"SIKO"

JazzysMom

New member
"SIKO

Claudette a/k/a CFHockeyMom...can you clarify something before I stick my foot in my mouth?

You speak of your Uncle who is self employed and chooses NOT to pay for health insurance and then used the VA for services. Do you not feel that he is "entitled" to this since he served in the military? OR do you think he should only (if even that) be entitled to free care from the VA for service related conditions?

I wonder because I know many elderly veterans who depend on their VA Benefits since they cant collect Medicare at all OR cant afford Medicare Part B premiums.
 

JazzysMom

New member
"SIKO

Claudette a/k/a CFHockeyMom...can you clarify something before I stick my foot in my mouth?

You speak of your Uncle who is self employed and chooses NOT to pay for health insurance and then used the VA for services. Do you not feel that he is "entitled" to this since he served in the military? OR do you think he should only (if even that) be entitled to free care from the VA for service related conditions?

I wonder because I know many elderly veterans who depend on their VA Benefits since they cant collect Medicare at all OR cant afford Medicare Part B premiums.
 

treehugger

New member
"SIKO

I think this thread reflects the polarization between political parties in the US right now and the difficulties in reaching the middle ground. Part of the problem is the difficulties in getting all the facts in order to make educated decisions and the other is the inability to look outside of our own situations. Perhaps that is human nature. I believe that we are all part of the human "family". I personally want to see and am willing to pay my fair share for everyone to have equal access to some standard of health care in the US. I pay alot for my own and I am willing to share. We are a generous nation are we not? One can't argue with the fact that many Americans can't afford insurance and we can come up with many reasons as to why they may not deserve health care, whether true or arising from misconceptions or stereotypes. But do those reasons really matter? The bottom line for me is I don't want to see people suffer.
 

treehugger

New member
"SIKO

I think this thread reflects the polarization between political parties in the US right now and the difficulties in reaching the middle ground. Part of the problem is the difficulties in getting all the facts in order to make educated decisions and the other is the inability to look outside of our own situations. Perhaps that is human nature. I believe that we are all part of the human "family". I personally want to see and am willing to pay my fair share for everyone to have equal access to some standard of health care in the US. I pay alot for my own and I am willing to share. We are a generous nation are we not? One can't argue with the fact that many Americans can't afford insurance and we can come up with many reasons as to why they may not deserve health care, whether true or arising from misconceptions or stereotypes. But do those reasons really matter? The bottom line for me is I don't want to see people suffer.
 

treehugger

New member
"SIKO

I think this thread reflects the polarization between political parties in the US right now and the difficulties in reaching the middle ground. Part of the problem is the difficulties in getting all the facts in order to make educated decisions and the other is the inability to look outside of our own situations. Perhaps that is human nature. I believe that we are all part of the human "family". I personally want to see and am willing to pay my fair share for everyone to have equal access to some standard of health care in the US. I pay alot for my own and I am willing to share. We are a generous nation are we not? One can't argue with the fact that many Americans can't afford insurance and we can come up with many reasons as to why they may not deserve health care, whether true or arising from misconceptions or stereotypes. But do those reasons really matter? The bottom line for me is I don't want to see people suffer.
 

treehugger

New member
"SIKO

I think this thread reflects the polarization between political parties in the US right now and the difficulties in reaching the middle ground. Part of the problem is the difficulties in getting all the facts in order to make educated decisions and the other is the inability to look outside of our own situations. Perhaps that is human nature. I believe that we are all part of the human "family". I personally want to see and am willing to pay my fair share for everyone to have equal access to some standard of health care in the US. I pay alot for my own and I am willing to share. We are a generous nation are we not? One can't argue with the fact that many Americans can't afford insurance and we can come up with many reasons as to why they may not deserve health care, whether true or arising from misconceptions or stereotypes. But do those reasons really matter? The bottom line for me is I don't want to see people suffer.
 

treehugger

New member
"SIKO

I think this thread reflects the polarization between political parties in the US right now and the difficulties in reaching the middle ground. Part of the problem is the difficulties in getting all the facts in order to make educated decisions and the other is the inability to look outside of our own situations. Perhaps that is human nature. I believe that we are all part of the human "family". I personally want to see and am willing to pay my fair share for everyone to have equal access to some standard of health care in the US. I pay alot for my own and I am willing to share. We are a generous nation are we not? One can't argue with the fact that many Americans can't afford insurance and we can come up with many reasons as to why they may not deserve health care, whether true or arising from misconceptions or stereotypes. But do those reasons really matter? The bottom line for me is I don't want to see people suffer.
 

