Question for Spouses

anonymous

New member
A snippet from Harriet McBryde Johnson's book

<a target=new class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.newmobility.com/review_article.cfm?id=198&action=browse
">http://www.newmobility.com/review_article.cfm?id=198&action=browse
</a>
Most important thing I think is for both spouses to be able to "be real" abot the impace of the illness- to themselves and to each other.
 

anonymous

New member
A snippet from Harriet McBryde Johnson's book

<a target=new class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.newmobility.com/review_article.cfm?id=198&action=browse
">http://www.newmobility.com/review_article.cfm?id=198&action=browse
</a>
Most important thing I think is for both spouses to be able to "be real" abot the impace of the illness- to themselves and to each other.
 

Emily65Roses

New member
Oh and to Lisa ---

I try not to live every day like "I'm going to die, and I'm going to die much younger than you." In fact, when I just bought a living will called Five Wishes, at Allie's suggestion, I also bought one for my Mike. Because he's healthy, but as we all know, sh*t happens. In the end, though, the numbers are not in our favor. Yes, the expectancy is going up all the time, but that's due in large part to the kids and babies being born with CF now. People born in "my time" are still, in general, dying younger.

Also I wanted to thank you for a piece of advice you gave me before. Something about how even if Mike takes care of me (which he does even now), to not let that blur the fact that we are still first and foremost, spouses. We are not "ill spouse" and "well spouse," we are simply spouses. To stay equal in the relationship and to continue to love and care for one another. I shared Mike that piece of wisdom you extended to me and he wholeheartedly agreed. That while the possibility for a "ill spouse / well spouse" dynamic is there (simply because I am ill and he is not), that he'd never let it get there. Because we are, as you said, first and foremost, spouses. Not patient and caregiver. So I wanted to thank you for that. Oh and Allie copied the offer for Mike to come to the well spouses forum and contact you if he feels the need. I also wish to thank you for that. I very much doubt he will, because he doesn't even come to the CF forum, but I did extend the offer to him (relating that you were the one with the intelligent advice), and he thanks you as well. <3
 

Emily65Roses

New member
Oh and to Lisa ---

I try not to live every day like "I'm going to die, and I'm going to die much younger than you." In fact, when I just bought a living will called Five Wishes, at Allie's suggestion, I also bought one for my Mike. Because he's healthy, but as we all know, sh*t happens. In the end, though, the numbers are not in our favor. Yes, the expectancy is going up all the time, but that's due in large part to the kids and babies being born with CF now. People born in "my time" are still, in general, dying younger.

Also I wanted to thank you for a piece of advice you gave me before. Something about how even if Mike takes care of me (which he does even now), to not let that blur the fact that we are still first and foremost, spouses. We are not "ill spouse" and "well spouse," we are simply spouses. To stay equal in the relationship and to continue to love and care for one another. I shared Mike that piece of wisdom you extended to me and he wholeheartedly agreed. That while the possibility for a "ill spouse / well spouse" dynamic is there (simply because I am ill and he is not), that he'd never let it get there. Because we are, as you said, first and foremost, spouses. Not patient and caregiver. So I wanted to thank you for that. Oh and Allie copied the offer for Mike to come to the well spouses forum and contact you if he feels the need. I also wish to thank you for that. I very much doubt he will, because he doesn't even come to the CF forum, but I did extend the offer to him (relating that you were the one with the intelligent advice), and he thanks you as well. <3
 

anonymous

New member
Hi Emily,
Sounds like you and Mike have a good thing going. Can't say I'm at all surprised, you're a fiesty one which is always good.
And I'm glad you're not counting on "dying young" cause according to my husband who was a bit surprised to find himself turn 36 (and surprised to be surprised), if he'd known he'd have lived that long he just might have made some different choices (hence divorce #1, I'm "guessing").
And one certainly doesn't want one's marriage to make it to death without an affair or divorce just because the "weller" spouse hasn't burned out because there hasn't been time for that to happen yet. Better to have each day be joyous enough for both spouses that the marriage is enhancing to both spouses and no one is even getting burned out.

But I state the obvious.

