"SIKO"

[Wheezie]

"SIKO

Just curious - for those of you who believe Americans should take responsibility for their own health care costs, how many of you have insurance through your employer? Because if you're only paying a small deductible each month and small co-pays for prescriptions and dr. visits, then it could be argued that you're not really taking full responsibility for your health care at all; you're relying on your employer. In a truly free system, would your salary be enough to buy health insurance that was adequate to care for a person with CF?

Secondly, health insurance cannot be purchased by everyone in America as some have suggested in this thread. Sure, companies with over x number of employees are required by law to insure their employees, even those with CF or other pre-existing conditions. But that is if you are healthy enough to work, and work for a large enough company at that. In a truly free market, what would it be like for people with CF who were too sick to work but could only get insurance if they paid for it out of their own pockets? Could they even GET insured with a pre-existing condition? If they didn't have insurance, could they afford the multitude of prescriptions necessary? How could they afford to pay for any of this if they weren't able to work?

I'm all about personal responsibility - I just think some of the arguments presented along those lines are unrealistic when we're talking about caring for people Cystic Fibrosis. I chose to focus on CF as that is what this forum is primarily about. My comments don't even begin to address the multitude of other scenarios out there that are or could be affected by a lack of health insurance.

Like I said before, I'm not sure if "socialized medicine" is the answer, but I do believe the system needs to be reformed and I also believe that the "every man for himself" philosophy would be a step in the wrong direction.

 

[Wheezie]

"SIKO

Just curious - for those of you who believe Americans should take responsibility for their own health care costs, how many of you have insurance through your employer? Because if you're only paying a small deductible each month and small co-pays for prescriptions and dr. visits, then it could be argued that you're not really taking full responsibility for your health care at all; you're relying on your employer. In a truly free system, would your salary be enough to buy health insurance that was adequate to care for a person with CF?

Secondly, health insurance cannot be purchased by everyone in America as some have suggested in this thread. Sure, companies with over x number of employees are required by law to insure their employees, even those with CF or other pre-existing conditions. But that is if you are healthy enough to work, and work for a large enough company at that. In a truly free market, what would it be like for people with CF who were too sick to work but could only get insurance if they paid for it out of their own pockets? Could they even GET insured with a pre-existing condition? If they didn't have insurance, could they afford the multitude of prescriptions necessary? How could they afford to pay for any of this if they weren't able to work?

I'm all about personal responsibility - I just think some of the arguments presented along those lines are unrealistic when we're talking about caring for people Cystic Fibrosis. I chose to focus on CF as that is what this forum is primarily about. My comments don't even begin to address the multitude of other scenarios out there that are or could be affected by a lack of health insurance.

Like I said before, I'm not sure if "socialized medicine" is the answer, but I do believe the system needs to be reformed and I also believe that the "every man for himself" philosophy would be a step in the wrong direction.

 

[Wheezie]

"SIKO

Just curious - for those of you who believe Americans should take responsibility for their own health care costs, how many of you have insurance through your employer? Because if you're only paying a small deductible each month and small co-pays for prescriptions and dr. visits, then it could be argued that you're not really taking full responsibility for your health care at all; you're relying on your employer. In a truly free system, would your salary be enough to buy health insurance that was adequate to care for a person with CF?

Secondly, health insurance cannot be purchased by everyone in America as some have suggested in this thread. Sure, companies with over x number of employees are required by law to insure their employees, even those with CF or other pre-existing conditions. But that is if you are healthy enough to work, and work for a large enough company at that. In a truly free market, what would it be like for people with CF who were too sick to work but could only get insurance if they paid for it out of their own pockets? Could they even GET insured with a pre-existing condition? If they didn't have insurance, could they afford the multitude of prescriptions necessary? How could they afford to pay for any of this if they weren't able to work?

I'm all about personal responsibility - I just think some of the arguments presented along those lines are unrealistic when we're talking about caring for people Cystic Fibrosis. I chose to focus on CF as that is what this forum is primarily about. My comments don't even begin to address the multitude of other scenarios out there that are or could be affected by a lack of health insurance.