treehugger

New member
"SIKO

I think this thread reflects the polarization between political parties in the US right now and the difficulties in reaching the middle ground. Part of the problem is the difficulties in getting all the facts in order to make educated decisions and the other is the inability to look outside of our own situations. Perhaps that is human nature. I believe that we are all part of the human "family". I personally want to see and am willing to pay my fair share for everyone to have equal access to some standard of health care in the US. I pay alot for my own and I am willing to share. We are a generous nation are we not? One can't argue with the fact that many Americans can't afford insurance and we can come up with many reasons as to why they may not deserve health care, whether true or arising from misconceptions or stereotypes. But do those reasons really matter? The bottom line for me is I don't want to see people suffer.
 

CFHockeyMom

New member
"SIKO

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>You speak of your Uncle who is self employed and chooses NOT to pay for health insurance and then used the VA for services. Do you not feel that he is "entitled" to this since he served in the military? OR do you think he should only (if even that) be entitled to free care from the VA for service related conditions? </end quote></div>

Note that my father is also a vet (served 4 years in the USAF) and does not receive VA benefits by choice.

I have no problem with VA benefits for veterans. I believe we need to support our veterans and owe them as much as possible for their service. I don't think they should necessarily be covered for everything forever. Just like I don't think our government officials are entitled to full health care benefits for their limited service. It's that kind of thinking that has crippled the American auto manufacturers. As pointed out in this thread VA benefits aren't all that great so, if someone has the opportunity to self insure they should do it and not rely on the govt. The problem I have with my uncle using VA benefits is that his condition was in no way related to his 6 months of service (no combat duty; honorable discharge for being the last male with the family name) and he had never previously signed up for VA benefits until this condition required surgery then he was in a panic for benefits. It's also worth noting that my uncle is in no way elderly nor eligible for Medicare.

? for you... I thought everyone over a certain age and below an established net worth qualified for Medicare. Is that not correct? What are the Medicare qualifications?
 

CFHockeyMom

New member
"SIKO

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>You speak of your Uncle who is self employed and chooses NOT to pay for health insurance and then used the VA for services. Do you not feel that he is "entitled" to this since he served in the military? OR do you think he should only (if even that) be entitled to free care from the VA for service related conditions? </end quote></div>

Note that my father is also a vet (served 4 years in the USAF) and does not receive VA benefits by choice.

I have no problem with VA benefits for veterans. I believe we need to support our veterans and owe them as much as possible for their service. I don't think they should necessarily be covered for everything forever. Just like I don't think our government officials are entitled to full health care benefits for their limited service. It's that kind of thinking that has crippled the American auto manufacturers. As pointed out in this thread VA benefits aren't all that great so, if someone has the opportunity to self insure they should do it and not rely on the govt. The problem I have with my uncle using VA benefits is that his condition was in no way related to his 6 months of service (no combat duty; honorable discharge for being the last male with the family name) and he had never previously signed up for VA benefits until this condition required surgery then he was in a panic for benefits. It's also worth noting that my uncle is in no way elderly nor eligible for Medicare.

? for you... I thought everyone over a certain age and below an established net worth qualified for Medicare. Is that not correct? What are the Medicare qualifications?
 

CFHockeyMom

New member
"SIKO

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>You speak of your Uncle who is self employed and chooses NOT to pay for health insurance and then used the VA for services. Do you not feel that he is "entitled" to this since he served in the military? OR do you think he should only (if even that) be entitled to free care from the VA for service related conditions? </end quote></div>

Note that my father is also a vet (served 4 years in the USAF) and does not receive VA benefits by choice.