My best to you and Mike.
If he ever wants to "chat" he can either PM me at WellSpouse or email me. Allie has my email address.

Take care,
LisaV
 

anonymous

New member
Hi Emily,
Sounds like you and Mike have a good thing going. Can't say I'm at all surprised, you're a fiesty one which is always good.
And I'm glad you're not counting on "dying young" cause according to my husband who was a bit surprised to find himself turn 36 (and surprised to be surprised), if he'd known he'd have lived that long he just might have made some different choices (hence divorce #1, I'm "guessing").
And one certainly doesn't want one's marriage to make it to death without an affair or divorce just because the "weller" spouse hasn't burned out because there hasn't been time for that to happen yet. Better to have each day be joyous enough for both spouses that the marriage is enhancing to both spouses and no one is even getting burned out.

But I state the obvious.

My best to you and Mike.
If he ever wants to "chat" he can either PM me at WellSpouse or email me. Allie has my email address.

Take care,
LisaV
 

anonymous

New member
I personally know of several couples who have divorced because of CF, and being a victim of one divorce myself and also a 5yr. partnership break-up I have learned to choose very wisely. My 1st marriage of almost 20yrs. was frought with too many energy draining rows of lack of understanding my inability to cope when my CF would not allow me too. My 2nd long term relationship ended because he expected more from my body than I could ever give............ even when he had just bought me home from hospital!
I have been witness to other CF relationships to see a certain lack of intolerance and genuine patience and understanding of what we go through to know I would walk away again if I felt I was not truly loved.
Being in a relationship for your own comfort and security, being afraid you can't make it on your own, is a whole new issue.

Some partners can make us feel inadequate as we struggle to keep up, we don't need this. I have good and bad days like you all, but would never condone my 'darling' looking elsewhere for 'attention'.
Emily when you introduced this topic to our forum and am now updated with all the replies, I can honestly say I have no desire to check out the WS forum, it just leaves me with a sour taste in my mouth.

I can only add that those of us who believe in unconditional love may survive a long term partnership. Nothing in life is certain. Good luck to you all.
 

anonymous

New member
I personally know of several couples who have divorced because of CF, and being a victim of one divorce myself and also a 5yr. partnership break-up I have learned to choose very wisely. My 1st marriage of almost 20yrs. was frought with too many energy draining rows of lack of understanding my inability to cope when my CF would not allow me too. My 2nd long term relationship ended because he expected more from my body than I could ever give............ even when he had just bought me home from hospital!
I have been witness to other CF relationships to see a certain lack of intolerance and genuine patience and understanding of what we go through to know I would walk away again if I felt I was not truly loved.
Being in a relationship for your own comfort and security, being afraid you can't make it on your own, is a whole new issue.

Some partners can make us feel inadequate as we struggle to keep up, we don't need this. I have good and bad days like you all, but would never condone my 'darling' looking elsewhere for 'attention'.
Emily when you introduced this topic to our forum and am now updated with all the replies, I can honestly say I have no desire to check out the WS forum, it just leaves me with a sour taste in my mouth.

I can only add that those of us who believe in unconditional love may survive a long term partnership. Nothing in life is certain. Good luck to you all.
 

Wunderkin23

New member
I have gone through and read both the things written on LJ, this thread, and the thread entitled "Hijacked!".... and my head is GUSHING with thoughts.

First off, there is a VAST difference between this forum, the community on LJ, and that particular forum- which would be that both CF communities offer support to not only the person who has CF, but people who are dealing with someone who has CF. Their forum does NOT offer support to a person with the illness. If someone were to post a topic about cheating on a spouse because say, they only have so long to live having CF, and should get to "experience more in life".... I'm fairly certain that the other people who read and keep tabs on the forum would disagree, and would be quite vocal about it. I have not found, at least on LJ that there is a lot of what I would reffer to as "blind support". If someone says something that I disagree with, I have a right to say "I disagree!" just like they had the right to say it in the first place. I'm not going to condone an action that I find repulsive just because someone has come to me looking for "support". From what I read, I don't think Emily said that everyone on that forum was like that. I don't even think that she was so much upset by the topic, as much as the insensitivity with which it was delt with. I definately got the impression she was offended by what CERTAIN PEOPLE ON THE SITE said, not the enire forum. And I think quite a few people on the WS Forum ganged up on her.