Like I said before, I'm not sure if "socialized medicine" is the answer, but I do believe the system needs to be reformed and I also believe that the "every man for himself" philosophy would be a step in the wrong direction.

 

[Wheezie]

"SIKO

Just curious - for those of you who believe Americans should take responsibility for their own health care costs, how many of you have insurance through your employer? Because if you're only paying a small deductible each month and small co-pays for prescriptions and dr. visits, then it could be argued that you're not really taking full responsibility for your health care at all; you're relying on your employer. In a truly free system, would your salary be enough to buy health insurance that was adequate to care for a person with CF?

Secondly, health insurance cannot be purchased by everyone in America as some have suggested in this thread. Sure, companies with over x number of employees are required by law to insure their employees, even those with CF or other pre-existing conditions. But that is if you are healthy enough to work, and work for a large enough company at that. In a truly free market, what would it be like for people with CF who were too sick to work but could only get insurance if they paid for it out of their own pockets? Could they even GET insured with a pre-existing condition? If they didn't have insurance, could they afford the multitude of prescriptions necessary? How could they afford to pay for any of this if they weren't able to work?

I'm all about personal responsibility - I just think some of the arguments presented along those lines are unrealistic when we're talking about caring for people Cystic Fibrosis. I chose to focus on CF as that is what this forum is primarily about. My comments don't even begin to address the multitude of other scenarios out there that are or could be affected by a lack of health insurance.

Like I said before, I'm not sure if "socialized medicine" is the answer, but I do believe the system needs to be reformed and I also believe that the "every man for himself" philosophy would be a step in the wrong direction.

 

[okok]

"SIKO

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>BigBee</b></i>

Scott & Jada, Loved your posts! Thanks.



I manage a medical clinic and see it across the board.



<u>An overwhelming sense of entitlement in our nation. </u>



We live in a great country which certainly allows you the choice to purchase a new car, go on trips, have an iphone, etc in lieu of purchasing health insurance or contributing to your employer sponsered retirement plan. But where oh where is the accountability for your actions?? I tell my 9 year old, life's about choices and you have to make them and live with them. I wish everyone else did.</end quote></div>

I disagree completely. Not everyone who can't afford health insurance can afford iphones and new cars. In fact, among the people i know who don't have health insurance, none of them are indulging in any of these luxeries. They are barely able to afford rent and food much less other things that i'm sure many of you consider necessities such as transportation costs (gas, bus fare, car insurance.)

maybe you are fortunate to live in a part of the country where the minimum wage is actually able to support a person but many people live in cities where working full time for 10 dollars an hour barely gives them enough money for groceries. I live in a city with the highest food costs in the entire state and one of the highest housing/ rent costs in the nation. I know people struggling just to pay their rent, working 40 hours a week and who get food from the food bank and don't qualify for medicaid or have enough extra money to afford health insurance.

Maybe your family spends extra income on iphones and car payments and can still afford health care. Maybe because of this you assume that the people who make less are just making bad choices and wasting their money but in my experience this is completely untrue. All the people i know without health insurance (and this is many people) don't even have the CHOICE of indulging in those luxeries much less the CHOICE of providing themselves with some things you most likely consider a neceesity like gas or car insurance or car repairs.

 

[okok]

"SIKO

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>BigBee</b></i>

Scott & Jada, Loved your posts! Thanks.



I manage a medical clinic and see it across the board.



<u>An overwhelming sense of entitlement in our nation. </u>



We live in a great country which certainly allows you the choice to purchase a new car, go on trips, have an iphone, etc in lieu of purchasing health insurance or contributing to your employer sponsered retirement plan. But where oh where is the accountability for your actions?? I tell my 9 year old, life's about choices and you have to make them and live with them. I wish everyone else did.</end quote></div>

I disagree completely. Not everyone who can't afford health insurance can afford iphones and new cars. In fact, among the people i know who don't have health insurance, none of them are indulging in any of these luxeries. They are barely able to afford rent and food much less other things that i'm sure many of you consider necessities such as transportation costs (gas, bus fare, car insurance.)

maybe you are fortunate to live in a part of the country where the minimum wage is actually able to support a person but many people live in cities where working full time for 10 dollars an hour barely gives them enough money for groceries. I live in a city with the highest food costs in the entire state and one of the highest housing/ rent costs in the nation. I know people struggling just to pay their rent, working 40 hours a week and who get food from the food bank and don't qualify for medicaid or have enough extra money to afford health insurance.