I have no problem with VA benefits for veterans. I believe we need to support our veterans and owe them as much as possible for their service. I don't think they should necessarily be covered for everything forever. Just like I don't think our government officials are entitled to full health care benefits for their limited service. It's that kind of thinking that has crippled the American auto manufacturers. As pointed out in this thread VA benefits aren't all that great so, if someone has the opportunity to self insure they should do it and not rely on the govt. The problem I have with my uncle using VA benefits is that his condition was in no way related to his 6 months of service (no combat duty; honorable discharge for being the last male with the family name) and he had never previously signed up for VA benefits until this condition required surgery then he was in a panic for benefits. It's also worth noting that my uncle is in no way elderly nor eligible for Medicare.

? for you... I thought everyone over a certain age and below an established net worth qualified for Medicare. Is that not correct? What are the Medicare qualifications?
 

CFHockeyMom

New member
"SIKO

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>You speak of your Uncle who is self employed and chooses NOT to pay for health insurance and then used the VA for services. Do you not feel that he is "entitled" to this since he served in the military? OR do you think he should only (if even that) be entitled to free care from the VA for service related conditions? </end quote></div>

Note that my father is also a vet (served 4 years in the USAF) and does not receive VA benefits by choice.

I have no problem with VA benefits for veterans. I believe we need to support our veterans and owe them as much as possible for their service. I don't think they should necessarily be covered for everything forever. Just like I don't think our government officials are entitled to full health care benefits for their limited service. It's that kind of thinking that has crippled the American auto manufacturers. As pointed out in this thread VA benefits aren't all that great so, if someone has the opportunity to self insure they should do it and not rely on the govt. The problem I have with my uncle using VA benefits is that his condition was in no way related to his 6 months of service (no combat duty; honorable discharge for being the last male with the family name) and he had never previously signed up for VA benefits until this condition required surgery then he was in a panic for benefits. It's also worth noting that my uncle is in no way elderly nor eligible for Medicare.

? for you... I thought everyone over a certain age and below an established net worth qualified for Medicare. Is that not correct? What are the Medicare qualifications?
 

CFHockeyMom

New member
"SIKO

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>You speak of your Uncle who is self employed and chooses NOT to pay for health insurance and then used the VA for services. Do you not feel that he is "entitled" to this since he served in the military? OR do you think he should only (if even that) be entitled to free care from the VA for service related conditions? </end quote>

Note that my father is also a vet (served 4 years in the USAF) and does not receive VA benefits by choice.

I have no problem with VA benefits for veterans. I believe we need to support our veterans and owe them as much as possible for their service. I don't think they should necessarily be covered for everything forever. Just like I don't think our government officials are entitled to full health care benefits for their limited service. It's that kind of thinking that has crippled the American auto manufacturers. As pointed out in this thread VA benefits aren't all that great so, if someone has the opportunity to self insure they should do it and not rely on the govt. The problem I have with my uncle using VA benefits is that his condition was in no way related to his 6 months of service (no combat duty; honorable discharge for being the last male with the family name) and he had never previously signed up for VA benefits until this condition required surgery then he was in a panic for benefits. It's also worth noting that my uncle is in no way elderly nor eligible for Medicare.

? for you... I thought everyone over a certain age and below an established net worth qualified for Medicare. Is that not correct? What are the Medicare qualifications?
 

CFHockeyMom

New member
"SIKO

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>You speak of your Uncle who is self employed and chooses NOT to pay for health insurance and then used the VA for services. Do you not feel that he is "entitled" to this since he served in the military? OR do you think he should only (if even that) be entitled to free care from the VA for service related conditions? </end quote>

Note that my father is also a vet (served 4 years in the USAF) and does not receive VA benefits by choice.

I have no problem with VA benefits for veterans. I believe we need to support our veterans and owe them as much as possible for their service. I don't think they should necessarily be covered for everything forever. Just like I don't think our government officials are entitled to full health care benefits for their limited service. It's that kind of thinking that has crippled the American auto manufacturers. As pointed out in this thread VA benefits aren't all that great so, if someone has the opportunity to self insure they should do it and not rely on the govt. The problem I have with my uncle using VA benefits is that his condition was in no way related to his 6 months of service (no combat duty; honorable discharge for being the last male with the family name) and he had never previously signed up for VA benefits until this condition required surgery then he was in a panic for benefits. It's also worth noting that my uncle is in no way elderly nor eligible for Medicare.

? for you... I thought everyone over a certain age and below an established net worth qualified for Medicare. Is that not correct? What are the Medicare qualifications?
 