But you know what, I was offended by some of those comments too. If someone was like, "I cheated on my sick spouse, and I feel terrible.... but I wanted to feel some physical affection". You know what? That would not offend me.... I don't agree with the action, but I would understand this person was dealing with some very serious feelings. But for someone with an illness to read something like "I cheated on my spouse, Yay go me!" OF COURSE I was offended. As I said on LJ, if my fiance cheated on me, he better start sleeping with one eye opened.... I don't care HOW sick I am. And I would think that as a forum for people dealing with ill relatives, they'd accept some opinions of people who are actually ill so they could also understand both sides. Part of my joining a forum or community like this is to see what spouses of CF'rs are posting or asking, so I can better understand what Matt is going through with me.

And to imply that having an illness your entire life makes you lucky, because your spouse has the chance right up front to jump ship.... that's just ridiculous.

Time and time again, I've read posts regarding how guilty a CF'er feels because they're sick and putting burdon on their partner or loved ones. I myself have wrestled with this time and time again. I don't think any person with an illness goes into a relationship thinking their partner should take care of them. Nobody goes into it thinking it isn't going to be difficult for the other person. For all the times I sent someone I was dating to the CF site to better explain my illness.... (And then was totally embarassed when they laughed at the part where it talks about "foul smelling and bulky stools").

The point is, I don't think anyone on a CF forum would post something that might be construed as offensive to a spouse of someone with CF. Yet it was okay to for someone on the WS Forum to post something that offended a person with an illness.... and then get MAD at that person for being offended and stating that they were offended. Forums are a place for the exchange of thoughts and ideas. Not everyone is going to agree all the time. Everyone get's all up in arms if someone disagrees on these sites, and I think it's silly. Sometimes it's GOOD to debate. Because then you get to hear the opposite side of things.

And yeah, I kind of jumped around with this response, because my thoughts are a bit scattered and everywhere on this particular topic. Needless to say, I don't think Emily was wrong to post in the WS Forum that she was offended. Just like I wouldn't mind if someone from the WS Forum told me they found ME offensive. But I don't think I'm being offensive. And I think it's stupid to ban someone and erase everything they said just because they disagreed.

I think that's it.... but I bet as soon as I hit "reply to topic" I'll think of five other things I wanted to say.... but you get the idea.
 

Wunderkin23

New member
I have gone through and read both the things written on LJ, this thread, and the thread entitled "Hijacked!".... and my head is GUSHING with thoughts.

First off, there is a VAST difference between this forum, the community on LJ, and that particular forum- which would be that both CF communities offer support to not only the person who has CF, but people who are dealing with someone who has CF. Their forum does NOT offer support to a person with the illness. If someone were to post a topic about cheating on a spouse because say, they only have so long to live having CF, and should get to "experience more in life".... I'm fairly certain that the other people who read and keep tabs on the forum would disagree, and would be quite vocal about it. I have not found, at least on LJ that there is a lot of what I would reffer to as "blind support". If someone says something that I disagree with, I have a right to say "I disagree!" just like they had the right to say it in the first place. I'm not going to condone an action that I find repulsive just because someone has come to me looking for "support". From what I read, I don't think Emily said that everyone on that forum was like that. I don't even think that she was so much upset by the topic, as much as the insensitivity with which it was delt with. I definately got the impression she was offended by what CERTAIN PEOPLE ON THE SITE said, not the enire forum. And I think quite a few people on the WS Forum ganged up on her.

But you know what, I was offended by some of those comments too. If someone was like, "I cheated on my sick spouse, and I feel terrible.... but I wanted to feel some physical affection". You know what? That would not offend me.... I don't agree with the action, but I would understand this person was dealing with some very serious feelings. But for someone with an illness to read something like "I cheated on my spouse, Yay go me!" OF COURSE I was offended. As I said on LJ, if my fiance cheated on me, he better start sleeping with one eye opened.... I don't care HOW sick I am. And I would think that as a forum for people dealing with ill relatives, they'd accept some opinions of people who are actually ill so they could also understand both sides. Part of my joining a forum or community like this is to see what spouses of CF'rs are posting or asking, so I can better understand what Matt is going through with me.

