what will help cut down on abortions.</end quote></div>


The problem is abortion is too common, because there are in fact too many people running around having sex with no interest in a committed relationship, much less marriage. I'm saying, don't have sex, if you can't deal with the consequences. If you want to have free sex, "get yourself neutered."
 
J

jfarel

New member
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>miesl</b></i>

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>jfarel</b></i>



If you don't want to have children, don't have illicit sex. Abortion is not the answer.</end quote></div>



Guess what? I like sex. Shocking, I know. I greatly enjoy the participation in something that my body gets pleasure from. Again, my it's my body. Last time I checked, sex was in fact legal. Heck, it's even legal to enjoy it. So, exactly why should I not have it? Because I'm a woman? (Even better, what about rape?)



I agree that abortion shouldn't be the answer, but not for your reasons. The answer is birth control. There are many awesome ways to prevent pregnancy. However, they can and do fail. Abortion should be safe, legal, and rare. It's a medical procedure, and it's not cheap. Both reasons to try and cut down on it. BC should be taught, and more easily available - THAT is what will help cut down on abortions.</end quote></div>


The problem is abortion is too common, because there are in fact too many people running around having sex with no interest in a committed relationship, much less marriage. I'm saying, don't have sex, if you can't deal with the consequences. If you want to have free sex, "get yourself neutered."
 
E

Emily65Roses

New member
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>jfarel</b></i>

I can't help the fact that I feel strongly about life. If someone's going to start a thread about this, this is the direction its going to take. I personally don't think this is the right website for this kind of discussion, but I'm not going to allow only one side to heard.

We're talking about a serious issue that raises a lot of passion. I'm sorry there is so much apathy on this board.</end quote></div>

1. We're not children. No civilized debate is "inappropriate." We are grown ups, we can handle it.

2. Lack of belief in any god does not make for apathy. Don't link them together without good reason. Some people do have both, but one is not causation for the other. There are plenty of people who aren't religious and are very caring people.
 
E

Emily65Roses

New member
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>jfarel</b></i>

I can't help the fact that I feel strongly about life. If someone's going to start a thread about this, this is the direction its going to take. I personally don't think this is the right website for this kind of discussion, but I'm not going to allow only one side to heard.

We're talking about a serious issue that raises a lot of passion. I'm sorry there is so much apathy on this board.</end quote></div>

1. We're not children. No civilized debate is "inappropriate." We are grown ups, we can handle it.

2. Lack of belief in any god does not make for apathy. Don't link them together without good reason. Some people do have both, but one is not causation for the other. There are plenty of people who aren't religious and are very caring people.
 
E

Emily65Roses

New member
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>jfarel</b></i>

I can't help the fact that I feel strongly about life. If someone's going to start a thread about this, this is the direction its going to take. I personally don't think this is the right website for this kind of discussion, but I'm not going to allow only one side to heard.

We're talking about a serious issue that raises a lot of passion. I'm sorry there is so much apathy on this board.</end quote></div>

1. We're not children. No civilized debate is "inappropriate." We are grown ups, we can handle it.

2. Lack of belief in any god does not make for apathy. Don't link them together without good reason. Some people do have both, but one is not causation for the other. There are plenty of people who aren't religious and are very caring people.
 
J

jfarel

New member
The atheists and agnostics are not the apathetic ones. I corrected myself and said the pro life side was being more apathetic. Your certainly not apathetic and neither is meisl(sp).

I enjoy debating, and harbor no hard feelings toward anyone. Ideas make me angry not people.
 
J

jfarel

New member
The atheists and agnostics are not the apathetic ones. I corrected myself and said the pro life side was being more apathetic. Your certainly not apathetic and neither is meisl(sp).

I enjoy debating, and harbor no hard feelings toward anyone. Ideas make me angry not people.
 
J

jfarel

New member
The atheists and agnostics are not the apathetic ones. I corrected myself and said the pro life side was being more apathetic. Your certainly not apathetic and neither is meisl(sp).

I enjoy debating, and harbor no hard feelings toward anyone. Ideas make me angry not people.
 