BigBee

New member
"SIKO

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>okok</b></i>

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>BigBee</b></i>



Scott & Jada, Loved your posts! Thanks.







I manage a medical clinic and see it across the board.







<u>An overwhelming sense of entitlement in our nation. </u>







We live in a great country which certainly allows you the choice to purchase a new car, go on trips, have an iphone, etc in lieu of purchasing health insurance or contributing to your employer sponsered retirement plan. But where oh where is the accountability for your actions?? I tell my 9 year old, life's about choices and you have to make them and live with them. I wish everyone else did.</end quote></div>



I disagree completely. Not everyone who can't afford health insurance can afford iphones and new cars. In fact, among the people i know who don't have health insurance, none of them are indulging in any of these luxeries. They are barely able to afford rent and food much less other things that i'm sure many of you consider necessities such as transportation costs (gas, bus fare, car insurance.)



maybe you are fortunate to live in a part of the country where the minimum wage is actually able to support a person but many people live in cities where working full time for 10 dollars an hour barely gives them enough money for groceries. I live in a city with the highest food costs in the entire state and one of the highest housing/ rent costs in the nation. I know people struggling just to pay their rent, working 40 hours a week and who get food from the food bank and don't qualify for medicaid or have enough extra money to afford health insurance.



Maybe your family spends extra income on iphones and car payments and can still afford health care. Maybe because of this you assume that the people who make less are just making bad choices and wasting their money but in my experience this is completely untrue. All the people i know without health insurance (and this is many people) don't even have the CHOICE of indulging in those luxeries much less the CHOICE of providing themselves with some things you most likely consider a neceesity like gas or car insurance or car repairs.</end quote></div>



You can disagree, but it's true that it is what I see. I never said or meant to imply that this applies to everyone. But I can tell you, I see it and I see it every single day - across all socioeconomic situations. I reread my post and it does say that our country allows people to make these choices. As you pointed out, there are people that don't have the choice. I was referring to those that do.

My point, although perhaps not well made, is that I truly believe the healthcare crisis in our country cannot be addressed without taking into account the effect of entitlement that pervades our society today. I have no easy answer for it, there isn't one. I do believe though, that a major re-education and shift in thinking will have to happen before any type of reform has a chance.

My father was a self employed farmer. We paid for major medical insurance out of pocket with no help from an employer and then bore most of the costs of our healthcare utilization. Making judgements or "maybes" about my background to negate what I see and say isn't necessary. My brother is uninsured due to cost of health insurance, (and has huge medical debt) so I'm really not so out of touch with reality. Every day I help people who don't have insurance to find ways to get their meds or the healthcare they need. I am in the middle of the healthcare crisis every day of my life.

In summary, I do stand by my statement that there is an overwhelming sense of entitlement in our country - and it makes changes in social security, health care and the like very difficult.
 

BigBee

New member
"SIKO

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>okok</b></i>

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>BigBee</b></i>



Scott & Jada, Loved your posts! Thanks.







I manage a medical clinic and see it across the board.







<u>An overwhelming sense of entitlement in our nation. </u>







We live in a great country which certainly allows you the choice to purchase a new car, go on trips, have an iphone, etc in lieu of purchasing health insurance or contributing to your employer sponsered retirement plan. But where oh where is the accountability for your actions?? I tell my 9 year old, life's about choices and you have to make them and live with them. I wish everyone else did.</end quote></div>



I disagree completely. Not everyone who can't afford health insurance can afford iphones and new cars. In fact, among the people i know who don't have health insurance, none of them are indulging in any of these luxeries. They are barely able to afford rent and food much less other things that i'm sure many of you consider necessities such as transportation costs (gas, bus fare, car insurance.)



maybe you are fortunate to live in a part of the country where the minimum wage is actually able to support a person but many people live in cities where working full time for 10 dollars an hour barely gives them enough money for groceries. I live in a city with the highest food costs in the entire state and one of the highest housing/ rent costs in the nation. I know people struggling just to pay their rent, working 40 hours a week and who get food from the food bank and don't qualify for medicaid or have enough extra money to afford health insurance.