Maybe your family spends extra income on iphones and car payments and can still afford health care. Maybe because of this you assume that the people who make less are just making bad choices and wasting their money but in my experience this is completely untrue. All the people i know without health insurance (and this is many people) don't even have the CHOICE of indulging in those luxeries much less the CHOICE of providing themselves with some things you most likely consider a neceesity like gas or car insurance or car repairs.

 

[okok]

"SIKO

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>BigBee</b></i>

Scott & Jada, Loved your posts! Thanks.



I manage a medical clinic and see it across the board.



<u>An overwhelming sense of entitlement in our nation. </u>



We live in a great country which certainly allows you the choice to purchase a new car, go on trips, have an iphone, etc in lieu of purchasing health insurance or contributing to your employer sponsered retirement plan. But where oh where is the accountability for your actions?? I tell my 9 year old, life's about choices and you have to make them and live with them. I wish everyone else did.</end quote></div>

I disagree completely. Not everyone who can't afford health insurance can afford iphones and new cars. In fact, among the people i know who don't have health insurance, none of them are indulging in any of these luxeries. They are barely able to afford rent and food much less other things that i'm sure many of you consider necessities such as transportation costs (gas, bus fare, car insurance.)

maybe you are fortunate to live in a part of the country where the minimum wage is actually able to support a person but many people live in cities where working full time for 10 dollars an hour barely gives them enough money for groceries. I live in a city with the highest food costs in the entire state and one of the highest housing/ rent costs in the nation. I know people struggling just to pay their rent, working 40 hours a week and who get food from the food bank and don't qualify for medicaid or have enough extra money to afford health insurance.

Maybe your family spends extra income on iphones and car payments and can still afford health care. Maybe because of this you assume that the people who make less are just making bad choices and wasting their money but in my experience this is completely untrue. All the people i know without health insurance (and this is many people) don't even have the CHOICE of indulging in those luxeries much less the CHOICE of providing themselves with some things you most likely consider a neceesity like gas or car insurance or car repairs.

 

[okok]

"SIKO

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>BigBee</b></i>

Scott & Jada, Loved your posts! Thanks.



I manage a medical clinic and see it across the board.



<u>An overwhelming sense of entitlement in our nation. </u>



We live in a great country which certainly allows you the choice to purchase a new car, go on trips, have an iphone, etc in lieu of purchasing health insurance or contributing to your employer sponsered retirement plan. But where oh where is the accountability for your actions?? I tell my 9 year old, life's about choices and you have to make them and live with them. I wish everyone else did.</end quote></div>

I disagree completely. Not everyone who can't afford health insurance can afford iphones and new cars. In fact, among the people i know who don't have health insurance, none of them are indulging in any of these luxeries. They are barely able to afford rent and food much less other things that i'm sure many of you consider necessities such as transportation costs (gas, bus fare, car insurance.)

maybe you are fortunate to live in a part of the country where the minimum wage is actually able to support a person but many people live in cities where working full time for 10 dollars an hour barely gives them enough money for groceries. I live in a city with the highest food costs in the entire state and one of the highest housing/ rent costs in the nation. I know people struggling just to pay their rent, working 40 hours a week and who get food from the food bank and don't qualify for medicaid or have enough extra money to afford health insurance.

Maybe your family spends extra income on iphones and car payments and can still afford health care. Maybe because of this you assume that the people who make less are just making bad choices and wasting their money but in my experience this is completely untrue. All the people i know without health insurance (and this is many people) don't even have the CHOICE of indulging in those luxeries much less the CHOICE of providing themselves with some things you most likely consider a neceesity like gas or car insurance or car repairs.