And to imply that having an illness your entire life makes you lucky, because your spouse has the chance right up front to jump ship.... that's just ridiculous.

Time and time again, I've read posts regarding how guilty a CF'er feels because they're sick and putting burdon on their partner or loved ones. I myself have wrestled with this time and time again. I don't think any person with an illness goes into a relationship thinking their partner should take care of them. Nobody goes into it thinking it isn't going to be difficult for the other person. For all the times I sent someone I was dating to the CF site to better explain my illness.... (And then was totally embarassed when they laughed at the part where it talks about "foul smelling and bulky stools").

The point is, I don't think anyone on a CF forum would post something that might be construed as offensive to a spouse of someone with CF. Yet it was okay to for someone on the WS Forum to post something that offended a person with an illness.... and then get MAD at that person for being offended and stating that they were offended. Forums are a place for the exchange of thoughts and ideas. Not everyone is going to agree all the time. Everyone get's all up in arms if someone disagrees on these sites, and I think it's silly. Sometimes it's GOOD to debate. Because then you get to hear the opposite side of things.

And yeah, I kind of jumped around with this response, because my thoughts are a bit scattered and everywhere on this particular topic. Needless to say, I don't think Emily was wrong to post in the WS Forum that she was offended. Just like I wouldn't mind if someone from the WS Forum told me they found ME offensive. But I don't think I'm being offensive. And I think it's stupid to ban someone and erase everything they said just because they disagreed.

I think that's it.... but I bet as soon as I hit "reply to topic" I'll think of five other things I wanted to say.... but you get the idea.
 

anonymous

New member
Wunderkin,
You see the difference between the two boards, but you're missing the point.
This board (as I understand it) is open to anyone who is impacted by CF (whether they are the ill person, parent, spouse, partner, sibling, boyfriend, etc.)
The WellSpouse board is open <i>only</i> to those people who are partners/spouses of someone who is ill or disabled -- the "weller" spouse. It is <i>not</i> open to the person with the illness or disability; it is <i>not</i> open to non-spousal/partner familiy members; it is <i>not</i> open to the general public.

It's sort of the difference between going to couples counseling or individual counseling.
If you are in couples counseling it is more like this board. You watch that you don't offend the other person.
If you are in individual counseling you get to let it all hang out. You don't have to worry about offending anyone. You get to express all of your feelings and thoughts (even your unattractive ones that might be hurtful to your spouse.) It is a place where it is "all about you" and your feelings, etc..

Both kinds of counseling are good (and frequently couples counselors won't see you unless you are also doing individual therapy.) Couples counseling is good for improving communication between spouses. Individual counseling is good for uncovering and resolving your own personal issues.

"Well" spouses turn to the Well spouse board for the same reason they turn to an individual counselor. They post from that viewpoint and they post thinking of the board as a safe place to share <i>any</i> feeling that they have - <i>especially</i> those feelings that might be hurtful to their spouse - because they love their spouse and they don't want to hurt them. But, truthfully, sometimes it can all get to be a bit much and we need a place to scream out loud and have it be all right before we go back home and are our kinder and gentler selves. The well spouse board is the <i>one</i> place where it is "all about us".

Anyone who not a well spouse/partner who goes to the wellspouse board is violating our space. We've made no exceptions. If they don't like what they read, well, that's their problem. If they post, their post will be deleted.

So, frankly, as nice as Emily is, she was out of line posting there. The name of the board makes it pretty clear who its for. If she had read any of the guidelines for the board she would have read that it was not for her.

Enough said.

I am glad to know about this board. I'll keep a link to it so if I have any questions related to CF I know where to discuss them (I have 2 nieces with CF). If anyone has any questions about being a spouse to someone with bronchiectasis (in general, not CF in particular), I'll be glad to discuss it.

