OT but need to vent and some advice

[fr3ak]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote> I can see why she might be scared. But if that had happened to you, wouldn't you make sure your dog was always on a leash? Seems to me she didn't learn HER lesson the first time </end quote></div>

you said in your first post the leash was attached she just didnt have hold of it, so the lead was on her dog....

again the dog was still in it's yard when your dogs took chase.....

and you still had to drag your dogs out from her yard....

Just remember at the end of the day your dogs are going to be the ones to suffer....

Yes big dogs do come with labels but it's because the ones who own the large breeds generally dont take into consideration size, strength and are sometimes irresponsible... It's never the dogs fault, its the person who owns the dog that is at fault and when it comes to big dogs then one needs to always be a step ahead.....

There are no bad dogs, just poorly trained dogs, and who trains the dogs? People!

It would be like taking a sight hound (greyhound) to an off leash area and then say my dog is gentle at home and wouldnt hurt a flea, but it just ripped fluffy into a hundred pieces because sight hounds are bred to chase and kill... again owner responsibility... there was a incident that involved 3 racing greyhounds at an offleash beach who ripped up a small fluffy dog, who was at fault, the beach was an offleash area, so fluffy had just as much right as the greyhounds, but the greyhounds were racing dogs who should have been muzzled and under sufficient control....and they obviously weren't...no compensation for the owners of the little fluffy dog who watched 3 dogs tear their dog up in front of them....

 

[2perfectboys]

It may be just better to pay the ticket. One thing to keep in mind, if u go to court and are convicted u will have to pay the ticket PLUS court costs, which can be, $50-100. U will not win if u plead Not Guilty, because u techincally are. U could plead "No contest", where u admit to the facts, that your dogs were running at large", but then u are given a chance to explain, where u can say they were on leashes and u had just given birth and they got lose. and the judge may take that into consideration and give remit fines, which means no fines.

Just on a side note, In my career I have seen my fair share of kids that were muled by their dogs who were "Gentle and harmless" No one can know for sure what a dog will do all the time.

 

[2perfectboys]

It may be just better to pay the ticket. One thing to keep in mind, if u go to court and are convicted u will have to pay the ticket PLUS court costs, which can be, $50-100. U will not win if u plead Not Guilty, because u techincally are. U could plead "No contest", where u admit to the facts, that your dogs were running at large", but then u are given a chance to explain, where u can say they were on leashes and u had just given birth and they got lose. and the judge may take that into consideration and give remit fines, which means no fines.

Just on a side note, In my career I have seen my fair share of kids that were muled by their dogs who were "Gentle and harmless" No one can know for sure what a dog will do all the time.

 

[2perfectboys]

It may be just better to pay the ticket. One thing to keep in mind, if u go to court and are convicted u will have to pay the ticket PLUS court costs, which can be, $50-100. U will not win if u plead Not Guilty, because u techincally are. U could plead "No contest", where u admit to the facts, that your dogs were running at large", but then u are given a chance to explain, where u can say they were on leashes and u had just given birth and they got lose. and the judge may take that into consideration and give remit fines, which means no fines.

Just on a side note, In my career I have seen my fair share of kids that were muled by their dogs who were "Gentle and harmless" No one can know for sure what a dog will do all the time.

 

[kybert]

freak [what is your real name?], not learnt to fight as in didnt like it and tried to get it off. learnt to fight meaning she could overcome the discomfort it would produce when pulling. she learnt that if she didnt let her head follow the lead and kept her head and neck straight, she could pull just as hard as before. this creates all kinds of stress on the neck and face. the pressure was not caused by an ill fitting halti, it was caused by her pulling to the point where she would effectively tie her mouth shut. it took over a year for her to learn this but now shes figured it out, she can overcome any kind of halter. i have tried the original halti, gentle leader and the sporn harness too [thinking that she hasnt got that one figured out. she worked it out within 10 minutes]. all have been fitted by trainers, all have failed.

whilst we might not agree on the prong debate lol, id like to ditto everything you have said about julies predicament. its refreshing to see someone who knows a lot about dog etiquette. most dog owners i come across have no idea.

julie...