 

[okok]

"SIKO

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>BigBee</b></i>

Scott & Jada, Loved your posts! Thanks.



I manage a medical clinic and see it across the board.



<u>An overwhelming sense of entitlement in our nation. </u>



We live in a great country which certainly allows you the choice to purchase a new car, go on trips, have an iphone, etc in lieu of purchasing health insurance or contributing to your employer sponsered retirement plan. But where oh where is the accountability for your actions?? I tell my 9 year old, life's about choices and you have to make them and live with them. I wish everyone else did.</end quote>

I disagree completely. Not everyone who can't afford health insurance can afford iphones and new cars. In fact, among the people i know who don't have health insurance, none of them are indulging in any of these luxeries. They are barely able to afford rent and food much less other things that i'm sure many of you consider necessities such as transportation costs (gas, bus fare, car insurance.)

maybe you are fortunate to live in a part of the country where the minimum wage is actually able to support a person but many people live in cities where working full time for 10 dollars an hour barely gives them enough money for groceries. I live in a city with the highest food costs in the entire state and one of the highest housing/ rent costs in the nation. I know people struggling just to pay their rent, working 40 hours a week and who get food from the food bank and don't qualify for medicaid or have enough extra money to afford health insurance.

Maybe your family spends extra income on iphones and car payments and can still afford health care. Maybe because of this you assume that the people who make less are just making bad choices and wasting their money but in my experience this is completely untrue. All the people i know without health insurance (and this is many people) don't even have the CHOICE of indulging in those luxeries much less the CHOICE of providing themselves with some things you most likely consider a neceesity like gas or car insurance or car repairs.

 

[okok]

"SIKO

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>BigBee</b></i>

Scott & Jada, Loved your posts! Thanks.



I manage a medical clinic and see it across the board.



<u>An overwhelming sense of entitlement in our nation. </u>



We live in a great country which certainly allows you the choice to purchase a new car, go on trips, have an iphone, etc in lieu of purchasing health insurance or contributing to your employer sponsered retirement plan. But where oh where is the accountability for your actions?? I tell my 9 year old, life's about choices and you have to make them and live with them. I wish everyone else did.</end quote>

I disagree completely. Not everyone who can't afford health insurance can afford iphones and new cars. In fact, among the people i know who don't have health insurance, none of them are indulging in any of these luxeries. They are barely able to afford rent and food much less other things that i'm sure many of you consider necessities such as transportation costs (gas, bus fare, car insurance.)

maybe you are fortunate to live in a part of the country where the minimum wage is actually able to support a person but many people live in cities where working full time for 10 dollars an hour barely gives them enough money for groceries. I live in a city with the highest food costs in the entire state and one of the highest housing/ rent costs in the nation. I know people struggling just to pay their rent, working 40 hours a week and who get food from the food bank and don't qualify for medicaid or have enough extra money to afford health insurance.

Maybe your family spends extra income on iphones and car payments and can still afford health care. Maybe because of this you assume that the people who make less are just making bad choices and wasting their money but in my experience this is completely untrue. All the people i know without health insurance (and this is many people) don't even have the CHOICE of indulging in those luxeries much less the CHOICE of providing themselves with some things you most likely consider a neceesity like gas or car insurance or car repairs.

 

[CFHockeyMom]

"SIKO

This is completely OT but just to clarify, minimum wage (and social security) were never intended for people to live off of. Of course, if you'd like to pay people $40k a year for doing unskilled/uneducated labor then I'd expect fees in those industries to go up as well which will in turn make a greater number of people unable to afford it. Vicious circle.

Also, I'd suggest you take a look around while driving through the inner cities some time. There are plenty of people driving $500 cars with $2000 rims, $1500 stereos and talking on their cell phones. I'm not too thrilled with the prospect of funding health care for them.

At the other end of the spectrum, my uncle who is self employed and makes a good living has opted to not pay for health insurance. So, last year when he needed a heart valve replacement and a pace maker, the VA (i.e. you and I) paid for it.