Maybe your family spends extra income on iphones and car payments and can still afford health care. Maybe because of this you assume that the people who make less are just making bad choices and wasting their money but in my experience this is completely untrue. All the people i know without health insurance (and this is many people) don't even have the CHOICE of indulging in those luxeries much less the CHOICE of providing themselves with some things you most likely consider a neceesity like gas or car insurance or car repairs.</end quote></div>



You can disagree, but it's true that it is what I see. I never said or meant to imply that this applies to everyone. But I can tell you, I see it and I see it every single day - across all socioeconomic situations. I reread my post and it does say that our country allows people to make these choices. As you pointed out, there are people that don't have the choice. I was referring to those that do.

My point, although perhaps not well made, is that I truly believe the healthcare crisis in our country cannot be addressed without taking into account the effect of entitlement that pervades our society today. I have no easy answer for it, there isn't one. I do believe though, that a major re-education and shift in thinking will have to happen before any type of reform has a chance.

My father was a self employed farmer. We paid for major medical insurance out of pocket with no help from an employer and then bore most of the costs of our healthcare utilization. Making judgements or "maybes" about my background to negate what I see and say isn't necessary. My brother is uninsured due to cost of health insurance, (and has huge medical debt) so I'm really not so out of touch with reality. Every day I help people who don't have insurance to find ways to get their meds or the healthcare they need. I am in the middle of the healthcare crisis every day of my life.

In summary, I do stand by my statement that there is an overwhelming sense of entitlement in our country - and it makes changes in social security, health care and the like very difficult.
 

BigBee

New member
"SIKO

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>okok</b></i>

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>BigBee</b></i>



Scott & Jada, Loved your posts! Thanks.







I manage a medical clinic and see it across the board.







<u>An overwhelming sense of entitlement in our nation. </u>







We live in a great country which certainly allows you the choice to purchase a new car, go on trips, have an iphone, etc in lieu of purchasing health insurance or contributing to your employer sponsered retirement plan. But where oh where is the accountability for your actions?? I tell my 9 year old, life's about choices and you have to make them and live with them. I wish everyone else did.</end quote></div>



I disagree completely. Not everyone who can't afford health insurance can afford iphones and new cars. In fact, among the people i know who don't have health insurance, none of them are indulging in any of these luxeries. They are barely able to afford rent and food much less other things that i'm sure many of you consider necessities such as transportation costs (gas, bus fare, car insurance.)



maybe you are fortunate to live in a part of the country where the minimum wage is actually able to support a person but many people live in cities where working full time for 10 dollars an hour barely gives them enough money for groceries. I live in a city with the highest food costs in the entire state and one of the highest housing/ rent costs in the nation. I know people struggling just to pay their rent, working 40 hours a week and who get food from the food bank and don't qualify for medicaid or have enough extra money to afford health insurance.



Maybe your family spends extra income on iphones and car payments and can still afford health care. Maybe because of this you assume that the people who make less are just making bad choices and wasting their money but in my experience this is completely untrue. All the people i know without health insurance (and this is many people) don't even have the CHOICE of indulging in those luxeries much less the CHOICE of providing themselves with some things you most likely consider a neceesity like gas or car insurance or car repairs.</end quote></div>



You can disagree, but it's true that it is what I see. I never said or meant to imply that this applies to everyone. But I can tell you, I see it and I see it every single day - across all socioeconomic situations. I reread my post and it does say that our country allows people to make these choices. As you pointed out, there are people that don't have the choice. I was referring to those that do.

My point, although perhaps not well made, is that I truly believe the healthcare crisis in our country cannot be addressed without taking into account the effect of entitlement that pervades our society today. I have no easy answer for it, there isn't one. I do believe though, that a major re-education and shift in thinking will have to happen before any type of reform has a chance.

My father was a self employed farmer. We paid for major medical insurance out of pocket with no help from an employer and then bore most of the costs of our healthcare utilization. Making judgements or "maybes" about my background to negate what I see and say isn't necessary. My brother is uninsured due to cost of health insurance, (and has huge medical debt) so I'm really not so out of touch with reality. Every day I help people who don't have insurance to find ways to get their meds or the healthcare they need. I am in the middle of the healthcare crisis every day of my life.

In summary, I do stand by my statement that there is an overwhelming sense of entitlement in our country - and it makes changes in social security, health care and the like very difficult.
 