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>I just have to wonder, if this had started at a park or something, who would be found at fault. Is it simply because my dogs stepped on her property</end quote></div>

if it were to happen at a park you would both be at fault. and yes, it is because it happened on her property. what if her dog WAS leashed and in control? 20 bucks says that if the other dog was restrained your dogs would still have done what they did and you still would have let go of the leash. if that happened youd be in even bigger trouble.

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>the dogs were just having fun</end quote></div>

gotta agree with freak here. ive heard that line so many times. what might be having fun to you might be terrifying for someone else and their dog. i dont think having 2 large dogs chasing a frightened small dog is classified as having fun. its a recipe for disaster, for both parties. besides, last time my dog got attacked the owner gave me the "oh my dog was just trying to play" line. yeaaah, right. it aint play if someone doesnt like it.

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>And yes, I do think that I'm partially being victimized because I own large breeds, and large breeds who have a bad rep.</end quote></div>

maybe you are, maybe you arent. but if you are then it doesnt make you any less at fault though. its still up to you to do everything in your power to stop things like this happening. big dog owners have to take extra special care. this is what i meant by "i would rather be dragged and injured than let go of the leash". anything is better than the consequences of having a 'roaming' dog. thats just the way it is. luckily, 99% of the time i wouldnt have to be put in a situation where i would be dragged and injured because i have enough control over my dog. if i didnt feel that i had enough control, id get someone else to walk her.

seriously, just pay the fine and be done with it. it doesnt matter what the other lady did. maybe she <b>is</b> pissed because you said what you did, but all that matters is that you are mostly to blame so you need to accept it.

 

[kybert]

freak [what is your real name?], not learnt to fight as in didnt like it and tried to get it off. learnt to fight meaning she could overcome the discomfort it would produce when pulling. she learnt that if she didnt let her head follow the lead and kept her head and neck straight, she could pull just as hard as before. this creates all kinds of stress on the neck and face. the pressure was not caused by an ill fitting halti, it was caused by her pulling to the point where she would effectively tie her mouth shut. it took over a year for her to learn this but now shes figured it out, she can overcome any kind of halter. i have tried the original halti, gentle leader and the sporn harness too [thinking that she hasnt got that one figured out. she worked it out within 10 minutes]. all have been fitted by trainers, all have failed.

whilst we might not agree on the prong debate lol, id like to ditto everything you have said about julies predicament. its refreshing to see someone who knows a lot about dog etiquette. most dog owners i come across have no idea.

julie...

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>I just have to wonder, if this had started at a park or something, who would be found at fault. Is it simply because my dogs stepped on her property</end quote></div>

if it were to happen at a park you would both be at fault. and yes, it is because it happened on her property. what if her dog WAS leashed and in control? 20 bucks says that if the other dog was restrained your dogs would still have done what they did and you still would have let go of the leash. if that happened youd be in even bigger trouble.

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>the dogs were just having fun</end quote></div>

gotta agree with freak here. ive heard that line so many times. what might be having fun to you might be terrifying for someone else and their dog. i dont think having 2 large dogs chasing a frightened small dog is classified as having fun. its a recipe for disaster, for both parties. besides, last time my dog got attacked the owner gave me the "oh my dog was just trying to play" line. yeaaah, right. it aint play if someone doesnt like it.

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>And yes, I do think that I'm partially being victimized because I own large breeds, and large breeds who have a bad rep.</end quote></div>

maybe you are, maybe you arent. but if you are then it doesnt make you any less at fault though. its still up to you to do everything in your power to stop things like this happening. big dog owners have to take extra special care. this is what i meant by "i would rather be dragged and injured than let go of the leash". anything is better than the consequences of having a 'roaming' dog. thats just the way it is. luckily, 99% of the time i wouldnt have to be put in a situation where i would be dragged and injured because i have enough control over my dog. if i didnt feel that i had enough control, id get someone else to walk her.

seriously, just pay the fine and be done with it. it doesnt matter what the other lady did. maybe she <b>is</b> pissed because you said what you did, but all that matters is that you are mostly to blame so you need to accept it.