It does come down to choices. I choose to work for a company that pays for health benefits. I have that choice because I chose to go to college. My uncle chooses not to pay for benefits because he is self employed. My father who is also self employed chooses to pay for benefits. It's about choices.

I detest the entitlement mentality. I'm all for supporting people who need it and can't change their situation but I have little to no sympathy for people who refuse to better their situation and expect me to support them.

 

[CFHockeyMom]

"SIKO

This is completely OT but just to clarify, minimum wage (and social security) were never intended for people to live off of. Of course, if you'd like to pay people $40k a year for doing unskilled/uneducated labor then I'd expect fees in those industries to go up as well which will in turn make a greater number of people unable to afford it. Vicious circle.

Also, I'd suggest you take a look around while driving through the inner cities some time. There are plenty of people driving $500 cars with $2000 rims, $1500 stereos and talking on their cell phones. I'm not too thrilled with the prospect of funding health care for them.

At the other end of the spectrum, my uncle who is self employed and makes a good living has opted to not pay for health insurance. So, last year when he needed a heart valve replacement and a pace maker, the VA (i.e. you and I) paid for it.

It does come down to choices. I choose to work for a company that pays for health benefits. I have that choice because I chose to go to college. My uncle chooses not to pay for benefits because he is self employed. My father who is also self employed chooses to pay for benefits. It's about choices.

I detest the entitlement mentality. I'm all for supporting people who need it and can't change their situation but I have little to no sympathy for people who refuse to better their situation and expect me to support them.

 

[CFHockeyMom]

"SIKO

This is completely OT but just to clarify, minimum wage (and social security) were never intended for people to live off of. Of course, if you'd like to pay people $40k a year for doing unskilled/uneducated labor then I'd expect fees in those industries to go up as well which will in turn make a greater number of people unable to afford it. Vicious circle.

Also, I'd suggest you take a look around while driving through the inner cities some time. There are plenty of people driving $500 cars with $2000 rims, $1500 stereos and talking on their cell phones. I'm not too thrilled with the prospect of funding health care for them.

At the other end of the spectrum, my uncle who is self employed and makes a good living has opted to not pay for health insurance. So, last year when he needed a heart valve replacement and a pace maker, the VA (i.e. you and I) paid for it.

It does come down to choices. I choose to work for a company that pays for health benefits. I have that choice because I chose to go to college. My uncle chooses not to pay for benefits because he is self employed. My father who is also self employed chooses to pay for benefits. It's about choices.

I detest the entitlement mentality. I'm all for supporting people who need it and can't change their situation but I have little to no sympathy for people who refuse to better their situation and expect me to support them.

 

[CFHockeyMom]

"SIKO

This is completely OT but just to clarify, minimum wage (and social security) were never intended for people to live off of. Of course, if you'd like to pay people $40k a year for doing unskilled/uneducated labor then I'd expect fees in those industries to go up as well which will in turn make a greater number of people unable to afford it. Vicious circle.

Also, I'd suggest you take a look around while driving through the inner cities some time. There are plenty of people driving $500 cars with $2000 rims, $1500 stereos and talking on their cell phones. I'm not too thrilled with the prospect of funding health care for them.

At the other end of the spectrum, my uncle who is self employed and makes a good living has opted to not pay for health insurance. So, last year when he needed a heart valve replacement and a pace maker, the VA (i.e. you and I) paid for it.

It does come down to choices. I choose to work for a company that pays for health benefits. I have that choice because I chose to go to college. My uncle chooses not to pay for benefits because he is self employed. My father who is also self employed chooses to pay for benefits. It's about choices.

I detest the entitlement mentality. I'm all for supporting people who need it and can't change their situation but I have little to no sympathy for people who refuse to better their situation and expect me to support them.

 

[CFHockeyMom]

"SIKO

This is completely OT but just to clarify, minimum wage (and social security) were never intended for people to live off of. Of course, if you'd like to pay people $40k a year for doing unskilled/uneducated labor then I'd expect fees in those industries to go up as well which will in turn make a greater number of people unable to afford it. Vicious circle.