BigBee

New member
"SIKO

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>okok</b></i>

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>BigBee</b></i>



Scott & Jada, Loved your posts! Thanks.







I manage a medical clinic and see it across the board.







<u>An overwhelming sense of entitlement in our nation. </u>







We live in a great country which certainly allows you the choice to purchase a new car, go on trips, have an iphone, etc in lieu of purchasing health insurance or contributing to your employer sponsered retirement plan. But where oh where is the accountability for your actions?? I tell my 9 year old, life's about choices and you have to make them and live with them. I wish everyone else did.</end quote></div>



I disagree completely. Not everyone who can't afford health insurance can afford iphones and new cars. In fact, among the people i know who don't have health insurance, none of them are indulging in any of these luxeries. They are barely able to afford rent and food much less other things that i'm sure many of you consider necessities such as transportation costs (gas, bus fare, car insurance.)



maybe you are fortunate to live in a part of the country where the minimum wage is actually able to support a person but many people live in cities where working full time for 10 dollars an hour barely gives them enough money for groceries. I live in a city with the highest food costs in the entire state and one of the highest housing/ rent costs in the nation. I know people struggling just to pay their rent, working 40 hours a week and who get food from the food bank and don't qualify for medicaid or have enough extra money to afford health insurance.



Maybe your family spends extra income on iphones and car payments and can still afford health care. Maybe because of this you assume that the people who make less are just making bad choices and wasting their money but in my experience this is completely untrue. All the people i know without health insurance (and this is many people) don't even have the CHOICE of indulging in those luxeries much less the CHOICE of providing themselves with some things you most likely consider a neceesity like gas or car insurance or car repairs.</end quote></div>



You can disagree, but it's true that it is what I see. I never said or meant to imply that this applies to everyone. But I can tell you, I see it and I see it every single day - across all socioeconomic situations. I reread my post and it does say that our country allows people to make these choices. As you pointed out, there are people that don't have the choice. I was referring to those that do.

My point, although perhaps not well made, is that I truly believe the healthcare crisis in our country cannot be addressed without taking into account the effect of entitlement that pervades our society today. I have no easy answer for it, there isn't one. I do believe though, that a major re-education and shift in thinking will have to happen before any type of reform has a chance.

My father was a self employed farmer. We paid for major medical insurance out of pocket with no help from an employer and then bore most of the costs of our healthcare utilization. Making judgements or "maybes" about my background to negate what I see and say isn't necessary. My brother is uninsured due to cost of health insurance, (and has huge medical debt) so I'm really not so out of touch with reality. Every day I help people who don't have insurance to find ways to get their meds or the healthcare they need. I am in the middle of the healthcare crisis every day of my life.

In summary, I do stand by my statement that there is an overwhelming sense of entitlement in our country - and it makes changes in social security, health care and the like very difficult.
 

BigBee

New member
"SIKO

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>okok</b></i>

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>BigBee</b></i>



Scott & Jada, Loved your posts! Thanks.







I manage a medical clinic and see it across the board.







<u>An overwhelming sense of entitlement in our nation. </u>







We live in a great country which certainly allows you the choice to purchase a new car, go on trips, have an iphone, etc in lieu of purchasing health insurance or contributing to your employer sponsered retirement plan. But where oh where is the accountability for your actions?? I tell my 9 year old, life's about choices and you have to make them and live with them. I wish everyone else did.</end quote>



I disagree completely. Not everyone who can't afford health insurance can afford iphones and new cars. In fact, among the people i know who don't have health insurance, none of them are indulging in any of these luxeries. They are barely able to afford rent and food much less other things that i'm sure many of you consider necessities such as transportation costs (gas, bus fare, car insurance.)



maybe you are fortunate to live in a part of the country where the minimum wage is actually able to support a person but many people live in cities where working full time for 10 dollars an hour barely gives them enough money for groceries. I live in a city with the highest food costs in the entire state and one of the highest housing/ rent costs in the nation. I know people struggling just to pay their rent, working 40 hours a week and who get food from the food bank and don't qualify for medicaid or have enough extra money to afford health insurance.