 

[kybert]

freak [what is your real name?], not learnt to fight as in didnt like it and tried to get it off. learnt to fight meaning she could overcome the discomfort it would produce when pulling. she learnt that if she didnt let her head follow the lead and kept her head and neck straight, she could pull just as hard as before. this creates all kinds of stress on the neck and face. the pressure was not caused by an ill fitting halti, it was caused by her pulling to the point where she would effectively tie her mouth shut. it took over a year for her to learn this but now shes figured it out, she can overcome any kind of halter. i have tried the original halti, gentle leader and the sporn harness too [thinking that she hasnt got that one figured out. she worked it out within 10 minutes]. all have been fitted by trainers, all have failed.

whilst we might not agree on the prong debate lol, id like to ditto everything you have said about julies predicament. its refreshing to see someone who knows a lot about dog etiquette. most dog owners i come across have no idea.

julie...

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>I just have to wonder, if this had started at a park or something, who would be found at fault. Is it simply because my dogs stepped on her property</end quote></div>

if it were to happen at a park you would both be at fault. and yes, it is because it happened on her property. what if her dog WAS leashed and in control? 20 bucks says that if the other dog was restrained your dogs would still have done what they did and you still would have let go of the leash. if that happened youd be in even bigger trouble.

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>the dogs were just having fun</end quote></div>

gotta agree with freak here. ive heard that line so many times. what might be having fun to you might be terrifying for someone else and their dog. i dont think having 2 large dogs chasing a frightened small dog is classified as having fun. its a recipe for disaster, for both parties. besides, last time my dog got attacked the owner gave me the "oh my dog was just trying to play" line. yeaaah, right. it aint play if someone doesnt like it.

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>And yes, I do think that I'm partially being victimized because I own large breeds, and large breeds who have a bad rep.</end quote></div>

maybe you are, maybe you arent. but if you are then it doesnt make you any less at fault though. its still up to you to do everything in your power to stop things like this happening. big dog owners have to take extra special care. this is what i meant by "i would rather be dragged and injured than let go of the leash". anything is better than the consequences of having a 'roaming' dog. thats just the way it is. luckily, 99% of the time i wouldnt have to be put in a situation where i would be dragged and injured because i have enough control over my dog. if i didnt feel that i had enough control, id get someone else to walk her.

seriously, just pay the fine and be done with it. it doesnt matter what the other lady did. maybe she <b>is</b> pissed because you said what you did, but all that matters is that you are mostly to blame so you need to accept it.

 

[julie]

2perfectboys, this isn't a criminal matter, so there are no court costs involved regardless if the ticket stays or is dropped. It's not like small claims court, it's like going to fight a traffic ticket. If I loose and decide to take it to superior court, only then would I have to play.

Ky, my dogs walk by other dogs on leashes all the time, whether it be another person walking their dog or a dog LEASHED in their yard. I think it was just the fact that this dog was "free" and running around that they took off. THey have NEVER done this before and we've had them for 6 and 5 years and walk them all the time. I'd have to honestly say if she had her dogs leash on her hand, and the dog wasn't freely running aroudn that the outcome of this woudl have been very different.

I do take responsibility for what happened and I have learned my lesson, however I don't think the situation constituted a ticket, that's all.

 

[julie]

2perfectboys, this isn't a criminal matter, so there are no court costs involved regardless if the ticket stays or is dropped. It's not like small claims court, it's like going to fight a traffic ticket. If I loose and decide to take it to superior court, only then would I have to play.

Ky, my dogs walk by other dogs on leashes all the time, whether it be another person walking their dog or a dog LEASHED in their yard. I think it was just the fact that this dog was "free" and running around that they took off. THey have NEVER done this before and we've had them for 6 and 5 years and walk them all the time. I'd have to honestly say if she had her dogs leash on her hand, and the dog wasn't freely running aroudn that the outcome of this woudl have been very different.