As a fequent poster on the Well Spouse board I would be glad for any spouses/partners of those with CF would join us.
If you have CF, do yourself a favor and don't read the posts. We have not and will not be worrying about how they sound to you or any other ill spouse when we post.
 

anonymous

New member
Wunderkin,
You see the difference between the two boards, but you're missing the point.
This board (as I understand it) is open to anyone who is impacted by CF (whether they are the ill person, parent, spouse, partner, sibling, boyfriend, etc.)
The WellSpouse board is open <i>only</i> to those people who are partners/spouses of someone who is ill or disabled -- the "weller" spouse. It is <i>not</i> open to the person with the illness or disability; it is <i>not</i> open to non-spousal/partner familiy members; it is <i>not</i> open to the general public.

It's sort of the difference between going to couples counseling or individual counseling.
If you are in couples counseling it is more like this board. You watch that you don't offend the other person.
If you are in individual counseling you get to let it all hang out. You don't have to worry about offending anyone. You get to express all of your feelings and thoughts (even your unattractive ones that might be hurtful to your spouse.) It is a place where it is "all about you" and your feelings, etc..

Both kinds of counseling are good (and frequently couples counselors won't see you unless you are also doing individual therapy.) Couples counseling is good for improving communication between spouses. Individual counseling is good for uncovering and resolving your own personal issues.

"Well" spouses turn to the Well spouse board for the same reason they turn to an individual counselor. They post from that viewpoint and they post thinking of the board as a safe place to share <i>any</i> feeling that they have - <i>especially</i> those feelings that might be hurtful to their spouse - because they love their spouse and they don't want to hurt them. But, truthfully, sometimes it can all get to be a bit much and we need a place to scream out loud and have it be all right before we go back home and are our kinder and gentler selves. The well spouse board is the <i>one</i> place where it is "all about us".

Anyone who not a well spouse/partner who goes to the wellspouse board is violating our space. We've made no exceptions. If they don't like what they read, well, that's their problem. If they post, their post will be deleted.

So, frankly, as nice as Emily is, she was out of line posting there. The name of the board makes it pretty clear who its for. If she had read any of the guidelines for the board she would have read that it was not for her.

Enough said.

I am glad to know about this board. I'll keep a link to it so if I have any questions related to CF I know where to discuss them (I have 2 nieces with CF). If anyone has any questions about being a spouse to someone with bronchiectasis (in general, not CF in particular), I'll be glad to discuss it.

As a fequent poster on the Well Spouse board I would be glad for any spouses/partners of those with CF would join us.
If you have CF, do yourself a favor and don't read the posts. We have not and will not be worrying about how they sound to you or any other ill spouse when we post.
 

miesl

New member
Guess what - I wasn't exactly treated well when I posted on that thread... and I AM a well spouse.

I found the posts about affairs offensive.

I found the attitude on that board to be very disturbing - more than one poster made comments about how a) we were better off, because we knew about the illness - not even paying attention to WHAT CF is and b) how our opinions on affairs were less because we weren't going to be married to our spouses for that long. Most offensive is when this was posted to Allie.

As you can see... the well spouses here find the Well Spouse forum unwelcoming and hostile toward us.

No small wonder than we aren't going to find our santuary there.

-Michelle
 

miesl

New member
Guess what - I wasn't exactly treated well when I posted on that thread... and I AM a well spouse.

I found the posts about affairs offensive.

I found the attitude on that board to be very disturbing - more than one poster made comments about how a) we were better off, because we knew about the illness - not even paying attention to WHAT CF is and b) how our opinions on affairs were less because we weren't going to be married to our spouses for that long. Most offensive is when this was posted to Allie.

As you can see... the well spouses here find the Well Spouse forum unwelcoming and hostile toward us.

No small wonder than we aren't going to find our santuary there.

-Michelle
 

anonymous

New member
All I can contribute is that my husband knew I had cf when he married me.

He studied it, learned the truth, the possible future for me. Then he married me in sickness and health, committed to me.

I can only speak about living with CF, not other disablities. And most of us would acknowledge that when we got married our spouses knew full well we had CF. And what it was. They chose to enter into a marriage with us and what came with that.