Also, I'd suggest you take a look around while driving through the inner cities some time. There are plenty of people driving $500 cars with $2000 rims, $1500 stereos and talking on their cell phones. I'm not too thrilled with the prospect of funding health care for them.

At the other end of the spectrum, my uncle who is self employed and makes a good living has opted to not pay for health insurance. So, last year when he needed a heart valve replacement and a pace maker, the VA (i.e. you and I) paid for it.

It does come down to choices. I choose to work for a company that pays for health benefits. I have that choice because I chose to go to college. My uncle chooses not to pay for benefits because he is self employed. My father who is also self employed chooses to pay for benefits. It's about choices.

I detest the entitlement mentality. I'm all for supporting people who need it and can't change their situation but I have little to no sympathy for people who refuse to better their situation and expect me to support them.

 

[CFHockeyMom]

"SIKO

This is completely OT but just to clarify, minimum wage (and social security) were never intended for people to live off of. Of course, if you'd like to pay people $40k a year for doing unskilled/uneducated labor then I'd expect fees in those industries to go up as well which will in turn make a greater number of people unable to afford it. Vicious circle.

Also, I'd suggest you take a look around while driving through the inner cities some time. There are plenty of people driving $500 cars with $2000 rims, $1500 stereos and talking on their cell phones. I'm not too thrilled with the prospect of funding health care for them.

At the other end of the spectrum, my uncle who is self employed and makes a good living has opted to not pay for health insurance. So, last year when he needed a heart valve replacement and a pace maker, the VA (i.e. you and I) paid for it.

It does come down to choices. I choose to work for a company that pays for health benefits. I have that choice because I chose to go to college. My uncle chooses not to pay for benefits because he is self employed. My father who is also self employed chooses to pay for benefits. It's about choices.

I detest the entitlement mentality. I'm all for supporting people who need it and can't change their situation but I have little to no sympathy for people who refuse to better their situation and expect me to support them.

 

[JazzysMom]

"SIKO

Claudette a/k/a CFHockeyMom...can you clarify something before I stick my foot in my mouth?

You speak of your Uncle who is self employed and chooses NOT to pay for health insurance and then used the VA for services. Do you not feel that he is "entitled" to this since he served in the military? OR do you think he should only (if even that) be entitled to free care from the VA for service related conditions?

I wonder because I know many elderly veterans who depend on their VA Benefits since they cant collect Medicare at all OR cant afford Medicare Part B premiums.

 

[JazzysMom]

"SIKO

Claudette a/k/a CFHockeyMom...can you clarify something before I stick my foot in my mouth?

You speak of your Uncle who is self employed and chooses NOT to pay for health insurance and then used the VA for services. Do you not feel that he is "entitled" to this since he served in the military? OR do you think he should only (if even that) be entitled to free care from the VA for service related conditions?

I wonder because I know many elderly veterans who depend on their VA Benefits since they cant collect Medicare at all OR cant afford Medicare Part B premiums.

 

[JazzysMom]

"SIKO

Claudette a/k/a CFHockeyMom...can you clarify something before I stick my foot in my mouth?

You speak of your Uncle who is self employed and chooses NOT to pay for health insurance and then used the VA for services. Do you not feel that he is "entitled" to this since he served in the military? OR do you think he should only (if even that) be entitled to free care from the VA for service related conditions?

I wonder because I know many elderly veterans who depend on their VA Benefits since they cant collect Medicare at all OR cant afford Medicare Part B premiums.

 

[JazzysMom]

"SIKO

Claudette a/k/a CFHockeyMom...can you clarify something before I stick my foot in my mouth?

You speak of your Uncle who is self employed and chooses NOT to pay for health insurance and then used the VA for services. Do you not feel that he is "entitled" to this since he served in the military? OR do you think he should only (if even that) be entitled to free care from the VA for service related conditions?

I wonder because I know many elderly veterans who depend on their VA Benefits since they cant collect Medicare at all OR cant afford Medicare Part B premiums.