I do take responsibility for what happened and I have learned my lesson, however I don't think the situation constituted a ticket, that's all.

 

[julie]

2perfectboys, this isn't a criminal matter, so there are no court costs involved regardless if the ticket stays or is dropped. It's not like small claims court, it's like going to fight a traffic ticket. If I loose and decide to take it to superior court, only then would I have to play.

Ky, my dogs walk by other dogs on leashes all the time, whether it be another person walking their dog or a dog LEASHED in their yard. I think it was just the fact that this dog was "free" and running around that they took off. THey have NEVER done this before and we've had them for 6 and 5 years and walk them all the time. I'd have to honestly say if she had her dogs leash on her hand, and the dog wasn't freely running aroudn that the outcome of this woudl have been very different.

I do take responsibility for what happened and I have learned my lesson, however I don't think the situation constituted a ticket, that's all.

 

[fr3ak]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>freak [what is your real name?] </end quote></div>

Tracy

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>it was caused by her pulling to the point where she would effectively tie her mouth shut </end quote></div>

I can't comment on this because I haven't seen the dog, but correctly fitted there is no way that a Gentle leader can tie the mouth shut.... it has a clasp at the bottom that prevents this, if you can get hold of a gentle leader DVD that comes with the Gentle leaders these days, I really recommend having a watch......

If you want to use a prong collar that is your choice....I can't give accurate comment without seeing the dog....


<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>its refreshing to see someone who knows a lot about dog etiquette. most dog owners i come across have no idea </end quote></div>

I am a qualified CGC dog instructor <img src="">

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote> THey have NEVER done this before and we've had them for 6 and 5 years and walk them all the time</end quote></div>

Famous last words..... Man have I heard this cry so many times.....A dog is a dog, it is born with teeth and hardwiring, doesn't matter if its a Chihuahua or a Great dane, they are all DOGS. It's like so many cases I hear time and time again with the family dog that bites a child unprovoked and yet it's never done that before.... Stop making excuses. If your dogs had of hurt the dog or the woman or the child then you would not be telling us about how victimized you are, you would be telling us how your dogs were put to sleep..... It only takes the famous ONE time for your dog to bite and your dog won't be given a second chance......

 

[fr3ak]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>freak [what is your real name?] </end quote></div>

Tracy

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>it was caused by her pulling to the point where she would effectively tie her mouth shut </end quote></div>

I can't comment on this because I haven't seen the dog, but correctly fitted there is no way that a Gentle leader can tie the mouth shut.... it has a clasp at the bottom that prevents this, if you can get hold of a gentle leader DVD that comes with the Gentle leaders these days, I really recommend having a watch......

If you want to use a prong collar that is your choice....I can't give accurate comment without seeing the dog....


<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>its refreshing to see someone who knows a lot about dog etiquette. most dog owners i come across have no idea </end quote></div>

I am a qualified CGC dog instructor <img src="">

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote> THey have NEVER done this before and we've had them for 6 and 5 years and walk them all the time</end quote></div>

Famous last words..... Man have I heard this cry so many times.....A dog is a dog, it is born with teeth and hardwiring, doesn't matter if its a Chihuahua or a Great dane, they are all DOGS. It's like so many cases I hear time and time again with the family dog that bites a child unprovoked and yet it's never done that before.... Stop making excuses. If your dogs had of hurt the dog or the woman or the child then you would not be telling us about how victimized you are, you would be telling us how your dogs were put to sleep..... It only takes the famous ONE time for your dog to bite and your dog won't be given a second chance......

 

[fr3ak]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>freak [what is your real name?] </end quote></div>

Tracy

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>it was caused by her pulling to the point where she would effectively tie her mouth shut </end quote></div>

I can't comment on this because I haven't seen the dog, but correctly fitted there is no way that a Gentle leader can tie the mouth shut.... it has a clasp at the bottom that prevents this, if you can get hold of a gentle leader DVD that comes with the Gentle leaders these days, I really recommend having a watch......