My heart really goes out to you spouses that have to live with an un-functioning mate. I can't imagine the issues and pain it brings up.

But, marriage is marriage, adultery is adultery.

I think the wellspouse forum is a valuable tool for some people, and you do have to vent somewhere when you're in a diffucult situation.

But at least with CF...you're not going to have any lasting strong committment if there's well-spouse and sick-spouse. And you really have a problem with a lasting strong committment if you go outside the marriage for physical pleasure.

You get married for so many reasons. Sex is high up on the list, but certainly not number 1.

Christian
 

anonymous

New member
All I can contribute is that my husband knew I had cf when he married me.

He studied it, learned the truth, the possible future for me. Then he married me in sickness and health, committed to me.

I can only speak about living with CF, not other disablities. And most of us would acknowledge that when we got married our spouses knew full well we had CF. And what it was. They chose to enter into a marriage with us and what came with that.

My heart really goes out to you spouses that have to live with an un-functioning mate. I can't imagine the issues and pain it brings up.

But, marriage is marriage, adultery is adultery.

I think the wellspouse forum is a valuable tool for some people, and you do have to vent somewhere when you're in a diffucult situation.

But at least with CF...you're not going to have any lasting strong committment if there's well-spouse and sick-spouse. And you really have a problem with a lasting strong committment if you go outside the marriage for physical pleasure.

You get married for so many reasons. Sex is high up on the list, but certainly not number 1.

Christian
 

Emily65Roses

New member
In the end, it's mostly my fault any of it happened. One, for thinking those people (important note, I'm generalizing here) might actually care about what I said. Two, for thinking they'd be reasonable and not just jump up my butt about it. Three, because I didn't read the guidelines. I figured they were the same as anything else... don't swear, don't name call, don't be obscene or rude, blah blah etc. It never occurred to me that someone could be banned based solely on who they are.

Ah well. I like it much better here anyways. I love getting opinions of spouses and parents as well as other CFers, gives a wider view of things. I just hope that those people on the wellspouse forum are also talking with people on websites for their individual disabilities, so that they're not just sticking with one-sided opinions. That never makes sense. You're generally a much more well-rounded person if you have as many angles as possible to base your opinions on. But hell, they're not me, what do I care what they do. I just hope the spouses that are being outright abused or cheated on (in most cases) catch on and tell their partners in effect, to eff off.

Having said all that, I should apologize to my fellow CF forum-readers. It's my fault any of this happened in the first place, and I'm sorry to have brought it here given that I know it upset many people. It upset me too, I guess that's why I commented. I wanted to share it and gather opinions on it to see if I was overreacting. Talk about it, see what others thought, etc. But I'm sorry for those of you it upset.
<img src="i/expressions/rose.gif" border="0">
 

Emily65Roses

New member
In the end, it's mostly my fault any of it happened. One, for thinking those people (important note, I'm generalizing here) might actually care about what I said. Two, for thinking they'd be reasonable and not just jump up my butt about it. Three, because I didn't read the guidelines. I figured they were the same as anything else... don't swear, don't name call, don't be obscene or rude, blah blah etc. It never occurred to me that someone could be banned based solely on who they are.

Ah well. I like it much better here anyways. I love getting opinions of spouses and parents as well as other CFers, gives a wider view of things. I just hope that those people on the wellspouse forum are also talking with people on websites for their individual disabilities, so that they're not just sticking with one-sided opinions. That never makes sense. You're generally a much more well-rounded person if you have as many angles as possible to base your opinions on. But hell, they're not me, what do I care what they do. I just hope the spouses that are being outright abused or cheated on (in most cases) catch on and tell their partners in effect, to eff off.

Having said all that, I should apologize to my fellow CF forum-readers. It's my fault any of this happened in the first place, and I'm sorry to have brought it here given that I know it upset many people. It upset me too, I guess that's why I commented. I wanted to share it and gather opinions on it to see if I was overreacting. Talk about it, see what others thought, etc. But I'm sorry for those of you it upset.
<img src="i/expressions/rose.gif" border="0">
 
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