M

miesl

New member
<i>there are in fact too many people running around having sex with no interest in a committed relationship, much less marriage. </i>

So what? They're enjoying those nifty "personal freedoms" we enjoy.

<i>I'm saying, don't have sex, if you can't deal with the consequences. If you want to have free sex, "get yourself neutered." </i>

Do you have any idea how difficult it is for a childless/childfree, unmarried woman to get voluntarily sterilized when she wants to? There are very, very few doctors who will do it, and there are a lot of hoops to jump through. Also, it's expensive - economically, abortion is cheaper. Also, it's permanent. Women in all life stages have abortions - even married women. Women who have abortions sometimes have planned children later in life.

This isn't ABOUT consequences. We are not a vindictive society. If we were the medical system in this country would be much different. Smoker with lung cancer? We won't treat you - deal with the consequences. Motorcycle crash without a helmet? Oh well, deal with the consequences, we have other trauma patients.

It doesn't matter to the system that they caused the problem - they get the same treatment as everyone else. Abortion should be no different. Like it or not, unwanted pregnancies are a treatable medical condition.
 
M

miesl

New member
<i>there are in fact too many people running around having sex with no interest in a committed relationship, much less marriage. </i>

So what? They're enjoying those nifty "personal freedoms" we enjoy.

<i>I'm saying, don't have sex, if you can't deal with the consequences. If you want to have free sex, "get yourself neutered." </i>

Do you have any idea how difficult it is for a childless/childfree, unmarried woman to get voluntarily sterilized when she wants to? There are very, very few doctors who will do it, and there are a lot of hoops to jump through. Also, it's expensive - economically, abortion is cheaper. Also, it's permanent. Women in all life stages have abortions - even married women. Women who have abortions sometimes have planned children later in life.

This isn't ABOUT consequences. We are not a vindictive society. If we were the medical system in this country would be much different. Smoker with lung cancer? We won't treat you - deal with the consequences. Motorcycle crash without a helmet? Oh well, deal with the consequences, we have other trauma patients.

It doesn't matter to the system that they caused the problem - they get the same treatment as everyone else. Abortion should be no different. Like it or not, unwanted pregnancies are a treatable medical condition.
 
M

miesl

New member
<i>there are in fact too many people running around having sex with no interest in a committed relationship, much less marriage. </i>

So what? They're enjoying those nifty "personal freedoms" we enjoy.

<i>I'm saying, don't have sex, if you can't deal with the consequences. If you want to have free sex, "get yourself neutered." </i>

Do you have any idea how difficult it is for a childless/childfree, unmarried woman to get voluntarily sterilized when she wants to? There are very, very few doctors who will do it, and there are a lot of hoops to jump through. Also, it's expensive - economically, abortion is cheaper. Also, it's permanent. Women in all life stages have abortions - even married women. Women who have abortions sometimes have planned children later in life.

This isn't ABOUT consequences. We are not a vindictive society. If we were the medical system in this country would be much different. Smoker with lung cancer? We won't treat you - deal with the consequences. Motorcycle crash without a helmet? Oh well, deal with the consequences, we have other trauma patients.

It doesn't matter to the system that they caused the problem - they get the same treatment as everyone else. Abortion should be no different. Like it or not, unwanted pregnancies are a treatable medical condition.
 
J

jfarel

New member
You may have freedom to enjoy unprotected free sex, but not without the consequences--the rates of STD's are skyrocketing.

Very few women in stable marriages are having abortions--probably less than 10 percent of all abortions, if would would wager a guess.


You're right we're not a vindicative society but their are still consequences, like smoking gives you cancer. Unprotected sex gives you babies and other suprises.

You still have to deal with consequences. You think abortion is the solution but its not. As a society we're going to pay for it in the long run. Many women have horrific emotional scars from these procedures. Free sex, brought us the AIDS epidemic and has given rise to multitudes of other STD's. Sure we can treat them now, but the answer isn't to find more medical solutions to all of society's ills. I'm glad we can treat these problems medically, but what is really needed is a change of thinking. Society isn't getting better, its getting worse. Children are being raised in unstable homes, and thats where the problems begin. Public schools are a war zone, child predators and sex crimes, mass murders etc etc etc. All of this begins with the narcissistic notion, that "I can do what's best for me and what makes me feel good. There is no truth; I determine what is truth."