If you want to use a prong collar that is your choice....I can't give accurate comment without seeing the dog....


<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>its refreshing to see someone who knows a lot about dog etiquette. most dog owners i come across have no idea </end quote></div>

I am a qualified CGC dog instructor <img src="">

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote> THey have NEVER done this before and we've had them for 6 and 5 years and walk them all the time</end quote></div>

Famous last words..... Man have I heard this cry so many times.....A dog is a dog, it is born with teeth and hardwiring, doesn't matter if its a Chihuahua or a Great dane, they are all DOGS. It's like so many cases I hear time and time again with the family dog that bites a child unprovoked and yet it's never done that before.... Stop making excuses. If your dogs had of hurt the dog or the woman or the child then you would not be telling us about how victimized you are, you would be telling us how your dogs were put to sleep..... It only takes the famous ONE time for your dog to bite and your dog won't be given a second chance......

 

[julie]

I hear you, but they didn't bite anyone or any other animal, never have and I can say surely they never will.

So, since that's not what this topic is discussing, can we stop hashing that particular issue, because it's not the one at hand. Thank you

 

[julie]

I hear you, but they didn't bite anyone or any other animal, never have and I can say surely they never will.

So, since that's not what this topic is discussing, can we stop hashing that particular issue, because it's not the one at hand. Thank you

 

[julie]

I hear you, but they didn't bite anyone or any other animal, never have and I can say surely they never will.

So, since that's not what this topic is discussing, can we stop hashing that particular issue, because it's not the one at hand. Thank you

 

[fr3ak]

Julie,

You're missing the point, because I think you're making a mountain out of an ant hill.

And no offence but if you sit there and say confidently that your dogs have never bitten and never will then sorry but you are just being ignorant.

You wanted advise, you got both spectrums but you only want people to feel sorry for you and feel that you were victimized....

As I dog owner, a dog trainer I suggest you get some education on dogs!!

 

[fr3ak]

Julie,

You're missing the point, because I think you're making a mountain out of an ant hill.

And no offence but if you sit there and say confidently that your dogs have never bitten and never will then sorry but you are just being ignorant.

You wanted advise, you got both spectrums but you only want people to feel sorry for you and feel that you were victimized....

As I dog owner, a dog trainer I suggest you get some education on dogs!!

 

[fr3ak]

Julie,

You're missing the point, because I think you're making a mountain out of an ant hill.

And no offence but if you sit there and say confidently that your dogs have never bitten and never will then sorry but you are just being ignorant.

You wanted advise, you got both spectrums but you only want people to feel sorry for you and feel that you were victimized....

As I dog owner, a dog trainer I suggest you get some education on dogs!!

 

[fr3ak]

<img src="http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e222/fr3ak_on_a_leash/Georgebite.jpg">

Of course George paid the price for something that could have been prevented, and So did that child!

My statement stands, dogs are hardwired to be dogs, and have the potential to bite, they have teeth and only ignorant people will profess that their dog will never bite!

May sound harsh to some, but it is true

George was a 5 and a half year old lab who had never bitten before....Question posed is who was at fault?

George The dog, not likely
The toddler, most probably by doing something that resulted in the bite
The owners, definitely dogs and kids should never be left unsupervised, as tragic as it is, this case as with many others could have been prevented....by supervision and not not having the attitude that my dog would never bite!!!

I know of two seperate cases, one was of a 6 year old Golden retriever who bit the family's 18 month old child, the child received 30 stitches to the face and the dog received a nice one way ticket to the ground, after the vet had put the dog to sleep they found a pencil had been rammed into the dogs ear penetrating the eardrum.....

another case was of a family rottie about 4 year old, again an unproved attack on a 2 year old, kid received stitches the dog received death penalty, once the dog was dead the vet pulled out 28 staples from the dogs ear....It had withstood 27 staples to the ear but the 28th was the breaking point....