Maybe your family spends extra income on iphones and car payments and can still afford health care. Maybe because of this you assume that the people who make less are just making bad choices and wasting their money but in my experience this is completely untrue. All the people i know without health insurance (and this is many people) don't even have the CHOICE of indulging in those luxeries much less the CHOICE of providing themselves with some things you most likely consider a neceesity like gas or car insurance or car repairs.</end quote>



You can disagree, but it's true that it is what I see. I never said or meant to imply that this applies to everyone. But I can tell you, I see it and I see it every single day - across all socioeconomic situations. I reread my post and it does say that our country allows people to make these choices. As you pointed out, there are people that don't have the choice. I was referring to those that do.

My point, although perhaps not well made, is that I truly believe the healthcare crisis in our country cannot be addressed without taking into account the effect of entitlement that pervades our society today. I have no easy answer for it, there isn't one. I do believe though, that a major re-education and shift in thinking will have to happen before any type of reform has a chance.

My father was a self employed farmer. We paid for major medical insurance out of pocket with no help from an employer and then bore most of the costs of our healthcare utilization. Making judgements or "maybes" about my background to negate what I see and say isn't necessary. My brother is uninsured due to cost of health insurance, (and has huge medical debt) so I'm really not so out of touch with reality. Every day I help people who don't have insurance to find ways to get their meds or the healthcare they need. I am in the middle of the healthcare crisis every day of my life.

In summary, I do stand by my statement that there is an overwhelming sense of entitlement in our country - and it makes changes in social security, health care and the like very difficult.
 

BigBee

New member
"SIKO

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>okok</b></i>

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote><i>Originally posted by: <b>BigBee</b></i>



Scott & Jada, Loved your posts! Thanks.







I manage a medical clinic and see it across the board.







<u>An overwhelming sense of entitlement in our nation. </u>







We live in a great country which certainly allows you the choice to purchase a new car, go on trips, have an iphone, etc in lieu of purchasing health insurance or contributing to your employer sponsered retirement plan. But where oh where is the accountability for your actions?? I tell my 9 year old, life's about choices and you have to make them and live with them. I wish everyone else did.</end quote>



I disagree completely. Not everyone who can't afford health insurance can afford iphones and new cars. In fact, among the people i know who don't have health insurance, none of them are indulging in any of these luxeries. They are barely able to afford rent and food much less other things that i'm sure many of you consider necessities such as transportation costs (gas, bus fare, car insurance.)



maybe you are fortunate to live in a part of the country where the minimum wage is actually able to support a person but many people live in cities where working full time for 10 dollars an hour barely gives them enough money for groceries. I live in a city with the highest food costs in the entire state and one of the highest housing/ rent costs in the nation. I know people struggling just to pay their rent, working 40 hours a week and who get food from the food bank and don't qualify for medicaid or have enough extra money to afford health insurance.



Maybe your family spends extra income on iphones and car payments and can still afford health care. Maybe because of this you assume that the people who make less are just making bad choices and wasting their money but in my experience this is completely untrue. All the people i know without health insurance (and this is many people) don't even have the CHOICE of indulging in those luxeries much less the CHOICE of providing themselves with some things you most likely consider a neceesity like gas or car insurance or car repairs.</end quote>



You can disagree, but it's true that it is what I see. I never said or meant to imply that this applies to everyone. But I can tell you, I see it and I see it every single day - across all socioeconomic situations. I reread my post and it does say that our country allows people to make these choices. As you pointed out, there are people that don't have the choice. I was referring to those that do.

My point, although perhaps not well made, is that I truly believe the healthcare crisis in our country cannot be addressed without taking into account the effect of entitlement that pervades our society today. I have no easy answer for it, there isn't one. I do believe though, that a major re-education and shift in thinking will have to happen before any type of reform has a chance.

My father was a self employed farmer. We paid for major medical insurance out of pocket with no help from an employer and then bore most of the costs of our healthcare utilization. Making judgements or "maybes" about my background to negate what I see and say isn't necessary. My brother is uninsured due to cost of health insurance, (and has huge medical debt) so I'm really not so out of touch with reality. Every day I help people who don't have insurance to find ways to get their meds or the healthcare they need. I am in the middle of the healthcare crisis every day of my life.

In summary, I do stand by my statement that there is an overwhelming sense of entitlement in our country - and it makes changes in social security, health care and the like very difficult.
 
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