I began with the idea that human nature is depraved and will get continually worse unless those urges to pursue evil are curved. Today society has no interest in curving those urges. Instead they say to embrace them and enjoy them.
 
J

jfarel

New member
You may have freedom to enjoy unprotected free sex, but not without the consequences--the rates of STD's are skyrocketing.

Very few women in stable marriages are having abortions--probably less than 10 percent of all abortions, if would would wager a guess.


You're right we're not a vindicative society but their are still consequences, like smoking gives you cancer. Unprotected sex gives you babies and other suprises.

You still have to deal with consequences. You think abortion is the solution but its not. As a society we're going to pay for it in the long run. Many women have horrific emotional scars from these procedures. Free sex, brought us the AIDS epidemic and has given rise to multitudes of other STD's. Sure we can treat them now, but the answer isn't to find more medical solutions to all of society's ills. I'm glad we can treat these problems medically, but what is really needed is a change of thinking. Society isn't getting better, its getting worse. Children are being raised in unstable homes, and thats where the problems begin. Public schools are a war zone, child predators and sex crimes, mass murders etc etc etc. All of this begins with the narcissistic notion, that "I can do what's best for me and what makes me feel good. There is no truth; I determine what is truth."

I began with the idea that human nature is depraved and will get continually worse unless those urges to pursue evil are curved. Today society has no interest in curving those urges. Instead they say to embrace them and enjoy them.
 
J

jfarel

New member
You may have freedom to enjoy unprotected free sex, but not without the consequences--the rates of STD's are skyrocketing.

Very few women in stable marriages are having abortions--probably less than 10 percent of all abortions, if would would wager a guess.


You're right we're not a vindicative society but their are still consequences, like smoking gives you cancer. Unprotected sex gives you babies and other suprises.

You still have to deal with consequences. You think abortion is the solution but its not. As a society we're going to pay for it in the long run. Many women have horrific emotional scars from these procedures. Free sex, brought us the AIDS epidemic and has given rise to multitudes of other STD's. Sure we can treat them now, but the answer isn't to find more medical solutions to all of society's ills. I'm glad we can treat these problems medically, but what is really needed is a change of thinking. Society isn't getting better, its getting worse. Children are being raised in unstable homes, and thats where the problems begin. Public schools are a war zone, child predators and sex crimes, mass murders etc etc etc. All of this begins with the narcissistic notion, that "I can do what's best for me and what makes me feel good. There is no truth; I determine what is truth."

I began with the idea that human nature is depraved and will get continually worse unless those urges to pursue evil are curved. Today society has no interest in curving those urges. Instead they say to embrace them and enjoy them.
 
L

Lilith

New member
jfarel, I am completely agnostic. However, I will agree with you on one point. People who run around having sex with anything that moves is, in my opinion, distasteful at best. My thoughts; if you aren't serious about the person you're with, keep your "hands to yourself" (for lack of a less vular way to put it). I would never be so careless with my body.

That said, I would much rather the woman who tosses herself around like that to have an abortion, rather than raise a child with the same brand of "values". Because that child will end up being just like the mother, if not worse. Stupidity breeds stupidity. So I prefer to look at it as saving that child from having to deal with a broken home and parents who could care less. You can say its twisted if you want, but that's my opinion on the matter.
 
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Lilith

New member
jfarel, I am completely agnostic. However, I will agree with you on one point. People who run around having sex with anything that moves is, in my opinion, distasteful at best. My thoughts; if you aren't serious about the person you're with, keep your "hands to yourself" (for lack of a less vular way to put it). I would never be so careless with my body.

That said, I would much rather the woman who tosses herself around like that to have an abortion, rather than raise a child with the same brand of "values". Because that child will end up being just like the mother, if not worse. Stupidity breeds stupidity. So I prefer to look at it as saving that child from having to deal with a broken home and parents who could care less. You can say its twisted if you want, but that's my opinion on the matter.
 
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